How long to let boolits age?

[Evoken]

I have read on here about working softens the boolit alloy. So when I cast I try and size/lube or pc/size in a short time, mostly the same day if I can.
Once cast and sized how long are you folks letting you boolits age before loading? Or do you load then age? I have seen the graphs and charts posted on here regarding different alloys and age hardness, just wondering what you guys do and when is it cured enough for you?

Thanks,
Ken

[StuBach]

Unless your doing long range stuff it probably doesn’t matter much. I’ve loaded stuff the day after casting and fired the same day, others I’ve loaded months/years later and haven’t seen any noticeable differences in handgun Boolits. I generally don’t want super hard bullets though as I’m in the heavier is better camp most of the time so I try to keep my sweeteners down.

I suspect the more antimony the more the age impacts it but that’s just me postulating. Hopefully others have metallurgical science to back up the assertions and prove or disprove my suspicion. Be curious at what blend/concentration this has any bearing or if it’s all alloys.

[Hossfly]

About 2 weeks and they will get a couple points harder, but it wont matter much.

[gnostic]

If they're water dropped from the mold, I don't think time before sizing or use matters...

[Rcmaveric]

I used to wait two weeks before I used the bullets I casted. But now I have a high/low system set up. So it maybe a month before I get to the new stock.

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[Evoken]

So from what you guys are saying perhaps 2 weeks for rifle or high velocity magnum. No worries/wait for pistols like 9mm, 38, and 45.

Thanks for the insight gents!

[Seeker]

If they're water dropped from the mold, I don't think time before sizing or use matters...

I respectfully disagree with this statement. I use Lee push through sizing dies. I size my water dropped bullets as soon as I can get them dry. Why?...because they go through the sizing die just like any other boolit. I let a batch sit 2 days one time and I thought I was going to rip my press right off the bench trying to get them sized. No difference in alloy, I use straight coww lead for all my bullets and water drop, or gas check for the loads I want to push.

[Rcmaveric]

I respectfully disagree with this statement. I use Lee push through sizing dies. I size my water dropped bullets as soon as I can get them dry. Why?...because they go through the sizing die just like any other boolit. I let a batch sit 2 days one time and I thought I was going to rip my press right off the bench trying to get them sized. No difference in alloy, I use straight coww lead for all my bullets and water drop, or gas check for the loads I want to push.Agreed. Made the same mistake before. I sized a few that day. Took a nap and forgot. Was a week before I got back to them. I to get a real press to size them. I normally size with my hand press.

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[reloader28]

I'm also with Seeker. When I was heat treating or water dropping I would size them the same day or risk destroying my lube sizer.
Now I now that bullets that hard are a total waste of time for me anyway.

If I am testing a new to me bullet, I wait at least 1 week, usually 2 weeks for it to get to full hardness. Air cooled, mine will measure about 10bhn the casting day, but will get to 14-15 in about 2 weeks. After about a month or so it will be 15-16bhn

But thats just for testing. If I already have a working load for that bullet, I will cast and load the same day.

[mdi]

I started casting around 1980 and since for all my cast boolits +/- 2 or 3 BHN doesn't matter, I'll cast some and whenever I get around to finishing them (sizing, lubing) works for me. I have some 429421 and some H&G 68 clones I cast up maybe 6 years ago waiting for size/lube, and they will perform just like they did when I cast them...

[tazman]

I cast using range scrap and I water quench directly from the mold. Due to inconsistent alloy, the time to hardness isn't the same, batch to batch. I can only give generalities here.
If I wait 24 hours before sizing, I will usually have difficulty sizing the boolits. Some batches get quite hard during the first day. Some take longer.
I usually wait at least three days before loading and shooting as I have seen some batches take that long to reach enough hardness that they won't deform during seating. Usually 24 hours is enough if you are in a hurry.
If you are using clip on wheel weights and water quench, size them immediately if possible. In 24 hours they will harden and be difficult to size.
With linotype, size immediately. They are like wheel weights only worse.
I usually run boolits through a Lee push through sizer, then through my Lyman 4500 lubrisizer to keep the wear and tear stress down to a minimum. The Lyman doesn't have the leverage or strength to deal with sizing hard boolits.
Different batches of range scrap can vary quite a bit in ending hardness. I had a friend test some for me. Some were around 13-15 BHN. Others were as high as 20 BHN.
Range scrap is essentially mystery alloy. You never know exactly what is in it. It has always worked well for me in handgun boolits.

