Gas check makers

[redneck1]

I've been saving to buy a small CNC lathe to go with my mill for awhile now .
I hadn't planned on buying anything till around the end of the year .
But I keep seeing all these threads about check makers .

So ... If there is enough interest I could speed my plans up a bit .
But it wouldn't be over night , more like two months to have the funds and another month after that to get up to speed with it .

With that said I don't want to get anyone's hopes up or make any promises or have any promises made to me .

But if you guys can agree on a design and a single caliber to start with
I could make a decision on if its something the machine I am looking to buy is capable of doing or not .

So if you guys realy want a check maker , get together and come up with a design .
Simpler is always better of course . and have some very realistic expectations on dimensional accuracy , I know we always hear the braggarts bragging on working within .00000005
But I am not that good .
This is the real world and I won't be working in a climate controlled shop on a $500,000 machine .
Parts within .002 is a realistic expectation

So yea , come to consensus on a design and single caliber and we can go from there .

[Rick459]

you can use this as a guide....

http://sebagosales.com/gaschex/Check-Maker1&2.pdf

[Rcmaveric]

Dont open a can of worms. We will use and abuse you.

Its hard to make a profit off of it. A few have ventured into. We will over whelm you and your going to have to charge about 120+ bucks each to just break even.

There is another design a round that works well also. Its the two part design.

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[redneck1]

Well that's a good point , but there's a few key things that work in my favor
First is I'm well aware they won't be cheap , I know a whole lot of guys out there think everything should cost $29.99.
But I'm pretty tone deaf :)

Second and this a big one , I'm not looking to do this full scale to be overwhelmed or abused .
I actually won't even need to be profitable in the sense that what I'd be looking to do is simply generate some minor revenue from the machine
To make up for buying it well ahead of schedule .

And lastly ... Quite simply I want a CNC lathe , if it didn't work out it wouldn't be a catastrophe or a big deal , just a minor annoyance.

But I can't just start making pat Marlin's tools ....
And the simplest way to give people what they want is for them to tell me what they want and adjust from there .

[Idz]

I assume you've read through:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200965-Easy-to-build-gas-checkmaker

several people were looking for somebody to build them a checkmaker.

[Rcmaveric]

Pat sold his business if I remember correctly.

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[rick benjamin]

He's up and running https://patmarlins.com/
I ordered a gas check maker from him yesterday.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Back in November, there is a fella on the "Book of Faces" that started selling GC makers for $60 each. They are designed with threads for reloading presses and can make a GC in a single stroke like the FreeChex. Now he did have a price increase on Jan 1st...I don't know his new price? I think you gotta call for that. I'm not sure how he makes any money???? at $60 ...but what's worse is when the check maker die doesn't make the appropriate size GC, or maybe makes one that's too tall...Then making it right, or making a different check maker die...that really eats into the profit.

There is at least one member here who has bought one, and had a issue, but the fella did make it right, by making another die.

[AndyC]

From what I've seen, most of the wait-times right now for a check-maker are at 90 days or so.

The price isn't as big a deal (to me personally) but I'm not waiting 3 months - I'm not an impatient, "gotta-have-in-3-days" guy but that's the only thing that has stopped me from ordering one from those guys.

[MrWolf]

He's up and running https://patmarlins.com/
I ordered a gas check maker from him yesterday.

Pat is only accepting checks or money orders? Am I reading that right?

[dimaprok]

Hey guys, not trying to put anyone down or promote but one step design like above by Idz is just so much faster! I just don't see a reason to make the gc making process even longer than necessary.

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[Retumbo]

hey guys, not trying to put anyone down or promote but one step design like above by idz is just so much faster! I just don't see a reason to make the gc making process even longer than necessary.

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Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I recently ordered a one stroke check maker. Supposed to use aluminum gutter flashing. But when I started looking at that material I found that it is only .009" thick. The shank on a typical .44 cal gc boolit is .400". So .009" x 2 = .018" + .400" = .418". I size to .431" so these would leave me at least .013" short on fit. Does this make sense? And it's not like the check die can handle a wide range of material thickness. Is it possible that the forming process flows material from the top edge of the check onto the sides? I think I will call them and see what they say.

