9mm Bullet issues 124g TC

[Codyrapoza]

I am trying to develop a load for a cast my neighbor has. I am new and this is my first endeavor. I am having all sorts of problems, using Rcbs 9mm-124-CN, I am using 231 @ 3.8 and 4.0g and have an OAL of 1.050 as per one of our reload manuals. This recipe does not function well in my Kahr CW9 it sometimes fails to feed or fails to go into battery. I have the case mouth crimping to .380 and this passes the plunk test. Wondering if lengthening the OAL may help? I’m exactly at what the manual wants me at. Is it the projectile? I’m considering a different mold since I haven’t had any failures with factory loads.


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[John McCorkle]

The failing to go into battery is the part I have questions about

If everything is exactly what he same and it passes plunk test then there shouldn't be anything preventing it from going into battery. Is there anything different with the test loads that go into battery and the ones that fail to feed or fail to go into battery?

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[scattershot]

Kahrs are pretty finicky, in my experience. Try your loads in another pistol and see what you come up with. When you do the plunk test, do the rounds seat flush or slightly below the barrel hood? Kahr chambers are cut with an abrupt leade into the rifling, and may not go into battery with a cast bullet.

Can you post a pic of a few loaded rounds?

[Codyrapoza]

I have yet to get a case gauge and I admit I’m not plunking every bullet. I will be measuring the bullets that didn’t go into battery today though. I’ve slowly fed factory round nose to watch the action vs the TN bullets and it appears the length of factory round nose centers and is more easily fed into the chamber vs the short truncated nose. I have made my bullets longer and I get some marks on the square edge on the top of the bullet from the feed ramp but I have less problems other than that. This leads me to believe the TN mold I have access to isn’t right for my gun. I did load some factory round nose projectiles that shot no problem. I guess my main question here is, can a bullets OAL be too short, even if the reloading manual states what it should be?


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[scattershot]

You can use the chamber of your barrel for the plunk test, no need to rush out and buy a case gauge. I don’t have any experience with that boolit, but the pics I’ve pulled up show a pretty sharp shoulder. The boolits I have worked with with that kind of shoulder work best with just a very slight portion of the shoulder above the case mouth. About a thumbnail’s thickness is about right. Try a few seated like that and see what happens.

[Kraschenbirn]

My CW9 has a short throat; short enough that it sometimes fails to go into battery if the powdercoat on my 147 gr. RNs is just a smidgen too thick. On the other hand, it feeds powdercoated 124 gr. TCs flawlessly.

Bill

[Codyrapoza]

Bill, what’s your recipe? Thanks all for the replies


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[Codyrapoza]

Bill, I also powder coat but size after, shouldn’t the sizing afterwords make the small throat not a factor?


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[Codyrapoza]

When I plunk test rounds are slightly above the hood


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[onelight]

If you have cases of different lengths your crimp die may not remove all the bell on the short ones if it was adjusted with a longer case , the bell on the shorter case mouth can keep them from going into battery
If that is the situation you would just need a bit heavier crimp .

[Half Dog]

I had a similar issue. I would coat, size, then coat again. I use Hi-Tec coating and found that after the final coat, some bullets had a slightly thicker coat.

[scattershot]

When I plunk test rounds are slightly above the hood


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That would indicate the bullet is stopping against the abrupt leade in the rifling. Seat the bullets a shade deeper and tryit again. Put an empty case in the chamber, and see where it stops. That’s what your loaded rounds should look like.

[Kraschenbirn]

Bill, I also powder coat but size after, shouldn’t the sizing afterwords make the small throat not a factor?

Nope, when you size after coating, you're only sizing the driving bands but you're leaving the taper of the ogive untouched. If your PC is on the 'thick' side the boolit nose may end up just an RCH larger than the entry of the leade...and therein lies the hang-up.

So far as my 'recipe', I'm loading the Lee TL356-124-TC, PC'd with Smoke's Clear, and sized .357 over 4.0 gr. 231. Functions just dandy in both my CW9 and my Sig 365XL.

Bill

[Codyrapoza]

Found a few that didn’t go to battery had a crimp of .383 it is supposed to be .380 maybe my die came loose.


