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View Full Version : Greg's request; "The Old Gentleman"......



Larry Gibson
01-28-2021, 10:38 AM
Greg requested in another thread; "I really wish the 'ole gentleman' would repost this classic article for the new generation of shooters as it is."

Here it is....

The Old Gentleman


Years ago I got a M94 30-30 for my 14th birthday. A year later my grandmother gave me $20 for my 15th birthday. The next day found me in Fosters Sporting Goods in Dallas, Oregon trying to figure out how many 30-30s in combination with 22 LR HPs I could get. There was an old gentleman observing my one person conversation and he decided to butt in. He convinced me to get a Lee Loader, an 8 oz can of Unique, 500 CCI 200 primers, a small plastic head mallet and a tapered punch. I even had enough money left over for a couple boxes of 22s.

Out parked in front on the main street kitty-cornered across from the County Courthouse was his PU, a 52 or 53 Ford. He lowered the tailgate and retrieved a large coffee can full of cast bullets. Right there the old gentleman proceeded to teach this young teenager how to reload. He had a box of 30-30 brass that he said had been full length resized and would work in my rifle but cautioned me to use brass that I had fired in my rifle only in the future. I had 3 boxes of brass at home that were from the only three boxes of ammo I'd been able to get for the rifle so my head was swirling at the possibilities. He showed me how to use the Lee loader (made me read the directions), how to clean the necks with #0000 steel wool, how to clean the primer pockets with a nail driven into the end of round wooden clothes pin, then flattened and filed to shape and how to seat primers without setting them off. I set off the first one and it scared the bee-Jesus out of me and I can still hear him laughing.

(Try doing some reloading off the tailgate of a PU parked on Main Street across from a courthouse these days and see where it gets you!)

He showed me how to flare the case mouth slightly with the tapered punch so the bullets wouldn't be damaged seating them. He gave me a small scoop made from a German steel 9mm case soldered to a bent nail stuck in another round clothes pin. He cautioned me to only use one "small" scoop of Unique. Said it wouldn't blow the rifle up if I used two but would streak lead down the bore and I wouldn't hit anything anyway. He made me promise not to do it and I faithfully kept that promise. I found out later the bullets were Lyman 3118s lubed with Lyman graphite lube. Also the "small" scoop held about 8 gr of Unique and the velocity was about 1400 fps. He also made me promise to re-read the directions when I loaded full power loads. He threw in a pint jar of surplus H4895 and a half box of Speer 170 gr FPs.

He asked if I knew how to zero my rifle as he said this load wouldn't be zeroed. I said I did but he made me explain it anyway. He seemed satisfied as he began filling his pipe with Prince Albert and asked me how I was going to get all this stuff out to my home which was 5 miles away on James Howe Road. I said I guessed I'd have to carry it since my folks were at work but he laughed and told me to pick up the can of bullets which was full. I knew it was going to be a lonnnnnng walk home!

He said not to worry and gave me a ride home. I still remember the wonderful smell of the Prince Albert and the magical thoughts that were dancing in my mind on the ride home. I took the reloading stuff in the house and brought out my M94 to show him. He looked it over as if it was the most wonderful rifle he had ever seen! He "hummm'd" at this and "aawwww'd" at that and shouldered it a couple times commenting on the balance and handiness. He handed it back and said it was a very fine rifle indeed. He then said he had to go and I watched him drive down our ranch driveway with his hand and a puff of smoke waving out the window to me.

Well the summer went by and I had many magical experiences hunting and shooting my M94 with that load. I had zeroed the rifle as the old gentleman had said to, at 50 yards. Many a squirrel, a few rabbits and some headshot quail fell to my rifle. Also a large number of pine cones, sticks and dirt clods! Fall came around and I found myself back in Fosters Sporting goods to get some more primers to load up the 170s for deer hunting.

My mother, seeing how much I enjoyed the rifle and reloading, told me to get the gentleman's name the next time I was in Fosters so I could thank him. I asked the guy who ran Fosters if he knew him. He paused and then sadly said he had known the old gentleman for years. Said the old gentleman had "the cancer" and wasn't with us anymore. When the old gentleman saw me in the store the spring before he had already sold most of his rifles and reloading equipment as his own boy had been killed in the Pacific during the war and he didn't have anyone else he wanted to leave the equipment to.

He told me the old gentleman had mentioned me the last time he'd been in saying he'd wished he had a grandson he could teach to reload the way he did me. The guy then reached behind the counter and brought out another coffee can full of cast bullets and a whole brick of primers on top! The guy had a tear in his eye as he slid the can across the counter to me. Then he told me the old gentleman figured I would be needing them. It was a long five mile walk home carrying that coffee can of bullets, I cried the whole way.

