Help with new Lee two cavity

[VOLKSRVA]

Hello! First post here but a long time lurker!

I recently purchased a Lee 356-102-1R from midway and just got around to trying it out this weekend. This is not my first time using Lee aluminum molds, or even casting a light weight bullet, as I also have the 356-95-RF. Which always seems to cast beautifully for me when using the same rhythm and alloy. Which is straight clip on wheel weights. However this is my first RN style mold as I prefer the RF designs, which may be a contributing factor to my issues.

I am using a Lee pro 4-20 bottom pour and a full pot of alloy with a temp of 6 on the dial, and not pressure casting, with less than half an inch between the mold. I did not seem to get to the point where I had any frosted or “sandblasted” looking boolits. My first thought was that it could be a pouring issue, and I will need to increase the stream or decrease my distance from the pour spout? Or maybe it just wants to run at a hotter temp?

I started by degreasing the mold and lubing it up once it was hot and cast around 700 in one setting over the course of 2-3 hrs, and at the end found I had the highest rejection rate of any of my other molds! Out of the 700, I had around 70 rejects! Surprisingly all the bullets did fall out of the mold freely, most with just a turn of the wrist on a open mold, and with no handle tapping. I used a moderate pace, but I did allow the mold to cool once the sprue started to run and took longer than the usual 2 or 3 seconds to flash over and solidify.

I can’t help but notice how terrible midway packaged this order, it was in a plastic mailer with the box inside crushed on both ends! Shame on them! I thought for sure the mold was going to be beat to death with dents, upon inspection, it turns out it was not. I did find a small burr on the nose ends of both cavities as well as both sides of the mold blocks, which certainly shows as tiny imperfections on the nose of my final product.

I would like to try to give this mold a heavy dose of “lee menting” I just haven’t built up the courage yet as this would be my first try. Mainly I would like to find a way to get rid of that burr without changing the cavity dimensions. I took a random sample of bullets and measured them and had a large variance in weight as well as diameter of the band. Weight was 102.5-104 grains, with the heaviest being close to 105. While the diameter of the bottom band ranged from .3565 to just a touch under .358. After inspection all put through a .356 lee sizer and each one seemed to touch and get sized on the base end, however I did notice the slight variance in the pressure needed between them.

How can I get them more uniform? How can I get rid of the “swirl” marks sometimes found on the side above the band? This was one of the worst bases pictured, but what may be happening there? Are they still usable like that or should the bases like that example all be thrown in the reject pile too? Why is it that sometimes it looks as I am not getting good and sharp base fill-out, with the occasional rounded edge of the bottom band or even sometimes missing a little chunk of the base as pictured?

If anyone could look at my pictures and advise me on some of my issues I would be greatly appreciative! There are no casters local to me that I am aware of to bounce ideas off of or to gain insight! Maybe I am being a bit obsessive haha. But one can always learn and grow from mistakes.

Thank you!
-VOLKSRVA.


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[Cast_outlaw]

Well 70 of 700 is not a bad reject rate at least I don’t think. it dose looks like cool alloy and mold also did you smoke your cavity’s I find that often makes a difference with my many lee molds cast a few to heat it up smoke with a butane lighter then carry on

[Went2kck]

Add some tin or pewter to the mix.
This will help with the fillout.
I do think that is the problem.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd crank the heat up a little.
I don't trust the calibration on those knobs to be a good guide until ya get it set in the sweet spot for a given alloy.

I start off hot & dumping a big sprue, then when the boolits frost a little, turn it back down a bit until the look Chrome plated.

And everybody says use a Q-tip to put a dot of 2-stroke oil on the top of the mold where the sprue plate travels.

Also, don't be afraid of stirring the pot too much.
There's always a bit of dirt or something still trying to float up.

[Mk42gunner]

Is this the newer style two cavity Lee with alignment pins? Or the older style with grooves? Either style also needs a little bit of lube to prevent sticking. I have converted to using anti-seize compound on my Lee molds, it seems to work and a bottle should last about two lifetimes.

As for the burrs, a very sharp knife will trim aluminum. If you are careful, it can be done.

In the real world, I would shoot every one of the boolits you show.