[longbow]

Not sure where you are getting the thin gutter material but my old gutters I replaced are close to 0.019" thick. The cups actually extrude when I make checks so they are deeper than normal. My check maker was sized to suit 0.014" IIRC which seems to be a common thickness for checks.

In fact I figured the thick material was probably a bit much for a loading press mounted check maker so chose to make the Ed Smith version and use a mallet to punch checks. An arbor press would be better but this works for me.

Longbow

[dimaprok]

I recently ordered a one stroke check maker. Supposed to use aluminum gutter flashing. But when I started looking at that material I found that it is only .009" thick. The shank on a typical .44 cal gc boolit is .400". So .009" x 2 = .018" + .400" = .418". I size to .431" so these would leave me at least .013" short on fit. Does this make sense? And it's not like the check die can handle a wide range of material thickness. Is it possible that the forming process flows material from the top edge of the check onto the sides? I think I will call them and see what they say.

Yes, that is possible as Longbow described it, it will stretch the material and make it longer but first thing first is did you actually measure you gutter aluminum? I am curious what it looks like because I have no idea. It's quite easy to modify gas check tool to accept the thicker material without stretching, but then you'll run into other problems where your new "fat" gas checks will deform during sizing and in fact I can't even imagine .019" going on 30 cal, I had real difficulty with Sages .017" although they worked real well for old Ideal or Lyman bullet. A lubrisizer here will work better than push through die but you will leave a nice mark in the nose of the bullet unless its really good fitting nose punch.

[Retumbo]

I have no issue with the .014 and my home made check maker. This is what I use.

US version is called Amerimax

I had to get Lowes contractor desk to order it in the STANDARD size for me


https://i.imgur.com/sxvpZhV.png

[longbow]

dimaprok:

Just to be clearer (maybe)... my old gutter material is thick but the gas check maker sizing/clearances was I think for "standard" 0.014" aluminum so when I form the checks the sides become thinner and deeper due to the extra thick material. It isn't a gas check that is 0.019" thick on the sides, just the bottom. The sides get thinned in forming to whatever the 0.014" would be which I am guessing remains 0.014" or close.

Make sense?

I haven't actually tried thinner material because I have a whack of old gutters and that works fine for me. Finished checks snap onto my NOE 316299 shanks and go through a 0.315" sizer just fine.

The deeper cup fits fine on the 316299 but just barely on my NOE 0.314" x 129 gr. which has a somewhat shorter shank. Any shorter shank length and they'd be too deep.

Oh! Forgot I just made a .44 check maker too and the same material just fits the Lee/RanchDog 265 gr. shank.

My point being that if you have the OOMPH you can use thicker material and it gets thinned and extrudes during forming. I use a mallet to punch the disks and form. It takes a pretty good wallop! But works. Not sure a loading press would do that.

Longbow

[tomme boy]

0.014" amermax flashing is what I am using for my bullets in my 350 Legend. The role I have is measuring 0.013" but 5hat is fine.

The guy on Facebook is who made mine. It had to go back as it was making checks 2X the height they should be. I gave him some changes and they are good now.

[dimaprok]

dimaprok:

Just to be clearer (maybe)... my old gutter material is thick but the gas check maker sizing/clearances was I think for "standard" 0.014" aluminum so when I form the checks the sides become thinner and deeper due to the extra thick material. It isn't a gas check that is 0.019" thick on the sides, just the bottom. The sides get thinned in forming to whatever the 0.014" would be which I am guessing remains 0.014" or close.

Make sense?

I haven't actually tried thinner material because I have a whack of old gutters and that works fine for me. Finished checks snap onto my NOE 316299 shanks and go through a 0.315" sizer just fine.

The deeper cup fits fine on the 316299 but just barely on my NOE 0.314" x 129 gr. which has a somewhat shorter shank. Any shorter shank length and they'd be too deep.

Oh! Forgot I just made a .44 check maker too and the same material just fits the Lee/RanchDog 265 gr. shank.

My point being that if you have the OOMPH you can use thicker material and it gets thinned and extrudes during forming. I use a mallet to punch the disks and form. It takes a pretty good wallop! But works. Not sure a loading press would do that.

Longbow

Are you using 2 step process? Because I am familiar with what you're saying, but aside from walls getting stretched the gas checks end up getting stuck on forming pin on IDZ design I use for GC makers. Than you have to disassemble the forming pin and remove the GC with pliers being careful not to damage the pin. This process is time consuming and annoying when that happens so you must be using a different design as I cannot picture anyone not losing their sanity trying to do this each and every time to make gas checks.