Well, a lot of years have gone since then. I went off into the Army and my brother ended up with my M94. His interests were different and the Lee loader was lost somewhere along the way. I finally got the M94 back from him about 10 years ago. It still shoots quite well though I had to have it refinished. This summer my grandson, age 12, came out for a visit from Florida. He took a real shine to my M94 and shot it a lot. He really likes that it was my first big game rifle and thinks it should be his too! And so it will be. I picked up a new Legacy M94 for me last week with a 24" barrel so I can see the sights. I can't wait for my grandson's next visit when we can both walk through the woods with our M94s.

And, oh yes, there is a Lee loader, a can Of Unique and a coffee can full of Lyman 3118s waiting for him! I'll try to fulfill the old gentleman's wish.

Larry Gibson

OS OK
01-28-2021, 10:52 AM
The Old Gentleman, I think would be proud to see what you have done with that first 'thimble full' of information he gave you. Thanks for sharing it.

reloader28
01-28-2021, 10:56 AM
Awesome story, thanks for posting.

onelight
01-28-2021, 11:02 AM
What a great article .
thank you so much for posting it Larry

Kimber1911
01-28-2021, 11:33 AM
Great story, thank you for posting

Der Gebirgsjager
01-28-2021, 11:43 AM
A great read, Larry. If we could all mentor just one young person into the world of shooting and reloading how great it would be.

DG

rintinglen
01-28-2021, 11:53 AM
What a wonderful tale! How kind and thoughtful of the old fellow to help out a youngster. Thank you, Larry, for sharing.

ebb
01-28-2021, 12:07 PM
WOW what an amazing story. Thank you for sharing it with us.

toallmy
01-28-2021, 12:09 PM
Every time I read the story it makes my eyes water up and I find it hard to swallow .
Thank you for posting again .

frkelly74
01-28-2021, 12:16 PM
This answers the question, " how do you bring tears to a crusty old mans eye? "

John McCorkle
01-28-2021, 12:45 PM
Inspiring, thanks Larry for sharing!!

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Rcmaveric
01-28-2021, 12:54 PM
Made me cry. Good story and life lesson. Angels walk among us and we all live until our work is complete.

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Dunross
01-28-2021, 01:22 PM
Dang allergies got my eyes to watering bad just now.

Excellent story.

oley55
01-28-2021, 01:43 PM
Ditto on those dang allergies.

and for what it's worth... there's a good bunch of "The Old Gentleman..." being shared daily on this forum for both young and old kids.

thanks for sharing

dverna
01-28-2021, 01:50 PM
Yep, my allergies seem worse today too.

littlejack
01-28-2021, 01:57 PM
Great story Larry.
I just turned 71 November of 2020. When I was 15, I had a family friend ( almost like a dad) mentor me on the art of reloading, and the fine points of shooting. My starter rifle was a sporterized model 98 8mm Mauser. He moved back to Virginia years ago, and passed away 3 years ago. I haven't forgot what he taught me years ago. I will never forget Joe.
Thank you again Larry for posting the wonderful story.
Regards

FredBuddy
01-28-2021, 02:01 PM
Hhmmmmm.

I'd been thinking about how to get a guy into
reloading and offered that he could come to
my place and I would coach him. Nothing.

Monday I dug out my old Lee Loader, some HP-38,
50 boolits and primers and a plastic mallet. Put in
a shoe box and gave it to him Tuesday along with
some "admonitions".

Today, Thursday, he gave me his first 2 rounds.
First one the primer was backward, the second,
more than 1 scoop of powder. He understood
what he did and knew those were not to be fired.

And then I read Larry's post ! We shall see how
my story unfolds....

BrutalAB
01-28-2021, 03:03 PM
Thank you for posting this. And thank you for sharing your knowledge, theres a lot of us who have aat on your digital tailgate.

Bazoo
01-28-2021, 04:33 PM
Thanks for sharing, teared me up a bit too. I read it while I was holding my son. I got a model 94 myself, which he'll get some day.

jeepyj
01-28-2021, 04:36 PM
Wonderful story Larry, Seems as though his help shape a life long appreciation for the art of hand-loading for a appreciative young fellow. Something we need a bit more of this day and age. thank you for the share. - Jeepyj

Mk42gunner
01-28-2021, 05:50 PM
Thanks for posting this story again Larry. Every time I read it, my tear ducts get flushed out.