Robert

[VOLKSRVA]

Hello all! Thanks for all of your replies!

Much info I hadn’t yet considered! The mold is a new model with the small triangular pins and not the alignment rods. Yes, the mold was lightly smoked, not black, but amber. They actually freely fall from the opened mold, probably the easiest of any of my collection so far. Which is why I was surprised by how many bullets I had to throw back. A part of me wants to weep when I have to throw back more than a handful after all the time and effort involved hahaha.

I used synthetic 2 stroke from Walmart applied on a qtip on the sprue, alignment pins, and top of the mold block when hot with two bullets in place so it would not seep into the cavity. I will certainly grab a bottle of anti-seize from the shop and try it the next time! Found myself reapplying lube probably another two or three times during the session, as at one time the sprue plate seemed to get tighter, and towards the end it became looser and was much easier to slide open with a wooden dowel. Is that a concern? Should I tighten the screw back to where it was, or just leave it be? I know it has left hand threads, but have never had much luck messing with those darn things in the aluminum block. Worried that it might strip the threads out and I don’t yet have a tap and die set. Is hand tight with a 1/4 ratchet sufficient?

How much tin/ pewter? Have always heard that any more than 1 or 2 percent would be a waste of valuable material so I have been saving it for long and heavy rifle bullets as I have never had fill out issues with the small 158 gr or less pistol I cast. Have been scouring the Goodwills around town for pewter for awhile now so I have a few random pieces. Should it be cut with snips and then weighed? Maybe cut out a couple 1oz slices to have handy with my alloy? Or should this be added when melting ignots over my large dutch oven set up? I usually run the pot until it is half full and then add more. I never allow it to run dry to help speed along the melt in my next casting session.

Happy to hear that both my rejects and reject rate aren’t too terrible! I guess I am being just a little picky. I am not much of a target shooter anyways, I just like to have a bunch of cheap 5-25 yard plinkers.

Thanks for all of your contributions as well as your time, I really appreciate all of it!
-VOLKSRVA.

[bruce381]

run hotter turn up dial and get a thermometer I cast lee molds at about 700 they cool fast and iron molds ate 670 or so an normally get a good rhythm going and they fallout shinney and cool frosty.

[gwpercle]

Add a little tin and / or move the setting to 7.50 and cast until frosting begins to show .
Dial back to 7.25 and keep casting ... when they get frosty all over dial back to 7.0 .
Nothing wrong with lightly frosted boolits ... that's where I get my best runs .

If you cast 700 boolits and had only 70 rejects ... that's not bad at all ... I think if you up the heat you would do better . At least that has been my experience with Lee Pots & Dials ... Start at 7.50 - dialing back to 7.0 as the frosting increases . Slightly frosty being the sweet spot ... This is where I get close to 100% good boolits . Sometimes I don't leave a big enough sprue puddle but that's my fault not the mould or pot or temperature .
Gary

[Doubles Shooter]

My Lee molds like to be hot. I run my pid controlled pot at 715. I pre-heat my molds to 450-475 on a hot plate. 25-1 pipe lead/tin. I rarely dump more than my first couple pours.
276080
I also don't smoke the cavities.

[Tatume]

Try shooting the rejects. You may be surprised.

[tankgunner59]

My Lee molds like it hot too, I use beeswax to lube the pivot point on my sprue plate. It doesn't cause any wrinkles in my pills. I have had problems with wrinkling from time to time and I have found it's because the mold isn't clean enough. At those times I use some break parts cleaner and it resolves the wrinkles. As far as fill out, I add a little tin to the mix and they fill out just fine.

[Mk42gunner]

As others have said, Lee mold like to be ran fast and hot (generally). This normally means mold temp, not alloy temp.

When mine are running correctly, I twist the sprue plate with a gloved hand to cut the sprue, glance at the bases to ensure good fillout and give the mold a shake to dump the new boolits, and keep going.

If things go right, I rarely have to strike the hinge bolt to get the boolits out of the mold.

Robert

[P Flados]

The little bullets from that mold make it harder to keep the mold hot.

