.30-06 The Load

[Winger Ed.]

I'm getting a little better after using a couple of sand bags.
This is 'The Load', 13gr. Red Dot with the old school Lyman 190 gr silhouette boolit that reminds ya of a old style Coke bottle.

The rifle is my old Rem700 with a heavy Shilen barrel and a 2nd hand 80's issue Simmons Presidential scope.
It doesn't especially like cast, but this 190 does OK.
Next time I go out, I'll get a target that has an adjustable bullseye, so I can move it over a little bit.

All in all----
I was doing pretty good until some spazzo fired on my target:bigsmyl2:

It was probably that guy who said, "That's a lot of rifle just to be shooting .22Mags".

[John McCorkle]

Very nice!!

What velocity are those 190s getting?

I thought the load was 16 grains of red dot but I could be wrong

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[Winger Ed.]

I haven't clocked them, but I'm figuring they run along in the mid-'teens' from my 26" barrel.

'The load' varies from one caliber or another- I'm thinking 10gr for .308, but all I've read for .30-06 calls it at 13 grains.

16 would probably work safely, but it'd be getting way on up in the case, and might not be the magic number for accuracy.
As far as pressure signs at 13 gr.-
my WinLR primers are slightly rounded/dome shaped. After firing, the 'flat spot' is barely bigger than the firing pin strike.

[John McCorkle]

I haven't clocked them, but I'm figuring they run along in the mid-'teens' from my 26" barrel.

'The load' varies from one caliber or another- I'm thinking 10gr for .308, but all I've read for .30-06 calls it at 13 grains.

16 would probably work safely, but it'd be getting way on up in the case, and might not be the magic number for accuracy.
As far as pressure signs at 13 gr.-
my WinLR primers are slightly rounded/dome shaped. After firing, the 'flat spot' is barely bigger than the firing pin strike.Oh nice, I be with that long of a barrel the muzzle pressure is low too.... meaning a pop more than a bang in sound

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[Mk42gunner]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

There were two versions (that I know of) of Ed Harris's "The Load." One was 16 grains of 2400, the other was 13 grains of Red Dot. This is why I don't like what I call "Named Loads," to much chance of mistaken memory in the loading process.

As I remember the Red Dot load runs to fairly high pressure, I wouldn't arbitrarily increase it three grains with out a lot of load workup or research.

When you find those targets with the adjustable bullseye, let me know.

Robert

[John McCorkle]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

There were two versions (that I know of) of Ed Harris's "The Load." One was 16 grains of 2400, the other was 13 grains of Red Dot. This is why I don't like what I call "Named Loads," to much chance of mistaken memory in the loading process.

As I remember the Red Dot load runs to fairly high pressure, I wouldn't arbitrarily increase it three grains with out a lot of load workup or research.

When you find those targets with the adjustable bullseye, let me know.

RobertYup, that's exactly where I got mixed up and exactly why you are right it's not the best idea to name a load.


So....now back to the archived posts and I'm going to go make notes in my load recipe and notes book about this so I don't mix it up again.



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[John McCorkle]

Anyone tried a 3006 load with 2400, red dot or unique and a paper patched boolit?

I'd be interested in making a bubblegum soft boolit and paper patch over one of these fast burners that have proven record of accuracy for whitetail

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[Winger Ed.]

There's a bunch of posts & info. on .30 cal. with 2400 & Unique if ya dig 'em out.

Red Dot got my attention because I had a few pounds of it from years back, it was well received, and looked good to me.
I focused on it, and skipped over the other two.

I don't know about the paper patching, I never did it, and sort of skipped over that too.

[Texas by God]

I think(always scary) that I remember Bob Forker( Guns&Ammo) used 2400 for his “UMAGGB” named load for rifles.
Universal Make Any Gun Go Bang. I don’t remember the load; matters not- I’ve never used 2400 in my life. ( Sorry, Elmer!)

[richhodg66]

I haven't owned any Red Dot in several years, but it's good stuff. Always seemed to me "the load" of 13 grains was too much for optimum accuracy. My heavy barreled '06 sure seems to like Herco and the 311284.