Robert

boog
01-28-2021, 08:43 PM
What a great story! Thanks for sharing and making another grown man choke back a tear.

45workhorse
01-28-2021, 09:06 PM
Nice story!
May there continue to be 'old Gentlemen' teaching the ways of reloading. Especially with all these new folks buying their first weapon!

I have at least passed it on to my son! Muzzle loaders, single shot rifles, pistol........you name it, he enjoys shooting and reloading them.

Tim357
01-28-2021, 09:14 PM
Thank you Mr. Gibson. That is an awesome story!

Hickok
01-28-2021, 09:19 PM
Larry, Thanks for the great narrative!

buckwheatpaul
01-28-2021, 09:39 PM
Larry, What a wonderful story......many of us have had mentors just like you had and I thank God for those special men and women.....and I have had the privilege to help others along their road to reloading and still love helping those that want and need our help....and I have noticed you have done a lot for others on our Cast Boolits forum.....keep up the good work and spread the knowledge.....Paul

CraigOK
01-28-2021, 09:49 PM
I'm sure he's smiling up in heaven knowing the impact his kindness had on you and that you've more than paid it forward

samari46
01-29-2021, 12:36 AM
I got discharged from active service from the navy in '67. At the time I had an 1891Argentine mauser, M1 carbine from the NRA and a U.S. model of 1917. Ammo for all was cheap and mostly military surplus. Used to shoot at the old Brookhaven range way out on Long Island. Plenty of WWII vets back then and they always had plenty of WWII surplus 30-06 ammo. Well long story short in short order had a 5 gallon bucket of empty cases. And one day one vet asked if I reloaded. Said no not at this time. Well they put me onto a source for the 150 grain M2 bullets and said get a Lyman reloading manual. Found a gun shop not all that far from home. Couple pounds IMR 4895, primers dies and press and some other goodies. Back then everything would fit in a navy surplus 20mm ammo can. Been at it over 50 years. Sufficed to say I've out grown the old ammo can. Heck even met a guy who worked with my day on the LIRR. Sadly all those great guys are gone now, but they helped me out when I made 1.95 an hour. Their generosity will never be forgotten. They closed that old range when developers started building new homes and folks who lived there complained about the noise. So lost a great range. Frank

GhostHawk
01-29-2021, 09:42 AM
Larry considering all the people you have helped, all the knowledge you have placed out there for us.

I suspect that is one truly happy old gentlemen. That seed he planted grew into a mighty oak for sure.

And it is dropping steady crops of acorns to start new shooters.

I'd have to say he's darn happy with his choices.

Ya both done good.

ebb
01-29-2021, 11:04 AM
I am meeting someone to teach him reloading today at noon. He is not a youngster, but someone that wants to learn the same lessons. Pray that i will have the same out come and patience as the Old Gentleman did.

Outpost75
01-29-2021, 12:20 PM
Bravo Zulu Larry. Wonderful story.

Bigslug
01-30-2021, 11:59 AM
The WWI veteran generation were my great grandparents - so pretty much the folks that raised and influenced the folks that raised me. In discussions of technology and modern culture, I often joke that "I was born in 1971, raised in 1955, and given my preferences, would probably choose to live in about 1932".

I've got a couple friends who are wired this way, but there's a lot of times when I say to myself "This is how Chingachgook must have felt"

murf205
01-30-2021, 10:57 PM
My "old gentleman" was my grandfather. He was a WW1 infantry 1st Lt and he loved to hunt and shoot and since I never let him out of my sight, so did I. When I was 5 yrs old, he carried me into the wood lot above his farm and started teaching me to shoot his model 12 Remington 22. Boy, was I hooked. He didn't reload because small game was all there was in our area and he was a rifleman through and through so he didn't own a shotgun. For my 12th birthday he gave the Remington to me and it resides in my safe to this day. I started handloading shotgun shells in 1961 and the bug hit hard, thanks to the great start from my granddad. Before I retired, a friends son became my apprentice and I could sense the same love of shooting and loading in him that my grandfather saw in me. The questions he would ask were dead give aways. So I became the "old gentleman" and the joy it has brought to me is the same as the joy that I am sure my grandfather had in me and the old gentleman had in you. This young man and I now share powder and primer buys when I find a good deal and he calls me regularly to ask a question or two when he has one. He is married now and has a 5 yr old that is his shadow so maybe this thing we love so much will endure for yet another generation. I really identify with your story because I have a little bout with "the cancer" myself but I'm getting some advice from a higher power so we'll handle that later. Larry, your story really rings true and is a benchmark for what it means to pay a hobby/craft, or whatever we call it, forward. I can tell that you enjoy the helping hand that you give and it is much appreciated. We are truly thankful for you brother.

curdog
01-31-2021, 11:58 AM
Thank You Larry for sharing this.............................Curdog

Screwbolts
01-31-2021, 12:12 PM
Thank you for sharing!