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[Castaway]

I suspect the truncated nose and short overall length is the cause of your failure to feed. As the cartridge comes up from the magazine, there’s nothing to “guide” it in because the nose is bumping the top of the chamber, similar to an empty case would do.

[onelight]

Found a few that didn’t go to battery had a crimp of .383 it is supposed to be .380 maybe my die came loose.


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If those cases are the shorter of your batch the length is the problem with the amount of crimp you have set assuming you ran the full stroke on your press.
Adjust your crimp for those 3 and the next batch will probably all work.

[Codyrapoza]

Bill, what’s your OAL?


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[onelight]

The amount of crimp has nothing to do with OAL it's about the distance from the mouth of the case to the shell holder .
With the crimp die set the same , a short case will have less to no crimp if you set your die for a light crimp on a longer case , the OAL will not change. You have a bit of a compromise here a little heavier on the long case a little lighter crimp on the short .
When adjusting your die plunk test the first 10 or 15 and run your thumb over the crimp you will get a feel for the ones that don't have enough crimp if you want them all to work you have to set crimp for the short ones it you have a tight chamber.
Let me add with a separate crimp die you can adjust crimp with no change in OAL , if seating and crimping in the same die if you change the crimp you have to adjust seating depth back to where you want it.

[Codyrapoza]

I ask the OAL for his particular bullet because it’s the same as mine and he is also shooting the same pistol. The Truncated nose projectiles make a super short OAL and I thought this may be a problem for my particular gun.


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[onelight]

I ask the OAL for his particular bullet because it’s the same as mine and he is also shooting the same pistol. The Truncated nose projectiles make a super short OAL and I thought this may be a problem for my particular gun.

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Ah sorry , I explained stuff every one probably knows , it's hard to tell what experience some one has on a forum.

[Codyrapoza]

First I’d like to thank everyone’s comments, I learned from some of them. I made some test rounds today and measured the few that wouldn’t go into battery, .383. Like someone mentioned my die must have been set for a longer case so when a short one came through it didn’t crimp enough. I ran several bullets through the press and got it adjust so the longest is just a hair under .380. Using 231 I started with 3.8g then 3.9g then 4g all shot well. How do I know which powder load to use? Does this affect accuracy?


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[onelight]

Well if all are safe and you are not using them for hunting or defense and they all seem to be equally accurate you get to pick cause it makes no difference . I tend to pick toward the lighter load end for how I use that kind of ammunition . That's one of the great things about reloading you can tailor it to your skills and use.

[firewhenready7]

My guns don't feed well with TC boolits...Maybe it's just me

[fredj338]

I am trying to develop a load for a cast my neighbor has. I am new and this is my first endeavor. I am having all sorts of problems, using Rcbs 9mm-124-CN, I am using 231 @ 3.8 and 4.0g and have an OAL of 1.050 as per one of our reload manuals. This recipe does not function well in my Kahr CW9 it sometimes fails to feed or fails to go into battery. I have the case mouth crimping to .380 and this passes the plunk test. Wondering if lengthening the OAL may help? I’m exactly at what the manual wants me at. Is it the projectile? I’m considering a different mold since I haven’t had any failures with factory loads.


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So where did you find OAL for that exact bullet? Really, ignore the data in any manual on OAL UNLESS it is the exact bullet. So you have to find the correct OAL for our bullet & your gun. You can adjust OAL up or down & see if it helps feeding but if it fails to go into battery it's crimp or too long an OAL.
OAL has little affect on handgun accuracy IMO. Most of us cant out shoot our gear & ammo.

[gwpercle]

Bill, I also powder coat but size after, shouldn’t the sizing afterwords make the small throat not a factor?


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The 9mm luger with cast boolits is a stinker ... new guns have little of no throat ... the powder coated ogive of the boolit just makes it worse . I solved this problem buy using a 124 grain Truncated Cone cast boolit from NOE that is cut for a gas check , the gas check takes care of leading and I seat the boolit as deep as necessary so it will easily plunk in the chamber... Size .357 and lube with Lithi-Bee soft lube . ...usually deeper than the book call for . The newer the gun and the smaller the gun the less throat you will have .. chamber to rifled barrel forget any throat ... so seat them short I dont care what the book says ... Life will also be easier without the powder coating ... but deep seating may get you running . The boolit HAS to plunk in your guns chamber ... forget book OAL !
Gary