MP-452-200 and 1911

[guy_with_boolits]

I just got this mold:

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-452-200-hp-4-cav/

And will be recording my experience with it.

This was delivered to USA in just a few days from Slovenia with $20 express DHL shipping.

Things I will be doing:

Casting (duh)
ALOX
PC
Sizing
Loading into random range pickup brass
Chronoing
Impact tests

I'm starting with likely very soft lead (but not pure) and will see how that goes.

Depending on how it goes I may upgrade to use a harder lead with known/measured properties.

Pistol is a newer 1911 with 5" barrel, unmodified

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-452-200-hp-4-cav/

[45DUDE]

Measure before you alox. You may need a sizer. I like the shape. Let us know what size it drops.

[mainiac]

Awesome mold!! Drop .453,and casts super easy.feeds flawless in ruger american pistols,,why i bought it.

[guy_with_boolits]

Okay made a 100 or so

Mold seems easy to use, no harder than the 6 cavity LEE SWC. Maybe easier actually.

Comes with small bottle of lube, lubed the pivot, the sprue plate underside and mold block top side, and hollow point side pins

My LEE handles for 6 cav fit however this mold sprue plate does not have a handle so you have to knock it free with something..I used a hammer handle (not the head)

I did a couple dozen right into water to see if I could improve hardness on this range pickup super soft alloy I'm using

I did the hex penta hollow first.

Seems they drop between .4545 and .457 ...is that a surprise? I was already planning on sizing them so this doesnt present an issue.

I'm going to go through my boolits now and see how many are keepers. I'm pretty sure I got things hot enough as the sprue remained molten for 3 to 5 seconds after pouring.

Whats a good starting load for these? Should I go with lead round nose 200gn?

https://i.postimg.cc/vHfVYFBh/20210129-191608.jpg

[onelight]

Very nice . Look forward to your reports on them.

[guy_with_boolits]

Hmm.

Seems I need a COAL of 1.165" to pass plunk test.

Now I need to find load data.


I've also noticed my bullet seating die is scraping off brass. The inside seems to have a rough spot. I think. Hard to tell. Its only made maybe a few hundred rounds. Came with my loadmaster. Isnt it carbide?

[Forrest r]

I use a oal of 1.185"

[reddog81]

1.165 sounds about right.

What do the bullets weigh?

Seating dies wouldn’t be carbide. The sizing die is carbide.

[onelight]

With Lee 4 die pistol sets if you are loading brass that has not been chamfered , the powder /expander flare die will roll the hard corner off the inside of the case mouth and crimp dies can roll the outside corner of the case off , and leave brass shavings or even a partial ring . This is at its worst on new or once fired cases and will normally not happen if the mouth is chamfered or on cases that have been loaded more than once. Other than a bit of a mess I have seen no problems from it. It also seems that tumbling with pins will peen those hard corners enough to reduce this . I have seen this on other brands of crimp dies , usually when not chamfered and using to much flare for cast.

[guy_with_boolits]

1.165 sounds about right.

What do the bullets weigh?

Seating dies wouldn’t be carbide. The sizing die is carbide.

looks like 206 +/- 0.75 gn for the penta hollow point

[guy_with_boolits]

I'm thinking of copying (after cross checking) OS OK's load: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405937-best-45ACP-hollow-point-mold&p=4953198&viewfull=1#post4953198

Or at least using it as a starting point (not a starting load, but just somewhere to compare to)

Mine will be:

-loaded shorter (1.165 vs 1.182)
-weigh less (208gn PC'd vs 212gn) probably irrelevant
-use a different powder (I dont have tightgroup. I have IMR RED, HP38, Bullseye, and CFE pistol)

The bullet seems to be the same length as the LEE SWC (.582")

I would imagine therefore that COAL and powder charge would be very similar then if not identical.

https://i.imgur.com/PFSIcHl.jpg

[onelight]

If his OAL won't plunk in your gun you need to back up on the powder charge for the OAL that will plunk in your gun. Don't take short cuts work up YOUR load for YOUR gun . He did good giving you what works in his and can this can give you information to make a decision on where to start but you still need to do your own work up.
His is probably safe in yours but do you want "probably" or do you want to know its safe.
There is a reason manuals give starting loads and max loads.

[guy_with_boolits]

If his OAL won't plunk in your gun you need to back up on the powder charge for the OAL that will plunk in your gun. Don't take short cuts work up YOUR load for YOUR gun . He did good giving you what works in his and can this can give you information to make a decision on where to start but you still need to do your own work up.
His is probably safe in yours but do you want "probably" or do you want to know its safe.
There is a reason manuals give starting loads and max loads.

