gas checks, accuracy @ 2400

[scottnc]

In a 35 Remmy using a Sierra 200gr jacketed #2800 the speed is about 2450 with good accuracy. I want to switch to lead using WW also 200gr in a plain base style unless I really need to plan on using gas checks at this speed. The only reference I have is a Meister 405grfnpb going 2000 without trouble in a 45/70 but I expect it's a might harder than WW metal. I have been told accuracy goes away much above 2000 in the 35 but don't know that for fact.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Wow! Have you chronographed that load? What gun are you shooting it in? I haven't seen any load data that goes over about 2100 - 2200 fps with 200 gr. bullets in a 35 Rem. Getting to 2000 fps without a GC (with accuracy) may prove very difficult. I would HIGHLY recommend the RCBS 35-200-FN for the 35 Rem. Needs a GC, but is a very good "go-to" boolit for it. Should be able to shoot it full speed (2000 - 2100 fps). Good hunting boolit with the flat nose.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the board, Scott!

No 35 Remington experience here, so I can't lend a hand with the caliber-specific question. My cast boolit rifle experience has been that a gas check makes life a lot less complicated at velocities exceeding 1400 FPS, although some folks can run them to 1600 or so with success. My 45-70 and 44-40 run plain-based boolits, and I had some success in 25-20 with the RCBS 85 CB plain-base......but the majority of my rifle castings wear a gas check. There is an accuracy "sweet spot" with many cast boolit rifle calibers between 1600 and 1800 FPS, in my experience.

[357maximum]

In a 35 Remmy using a Sierra 200gr jacketed #2800 the speed is about 2450 with good accuracy. I want to switch to lead using WW also 200gr in a plain base style unless I really need to plan on using gas checks at this speed. The only reference I have is a Meister 405grfnpb going 2000 without trouble in a 45/70 but I expect it's a might harder than WW metal. I have been told accuracy goes away much above 2000 in the 35 but don't know that for fact.


What action are you shooting that load in and how much 3031 are you using?


Hard to beat the rcbs 200 boolit in 35 rem it has a gas check. I lose accuracy in my marlins at 2250fps with cast.


OH and welcome to the aslylum. :)

[scottnc]

Ahem, it seems my memory is a bit....faulty. That's 2200fps not 2450. The load is 37gr of 3031, WLR primer, R-P cases, #2800 Sierra 200grrn in a 336 Marlin. This a.m. the wife asked if I had ordered my "Xmas" yet, which was to be a couple of bullet moulds. I knew there was a 2450 or 60 number on the cartridge box so when I sat down to ask about the gas checks, etc. I went with that number as fps. Turns out it is the O.A.L. of 2.460". Sorry 'bout that.

The questions still the same though, accuate at that speed? Need gas checks?

[357maximum]

Yes and yes, but you may have to fiddle with sizing.

[mainiac]

Ive been fooling with this cuss, quite a bit lately. I use the rcbs boolit, and very good accuracy is @ 1950 f.p.s. When i load past 2100 f.p.s. my gun turns into a shotgun! Dont know yet, as to how hard a boolit I need to shoot full speed, but WW/tin/babbit aint doing it for me as of yet.

[Larry Gibson]

Ahem, it seems my memory is a bit....faulty. That's 2200fps not 2400. The load is 37gr of 3031, WLR primer, R-P cases, #2800 Sierra 200grrn in a 336 Marlin. This a.m. the wife asked if I had ordered my "Xmas" yet, which was to be a couple of bullet moulds. I knew there was a 2450 or 60 number on the cartridge box so when I sat down to ask about the gas checks, etc. I went with that number as fps. Turns out it is the O.A.L. of 2.460". Sorry 'bout that.

The questions still the same though, accuate at that speed? Need gas checks?

Yes if you want to duplicate factory velocity with an equivelent weight cast bullet and have accuracy then GCs are needed. I'll whole heartedly recommend the RCBS 35-200-FN. My moud drops WW + 2% tin bullets right at .3595. I size and seat the GC in a .360 sizer in the Lyman 450. I load them over 37 gr 4895 and get 2130 fps out of my 26" barreled M91 Mauser. Accuracy is excellent so I've not really experimented with anything else.

Foor a really fun plinking/small game load I'll suggest Lee's 356-120-TC. Mine drop at .359" and over 5 gr of Bullseye they run 1175 fps with 1" goups at 50 yards all day long. No recoil and pleasant to shoot.

Welcome to the forum.

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

Ive been fooling with this cuss, quite a bit lately. I use the rcbs boolit, and very good accuracy is @ 1950 f.p.s. When i load past 2100 f.p.s. my gun turns into a shotgun! Dont know yet, as to how hard a boolit I need to shoot full speed, but WW/tin/babbit aint doing it for me as of yet.

Allow me to make a suggestion.


