Lubrisizer alternatives.

[BrushyCreekDouglas]

Hey everyone,

I just joined the forum, and am about to start casting. I'm still in the process of gathering my tools and equipment and am looking for possible alternate routes for a Lyman lubrisizer. I've read alot about powdercoating, but would still like to have the setup for traditional lubrication.

Having just gotten out of college, my budget just can't see fit to pay upwards of 250 for a new lyman 450. But considering the amount I shoot, which is alot, part of me thinks it might be best just to save up, grit my teeth and pull the proverbial trigger.

Any advice would be much appreciated as this is a new medium for me.

Thanks and God bless.

Ethan

[Bazoo]

Welcome to the forum.

You can get a used 450 for 75-100 off the forums swappin and sellin (S&S) section.

You can get push through sizing dies to use with tumble lube or powder coated bullets. Lee and NOE makes them. They screw into your press and you push the bullet through.

Tumble lube is the way to go in my opinion. While PC is great, TL is as simple and easy as it gets. White label lube tumble lube is where I'd start. Lsstuff.com

Another option with push through dies is pan lubing. That's where you set bullets in a cake pan and pour or heat lube around them and let it solidify. Then remove the bullet. This works, but it is slower and messy to some degree if your clumsy, and lube gets on the noses of your bullets more and needs wiping off. I've done it a bunch and it's an easy and cheap option. Size your bullets first then lube them and that makes it cleaner.

[Winger Ed.]

Most of this equipment has a life span of over 100 years.

Be patient, and haunt places that list or sell used stuff.
There's lots of real deals to be found out there if you're not in a big hurry.

Keep an eye out for package deals or lots that come up.
You might find what ya want, and re-sell the rest to get your money back, and maybe make a buck or two.

[AndyC]

Powdercoating or Tumble-lubing (Lee Alox, etc) and using Lee sizing kits would probably be your cheapest/cleanest option.

If you want to retain the option to do traditional lubing at some point, I'd suggest you get bullet-molds which have the regular lube-grooves (you can still powdercoat those, as many of us do) and perhaps try pan-lubing them first.

[Bazoo]

You can also run tumble lube style bullets through a lubesizer if you're so inclined.

[AlHunt]

Tumble lube and the Lee push through sizer are as easy and cheap as it gets. Or PC and the push through, my new favorite thing of all time.

[onelight]

You can also tumble lube bullets with a lube groove. I have not shot them at magnum speeds but a lot at 750 to 1050 FPS.

[Mk42gunner]

I wouldn't buy a brand new lubrisizer, as Winger Ed said the basic tooling lasts for several decades of use. Haunt the little out of the way gunshops, often there will be some used equipment for very little money.

Robert

[dverna]

Search Ben’s Liquid Lube (BBL). If you need to size, and you may not need to, push through dies are inexpensive.

“A lot” is relative. In my world, if you shoot a lot, the Lyman is not the best choice. When I was in college, and shot a lot, I bought a Star lubrisizer. It is now produced by Magma. It is the very best and worth tge investment

[GasGuzzler]

Because of a lifetime supply of Johnson liquid wax to make BLL and my new powder coating hobby I sold my lube-sizer, dies, lube, home made PID and plate, and all the dies/punches. I had $185 in it all. It sold on an auction site for $400 in 12 hours. I have less than $100 in my powder set up including the oven, temp sensor, powder and tools. I already had a Lee APP so making it do bullet sizing wasn't expensive.

[toallmy]

If I was to start all over from no equipment at all for handguns , I would probably go with powder coating , or hi-tec coating - sizing with a push through lee sizing die . But I didn't I chose to go the lube sizing route and went with a magma lubesizer . Pan lube or tumble lube will get you started with a lee sizing die , then you can make a informed decision in the future .

[Petrol & Powder]

WELCOME Ethan.

You've stated that you want to use a traditional bullet lube process. I'm in that same camp, so I'll avoid all of the other suggestions (Powder Coating, Tumble Lube, etc).


A new Lubersizer will set you back about $250 by the time you get all of the accoutrements. However, as pointed out, a lot of the gear used in this hobby lasts a lifetime; so used equipment is always an option.

Lyman and RCBS lubersizers use the same style dies interchangeably. SAECO uses proprietary dies. So keep that in mind.

Reloading and bullet casting is a journey. It takes time to accumulate equipment so don't get in a huge rush.