[DougGuy]

It also can depend on caliber. Heavy for caliber 480 Ruger and 500 S&W boolits are pretty long, and it is not at all uncommon for these to grow as much as .002" in diameter as they age, as such they may not want to chamber. When I hone cylinder throats for these two, I often urge the shooter to size what they will shoot and use up what they have sized in a month or two. I don't like to hone the 500 throats over .5015" and 6 months on a shelf will have a loaded round assembled with a .501" boolit fail to chamber.

A different take on age hardening, I know, but one that owners of the big bore hand cannons should be aware of.

[dverna]

I suspect the amount of antimony will affect it as well. At higher levels it will moderate the affect of time on hardness changes. It makes the alloy stronger and less age dependent.

[Evoken]

It also can depend on caliber. Heavy for caliber 480 Ruger and 500 S&W boolits are pretty long, and it is at all uncommon for these to grow as much as .002" in diameter as they age, as such they may not want to chamber. When I hone cylinder throats for these two, I often urge the shooter to size what they will shoot and use up what they have sized in a month or two. I don't like to hone the 500 throats over .5015" and 6 months on a shelf will have a loaded round assembled with a .501" boolit fail to chamber.

A different take on age hardening, I know, but one that owners of the big bore hand cannons should be aware of.

I'm curious, what makes them grow? Is it a particular alloy that is more susceptible to this, like a high antimony? Or does it have to do with larger diameter boolits curing slower due to their mass? Therefore the center would remain in a softer, more plasma like state and grow as it cures much like water freezing?Interesting.

[StuBach]

Another thought I’m curious with understanding sizing immediately. If the goal is to get bullets a certain diameter via sizing. If they do expand some over time it strikes me youd want to wait till all expansion was done before sizing. Tougher on the arm, yes, but more consistent on the finished size. If you size before bullet expansion occurs than the expansion will happen after sizing and now your perfectly sized bullet is slightly oversized. Or am I missing something?

I’ve never seen any noticeable expansion so this is strictly a knowledge question.

[Evoken]

Here is another thought.....
I have been told by members here to properly water harden boolits they should be heated in an oven rather that dropped when casting. The idea is that they all become the same temperature when you water drop them. Would that cure them faster and therefore stop the growing?

[porthos]

silly question but here goes. i have 250-300 lyman 266469 bullets @ around 18 bhn. cast30 yrs. ago and unsized. also 1500 45 acp swc that i traded for 8 years ago . here's the silly question. anyway to anneal them.? just curious.

[Mk42gunner]

Since most of my boolits are from air cooled wheelweights, it doesn't seem to matter if I size them immediately, or wait several years. Mine generally run about 12.5 BHN. With FWFL and a gas check if needed they haven't leaded a bore yet.

porthos, you can anneal precast boolits by heating them to just under slumping then allowing them to cool slowly, or so I have read. You will have to sacrifice a few to find the slump temp.

Robert

[Evoken]

silly question but here goes. i have 250-300 lyman 266469 bullets @ around 18 bhn. cast30 yrs. ago and unsized. also 1500 45 acp swc that i traded for 8 years ago . here's the silly question. anyway to anneal them.? just curious.

Just a guess here, but couldn't you put them in a toaster oven at 400 for an hour or so? Would that not soften them up so you could size them? Just a rambling thought with no real clue as to whether that would work for what you want.

[Shuz]

silly question but here goes. i have 250-300 lyman 266469 bullets @ around 18 bhn. cast30 yrs. ago and unsized. also 1500 45 acp swc that i traded for 8 years ago . here's the silly question. anyway to anneal them.? just curious.