Ken

jem102
01-31-2021, 01:34 PM
My first reading of this story and must say it brings a tear. I will turn 70 in March and have forgotten many things I was "told are important remember"...but I see in my minds eye, clear as crystal, the day my great uncle taught me to handload for my grandfather's, then father's M94 .32 Special. Both of those fine men have been gone these many years and my dad is now 92.
That .32 made in October of 1940, per Winchester, that I shot my first deer with has passed through the hands of my younger brothers for the same purpose and returned home with me when I was back to PA for a visit in November. I would not part with it for anything but my children have little to no interest. I guess it will go in the coffin with me...

Thank you again for the wonderful story...

lightman
01-31-2021, 01:48 PM
Thats a great story! Hopefully all of us will get a chance to be "The Old Gentleman" before we pass.

I've had the pleasure to teach one of my Sons to reload. The other son was not interested although he is a Hunter. I've started with my oldest Grandson. There is also a young man here in town that wants to learn to reload and is saving his brass. I'll have to spot him the components, because we all know the situation on those, but thats a small price to pay to get another handloader started off right.

Texas by God
01-31-2021, 02:24 PM
Thanks for sharing this again since I missed it the first time around. A great read that reminded me of several helpful generous of knowledge gentlemen( and women) that I knew while growing up.

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W.R.Buchanan
01-31-2021, 02:46 PM
Great story Larry!!!

The Lee Loader has gotten more people started in reloading than any other tool out there. I still have my first one for .243 win I got in 1971 right after I bought the gun. My second one was a .44 Special which would also do Magnums. It didn't work the other way Mag to Spec. and the gun shop was good enough to exchange for the Spec tool. That was 1976

Lee also provided the first boolit mould for 240 gr .44 boolits for those .44's. I shot hundreds of them thru my M29.

I didn't have anyone to show me so I had to figure it out alone. Had no problems with the Lee Loader as I figured out immediately that I didn't like the priming system so I went back and bought the Lee Hand Priming Tool the next day. I was in the Air Force in San Antonio TX in 1971.

It took me alot longer to get my first good boolit out of that mould. I was casting with a Small Pot on the gas stove with a Ladle, but once I figured out to get the mould hot enough things worked out. Then 30 years later Don Verna told me about this place which is the Encyclopedia of Boolit Casting and Reloading, and now I can get any question about just about anything answered in 30 seconds..

Larry was already here.

Randy.

MrWolf
01-31-2021, 02:57 PM
Thank you again, sir. The again is for the knowledge and advice you freely give. Thank you.
Ron

popper
01-31-2021, 05:52 PM
Good old days and people. Kitty corne and Albert in a can, haven't heard those in a long time.

AntiqueSledMan
01-31-2021, 06:17 PM
Great Story Larry, thanks.

AntiqueSledMan.

JMax
01-31-2021, 08:20 PM
Memories of my grandfather came flooding back. My father would put me on the train starting in 1959 with my 22 single shot and my grandfather would pick me up in Kansas City. We would spend a few weeks with him teaching me casting and reloading. He was very patient and let me learn from my mistakes. Then off to his small hard scrabble farm in SE Kansas to work and shoot in spare time. As I got a bit older I would take the bus to Viking Arms on Reno st in OKC and could buy surplus 4895 for a quarter a cup and would take a dollars worth with me to load 06 and 7.7 Jap with surplus bullets. Good memories but had to fight off allergies.

Dunross
02-01-2021, 10:50 AM
I found out later the bullets were Lyman 3118s lubed with Lyman graphite lube. Also the "small" scoop held about 8 gr of Unique and the velocity was about 1400 fps.

I like the idea of this in a .30-30. Eight grains of Unique under a 3118 (311008). I presume there wasn't any need for a filler to take up case space? I can use the same bullet in my .30-30 and my .327 Fed Mag rifle.

Thanks again.

SSGOldfart
02-01-2021, 11:28 AM
Thank-you Larry:2_high5::awesome: Sir your story is awesome very well done

Larry Gibson
02-01-2021, 07:52 PM
I like the idea of this in a .30-30. Eight grains of Unique under a 3118 (311008). I presume there wasn't any need for a filler to take up case space? I can use the same bullet in my .30-30 and my .327 Fed Mag rifle.