I'm going to actually use starting data for the LEE SWC, since the bullets are the same weight and length, and I've actually used those loads in my pistol without issue (besides leading, but I have reason to believe that is other factors)

[onelight]

I'm going to actually use starting data for the LEE SWC, since the bullets are the same weight and length, and I've actually used those loads in my pistol without issue (besides leading, but I have reason to believe that is other factors)
If you don't do this you will find it out probably sooner than later but until you hit the point in your work up that you get reliable function feeding and cycling the gun to lock back load small numbers of rounds (for me it's 5 to 10 ) you can load several steps in the ladder of powder charges but if you have a problem you are stuck with pulling bullets , when you hit the point that the gun is fully cycling and feeding load up 50 for velocity and accuracy tests bring something else to shoot the rest of your range time so you enjoy the trip :)
You probably know all this but lots of people may read it that are just learning.

[guy_with_boolits]

If you don't do this you will find it out probably sooner than later but until you hit the point in your work up that you get reliable function feeding and cycling the gun to lock back load small numbers of rounds (for me it's 5 to 10 ) you can load several steps in the ladder of powder charges but if you have a problem you are stuck with pulling bullets , when you hit the point that the gun is fully cycling and feeding load up 50 for velocity and accuracy tests bring something else to shoot the rest of your range time so you enjoy the trip :)
You probably know all this but lots of people may read it that are just learning.

I'm a little overwhelmed right now..I have alot of untested boolit loads that need to be evaluated and 100% of my ammo right now is my own loads, and its running low. But luckily the range is close and I can go there whenever so I am going to do a bunch of tests today.

With the chrono data I get I'm going to hopefully dial in the loads and be able to produce a big batch of ammo

[onelight]

Enjoy your range trip , the finding a working load can be as fun as the shooting and is a lot more satisfying than opening a box of WW white box and blowing 50 rounds down range :)

[45DUDE]

Your boolits look plenty good. I have some accurate 1911 Bullseye guns. 4.5 of Bullseye is my favorite load for a 200 grain boolit. I have a Lyman 4 hole that drops a .454. When I size to .452 they are nice and round.

[guy_with_boolits]

Okay chronoed today..did a single water jug test but was unable to recover bullet..will try that again soon

MP-452-200 with lube groove
hollow point, penta
unknown lead hardness, most likely soft
no water quench
1.165" +/- .004" COAL
4.5gn Bullseye
plunk tested probably 30% in barrel..seem fine
random range pickup brass
boolits weigh about 206gn
powder coated 20 mins at 400F
sized .452
shot 7 round
did not test accuracy, only shot for the chrono
barrel looked clean afterwards..I mean minor dusting and some chunks..seems like a single wipe would get rid of it

845
839
852
848

Bullseye data says 807fps at 1.19" min OAL @ 4.6 gn for 200 gn speer LSWC...so I think maybe my shorter COAL is increasing the velocity?
three rounds did not chrono

had 1 failure to feed (2nd round)..others chambered fine it seems

FTF round measures longer (1.177") and wider dia (0.475")..I'm pretty sure what happened is an unsized boolit made it through my process. So I'm going to just ignore it.

Primers definitely changed shape but still have a radius. Look good?

Not sure where to go from here. This is my primary boolit so, I neeed lots of this ammo. Should I push for some more velocity, or is this a good stopping point? I suppose I still need to test accuracy.

https://i.postimg.cc/DfskX4cn/20210130-194228.jpg

[45DUDE]

With the loaded ammo the bullet is supposed to be level with the hood on the barrel and have a little wiggle. I seat a boolit like that even with the shoulder on the boolit. Some people let the shoulder stick out a little. Barrels have different lengths to the rifling in a 45acp. I have 12 extra barrels and some are different. That that is why you need to check for proper fit before you load a bunch. I only shoot midrange target loads as to what prints good on paper. Shooting range brass there are 4 different size flash holes under the primer in large primer. Most of the large are CCI and Federal. I keep them in different batches when trying to shoot a good target. I have one 45 that works good on 3.5 of Bullseye. I have shot 5 grains before but backed it down to the most accurate load for my gun. You can get a pack of recoil springs on ebay for testing different loads for about $25. Five different colors. If you see any AMERC brass trash it.

[onelight]

Load 50 more just like them shoot them to get a better test for function and performance .
If you have something in your process that caused the problem you will want to eliminate that. Shooting 50 will give you a much better idea of how the load and your process is working . You won't want 300 rounds that won't feed a whole mag without a problem :) you are making good progress .

[guy_with_boolits]

Shot about 60 rounds of this today (PC'd MP-452-200 penta with lube groove, very soft lead, 4.5 gn bullseye, COAL 1.16")

Zero FTF's!

Accuracy seemed okay but I am a new shooter so not sure how I should realistically evaluate that.

[onelight]

Excellent you have a load worked up that you know functions and is safe . And you have the OAL worked out if you try different powders or charge weights it will be much simpler than the first work up. Enjoy !