Yes NOE is notoriously for having too short of the shanks but my gas checks sit real well on them, also on MP 311410, I bring this up because someone was saying they had most trouble with MP bullets but found this bullet to seat muy gas checks perfectly.

I can see this .019" working well for 44 mag as it requires .016" minimum thickness to be seated well.

[longbow]

I'm using a single stroke check maker of Ed Smith design and dimensions.

I had trouble with the first two gas check makers I built with checks sticking on the forming pin. First check maker was a two stage based on the old Freechex design, second was the Ed Smith design.

Putting a very slight taper on the forming pin and polishing it solved that. Also, wiping a thin coat of oil on both sides of the aluminum strip helps too.

Third check maker I just made sure to put a slight taper on the forming pin and polished it. Oil the strip and no problems.

If a gas check does stick it is easy to pull the forming pin out to remove it but usually another whack pops it off. I don't get many stickers now with polished pins.

Longbow

[slide]

That is what I was running into with that check maker I ordered. Man, what a mess. I have sent it back and the dude said he was going to weld the forming pin in. From what you guys are saying if the checks continue to stick on the forming pin it will be impossible to get them off. I got a feeling my money has been wasted.

[lksmith]

Back in November, there is a fella on the "Book of Faces" that started selling GC makers for $60 each. They are designed with threads for reloading presses and can make a GC in a single stroke like the FreeChex. Now he did have a price increase on Jan 1st...I don't know his new price? I think you gotta call for that. I'm not sure how he makes any money???? at $60 ...but what's worse is when the check maker die doesn't make the appropriate size GC, or maybe makes one that's too tall...Then making it right, or making a different check maker die...that really eats into the profit.

There is at least one member here who has bought one, and had a issue, but the fella did make it right, by making another die.

$80 is the current price. Been pleased with mine. Maybe when I have some more Money, I'll get one of these others you're referring to so I can test all 3 styles ;)

[dimaprok]

That is what I was running into with that check maker I ordered. Man, what a mess. I have sent it back and the dude said he was going to weld the forming pin in. From what you guys are saying if the checks continue to stick on the forming pin it will be impossible to get them off. I got a feeling my money has been wasted.

Yes, welding the pin down makes no sense. If you're trying to use normal size Amerimax it will stick. I use .005 - .008 for .22, anything thicker and it distorts bullet and gas check. I found that on 22 bullets the soft gas checks actually distort easily, maybe my bullets are too hard. The semi-hard brass/copper that I got sample of actually worked great, the gas check was not distorted where a soft aluminum I've tried in same thickness when pushed through Lee die created this fin this is why I use .005" only that way it's not too thick and doesn't distort. I'll reply to your PM in a bit.
277653

[KenH]

Those are some pretty gas checks! Good job

[Harter66]

Since I only cast for 22,25,26,27,28,30,31,32,35,and both 45 cal I'm pretty easy on a size . 32/8mm would be my lowest priority and 28/7mm my highest at the moment , I could fall into 257 & 6.5 at any moment and 6.5 is going to be a hassle as I have a new tight .264 and a slopped out Japanese that needs .272 so I'm back to 270 or 7mm .
I would prefer a single stroke for a regular press and I have an up stroke press that has a space I can mount it upside down or upside up . If it makes me work very hard I'll stick it in Pacific/Hornady 008 , RCII or Big Max but I'd rather run it in a C type like a Spartan or Pacific super .

Time lines .........um ......I learned paper patched to avoid gas checks I have a couple K of most that I use and I don't foresee me hot rodding enough of those 500 gr 45s in an 1895 G to run out of the 500 on hand and those are probably just going to be sub sonic sledge hammer types .

[fcvan]

I have no issue with the .014 and my home made check maker. This is what I use.

US version is called Amerimax

What he said ^^^

I have several thicknesses as some check shanks are bigger than others. I made up baggies marked with the different thickness written on the bag. I joined Cast Boolits because a net search brought me here because of PatMarlins. I think I have 5 checkmaker dies, 22/30/35 and plain base check makers for 35 and 45. I PC everything now so PB checks are obsolete for me, 22 and 30 are about all I have used the most of. Haven't made checks in 5 years, made a huge stockpile back when.

