Navy Arms Zouave - circa 1965 Lock needs a reallly good cleaning

[40-82 hiker]

My Dad bought this Italian made NAVY ARMS .58 Zouave around '65, and we used to shoot the heck out of it. It is what got us involved in casting to start (minnie balls). I don't remember him buying any for that matter, but I guess he must have to get us started.

I have recently cast 235 minnie balls (same Lyman mold!), and I have 300 musket caps, so I'm wanting to shoot this musket! I have not shot it since probably the early 80s. I took it apart to give it a good cleaning and found out that my Dad did not care for it later on as we had earlier. So, while it is in good condition to shoot, the lock needs an exceptional cleaning. I've cleaned it up some, soaked it in oil, and the trigger pull and the hammer seem to be working okay, but it is still a mess.

How do you take apart and put together the lock due to the two leaf springs (one for the lock trigger, and the main spring)? It does not look complicated, but what is the best way to compress those two springs?
Fowling mixed with cosmoline and some rust... :holysheep

Just for grins, this is what is on the barrel: FARA GARDONE V.T ITALY and under that: FHRA and ser. #

Bob

[LAGS]

They make a Spring Compressor.
You can buy one from Track of the Wolf.
Rebuilding the lock isn't that hard.
But you can probably just clean it with spray on Carburator cleaner and get rid of half that gunk without pulling the springs.
But total disassembly is always the best way to go.

[GregLaROCHE]

You should really disassemble it completely at this point. Later you can get by cleaning it assembled as long as you do it often. Best if you clean it after each use. I know some people who use vise grip type pliers, but a correct spring compressor will make life a lot easier.

[DaveM]

The tool you want is a mainspring vise. Here's an example at Track of the Wolf: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/115/1/TOOL-VISE-DX

[jerry p.]

You can remove the mainspring with a 1/4" or 5/16" open end wrench. Take the lock and cock it place the open end wrench on the mainspring and let the hammer down, that will take the pressure off the spring and it will come out. Leave the wrench on the spring until you replace it and cock the hammer again. I hope this helps. Jerry

[bob208]

I use a trapdoor tool. you cock the hammer slid the tool on release the hammer remove spring. a good adjustable wrench works good too.

[TNsailorman]

Whatever you do, DO NOT use channelock pliers on your spring. I did that way back in the 60's on a home made Hawken and the spring bring before I could get it depressed enough to lift it out. That is one expensive lesson as the lock was a one of a kind and I ended up having to buy both a new lock and it was the wrong size for stock, so I ended up buying a stock also. I have done some pretty dumb things in my day and that was one of them. james

[carbine]

one word of advice. There are NO orig Manufacturer parts available for the lock. Please be careful. See if ther is a BP gunsmith out there who could help.

[MarkW]

As mentioned, a crescent wrench works but IMHO small needle nose vise grips are hard to beat but use them by bringing the hammer to full cock then tighten the vise grips by just using the thumb screw. To release you can either cock it or use the handle to slowly let it up.

[Alstep]

I'd use carb cleaner to dissolve all the crud, then blow it all out with compressed air. Finish up with a tooth brush & dawn dish soap & scalding hot water. Let dry & lube with Ballostoil & you're good to go. I wouldn't chance breaking a spring by taking it apart.
I've got a Zouave like yours and it's a fun gun to shoot. Good luck with yours.

[Eddie2002]

I hate taking locks apart just because it's so easy to break the main spring. Scrub the lock with an old tooth brush or one of the brass brushes from Harbor Freight and paint thinner or some type of solvent. Let it soak for a while, blast it with some WD-40 then compressed air and give it a good oiling.

[40-82 hiker]

Thanks guys. I was all but convinced I was going to get the spring compressor from Track of the Wolf the other day, but calmer heads have convinced me to let sleeping dogs alone. I took the lock out again today and cleaned it again with carb cleaner and a tooth brush, and it is looking a lot better. Not perfect yet, but a lot better.