Thanks again.

No filler necessary. Same bullet can be used in the 30-30 and 327 mag.

WRideout
02-01-2021, 09:31 PM
Ralph Gattis, my mom's second husband, was my old gentleman. He taught me how to mold bullets when I was in my thirties, (I am now 69 years old) and gave me several of his rifles. He also sold me a complete set of reloading equipment that I still have. Ralph was a sergeant in the Army Air Force in WWII, and a master mechanic. He died a few years ago, and I still miss him.

Wayne

ddixie884
02-01-2021, 09:35 PM
You are always a good read, Larry. Thanx for sharing.........

John Wayne
02-01-2021, 09:43 PM
I enjoyed this story and the others as well. Thanks men!
I've been teaching my neighbor and his son to reload. I hadn't really thought about his son remembering me long after I'm gone.

gbrown
02-01-2021, 10:26 PM
Just a wonderful story. Not sure how to describe my feelings, somewhere between awe and ecstacy with the "Older Gentleman." What a grand gesture. I would wish that I could find a young protégé to mentor.

Dunross
02-02-2021, 02:17 PM
No filler necessary. Same bullet can be used in the 30-30 and 327 mag.

Glad to hear it because it is now on my short list of things to try next.

Thanks Larry!

1eyedjack
02-22-2021, 06:35 PM
One of the best stories I've read in a long time!!! Reminds me of the good ol' days of stories told in Outdoor Life & others that have gone to great length to avoid putting a positive spin on anything relating to shooting. i didn't have any allergy symptoms until I retold the story to my better half.....went back & printed it off so she could read & enjoy it as I had!!! All us ol' coots should aspire to mentor a youth in shooting , reloading or any other worthwhile endeavor!! Thank you , Larry for every one of your postings!!

Walks
02-22-2021, 09:50 PM
Yep, warms the Heart.

gitzitfish
02-22-2021, 10:59 PM
Awesome story

Idaho Sharpshooter
03-08-2021, 04:29 AM
I got my start riding a tractor for a local farmer, 90-cents an hour.

Wolfdog91
03-08-2021, 04:37 AM
That was beautiful thanks for sharing

Iowa Fox
03-08-2021, 05:34 AM
Great story Larry. Had a old uncle that started me out the same way 60 years ago. Now its me and my grandson. Yep that shoe really fit..

redriverhunter
03-08-2021, 07:06 AM
I enjoyed the story, thank you.

Ural Driver
03-08-2021, 09:17 AM
That's a great story. Thanks for sharing.

Kuffar
03-15-2021, 10:09 PM
Thanks Larry.
Unfortunately, my dad wasn't really that interested in firearms. He had a Winchester model 42, that he won in a raffle, during WWII. It was immaculate. My older brother hunted rabbits with it. We picked a lot of shot out of the meat, because he shot them sitting still. Lead poisoning is probably what happened to me. Anyhow, I wasn't allowed to use it until I was 16. I did a lot of cleaning it, prior to that age. I still have it. Along with some of the paper shells, that dad bought back in the 40's.
My "ol' man" was a guy that lived in north Columbus. Merle was a metalurgist at Battelle. I was introduced to him at 17. He had a huge Remington collection. He had a copy of every rifle Remington made, and was missing 3 handguns from their production. I still have a BP rifle he built, and I'm 68. I still miss him. He had some stories, and was just a great guy.
Hopefully, I can leave a legacy, to some of the younger generations.

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robg
03-16-2021, 12:01 PM
lovely story

smoked turkey
03-16-2021, 03:17 PM
Larry: Thank you for reposting this from "The Old gentleman". It has been said over and over on this thread but I must also get mine in for the count. What a great read. I have a flood of emotions going on right now. I am not amongst the younger folk but I don't recall seeing this before. So I missed it somehow. It is this thought that is so inspirational that it has the ability to move us "Old Gentlemen" to do out part to keep this great hobby going. This thread is crying to be made a "sticky" so as not to be lost among the rest of the threads. Perhaps if a few more were to put in a good word for it, it could happen. I too have been greatly influenced by many folks here on the board and feel the need to pay it forward.

Taterhead
03-20-2021, 12:07 AM
smoked turkey, I second the motion!

What a fabulous story, very well written.

I did not grow up with guns on the house and had no mentors. Learned reloading from books and about 5 years ago, the good folks on this site gave good input to get me started in casting.