As far as PB checks, energy drink cans are a bit thicker, aluminum bottles are thicker still. I stopped drinking sometime ago, and even quit soda so no cans for me unless my brother's grand son buys a Monster. I have a coffee can full of flattened cans and use a Harbor Freight paper cutter for my PB and Amerimax strips. BTW, the Amerimax works better if annealed. I cut enough strips for 100 or so, clamp all of them in vise grips at the same time, and immerse into the lead pot for 15 to 20 seconds. Done, lead doesn't stick very well, just wipes off with my gloved hand.

[slide]

It's been twelve days and still no gas check maker. When I sent it back I was told that the day he got it it would be fixed and headed back to me. This guy has no honor. I don't care if it comes back and it works. This is ridiculous.

[Conditor22]

Back in November, there is a fella on the "Book of Faces" that started selling GC makers for $60 each. They are designed with threads for reloading presses and can make a GC in a single stroke like the FreeChex. Now he did have a price increase on Jan 1st...I don't know his new price? I think you gotta call for that. I'm not sure how he makes any money???? at $60 ...but what's worse is when the check maker die doesn't make the appropriate size GC, or maybe makes one that's too tall...Then making it right, or making a different check maker die...that really eats into the profit.

There is at least one member here who has bought one, and had a issue, but the fella did make it right, by making another die.


Making GC makers isn't the hard part, heat treating them so they last without out deforming/warping is

[slide]

I had him heat treat mine or I guess he did. I could see where the forming pin could warp. Do you know how hot they get them?

[AndyC]

It's been twelve days and still no gas check maker. When I sent it back I was told that the day he got it it would be fixed and headed back to me. This guy has no honor. I don't care if it comes back and it works. This is ridiculous.
Is it perhaps simply due to the winter chaos slowing down the mail? I sent someone here some .44 gas-checks on the 9th Feb and they're STILL in Texas, according to the tracking #

[slide]

I suppose it is possible. He received the gas check maker on Feb. 8th. Time will tell.

[redneck1]

i kind sat back , let the thread unfold and learned a few things in the process .
i dont think ill rush my lathe purchase i think in the long run ill be better of sticking with my original plans and not rushing things

[slide]

That is a good idea.

[slide]

Okay, almost been one month since I sent the gas check maker back. Have received no word on the status. I sent e-mail today and if the pattern holds true I will get a return e-mail saying my check maker is ready to ship. Then it will be another week before it ships with no notice of shipping. I have been more than patient on this deal. This time I will ask for my money back. I don't care if it is ready or not. With this kind of customer service the workmanship can't be that great. This guy needs to get out of the gas check maker business. I hear some people praise him and his work and some have come to depise him. Too hit and miss for me.

[AndyC]

Sorry to hear that, mate - I was hoping to hear a happy/fast resolution but that sucks :(

[slide]

Thanks! You win some and you lose some.

[slide]

Well, I got a call from the dude's wife. She said they had sent me a gas check maker on 2/12/21 but they sent no tracking number. She started crying and promised they would get another out tomorrow. What can I say I guess I am a sucker. Woman can turn tears off and on like a water faucet. I insisted that I be given a tracking number so we will see. I guess it is possible that the thing could have gotten lost or stolen with all the bad weather. Man, what a ride.

[Petander]

In fact I figured the thick material was probably a bit much for a loading press mounted check maker so chose to make the Ed Smith version and use a mallet to punch checks. An arbor press would be better but this works for me.

Longbow

I just found this today:


https://ultimatereloader.com/2019/04/08/fourteen-reloading-presses-compared-single-stage-shootout/


Here is a pic from the article,notice the different handle force needed for the same task in question:

https://i.postimg.cc/j57BZsr3/Screenshot-20210303-012934.png


My old CH 205 for example can not cut copper with the two part Freechecks-style tool unless I use all my body weight. Then when I lean on it, bolts start to break.

To the OP: things like this are what will get you lots of emails and calls. These are very simple tools but people will have problems with the learning curve. I sure did.

[dimaprok]

I just found this today:


https://ultimatereloader.com/2019/04/08/fourteen-reloading-presses-compared-single-stage-shootout/


Here is a pic from the article,notice the different handle force needed for the same task in question:

https://i.postimg.cc/j57BZsr3/Screenshot-20210303-012934.png


My old CH 205 for example can not cut copper with the two part Freechecks-style tool unless I use all my body weight. Then when I lean on it, bolts start to break.