BTW, I called Track of the Wolf the other day, as I could not find a "spring compressor" on their website. They call it a "tool-vise", which was not in stock. They have a deluxe version, which is "tool-vise dx", which was in stock. I was going to wait for the regular one, but I'm not going to scratch that itch now.

[indian joe]

Thanks guys. I was all but convinced I was going to get the spring compressor from Track of the Wolf the other day, but calmer heads have convinced me to let sleeping dogs alone. I took the lock out again today and cleaned it again with carb cleaner and a tooth brush, and it is looking a lot better. Not perfect yet, but a lot better.

BTW, I called Track of the Wolf the other day, as I could not find a "spring compressor" on their website. They call it a "tool-vise", which was not in stock. They have a deluxe version, which is "tool-vise dx", which was in stock. I was going to wait for the regular one, but I'm not going to scratch that itch now.

Leave the springs alone I reckon - unless you can buy spares .

[FLINTNFIRE]

There are other black powder parts and kits stores that have the mainspring vices and other tools and all you need to build or repair a rifle , I have bought from R E Davis and he sells The "Ultimate" Spring Vise a good place to deal with in my experiences .

But like you have found out most times a good hosing out and brushing cleans things up pretty good , I went out shooting a 50 caliber flintlock and percussion rifle of mine and a 36 caliber remington replica , friend took his 45 percussion rifle and matching pistol , was a good time .

I took the enfields and zouave off the wall last month and wiped the dust off them , couple of them I have never fired .

[missionary5155]

Good morning
We have a Navy Zouave right at the same time period. We tried Mini's but quickly tried a patched .57 Round Ball with 3F Goex and have 3" groups at 100 yards. We have shot 2.75" and have one 2.5" group using 70 grains of 3F. That .57 RB cast of range scrap works nice and does expand on corn cruncher ribs. Have tried 40-1 and 30-1 with no better results. Pure lead will leave a 1"+ exit hole breaking ribs in and out at 25-30 yards. Our hunting load is 85 grains 3F Goex and have never recovered any RB.
Our rifling is not fast enough for a Mini. 6 inches at 100 was the best group we ever got and most were 7-8" patterns.
We still have our Navy rifle also.... One fine deer slayer.
Mike in LLama Land
So cast up some RB and fire the along the same day. Shoot 5 each. With 3F swab every 3-4th round.

[nightwolf1974]

The Zouave musket is one of my favorite .58s!

[carbine]

Missionary, Were the minies made of range scrap. Some times the bores were oversize and you need a minie 1 thou, under bore size

[Newtire]

Missionary, Were the minies made of range scrap. Some times the bores were oversize and you need a minie 1 thou, under bore size
I second that. I bought one that takes a .580” Minie and later, traded into another one that shoots a .575” Minie. You can bump up the size a bit using powder coat. (I’m told that’s the way they did it in the Civil War days:-?). I’ve actually powder coated some undersized hollow based slugs and shot them in my .40 muzzleloader. They held together, were accurate and took the rifling well. Don’t see why it wouldn’t work on a Minie ball.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I will have to go back and look at it all again. I think back then I was casting those Mini's of pure lead and maybe 40-1.
I do know with some swaged .575 RB's I could only use the thinnest of a patch so switched to .57 RB. Never went back to try a Mini after that so getting to 40 years ago now.

[nightwolf1974]

When using pure lead to start with, I've never had problems with .575 minis doing what they were supposed to do after the powder ignited.

[40-82 hiker]

Just picked this thread back up again...

Back in the day, all my Dad and I cast minnies with was plumbers lead (pure ?). No added tin... We never shot round balls out of the Zouave, as we were happy with the minnie balls. Wish we had...

I used SOWW alloy to cast the minnie balls to use now, but I have not had a chance to get to the range with them yet. Same mold, so I'm guessing they should work just fine.