Make an alloy of 50% ww and 50% pure lead, waterdrop them straight from the mold. Push through size them to what you need right out of the bucket. Put them all somewhere warm to dry. Gas check and lube them in a lubrisizer die just oversized from your push through. Wait at least 2 weeks and then go shoot them over your proven load and see what happens. Then you can start to bounce it up the hill from there. You do not need a harder boolit...you need a tougher boolit...the 50/50 will do that for you in most cases in the 35 bore.

[Blammer]

Has anyone mentioned the RCBS 35-200-FN?

if not I'd recommend it for a starting boolit. (har har, yea I saw everyone elses posts... :) )

do you see a pattern here? :)

use the GC, it will make life easier when loading for accuracy in that round.

10gr of unique and the RCBS 200 make a good accurate plinker for me

I've used RL-7 and done pretty good for accuracy,havn't checked velocity on that one.

[largom]

Like everyone else I shoot the RCBS 35-200-FN in my 35 Rem. [Marlin 336]. My alloy is 66% lead and 33% WW. Chrono velocity is 1900. Very accurate and no leading. Put venison in the freezer this year. For what it's worth I use gas checks on ALL of my rifle bullets. Get the RCBS mold, if you want some plinking rounds just leave gas check off but for the velocity you are talking about you will need gas checks.
LARRY

[mainiac]

Allow me to make a suggestion.


Make an alloy of 50% ww and 50% pure lead, waterdrop them straight from the mold. Push through size them to what you need right out of the bucket. Put them all somewhere warm to dry. Gas check and lube them in a lubrisizer die just oversized from your push through. Wait at least 2 weeks and then go shoot them over your proven load and see what happens. Then you can start to bounce it up the hill from there. You do not need a harder boolit...you need a tougher boolit...the 50/50 will do that for you in most cases in the 35 bore.

I never shot ww/ pure lead alloy. Are you saying that this alloy would work better than my current alloy, which is ww/babbit 15-1 ? I am water-dropping this, and it does much better than air-cooled.

[scottnc]

Any chance my Lyman handles will fit a RCBS mould? Need to know if I should order handles at the same time.

I have a so-so supply of printing scrap linotype melted into ingots if such would help. No pure lead on hand, but I do have 100+lb's of some other stuff that I'll have to get the name of to see if any of you can tell me if it'll make bullets. It's been holding the front of my tractor down when it's got the disk on......

[Phil]

Personally, I'd try the RCBS 200 grain mold. It shot very well in my Rem 141, which like an idiot I sold (the gun, not the mold). Looking for another one now. (:>)

Cheers,

Phil

[bart55]

I also use the rcbs bullet with gas check and RL7 for a great hunting load , have used same bullet and powder in 35 whelan and also have great results . Have killed four deer with the bullet and all very obediently just dropped dead ,without much adou.

[357maximum]

I never shot ww/ pure lead alloy. Are you saying that this alloy would work better than my current alloy, which is ww/babbit 15-1 ? I am water-dropping this, and it does much better than air-cooled.

The chances are better than good that it will. You and professor GUN will have to try it, but if I was a betting man.:wink: Tha 50/50 alloy just seems to match the launch pressures of modrate 30 bores and most 35 bores. It has a balanced amount of GIVE and enough strength to do the job, and still does it's intended purpose when it lands on brown antlered critters. It is kinda like baby bears porridge..."just right". It is a tough yet mallable alloy without going into that brittle and hard arena.

There are about 5-6 other fellas using this alloy that can explain the "WHY" alot mo better than I ....all I can go is make a suggestion based on experience with the alloy. Just do not use the alloy before it is ready, this alloy is like a fine wine or a good whiskey...the older it is the better it is....have fun

[357maximum]

Any chance my Lyman handles will fit a RCBS mould? Need to know if I should order handles at the same time.

I have a so-so supply of printing scrap linotype melted into ingots if such would help. No pure lead on hand, but I do have 100+lb's of some other stuff that I'll have to get the name of to see if any of you can tell me if it'll make bullets. It's been holding the front of my tractor down when it's got the disk on......



Lyman handles will not fit without thinning them up a bit.. Buy a set of handles.

I have a large lot of range scrap that comes out the same as 50/50 you might get lucky.

Make boolits and water drop them...if you have 19 to 21 BHN after two weeks of warm storage you might very well have gotten lucky. I make most of my 50/50 using ww and lead water pipe.


I traded all my linotype for ww and pure...I have no use for it, but then again most of my irons go into the field with intentions of landing a boolit into a critter of some sort.....good luck


P.S I would like to thank the fellow that showed me the trail, thank you

[45 2.1]

I traded all my linotype for ww and pure...I have no use for it, but then again most of my irons go into the field with intentions of landing a boolit into a critter of some sort.....good luck

P.S I would like to thank the fellow that showed me the trail, thank you

You are Welcome.......................neener. :mrgreen:

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know about that speed in a 35. Most are micro groved and i would think youd outrun the shallow rifling even with a gas check at those speeds. I did shoot 32 mag bullets in a 3030 sized to 309 lubed with felix lube and then tumble lubed too. Cast out of 5050 ww/lino and gas checked. This was a lbt 115 rf mold. Got them up to 2300 with one inch 100 yard accuracy started opening up at 2400 and at 2500 they were shooting 2 inch still good enough and where i stopped. they hit a couple does like the hammer of thor. Its a ball to shoot rocks with them as they really slap them. Gun buy the way was a 16 inch tc carbine.