To the OP: things like this are what will get you lots of emails and calls. These are very simple tools but people will have problems with the learning curve. I sure did.

I know exactly what you're describing - bench jumping with each cut lol. I'll explain how to minimize this in a bit.

I didn't know Gavin had this chart, that's pretty cool. Too bad he doesn't have the cheapest Lee press on this list. You know the press that used to cost $20 few years back and than it slowly rose to $40. This is what I use and believe it or not but it has incredible leverage towards the end of the stroke. Its a shame its made out of aluminum and I wore out 2 of them mostly by punching gas checks and sizing some bullets. If you screw the die out so you're punching towards the end of the stroke it becomes 2-3 times easier! Believe me I have Redding Big Boss II and it's not any easier to punch on that press (its harder), in fact I use it to derim 22LR brass and I machined myself 2 foot handle to increase leverage.

Second biggest thing I did to improve my dies is have a taper in the punch, in fact I made them razor sharp and it greatly improves the ease of cutting gas checks, than I ran in to problem, I was getting uneven gas checks and took me many hours and probably 1 year to figure out! So much frustration and stress! I would just remachine the part hopping to get tighter tolerances and than one day I took a honing stone and flattened the razor sharp edge a bit and TADA started getting even gas checks, so now I don't make them razor sharp but still they are sharp.

And 3rd - I made 50 BMG gas check for someone, it requires something like .025" sheet. The thickest I found was licence plate that once you remove the rubbery coat which comes off rather easy its about .019" thick and it was so incredibly hard to punch it!!! After a while I made a conclusion, I am not making anymore dies with anything thicker than .016" and larger than 44 mag. I haven't tried but I believe an arbor press is better suited for task like that. I realize people don't want to invest in arbor press but wearing out your expensive press is more expensive in the long run.

And lastly I want to say I machined at least 100 dies and never heard from customers regarding this issue so my guess the taper I put in the punch really does work but again my recommendation - get the Lee cheapest press :))) Another great part its C type with easy access in the front.

[Petander]

I know exactly what you're describing - bench jumping with each cut lol. I'll explain how to minimize this....


....And lastly I want to say I machined at least 100 dies and never heard from customers regarding this issue so my guess the taper I put in the punch really does work but again my recommendation - get the Lee cheapest press :))) Another great part its C type with easy access in the front.

Hey thanks for this - which Lee press exactly? Lee hand press seems to work with aluminum... I already bought a Big Boss ll to replace my CH. No difference but colour. Aluminum cuts ok.

My right hand palm still hurts after "slapping" 20 checks with a Rock Chucker , six hours ago.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZY2t08BL/IMG-20210307-173029.jpg

[Conditor22]

Hey thanks for this - which Lee press exactly? Lee hand press seems to work with aluminum... I already bought a Big Boss ll to replace my CH. No difference but colour. Aluminum cuts ok.

My right hand palm still hurts after "slapping" 20 checks with a Rock Chucker , six hours ago.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZY2t08BL/IMG-20210307-173029.jpg

Up here we use a cheater par (unscrew the knob on the RC handles and slide a 3 foot piece of pipe on it. That will save on your hand

https://i.imgur.com/fRN33tv.jpg

[tomme boy]

You has a to be careful of the Lee c press. It is hollow and breaks very easy. I snapped one sizing a 308win.

Dima is right about having the punch sharp. I worked in a metal forging and extrusion factory. Lots of things had to be punched out for a hole. We ad a fixture to sharpen the punches on a surface grinder. You could hear the press making louder noises when it was getting dull. And when using aluminum it should be able to be sharpened sometimes. Aluminum is very abrasive.

[Petander]

That will work, thanks Conditor.

But still with all these strong presses, I feel the checkmaker design should be re-worked so that we could actually use the press power.

Now we are working on the low power spectrum of the ram movement.

[Conditor22]

is the copper your using "dead soft" or "99% pure"?