Sunday, I ran a full 20# of lead through my old style Lee 356-102-1R mold (mine drop at 108 grs). Running a full 20 lbs through a two cavity at 108 gr per bullet is a chore so I wanted a fast pace. I was cutting the sprue the moment it went solid and then tried to get the bullets out, the mold closed and the next two poured about as fast as I could manage for a regular pace.

I started off at 710 degf on my PID. I found this combined with my fast pace got the mold a little too hot so I backed the temperature down to 700 degf. I kind of like running the lead a little too hot at first while watching the bullets pretty frequently. When the mold gets too hot, I back off just enough to get nice well filled out bullets.

FYI, if you are cutting the sprue as soon as it goes solid, you need to be a little more frequent with re-lubing the sprue cutter. I also cut the sprue using a push with my gloved right hand and I put a little upward pressure on the sprue plate as I do the cut to minimize contact pressure between the sprue plate and the top of the mold blocks.

[EMC45]

Run hotter - mold and melt. Cut sprue sooner. I like my bullets frosty. The targets and deer have never complained to me.....

[oley55]

My Lee molds like to be hot. I run my pid controlled pot at 715. I pre-heat my molds to 450-475 on a hot plate. 25-1 pipe lead/tin. I rarely dump more than my first couple pours.
276080
I also don't smoke the cavities.

Aren't those too pretty to powder coat?

[Doubles Shooter]

Still look good with PC.276149276150

[VOLKSRVA]

@ gwpercle

Thank you for the reference point of the lee dial. I will certainly give that a try the next time around and share my results!

[VOLKSRVA]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am gaining the confidence that I will be able to refine my process to get more consistency and even less rejects during the next casting session. Was starting to think heat may have been the issue.

Have any of you ever warped the Lee aluminum mold blocks? If that is even possible. That was my only concern with cranking the heat up more than where I was. I guess it is time to invest in a proper lead thermometer. I am now gathering the supplies to attempt to build a PID. With all the great info I have found on this board, I believe my electrical skills should be up to the task.

Thanks,
-VOLKSRVA.

[tward]

Yea,a pid is a great confidence builder. Gave my old 10 pound Lee bottom pour and a pid to a buddy who was using a cast iron pot and propane, what a difference! What are you shooting those Lee 102’s in? Tim

[VOLKSRVA]

@ tward

Planning on shooting them in a Ruger LCP 2 or Taurus in 380. May try a few of the larger of the bunch as cast for my 9mm and maybe even 38 spl. My assumption is they may be too short, as my experience with the Lee 356-95-RF. I will make up a few dummy rounds and see how the COAL turns out.

[P Flados]

I have good loads that work well for my Lee 356-102-1R in both 9mm and in 38 Sp. For the 9mm, I had to use PC, but for the 38s, tumble lube with BLL works fine.

My big batch that I just cast was actually for the "low recoil" 38s that make our light weight LCRx tolerable for my wife to shoot.

The PID is great. Being able to see your lead temp as you cast really helps. Do not worry about overheating this Lee mold by casting. You will start getting bullets that have defects (not filled out regions that have a very frosty surface) when your mold is too hot.

And keeping the sprue plate screw just tight enough to not back out is important.

[VOLKSRVA]

@ P FLADOS

Happy to see this mold has some promise. I love a good dual purpose mold. Current favorites have been the 358-125-RF as well as the 358-105-SWC. I highly recommend the later to you for powder puff 38 special! I shoot a lot of them in my 80’s S&W 64-4 for cheap fun!

Would you care to share your working COAL for 9mm and 38 when you have the time? Just to give me a reference for a starting point? I can’t even get in the reloading room as we are renovating the house and it has been packed full for a few weeks now.

[P Flados]

I also have the 358-125-RF in 2 cavity and the 356-120-TC in 6 cavity.

The 120 gets lots of use in our 9mm, 357 mag and 357 max guns (on the order of 2K per year). I tumble lube for 38 power level rounds in 357 mag cases, everything else gets PC. The 120s are loaded "full power" in the 9mm and in everything else they are mid range or less.

A big reason I use the 120 vs anything heavier is that I like going low on weight just to stretch my lead supply as far as possible while still getting adequate paper punching with 35 cal guns. I made the switch at a time when my lead supply was low enough that I was melting good "not needed now" bullets to make "I need them now" bullets. Shortly afterward I also bought a SP-101 in 327 Federal that will punch paper just fine with bullets as light as 55 gr.