[357maximum]

Lloyd I asure you ....with the right load/alloy/lube combo it will work...accurately .If you look back at my first post in this thread you will notice that I guessed his propellant choice an hour and 20 minutes before he told us. It is the only propellant out of 13 or so I have tried that will allow you to get close to Chris's originally posted speeds and maintain sub 1 inch. I just figured he was braver than I am when he posted his initial ACCURATE speed. It can be done both in ballard and micro groove bores you just have to balance the load and forget some preconceived notions about speed and rpm.

[badgeredd]

I don't have any experience with the 35 Remmy but I am shooting the dickens out of a 35/30-30 at 2150 to 2200 fps. The alloy 357maximum is suggesting water dropped is absolutely the finest.

Since you are using babbitt in your mix(like I am) I'd suggest that you use a mix of about 4 ww to 1 babbit plus some pure lead in about equal ammounts to the ww/babbitt mix. If at all possible try to get some straight lead or maybe some stick-ons to mix in. SIZE is important too. Several here have mentioned it many times and I have found they are 100% correct to control/stop leading. Michael's (357maximun) lube is the bestest too. I also use LARS Canuba red with great results. Good luck and good shooting and a MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.

Edd

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont doubt it. I know a couple other guys that have gotten scary velocitys out of a 35 using jacketed bullet. No doubt its easily capable of surpassing factory ammo in a marlin. My only doubt came from it hanging on to cast bullets with that shallow rifleing at those speeds. Are you doing it with a microgrove or a ballard gun
Lloyd I asure you ....with the right load/alloy/lube combo it will work...accurately .If you look back at my first post in this thread you will notice that I guessed his propellant choice an hour and 20 minutes before he told us. It is the only propellant out of 13 or so I have tried that will allow you to get close to Chris's originally posted speeds and maintain sub 1 inch. I just figured he was braver than I am when he posted his initial ACCURATE speed. It can be done both in ballard and micro groove bores you just have to balance the load and forget some preconceived notions about speed and rpm.

[Larry Gibson]

.......... It can be done both in ballard and micro groove bores you just have to balance the load and forget some preconceived notions about speed and rpm.

With a Marlin's 16" twist a bullet won't exceed the RPM threshold until around 3000+ fps have been reached. I don't think RPM is an issue unless you are claiming those velocities with your 35 Remington.

Proper size of bullet and the bearing length are issues with the MicroGroove rifling in Marlins and also in the multi groove barrels that TC makes/uses.

I am a fan of WW+lead at 50/50 mix for hunting although I do not harden it by WQing. However for general use (like in not having to clean the barrel after a few rounds to maintain accuracy) it is too soft. Lloyd's alloy is a very good one, so is a WW + linotype at 60-40 mix, and so is WWs+2% tin or even the WW + Babbit alloy that was mentioned. The WW + lead alloy at 50/50 should also be a good one for general use only if WQ'd. However my tests do not show any advantage over other alloys of the same 18-22 BHN range.

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

i dont doubt it. I know a couple other guys that have gotten scary velocitys out of a 35 using jacketed bullet. No doubt its easily capable of surpassing factory ammo in a marlin. My only doubt came from it hanging on to cast bullets with that shallow rifleing at those speeds. Are you doing it with a microgrove or a ballard gun

I have 2 ballards and 1 micro....the ballards do show an edge, but the micro will hang a real close third place until 2225fps....then you start getting some weird targets. The key in my micro is a fat boolit, alloy makes less of a difference. I actually swage fatten my rcbs boolits in a die buckshot made for me when they will be used in my micro. Jacketed boolits are rather easy in all guns, but shine a bit better in the micro groove gun.


When I started cast rifle boolits I had nothing to go by but j-word data...I had no clue what I could not do...sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. The first rounds I passed over the chrony were an eye opener, as I had already shot them for accuracy. It really got good once I started toying with my alloy.

[scottnc]

Thanks guy's, I'll work on the pure lead. The mould and handles (and gas checks) will be ordered first of the week!

[muffinman]

I am using a bullet I pour from a mold I got from BABore. Cast out of the 50/50 ww/pb and waterdropped this bullet weighs 225 grains and has a diameter of.360 In my microgroove marlin it has reached a velocity of 2273 with a good dose of Reloader 10x. I have used this load on 3 deer with great results and absolutely no leading, ever. I am using a lube called , of all things, Mikes purple voodoo, small world eh? Along with .357 Max I have found great accuracy with proper bullet size and the 50/50 alloy, Fat is really the way to go with micrgroove rifles, imo. Whoops and to answer the question yea gaschecks are required.