[dverna]

I wanted to add....the Star/Magma unit will lube and size about 800-1000 bullets an hour without any heroics or feeders. If you have to size and lube, nothing is faster. It has a very small footprint and bullets can be used immediately after processing.

BLL (and other similar lubes) require no investment in equipment if you can shoot bullets as cast. If you have to size you can use your single stage press to size or the Lee APP ($100 with die). The down side is you have to wait for the stuff to dry, and need space to lay out bullets.

The Lyman and RCBS lubrisizers are OK but slow...estimate about half or less production than the Magma/Star. A Magma/Star with one die set will be $400. The Lyman with one die will be close to $300. If you have to limit expenditures, a used Star will be $250-300 and something else maybe half that.

You will regret saving $125-150 on something that will double your production for the rest of your life if you shoot a lot.

I cannot comment much on powder coating or Hi-Tek. Reports are that PC has less smoke if shooting indoors if that is a consideration for you. I suggest buying some to evaluate the benefit...but I shoot outdoors so is is not a factor. Pretty colors are neat, and a driver for some users....I do not care....it is a bullet not a Christmas tree ornament. One big advantage is less leading and alloy may be less of an issue. Mixed reports on accuracy, but likely a moot point if you are shooting pistol bullets. Any advantage traditional lubes have are not discernable by the vast majority of pistol shooters.

If you are shooting primary pistol, I would suggest starting with BLL. It works and is cheap. I have not seen, or can recall, reports of using it at rifle velocities over 2000 fps but sending a PM to Ben might shed more information. If I needed to lube/size 100-200 rifle bullets a month I would add a used Lyman 45 (typically under $100).

[Soundguy]

Hey everyone,

I just joined the forum, and am about to start casting. I'm still in the process of gathering my tools and equipment and am looking for possible alternate routes for a Lyman lubrisizer. I've read alot about powdercoating, but would still like to have the setup for traditional lubrication.

Having just gotten out of college, my budget just can't see fit to pay upwards of 250 for a new lyman 450. But considering the amount I shoot, which is alot, part of me thinks it might be best just to save up, grit my teeth and pull the proverbial trigger.

Any advice would be much appreciated as this is a new medium for me.

Thanks and God bless.

Ethan

Howdy

My 2 cents?

I shoot often and cast often. I probably cast for 25 calibers if not more. I don't own a lubrisizer. I either tumble lube or pan lube. If the mold I get is lee micro groove.. I tumble lube, size, then tumble lube again. If they are regular grease grooves.. i set the projectile sin a pan, warm the lube, pour.. wait till it stiffens.. then pop them out and size. It's nice to set and watch tv and do this. I use the lee push thru sizers. these used to be really cheap.. but are still in the 20$ range or less. last one I bought was 19$. this lets you spread the cost out. add a new caliber.. get the sizer die.. etc. the hard lube is easy to make.. I got the recipe here and made up a few pounds of it, and you loose so little per session.. just keep re melting and re using till you get low, then make more. The tumble lube is even easier.. just liquid alox.

[gbrown]

I've done all 3 methods, own a Star lubrisizer that came over on the Mayflower. Also, Lee push thru sizers in most of my calibers. Pan lubed thousands + rounds, and use Lee Alox to tumble lube. They all work. I agree with Winger Ed, also. Be patient, wait for something in your price range. In the meantime, research the various types of lubrisizers to see which best suits you. Also, learn how to do tumble lube and pan lube. You may need those skills, never know.

[Green Frog]

Welcome to the madness BCD! One thing I would need to know in order to give an intelligent answer is what caliber(s) and bullet mould(s) you intend to use initially. I shoot some rifle bullets as cast, usually applying lube by pan lubing or in some cases a highly specialized lube pump. If these pan lubed bullets do need a little sizing, I use (inexpensive) push through dies mounted on my loading press... from Lee or one of the custom guys.

If you want a press that sizes and adds lubricant at one pass, I agree with those who suggest you buy used. I have a half dozen or so of them (including 3 antique Ideal #1 presses) and other than the Star I traded for, I don’t think any of them cost me more than about $75. The current Lyman offering is their 4500, but the 450s are frequently available quite reasonably on the used market. Of course this is the beginning... each bullet diameter will require the purchase of another sizing die, which will cost anywhere from $10-15 used up to $100 or more for custom cut ones for a Star.

Regards and good luck,
Green Frog

[pastera]

If I was to start all over from no equipment at all for handguns , I would probably go with powder coating , or hi-tec coating - sizing with a push through lee sizing die . But I didn't I chose to go the lube sizing route and went with a magma lubesizer . Pan lube or tumble lube will get you started with a lee sizing die , then you can make a informed decision in the future .