[hollywood63]

Okay, almost been one month since I sent the gas check maker back. Have received no word on the status. I sent e-mail today and if the pattern holds true I will get a return e-mail saying my check maker is ready to ship. Then it will be another week before it ships with no notice of shipping. I have been more than patient on this deal. This time I will ask for my money back. I don't care if it is ready or not. With this kind of customer service the workmanship can't be that great. This guy needs to get out of the gas check maker business. I hear some people praise him and his work and some have come to depise him. Too hit and miss for me.

If your referring to the guy on book face stay clear. The first one I got wouldn't slide into the ram on the press. Was told "it worked before it was sent" sure what ever the second one had to be tapped to get in the ram sent them both back hopefully it doesn't take three months for a refund.

[lksmith]

If your referring to the guy on book face stay clear. The first one I got wouldn't slide into the ram on the press. Was told "it worked before it was sent" sure what ever the second one had to be tapped to get in the ram sent them both back hopefully it doesn't take three months for a refund.

Not so sound like a fanboy of the guy you reference. But on one of the ones I got from him the bottom part works on my old (Lyman i think) turret press, but won't slide into my lee press. So what he told you could very well be true, just sayin

[Petander]

is the copper your using "dead soft" or "99% pure"?

It was advertised as such.

I got a roll from China and sheets from Finland, no difference.

Now waiting for 0.30 mm...

[dimaprok]

Lee Breach lock reloading press p/n 90045
Watch my video, it doesn't take a lot of effort to punch but I am punching .014" which is all you need for 30 cal gas checks. Lucky for us in USA this comes in common roofing aluminum rolls sold in hardware stores and online. Copper is nicer no argument but its so much more expensive!

https://youtu.be/B1ySMaRk8y4



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Petander]

Lee Breach lock reloading press p/n 90045
Watch my video, it doesn't take a lot of effort to punch but I am punching .014" which is all you need for 30 cal gas checks. Lucky for us in USA this comes in common roofing aluminum rolls sold in hardware stores and online. Copper is nicer no argument but its so much more expensive!

https://youtu.be/B1ySMaRk8y4



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Thank you for this. Looks right and easy.

My right shoulder rotator cuff has been burning all day from a couple of dozen checks I made yesterday. One might think this is easy with a Rock Chucker or Big Boss II. It is not.

Also, these expensive presses will fail quickly because of the crazy force used with longer handles. I broke a CH 205 already.

I just can't find this particular Lee now, a couple of other breech lock presses are available.

[lksmith]

Thank you for this. Looks right and easy.

My right shoulder rotator cuff has been burning all day from a couple of dozen checks I made yesterday. One might think this is easy with a Rock Chucker or Big Boss II. It is not.

Also, these expensive presses will fail quickly because of the crazy force used with longer handles. I broke a CH 205 already.

I just can't find this particular Lee now, a couple of other breech lock presses are available.

Been using the cast iron Lee 50BMG press ("O" Frame). Works well, so far the handle is the weak link, but still took me putting all my 275# on it and then some

[tomme boy]

Momentum is what you need. Not pure brute force. You do not run the ram up and stop to make sure everything is perfect. You do that first then in one motion yank the handle to go through the whole cycle. Doing it by stopping is a sure way to break everything on your press.

[lksmith]

Momentum is what you need. Not pure brute force. You do not run the ram up and stop to make sure everything is perfect. You do that first then in one motion yank the handle to go through the whole cycle. Doing it by stopping is a sure way to break everything on your press.

don't forget lube! (I know, "That's what she said")
I noticed on mine, when I run them across a stick of string wax on both sides of the flashing it feels like the effort is cut by at least half. The one side effect though is that the wax creates a seal and they tend to shoot out the top and if no container to catch them, they fly all over

[dimaprok]

Momentum is what you need. Not pure brute force. You do not run the ram up and stop to make sure everything is perfect. You do that first then in one motion yank the handle to go through the whole cycle. Doing it by stopping is a sure way to break everything on your press.

I can't speak for other GC makers but with mine I strongly advise against slam punching the reason is if you misalign and crush the punch, you'll ruin the die. Unless you got a way to really lock down the bottom portion to the ram like Lyman American that has a set screw than it's alright, otherwise no. I actually bevel the bottom portion of the die for this reason to avoid this happening, so it can help self center.

[dimaprok]

Thank you for this. Looks right and easy.

My right shoulder rotator cuff has been burning all day from a couple of dozen checks I made yesterday. One might think this is easy with a Rock Chucker or Big Boss II. It is not.