[charlie b]

I paper patch for my .50cal muzzle loader. I went to powder coat for the .308.

If you want higher power loads then go with something other than Red Dot. 2400, 4198, 4895, 3031, etc.

[richhodg66]

I'm getting a little better after using a couple of sand bags.
This is 'The Load', 13gr. Red Dot with the old school Lyman 190 gr silhouette boolit that reminds ya of a old style Coke bottle.

The rifle is my old Rem700 with a heavy Shilen barrel and a 2nd hand 80's issue Simmons Presidential scope.
It doesn't especially like cast, but this 190 does OK.
Next time I go out, I'll get a target that has an adjustable bullseye, so I can move it over a little bit.

All in all----
I was doing pretty good until some spazzo fired on my target:bigsmyl2:

It was probably that guy who said, "That's a lot of rifle just to be shooting .22Mags".

Ed, your rifle interests me, did you build that yourself or pick it up that way?

We moved out to the sticks a few years ago and I now have my own 100 yard range. A few years after that, I came to the conclusion most of my shooting was messing around with cast rifle loads and most of that was .30 calibers so kinda figured I should have a dedicated rifle to doing this and started with a .308 I'm a .30-06 fan, though, and the longer neck and some other things made me want a similar rifle in '06, so lucked into winning with minimum bid on a heavy bench gun built on a '98 action, nice rifle, plain, but nice. Mounted up an old Denver Redfield target scope on it and have been having a lot of fun with it.

Guess my point is, I don't see many target rifles set up in .30-06 and kinda wondered if you'd come to the same point I had. For a guy who likes to cast and try different stuff all the time, you can't beat a rifle like this.

Mine is finicky, shows a definite preference for heavier bullets, particularly that 311284. This was a ten shot group with Herco at 100 yards last Summer, when things work right with that rifle, they really work right.276811

[RU shooter]

Glad the 13 gr red dot load is working for you . I never could get 13 grs to work for me in my 30-06. If I dropped down to 10-11 grs things would tighten up , almost the same but needed more powder with unique and the 16 grs of 2400. Unique wanted 14-15 grs depending on the bullet , 2400 same needed to up it to 17-19 grs for best results .

[Winger Ed.]

Ed, your rifle interests me, did you build that yourself or pick it up that way?

When I got out of the Service in Dec 1980, I went home, and deer season was still open.
My Mom had recently inherited a 60 acre piece of her family's ranch in the Hill Country on top of a flint mountain covered with cactus.

For a early Christmas present, Mom gave me a Rem700 ADL in .270 so I could go deer hunting.
A few years later, I was carrying out a deer and fell going downhill, and over a low fence.

I held out the rifle to break my fall, and it ended up on the bottom of the pile.
I broke the stock, crushed the scope, and bent the barrel. I just trashed it.

Over the next 2-3 years: I got a short chambered, cryo-treated, .30-06 'drop in' barrel from Brownell's, and had it installed.
Later on, a high end laminated stock (hard to find for a ADL), traded for the scope, got aftermarket trigger guts,
a speed lock Titanium firing pin, flush mount sling studs to inlay, and checkering tools.

I didn't exactly build it myself, but its about as close to a custom built rifle as I'll ever get.

[John McCorkle]

When I got out of the Service in Dec 1980, I went home, and deer season was still open.
My Mom had recently inherited a 60 acre piece of her family's ranch in the Hill Country on top of a flint mountain covered with cactus.

For a early Christmas present, she gave me a Rem700 ADL in .270 so I could go deer hunting.
A few years later, I was carrying out a deer and fell going downhill, and over a low fence.
I broke the stock, crushed the scope, and bent the barrel. I just trashed it.

Over the next 2-3 years: I got a short chambered, cryo-treated, .30-06 'drop in' barrel from Brownell's, and had it installed.
Later on, a high end laminated stock (hard to find for a ADL), traded for the scope, got aftermarket trigger guts,
sling studs to inlay, and checkering tools.

I didn't exactly build it myself, but its about as close to a custom built rifle as I'll ever get.Beautiful rifle and a whole lot of good story of the phoenix gun to go with it!!

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[Winger Ed.]

Beautiful rifle and a whole lot of good story of the phoenix gun to go with it!!

