American Pioneer Powder in a RB

[brstevns]

Was given a LB of American Pioneer 2F powder along with a LB of Pyrodox Rifle powder. Has anyone tried these in a Spanish 43cal Remington Rolling Block?

[brstevns]

Should I use these as if they were 2f black powder for loads?

[hiram]

I think I used APP a loooong time ago. It was terrible. I remember the powder must have been hygroscopic. The powder was damp and sticky. We left the top off, stuck a rolled up piece of paper in the bottle like a fuse and lit it. That's how we got rid of it. I also used Pyrodex R/S powder and it was very good in my 45-70 with the Lee 500gr 2R PB bullet.

[fiatdad]

It worked well in my Spencer 56-50.

[brstevns]

Both are new unopened cans. Plan on using the Lyman 340gr bullet in the 43 Spanish. Just load to base of bullet?

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello brstevens,

I load 45 Colt with Black MZ, which was made by AAP.
I've been loading 20gr with a piece of Biodegradable Packaging Peanut above it.

AntiqueSledMan.

[sharps4590]

You weren't given much. On the APP I'm right there with Hiram and Pyrojunk would be the last BP sub I'd use. Got any stumps that need blown?

[brstevns]

Hey! NEW powder, why not use it?

[MikeT]

Why not contact APP about loading a 43 Spanish. Personally, i have never heard of it before, so I would guess that it was a flop in the market place.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[brstevns]

Why not contact APP about loading a 43 Spanish. Personally, i have never heard of it before, so I would guess that it was a flop in the market place.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

Military Cartridge for the Old Remington Rolling Black very near the same as the 44-77 Sharps

[Bent Ramrod]

I would load the substitute powders according to the general recommendations governing the substitutes vs black powder, ie, by volume for Pyrodex and whatever APP recommended for theirs.

In the absence of real data, like if APP charge data was only documented in muzzleloading rifles, I would have to do some experimentation, interpolating and extrapolating from the charges in their loading charts. If you want to do this, you assume the risks yourself. You may or may not have a good load by the time you’ve used up the single can of whatever, but at least you’ll have some data to start with if another can shows up.

In these days of shortages, I’m surprised that there aren’t people with permanent “wanted” notices asking for any reloading components that the gourmet users of other components are too proud to touch themselves, but unfortunately have in their possession somewhere.

The only things black powder has over substitutes are:

1) About 500 years’ worth of research and development, most of which was lost with the advent of smokeless powder in the early 20th Century and had to be rediscovered in the late 20th Century, with a suddenness that made latecomers into the process think it had been perfect all along, and

2) A determined pro-BP contingent of loud detractors, doing their utmost to ensure that nobody does any of the experimentation with the substitutes that is needed in order to close that 500-year gap. “Their utmost” meaning opinions unaccompanied by any data, targets, pictures of the corroded/fragmented relics that the evil substitutes allegedly reduced their expensive guns to, despite careful descriptions of their cleaning and loading procedures, etc.

The results I had with one jar of Trail Boss convinced me not to buy any more, (and I have said so and why on a couple occasions), but I don’t seem to be inspired to pile into every discussion that mentions Trail Boss with loud denunciations, and demands for justifications for its very existence from users. Where does that impulse come from, anyway?

As a scientist in a previous life, I know that Mama Nature gives the inquiring experimenter way enough grief on her own. Verbal discouragement from those on record saying that airplanes can’t fly and A-bombs won’t explode and anything that didn’t happen yesterday can’t possibly happen tomorrow is hardly necessary. Especially since it isn’t always the way it goes.

If you find anything interesting, please post he data. I’ve found the .43 Spanish a particularly frustrating cartridge to load for. I have a fairly good handle on black powder (and Pyrodex, and a little with Triple 7) in cartridges like the .45-70, with full diameter grease groove boolits, and with black powder with bore-diameter paper patch boolits in the .45-70 and .44-77, but using the bore-diameter grease groove boolits and black (or smokeless) powder that chamber in my Peabody in .43 Spanish, the old nineteenth century standard of four inches or so at 100 yards is about the best I’ve occasionally been able to accomplish. At worst, the boolits tumble down range, with a whistling noise being the only evidence of their travel and no holes in targets or even visible dust puffs in their neighborhood.

[brstevns]

I do have a good load for smokeless in the 43 Spanish. Found Unique with the Lee 450 cal minie sized down to 441 for my bore will give 2 inch groups at 100 yards. I do powder coat these. I do cheat because of bad eyes that are now 70 years so must use a scope on the Old RB.

[Newtire]

I would use the app like 2 f. Rumor has it that it’s like Black MZ which has been a great powder for many people I know. It is not at all like Pyrodex. Pyrodex rusts like nothing I’ve ever seen. Black MZ has worked in everything I’ve shot it in except flintlock guns. It clumps in the can but a few shakes and it goes back into powder form. It is not very uniform looking but sure does shoot and no fouling except for a kind of goo that acts as lube. Must have shot 2 or 3 thousand rounds in everything from .32 to 10 gauge in muzzleloader guns and from .32 up thru 577/450 Martini Henry as well as every shotgun shell I have from .410 thru 10 ga. It likes heavier projectiles best. .43 Spanish would be a good fit but dump that Pyrodex unless you are a fan of rust.