The 125 has been relegated to no regular use. The deep square lube grooves on the 125 make casting slower (more tapping to get them to drop out) and it seemed like I had to be perfect on mold / lead temps to get nice fill out. I never seemed to be able to produce a big batch without a lot of rejects. I know it would be have better with more tin, but using a special alloy for a high volume plinker seemed out of place with my overall goals.

My "102" mold drops at 108 gr. For low recoil 38s, less weight is better (I also tried the 120 and 125) and I am happy with how I can crank out big batches from the 102 even though it is a 2 cavity. This is actually my oldest handgun mold and was originally bought for loading 380s for a friend (who I no longer shoot with). Again, at 108 gr per bullet this mold helps me get lots of bangs per pound of lead.

For my seating depth on the 102, I like to go just past (say 0.015" to 0.025") the point where the lube groove is in the case. I do about the same on my 120s in everything except 357 magnums. In 357 magnums, I have to seat the 120s a little deeper to keep the OAL from being too long for some of our revolvers.

[VOLKSRVA]

Thanks for the great info! I have wanted to try the 356-120-TC in a 6 cavity for awhile now, but you can’t find any molds in stock anywhere. Excited to hear good things about it. I tend to stay away from the TL designs as I would like the option to be able to lube them either way, which marks most of the 9mm designs off my wish list. Right now I am using only 2 cavity Lee molds. Would love to have another 358-125-RF if you want to get rid of it someday, if not, maybe a dose of “lee menting” would be in order to get her to drop freely. Mine doesn’t seem to have the issue that yours does, but has been well used as that was my first mold and it has had plenty casting sessions under its belt.

What alloy are you using, and what is the average weight the 120 is dropping for you? Currently I have only been using salvaged clip on wheel weights. But plan to cut it with some pure tape ons down the line in order to conserve my clip ons. They are getting harder and harder to come by now. Exide batteries has contracts with most the shops in my neck of the woods. Probably all going to Red China to be sold back to us at 2x the cost. Ha.

[P Flados]

At around 10.5 Bhn, my range lead (RL) is now my hardest "source material" that I can acquire in something resembling quantity. I got a couple of hundred lbs of boat keel from a local guy but was disappointed that it was only 6.5 Bhn or so. The boat keel was around $1.15 per lb. I also get occasional gifts of roofing lead.

Currently I am mixing for a hardness of around 8 Bhn for lower power stuff or using straight RL for higher power stuff. Lately I have even been trying some batches lower than 8 Bhn.

I agree with you on conserving any COWW that you have. My COWW source dried up around 6 years ago.

For my 120s, I really had no clue to their weight. I went & checked and found they run around 128 gr with my under 8 Bhn alloy.

[pastera]

Thanks for the great info! I have wanted to try the 356-120-TC in a 6 cavity for awhile now, but you can’t find any molds in stock anywhere. Excited to hear good things about it. I tend to stay away from the TL designs as I would like the option to be able to lube them either way, which marks most of the 9mm designs off my wish list. Right now I am using only 2 cavity Lee molds. Would love to have another 358-125-RF if you want to get rid of it someday, if not, maybe a dose of “lee menting” would be in order to get her to drop freely. Mine doesn’t seem to have the issue that yours does, but has been well used as that was my first mold and it has had plenty casting sessions under its belt.

What alloy are you using, and what is the average weight the 120 is dropping for you? Currently I have only been using salvaged clip on wheel weights. But plan to cut it with some pure tape ons down the line in order to conserve my clip ons. They are getting harder and harder to come by now. Exide batteries has contracts with most the shops in my neck of the woods. Probably all going to Red China to be sold back to us at 2x the cost. Ha.

Mine drop at 126g with 50/50 COWW and pure lead, but I removed the lube groove from the mold so mine are a few grains heavy

[VOLKSRVA]

Mine drop at 126g with 50/50 COWW and pure lead, but I removed the lube groove from the mold so mine are a few grains heavy

Forgive my ignorance. But why would you want to remove the lube grove? What does that do and how did you go about it?