Easy to anneal...just heat them up to 450deg and let them air cool. They will then become as soft as the original alloy. This has always worked for me with the one exception of linotype. It starts out at BHN 22 and ends up at BHN 22 whether quenched from casting or annealed later.

[Hick]

Hardening depends on the alloy. Pure lead does not change. Lead-Tin mixtures (no antimony) soften slightly during storage. Lead-tin-antimony alloys mostly get harder (sometimes by a lot). If you want to read details find the book "From Ingot to Target" by Glen Fryxell and Robert Applegate. I use all tertiary alloys (lead, tin antimony) so I size and either lube or PC immediately (same day).

[gnostic]

I respectfully disagree with this statement. I use Lee push through sizing dies. I size my water dropped bullets as soon as I can get them dry. Why?...because they go through the sizing die just like any other boolit. I let a batch sit 2 days one time and I thought I was going to rip my press right off the bench trying to get them sized. No difference in alloy, I use straight coww lead for all my bullets and water drop, or gas check for the loads I want to push.

I've got a few coffee cans full of unsized bullets from a year ago, that may be tough going. I've never noticed a difference but you may be right. Push come to shove, I'll tumble lube and use a push through size die before the RCBS LM2.

That's funny, I did rip my press off the bench. That's why these bullets have been sitting unsized all this time.

[Elpatoloco]

So from what you guys are saying perhaps 2 weeks for rifle or high velocity magnum. No worries/wait for pistols like 9mm, 38, and 45.

Thanks for the insight gents!

I use 475 linebaugh and 44 mag bullets cast the same day. Just loaded up some 44s from 10 years ago. They hit at the exact same p.o.a.

I doubt a wild hog will notice any difference. I size everything in a lyman 4500 and can't tell the differenve

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm curious, what makes them grow? Is it a particular alloy that is more susceptible to this, like a high antimony? Or does it have to do with larger diameter boolits curing slower due to their mass? Therefore the center would remain in a softer, more plasma like state and grow as it cures much like water freezing?Interesting.

You ask a lot of good questions. Once you get answers to those, you will likely have more questions.
Have you read the chapter on alloy selection and metallurgy in "From Ingot to Target" ?

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

[kevin c]

I size after HiTek coating a ternary alloy with a BHN around 11, usually within a few days of the second bake. I don't WD. Maybe because the alloy is so soft to start with, plus the slick coating and the use of sizing lube, if the boolit is any harder from waiting longer than that it still sizes down one or two thousandths easily.

[Evoken]

You ask a lot of good questions. Once you get answers to those, you will likely have more questions.
Have you read the chapter on alloy selection and metallurgy in "From Ingot to Target" ?

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

Excellent read JonB, thank you. I will have to read it a few more times (especially after the coffee kicks in) to take it all in.
Yes, this will absolutely make more questions rattle.around in my pea brain....

[Lloyd Smale]

my 79s kieths were a good vintage:kidding: Seriously its not worth worrying about. I cast them sit them on a cookie sheet outside in the snow to cool them for about a 1/2 hour. Then in the tumbler to coat with pc then in the oven and then back outside to cool and load them many times the next day. Heck ive done 40 lb batches like that and shot some within a day and some a year later and never noticed even a tiny bit a differnce in accuracy.

[Evoken]

my 79s kieths were a good vintage:kidding: Seriously its not worth worrying about. I cast them sit them on a cookie sheet outside in the snow to cool them for about a 1/2 hour. Then in the tumbler to coat with pc then in the oven and then back outside to cool and load them many times the next day. Heck ive done 40 lb batches like that and shot some within a day and some a year later and never noticed even a tiny bit a differnce in accuracy.

My main concern was swaging the boolits down in my brass. To keep neck tension I am trying to stay a few thou under with my expander plugs. I have read enough here and beat enough lead balls into bores and cylinders to know what size I need to be at (at least I think, haha).