Also, these expensive presses will fail quickly because of the crazy force used with longer handles. I broke a CH 205 already.

I just can't find this particular Lee now, a couple of other breech lock presses are available.

What you need is air cylinder puncher :))) Its been on my plate to do for a long time. You press a button and it does all the work for you! You just need air compressor. I need to get this off the ground, it will be especially useful for thick cuts. I need to build prototype asap!

[Petander]

I can't speak for other GC makers but with mine I strongly advise against slam punching the reason is if you misalign and crush the punch, you'll ruin the die. Unless you got a way to really lock down the bottom portion to the ram like Lyman American that has a set screw than it's alright, otherwise no. I actually bevel the bottom portion of the die for this reason to avoid this happening, so it can help self center.

The maker instructed me to let the cutter rest on the sheet metal, then slap.

This way it's always centered because the upper part is already inside before you apply force.

But yes,it would be better if the ram could go higher / handle lower. A custom built, 1" shorter ram would help tremendously.

[Petander]

0.30 mm (0.012") is much easier to cut than 0.40 mm. Half the pain. Still need thick,soft gloves.

Might dedicate a press for this, cut 1" off the ram.

The next question is fit, how do these thinner material checks fit?


I don't even have a bullet for this check yet, this .30 came as a 44 checkmaker by-product.


https://i.postimg.cc/yNk1ZMMG/IMG-20210309-174801.jpg

[Keith Haveman]

Has anyone tried to put a slight taper on the face of the punch ? Would not need much , just enough so the punch does not engage the full face at once .

[Conditor22]

0.30 mm (0.012") is much easier to cut than 0.40 mm. Half the pain. Still need thick,soft gloves.

Might dedicate a press for this, cut 1" off the ram.

The next question is fit, how do these thinner material checks fit?


I don't even have a bullet for this check yet, this .30 came as a 44 checkmaker by-product.


I found that I waste less material If I punch around the copper then cut off the punched area with a paper guillotine type cutter.
if your strips were a little wider you could get GC's on both sides of the strips

"Has anyone tried to put a slight taper on the face of the punch ? Would not need much , just enough so the punch does not engage the full face at once ."

check out dimaprok's video, looks like he does

[tomme boy]

The way to do this right is how i explained. I did the forging and extrusion gig for about 15 years. You also want a square 90* punch and interface. I seen how some are cutting the slot or the strips at a angle. That is a sure way to jam up the die set.

We were punching up to a 1" diameter hole through a 1" thick parts. Sometimes the parts were heated in an induction heater and some were done cold. And there were no lubes used to do this.

[dimaprok]

The way to do this right is how i explained. I did the forging and extrusion gig for about 15 years. You also want a square 90* punch and interface. I seen how some are cutting the slot or the strips at a angle. That is a sure way to jam up the die set.

We were punching up to a 1" diameter hole through a 1" thick parts. Sometimes the parts were heated in an induction heater and some were done cold. And there were no lubes used to do this.Yes, it makes sense with hydraulic power the punch will be stronger, doing this by hand we need all the advantage you can gain. I definitely saw the difference. It was easier to punch.

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[dimaprok]

The maker instructed me to let the cutter rest on the sheet metal, then slap.

This way it's always centered because the upper part is already inside before you apply force.

But yes,it would be better if the ram could go higher / handle lower. A custom built, 1" shorter ram would help tremendously.If you rest against the sheet, yeah sure but I think it would hurt your hand more.

Instead of cutting the ram I made longer linkage for my Big Boss. I haven't really noticed big increase in leverage but I do like that now I can setup the die lower. This is my swaging press that's why I got the weird bracket made to eject bullets.
In the 2nd photo you can see the ram extended all the way up and still not reaching the top. I got the idea from the thread on this forum about modifying Lee classic cast iron press. I was going to buy Lee but Big Boss was collecting dust for over a year. I got it in the package deal so I decided to try it - wow! What a rock solid press! Decided to use it for swaging, already got my all time favorite MEC press for all around single stage operations.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210310/640ff9a1cd88d22d75b353ba37162887.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210310/8f2577822110f3559e5aeab37e96aaa0.jpg

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[Petander]

Yes there are ways to modify presses. Might get creative - press is designed for standard shell holder height so the rams are too long for these cutters.