You can Hitek coat bullets with a cheap toaster oven and size with a push thru die for around $75

Hiteck 3.5 oz - ~$25 shipped
Toaster oven - $20 at walmart
Sizing Die - $30 shipped

Note: If you want to use one of the more colorful HiTek coatings the cheap toaster ovens will not give you consistent colors but the coating will still do its job perfectly

[Burnt Fingers]

I've never used conventional lube. I tried BLL and it was a complete and total disaster.

PC or Hi-Tek is the way to go. Believe it or not change is good.

You can get a very nice push through sizing die from NOE, along with the needed bushings. It's a bit more than a single Lee die but gets cheaper the more diameters you need. You can also get diameters that Lee doesn't offer.

I fell into a Star. I use the NOE adaptor on it with the bushings and it's as slick as can be.

[Soundguy]

Lee offers all diameters via custom service order. Just say in..

[AndyC]

There's also a nice sticky with lots of pics here - "Lube-Size on a Budget": http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34058-quot-Lube-Size-on-a-Budget-quot

[Winger Ed.]

Also, learn the values of this stuff.
If you see a good deal, recognize it for what it is, and buy it.

Otherwise; if think about it awhile, come here and ask questions, etc.
Don't be mad or surprised when you go back and learn that its already been sold.

[Bazoo]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?417725-WTS-Savage-Accustock-HR-Stocks-Scopes-Magazines-Ruger-Bolt

Bet you could make an offer on this RCBS unit and come away with it.

[BrushyCreekDouglas]

I sure appreciate the help everyone. I'm mainly loading for .45 Colt, .44 Special, .357 Magnum and 38/44 class .38 Special loads.

To all who took the time to share their experiences and tips, I'm sincerely grateful. I think this will be a fun forum to be on.

God bless,

Ethan

[Mk42gunner]

Also, learn the values of this stuff.
If you see a good deal, recognize it for what it is, and buy it.....

This is a true statement.

I once bought a newish Lyman 450 with base heater attached at an auction for $7.50 because no one knew what it was, except me. I made the opening bid and no one else wanted it.

Robert

[gnappi]

Since you've entertained the $250 and considered saving up, Star sizers regularly come by used at less than $250 and it's already been said they last a long time.

[Shopdog]

Ditto on #21 Winger Ed above.

You always need to be on the lookout for tools and equipment that,once you've educated yourself on, are set to bust out the wallet.

Now remember,you did ask for "alternatives". This fully equipped Wade 8A which is a small,but noticeably more precision oriented than a Hardinge..... was < $$ that some of these folks are dropping on a Star. See if this pic works.

[pastera]

Ditto on #21 Winger Ed above.

You always need to be on the lookout for tools and equipment that,once you've educated yourself on, are set to bust out the wallet.

Now remember,you did ask for "alternatives". This fully equipped Wade 8A which is a small,but noticeably more precision oriented than a Hardinge..... was < $$ that some of these folks are dropping on a Star. See if this pic works.

Nice lathe - I'm jealous and drooling but will need to be satisfied with my 7x12. Around my area machine tools come at a high premium even if they are beat to death.

[fcvan]

When I started on my own, I pan lubed for a year. I got the old style Lee sizing die (not designed for press mounting) but it was .356, too small for my S&W 459. I started shooting as cast and that was great. When I got a Lyman 450 it was because I could afford it, not because I needed it. I lube/sized for 30 years before switching to ASBBPC for pistol and plain based rifle, ESPC for GC boolits.

Pan lubing worked great with a lube cutter and Javalina, but you sort of had to wait for the lube pan to cool. The I switched to just dip lubing using hemostats and setting the lubed boolit on wax paper. Between the lead and wax paper being cool, it deposited more than enough lube to do it's job. Lube grooves were not full, but there was plenty.

I have only used Lee liquid alox a couple of times, prefered using 50/50 LLA/mineral spirits, 2 thin coats, and letting them dry overnight. Dip /pan lubing was faster than LLL/MS, ASBBPC is plenty fast enough for me. I generally charge 50 cases, size 50 boolits, and seat 50 rounds. General routine is 250 at a time, from casting, to coating, to loading. If there are 2 or more baseball games, I'll do 500+ with regular hydration breaks. After about 250, it is time for a hand wash, sandwich, and ice tea break anyway.