8x50r lebel load data for berthier and lebel rifles

[Britishlegionnaire]

I have two rifles in 8x50r a 1916 berthier long rifle and a lebel. Currently I’m shouting surplus’s ammo from 1948 I managed to stumble across.
However I now have components to reload and am looking for load data for it.
The projectile is a 200gr fmj .327 bullet and I am hoping to use Vn140 powder as I currently use that for my other full bore rifles

Any data would be appreciated.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

A first post! Welcome to the CB Forum, Britishlegionnaire! The more difficult part of your request for a Lebel load is your desire to use Vn140 powder. Perhaps the manufacturer of the powder publishes loads or prints a small reloading manual for their products, and you might find that information there, perhaps available on line.

From "Cartridges of the World" 5th Edition:

Bullet: 198 gr. Powder: 3031 46 gr. MV 2380 fps.
Bullet: 198 gr. Powder: 4895 45 gr. MV 2450 fps.

DG

[Gunor]

Have you slugged the bore? On either?
Just wondering about the use of .327 diameter bullet.

[ukrifleman]

I have two rifles in 8x50r a 1916 berthier long rifle and a lebel. Currently I’m shouting surplus’s ammo from 1948 I managed to stumble across.
However I now have components to reload and am looking for load data for it.
The projectile is a 200gr fmj .327 bullet and I am hoping to use Vn140 powder as I currently use that for my other full bore rifles

Any data would be appreciated.

Welcome to the forum!

First off, 8x50R Lebel ammunition uses a .323 diameter FMJ bullet not .327.

I would be very wary of using a FMJ bullet that is .004 oversize, as it could lead to serious overpressure issues and possible catastrophic failure and injury.

At the very least slug the bore(s) and determine what the diameter is before loading any ammunition.

Powder manufacturers often have load data for calibres that are not listed in their manuals, you can always contact them direct and see if they have the information you need.

ukrifleman.

[wwmartin]

PPU makes brass I just bought some to try and make into 9.5X47R (didn't work out) so I I imagine that loaded ammo is available also.
Old and obsolete can be an adventure. Good luck
Bill

[Mk42gunner]

Also kind of depends if the chambers were reamed for the new (post WWI) load. If they were there should be a large N stamped over the chamber, IIRC.

Robert

[ukrifleman]

Also kind of depends if the chambers were reamed for the new (post WWI) load. If they were there should be a large N stamped over the chamber, IIRC.

Robert
I don't see the relevance of whether the OP's rifles are converted to fire balle N or not.

Regardless of which milsurp ammunition he has used up until now, it will all have been loaded with .323 diameter bullets and not .327 as he is proposing (most unwisely) to use.

ukrifleman.

[winston10]

The Lebel's and Berthier's DID use a .327 bullet in the later spitzer loading . Only the early round nose was .323 . Like every other military of the time they used undersized long round nose bullets to bore ride and switched to larger bullets for spitzers and boattails . The bores will be found with lands of .314 / .315 and grooves of .327 to .330 . The N stamp has nothing to do with bore size . Also do NOT use I-3031 for 8x50 loads as you will have a powder meltdown from incomplete ignition if you use undersize PPU cases , a too small .323 bullet and you rifle has a larger sized bore and chamber . Back to you question . I load many different loads for the 8x50 for over 40 different rifles . I have never used vn140 , but it is a little slower burning than I-4064 and faster than I-4350 which I use . With a 209 grain bullet I like 41 grains of I-4064 and 44 grains of I-4350 for about 2150 fps with a .328 bullet . Since the vn140 falls in between those powders I WOULD START with about 41 / 42 grains of VN-140 . It would be a good powder for the 8x50 in my opinion . Just make sure your .327 bullet will chamber with no forcing at all with you reloads . I do not know what cases you are using , their neck thickness , or what length you are loading the cartridges to . But since you are already shooting surplus Ball N ammo I would hope they cleared fine .

[Britishlegionnaire]

Thanks winston10, that was around the powder charge I was thinking of starting from and working up with testing with my chronograph. I will be using ppu 8x50r, I have already made a dummy round to test out safe/working overall length.

[upnorthwis]

Quick Lebel story about my dad showing his WW11 bring back rifle to a gunsmith.
Dad: What kind of rifle is this?
GS: That's a French Lebel.
Dad: Is it worth anything?
GS: Yes. Take the barreled action out of the stock, then use the stock for kindling wood and the barreled action for concrete reinforcement.

I made brass (before 8mm Lebel was available) from .358 Win. Used Lee mold C324-175-1R cast of WW over H4895. Can't lay my hands on powder quantity at this time. Best thing about H4895 is how low you can start the load.