About "slamming" the handle, I tried everything for a week and finally simply declared 0.40 mm copper too thick for my presses. The cutter actually bounces off the sheet unless I rest it on the metal.

0.30 mm copper (.012") is much easier. Now waiting for a bullet, then all I need is a rifle. :)

[dimaprok]

0.30 mm (0.012") is much easier to cut than 0.40 mm.

The next question is fit, how do these thinner material checks fit?


My guess is less than ideal. I have some 30 cal bullets where even .014" I can wiggle slightly with fingers, its the bullets with more taper in GC shank. NOE and MP crimps rock solid though. What I found though is that sitting gas checks with lubrisizer like my latest buy RCBS 165 SIL produces a solid crimp - no more wiggle!

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[Cosmic_Charlie]

If material as thin as soda can aluminum gets the job done in terms of gas cutting I wonder why traditional checks are so thick? Why aren't the shanks on .44 boolits .414 instead of .400? You could then use common .009" flashing material. Much easier to punch out.
I doubt very much that the 1 step .44 check maker I just got from Sharpshooter will be able to handle .016" flashing material. Not going to throw $54 at a 10' roll of .016".

[Petander]

Got the bullet.

it snaps on with Lubrisizer. Good to go.

https://i.postimg.cc/VsbqgX0s/IMG-20210310-234526.jpg

[longbow]

Now those look good!

Did the thinner check get sized? As in is the thickness enough to fill out grooves and seal? If so you are looking good. well, the boolits and checks look good anyway.

Longbow

[dimaprok]

If material as thin as soda can aluminum gets the job done in terms of gas cutting I wonder why traditional checks are so thick? Why aren't the shanks on .44 boolits .414 instead of .400? You could then use common .009" flashing material. Much easier to punch out.
I doubt very much that the 1 step .44 check maker I just got from Sharpshooter will be able to handle .016" flashing material. Not going to throw $54 at a 10' roll of .016".Honestly soda can gas checks are too flimsy, I've seen them get distorted too easy, I am pretty sure they work, but I would be happy to settle for .012 - .014 because its commonly available and cheap aluminum. If companies took notice and produced a run of molds with increased shank that would be great. A little increase to .404" would allow to use .014" Amerimax rolls. I have Lyman 44 mold that I end up by mistake, I was going to open up but first I need the gun.

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[tomme boy]

Soda can works for plain base. Not a check speck bullet.

[tomme boy]

Honestly soda can gas checks are too flimsy, I've seen them get distorted too easy, I am pretty sure they work, but I would be happy to settle for .012 - .014 because its commonly available and cheap aluminum. If companies took notice and produced a run of molds with increased shank that would be great. A little increase to .404" would allow to use .014" Amerimax rolls. I have Lyman 44 mold that I end up by mistake, I was going to open up but first I need the gun.

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Solve that real easy. Get a hold of accurate molds and have him spec you the mold how you want. I did that with a 30 cal mold to have the base taper into the rear band so the hornady checks actually snap on. Their base was wider that the top of the gas check shank. Opposite of how Lee tapers their shank. Lee tapers their shank wider at the top and narrow at the base.

[Petander]

Now those look good!

Did the thinner check get sized? As in is the thickness enough to fill out grooves and seal?

Longbow

Yes, for this particular MP Sledgehammer, 0.30 mm is perfect for PC:d bullets. Plain cast may prefer 0.40 mm, that would be aluminum.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Solve that real easy. Get a hold of accurate molds and have him spec you the mold how you want. I did that with a 30 cal mold to have the base taper into the rear band so the hornady checks actually snap on. Their base was wider that the top of the gas check shank. Opposite of how Lee tapers their shank. Lee tapers their shank wider at the top and narrow at the base.

Your check maker would have to be designed for a specific shank diameter and intended material thickness. Dima could do it along with a custom spec with Tom at Accurate molds.

[Petander]

0.30 mm copper snaps and stays on when the bullet gets sized to .312.

But 0.40 mm aluminum does not stay, the check stays on the lubrisizer after sizing. Bullet comes out with no check.

I wanted copper and 0.30 is workable, so I'm happy.

You can see a hidden alu check in the pic.

https://i.postimg.cc/T2ztRJLB/IMG-20210312-220941.jpg