[Chill Wills]

My main concern was swaging the boolits down in my brass. To keep neck tension I am trying to stay a few thou under with my expander plugs. I have read enough here and beat enough lead balls into bores and cylinders to know what size I need to be at (at least I think, haha).

I am sure you know this but worth stating, if you seat a bullet or three in sample cases and then pull them, measure them, you can decide how to proceed. Either go to a harder bullet or use a larger neck expander.

[poppy42]

I respectfully disagree with this statement. I use Lee push through sizing dies. I size my water dropped bullets as soon as I can get them dry. Why?...because they go through the sizing die just like any other boolit. I let a batch sit 2 days one time and I thought I was going to rip my press right off the bench trying to get them sized. No difference in alloy, I use straight coww lead for all my bullets and water drop, or gas check for the loads I want to push.

I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I do the same thing as you. Water drop all my bullets unless for some reason I want a super soft bullet. I once waited about a month before I sized my bullets and I thought I was gonna break my press. I size ASAP after I cast my bullets!!

[porthos]

on the issue of necks being too tight; here's what i found out. bought 2000 once fired 9mm military brass. sized,deprimed and bellmouthed. loaded up some dummy rounds setting the dies up. a week or so later i pulled one . bullet was a lee 125 gr. around 13 bhn. cast at 358 and unsized. when i pulled it, it measures .356-. checked the inside measurement of the sized brass with a pin gage. it measures .351+. so ,i made a new expander/bellmouth plug that is .3565. so, guys , check the size of your bullets after seating and the sizes of your neck expanders.

[Texas by God]

I never water cool any of my cast bullets and I size the ones that I size with Lee push through dies in a Rockchucker press. I usually size them within a day or two after casting.

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[John Boy]

Evoken, work your question from the back end .... bullets are cast to make loaded ammunition. I have ammunition that is 75 years old, wiped the ogive on a few, loaded em in the rifle and guess what? Excellent accuracy. Ergo, the answer is ‘whenever’

[Evoken]

Evoken, work your question from the back end .... bullets are cast to make loaded ammunition. I have ammunition that is 75 years old, wiped the ogive on a few, loaded em in the rifle and guess what? Excellent accuracy. Ergo, the answer is ‘whenever’

I very fair statement sir. Wow you have boolits that are near twice my age, neat.
I guess this about sums it up then, it doesnot really matter in the end as long as they shoot with accuracy.
Thank you gents for all the input once again!
Ken

[canyon-ghost]

Straight to the point, the bullets harden from 3 days to 3 weeks. At three weeks they are supposed to be as hard as they get. I cast some water dropped 7mms, sized with gas checks, and left them in mica. I can't imagine doing that after wheelweight completely hardens. Maybe you're stronger than I but, are your presses? I tried hard bullets but, seems like a lot of force on the press.

[firewhenready7]

I don't have a time line. I water drop from the mold and because I cast in the winter, I'm stockpiled for the summer.

[JoeJames]

I don't water quench anymore, except for boolits I shoot in my 44 Magnum Rossi R92. For 32 S&W Long, 38 Special Wad Cutters, and 44 Special SWC's, I now let them air cool. I tumble lube all of them.

[Alferd Packer]

I wouldn't wait and haven't sometimes.
Just resting arms up after an all nite of casting.

[Joel Chavez]

So I’ve been water dropping since I’ve been casting(15yrs) and never sized sooner than a week and never had an issue sizing in my Lyman 45. Now, the 357446 mould drops a .3585 pill and is sized at .358. The 452374 drops at .4530 and it gets sized at .452 so even if I wait weeks, months or even a year(happened once) I’m not sizing down much to put a great deal of stress on the Lyman 45. Oh and I generally use berm recouped lead.

[David2011]

I learned the hard way to size promptly before I started powder coating. With the alloy I like they get much harder to size a couple of weeks after casting and put quite a strain on my Star. The alloy is nothing special; just a half pound of Monotype to 20 pounds of COWW but Mono has a fair amount of antimony. I just use it because it makes the boolits cast easier and they look nice.

Once they’re sized I don’t care how long boolits sit around before loading.