Thanks. Back when I was still hunting, I killed a pretty good sized handful of deer with hot rodded cast 170 RNs too.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Mine is finicky, shows a definite preference for heavier bullets, particularly that 311284.

I've been using that same lyman boolit in my Springfield A3, 30.06. It is a 4 groove Remington barrel (04/44), 1:10" twist, that was still in grease when I got it. I found the load that I'm using in the "Cast Boolit Handbook" under the chapter 'Frankly Speaking'. Other reference books also praise the Lyman 311284 boolit.

One thing that got my attention, was a statement that good cast bullet loads should NOT be less than 50% load density, i.e. the case should be at least half full of powder. Applying this to the 30.06, I arrived at a load of 31.5gn of 3031 for a chronographed speed of 1740fps.

I loaded and fired over 600 rounds in 3 months, trying for that 10shot group under 1MOA, eventually I fired two such groups on the same day.

https://i.imgur.com/SabiU6D.jpg

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=Bad *** Wallace;5107213]I've been using that same lyman boolit in my Springfield A3, 30.06. It is a 4 groove Remington barrel (04/44), 1:10" twist, /QUOTE]

I had that exact same rifle. Remington O3A3. When I got it, it was unissued, and unfired.
It shot everything so well, it'd make Stevie Wonder look good.
It even did OK with those plastic sabots holding a .224 FMJ.

I shot a lot of cast in it with 3031 and 4198 as I remember.
A few years ago, I passed it on to my sister and BIL out in Nevada when I thought I was done shooting much.

Oh--
Looking down in the case, 13 gr of Red Dot comes up almost to the shoulder in a .30-06.

[Larry Gibson]

Winger Ed, very nice rifle!

I never got that good of results with the 311284 using Red Dot in several M1903s many years ago. Found it did fine with the 311291 though. However, I mostly shot longer ranges so needed a bit more velocity. The 314299 over 4895 with a dacron filler pushed to 1900 - 1940 fps always worked well for me with the type of longer range shooting i was doing (match on the old 5V targets to 600 yards). Last few years I just shoot out to 300 yards with my M1903A1 Type II NM rifle (built on a DHT 1903 action in lieu of a M1903A3 action) so the 30 XCB bullet over 2400 is doing the trick.

276923

Here's what the 30 XCB over 20 gr 2400 with a dacron filler can do in that rifle. S1 (sighter which was also the fouler) the S2 then right 3 clicks on Lyman 48 receiver sight (1.4 moa clicks). Then 10 shots "for record". At 300 yards this load will hold the "V" ring in the old Army "D" target.....if i can.....

[Larry Gibson]

The 30-6 in a good bolt action as a match rifle is every bit as accurate as a 308W when loaded correctly to it's potential. Just the slightly lessor recoil and slightly shorter bolt throw in medium length actions gave the 308W rifles the edge in match shooting, mostly the NMC.

You've got me thinking about trying the 211299 and the 30 XCB in my LR 30-60 rifle which is on a M70 USRA CRF action in a McMillan 5A stock. Has a Broughton 32" barrel with a 12" twist. Tim Malcomb (a member here) at MBT in Conway Arkansas chambered it to 30-06 XCB with his 30 XCB reamer and also did the excellent barrel fitting. Not sure those two bullets carry enough lube for the longer barrel. Might have to drop back to the Lyman 311466U Loverin style bullet(?)

276924

This is the last 10 shots I fired at 300 yards as i mostly shoot 1000 - 1500 yards with it. The load is the 178 Hornady Match over IMR 4831 which runs 3025 fps out of the 32" barrel and it hold 1/2 moa for 10 shots at least.......

276926

[John McCorkle]

The 30-6 in a good bolt action as a match rifle is every bit as accurate as a 308W when loaded correctly to it's potential. Just the slightly lessor recoil and slightly shorter bolt throw in medium length actions gave the 308W rifles the edge in match shooting, mostly the NMC.

You've got me thinking about trying the 211299 and the 30 XCB in my LR 30-60 rifle which is on a M70 USRA CRF action in a McMillan 5A stock. Has a Broughton 32" barrel with a 12" twist. Tim Malcomb (a member here) at MBT in Conway Arkansas chambered it to 30-06 XCB with his 30 XCB reamer and also did the excellent barrel fitting. Not sure those two bullets carry enough lube for the longer barrel. Might have to drop back to the Lyman 311466U Loverin style bullet(?)

276924

This is the last 10 shots I fired at 300 yards as i mostly shoot 1000 - 1500 yards with it. The load is the 178 Hornady Match over IMR 4831 which runs 3025 fps out of the 32" barrel and it hold 1/2 moa for 10 shots at least.......

276926Larry, that is a fine piece of shooting iron



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[P Flados]

FYI,

The "mid teens" was probably a real good guestimate.

Quickload says a 190 Lyman 311334 at 3.2" AOL over "The Load", does 1560 fps out of a 26" barrel with a pressure of 30.7 ksi.

Going a little down and/or a little up is always an interesting experiment on a "pretty good" load. I ran some Quickload stuff to see how much you could go up and keep pressures within the range expected from The Load. A 26" 308 would do 1621 fps at 38.6 ksi with the the above bullet and The Load. To get this same "308 with The Load" pressure, the 30-06 would need 15.5 grs and would do an estimated 1708 fps.

[Winger Ed.]

FYI,

The "mid teens" was probably a real good guestimate.

Quickload says a 190 Lyman 311334 at 3.2" AOL over "The Load", does 1560 fps out of a 26" barrel with a pressure of 30.7 ksi..


Thanks for posting that.
I hadn't done any deep research on it, but from looking at the pressure signs, or lack there of, and its accuracy,
along with using about half or a third as much powder--- of a flavor that's also cheaper than a IMR, I'm happy with it.

With cast, this isn't much more expensive to shoot than a premium .22LR like Stingers or something.

[samari46]

Rich, have a post '64 model 70 Match rifle in 30-06 you're welcome to come over for a look since you said you've never see one. At one time I had 4 pre '64 M70 match rifles all in '06, one standard M70 in '06 (made in 1949) and then the one just mentioned plus a Sako 75 Hunter also ''06. Not counting M1 Garand,30-40 1898 Krag and rescued U.S. Model of 1917. Couple years ago I sent it out after I took the ears off and round countoured the rear receiver ring and made up a dutchman to fill the duck pond on the rear receiver ring. That one got d&t for scope bases, beadblasted and blued. Bluing came out almost black.And with most local ranges closed due to covid looks like awhile before I get to test it. Frank

[USSR]

Rich, have a post '64 model 70 Match rifle in 30-06 you're welcome to come over for a look since you said you've never see one.

Ya mean like this one:

277002

It's presently wearing a 16X Unertl. Will have to take another pic of it some day.

Don

[richhodg66]

I actually looked at several Model 70 match rifles, got this one for less than half what the going rate on the Winchesters were and I'm pretty happy with it so far.
277003

[Larry Gibson]

Nice looking match rifles.

[swheeler]

I've been using that same lyman boolit in my Springfield A3, 30.06. It is a 4 groove Remington barrel (04/44), 1:10" twist, that was still in grease when I got it. I found the load that I'm using in the "Cast Boolit Handbook" under the chapter 'Frankly Speaking'. Other reference books also praise the Lyman 311284 boolit.

One thing that got my attention, was a statement that good cast bullet loads should NOT be less than 50% load density, i.e. the case should be at least half full of powder. Applying this to the 30.06, I arrived at a load of 31.5gn of 3031 for a chronographed speed of 1740fps.

I loaded and fired over 600 rounds in 3 months, trying for that 10shot group under 1MOA, eventually I fired two such groups on the same day.

https://i.imgur.com/SabiU6D.jpg

That is some good shooting there!

[Rodfac]

SOME OF YOU GUYS have been holding out on the rest of us....fine looking shootin' irons all! Thanks for posting the pics! Rod

[Bad Ass Wallace]

That is some good shooting there!

The Springfield A3 has never been popular and the Enfield M17 even less so, but I like both. For both rifles I size to 0.310" and use no filler.

https://i.imgur.com/4aMC0cKm.jpg