[mjwcaster]

Evoken, work your question from the back end .... bullets are cast to make loaded ammunition. I have ammunition that is 75 years old, wiped the ogive on a few, loaded em in the rifle and guess what? Excellent accuracy. Ergo, the answer is ‘whenever’

I have to disagree here.
It depends on your alloy and use/equipment.

I just sized some 452-230TC half range scrap/half wheel weights, cast last night, sized them today to .452.
Loaded a dummy round, swaged down to .449.
Last batch of this alloy air hardened enough to resist swaging after a week or less.
The range scrap by itself took a month or two to air harden enough.
Times have changed, when I started casting scrap from this range was hard enough to use immediately after casting with the same expanders.
So I either need to use a harder alloy, get a larger expander (Dillon powder through), water quench or just have patience.

Fun lesson today- make sure you tighten the powder measure down on the press before expanding a case.
I only loaded a dummy today because the press was sitting there already set up, I already knew the outcome.
Got to watch my new powder measure pop right off, luckily I caught it before it hit the ground.
It was just sitting loose after emptying last time and I didn’t do my normal reloading checks like tighten it down because I wasn’t reloading.
Or thinking.


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[gun toting monkeyboy]

I dunno here. I just sized a bunch of wadcutters that I must have cast several years ago. A hard, recycled mystery alloy. And I had no trouble sizing it at all.

-Mb

[Krag 1901]

I have a mess of (~15 Lbs) of Lyman 311467 ~177 gr Loverine(SP?) boolets I cast about ~10 years ago. They didn't do well for me and I went to other boolets. I had borrowed the 4 cavity mold and wanted to get it back so I cast and cast until I had a bunch.
These are of Linotype alloy. I thought at the time that if nothing else I could just recast them, using them to sweeten WWs.

Do boolets 'swell' when aged? Seems like they do a bit. Sitting around during the COVID I got to thinking about trying some of them w/o GCs and checked the Lyman books, using 700x or Unique seems to be right for subsonic loads w/o GCs? I'll try 4198 too to see if a slower start helps with the GCs. I size to .310-.311 with a Lee die and will try to use them in my .30 Govt and .308W.

Anyone have tip on using these multi groove boolets?

[Evoken]

I have a mess of (~15 Lbs) of Lyman 311467 ~177 gr Loverine(SP?) boolets I cast about ~10 years ago. They didn't do well for me and I went to other boolets. I had borrowed the 4 cavity mold and wanted to get it back so I cast and cast until I had a bunch.
These are of Linotype alloy. I thought at the time that if nothing else I could just recast them, using them to sweeten WWs.

Do boolets 'swell' when aged? Seems like they do a bit. Sitting around during the COVID I got to thinking about trying some of them w/o GCs and checked the Lyman books, using 700x or Unique seems to be right for subsonic loads w/o GCs? I'll try 4198 too to see if a slower start helps with the GCs. I size to .310-.311 with a Lee die and will try to use them in my .30 Govt and .308W.

Anyone have tip on using these multi groove boolets?

I don't have any tips on that boolit, however I am interested in how they run in your krag.
Ken

[Krag 1901]

The Lyman book shows them in .308 with IMR-4198 up over 2,000 fps! The 30-40 data doesn't show this bullet, but a 173 gr flat point equivalent at 1901 fps. I really didn't try them too hard when I started. I had a lot better luck with 314299s. Wish I had cast more of them!

My thinking is that the smaller grooves allow more gas cutting or some such so maybe a slower powder will be better. I have some H414, maybe that's the key?

The 311467 is almost as long as the 314299 and has a very similar nose shape. Just behind the ogive it's .302" and tapers down the bullet to .314 as cast. I'm thinking that loading "long" will allow me to fit the nose into the Krag's bore into the lands.

But I'm leading this thread down a long path off topic.

[jim147]

Once it warms up a little I will check hardness on some I cast up before the cancer put me down for several years. I still have 3/4 a pot of the same mix to do some new ones to capare to.