303 Martini and 7383 powder

[Whole Bunches]

I have a VTC (WWI Volunteer Training Corps) marked 303 Martini. The VTC was a home guard in the U.K. during WWI. Did things like guard munitions and railroads. Basically until some units were issued P14's later in the war, they privately purchased or used what they had in firearms, such as carrying shotguns. The more affluent units might have all the same caliber and type of rifle. I've seem multiple photos of VTC units carrying Martini's. My Martini was made by the gunmaker William Ford of Birmingham.

So far, I've been unable to find exactly what the "D" stands for. Probably the British county or U.K. city the VTC unit was based in. Example: It could be Dublin, as that city had a VTC unit. The county of Durham had a large VTC presence. I've written Durham, but not answer so far.

Anyway, while I've successfully been using IMR4895 with the Lyman 314299 in a mild load (30.5gr) giving 1788fps and shooting to where the sights are aimed, I thought lets try this jug of 7383 that's been on hand for years. Loaded up 30, 31, 32, 33, and 34 grain loads. CCI 200, mixed brass, but mostly HXP, 3.08" oal. Only choreographed 1 shot with each load and got:

30gr 1479fps
31gr 1468fps
32gr 1595fps
33gr 1652fps
34gr 1718fps

No pressure signs and a few grains of powder left in the bore and fired case after each shot. I then fired groups with each of the 5 loads. At 34gr the bullets hit to the sights and grouped the best, so I stopped there. Quite the 7383 smell when you eject the fired case and the smoke blows right into your face. Also got the "what are you reloading with, it stinks" comment at the range this week. Anyway here's another use for 7383.

275779275780

[john.k]

Thats an interesting gun....appears to be shortened to 25" barrel,which was general type of spec for a VTC Martini.......there was also an official pattern sealed of a 25" barrel Martini,with a SMLE barrel,called the Pattern 1914 VTC (not to be confused with the other ,better known Pattern 14.).....Lots more pictures are called for.

[Boz330]

Thats an interesting gun....appears to be shortened to 25" barrel,which was general type of spec for a VTC Martini.......there was also an official pattern sealed of a 25" barrel Martini,with a SMLE barrel,called the Pattern 1914 VTC (not to be confused with the other ,better known Pattern 14.).....Lots more pictures are called for.

Didn't they use the SMLE fore stock as well complete with upper hand guard?

Bob

[Whole Bunches]

From muzzle to breech face, the bbl is between 25.2-25.25". In the VTC photos I've seen, in which there is enough detail on the Martini's to see them pretty good, they appear to have a bayonet lug and position that the P1888 bayonet ought to fit. Mine has a bayonet lug and position that more looks like a Martini-Henry lug. Both my bayonet lug and the front of the front sight have the number 358 stamped on them in the same font.

Proof marks on the bbl, visible when the top hand guard is removed, were used by Birmingham in the 1904-1925 time period. 303 Nitro Proofed.

Any further info would be appreciated. Would like to know what bayonet, if any, would fit.

PS. The bore is in excellent condition; not a spec of rust or corrosion. And, of course, my mild cast bullet loads have done it no harm or visible wear. I've fired it a little over 500 rounds now (NO J bullets). There is a small capital letter "F" stamped on the bottom edge of the receiver. A capital letter "E" is stamped inside at the bottom of the steel buttplate (I wonder if it's an old M-H buttplate). Breech block and receiver both have the Birmingham View proof mark. It was shipped to me as an antique in the 1990's, but from the proof marks I don't think it was really an antique. Importer is long deceased.

275810275811

[Whole Bunches]

FWIW

In the 1990's I contacted a Virginia based importer who was mainly importing and advertising .22 rifles from the U.K. Asked if he ever came across any 303 Martini's. Months later he said he'd found a nice one with a nice bore for me and would ship it direct to me as soon as it arrived in the U.S. I expected a British military Martini, but this is what arrived. It was neat in its own way, and I've never been disappointed in it. Every once and a while I try to find out more about it, but with little more success. About 5 years after I got it, I got tired of it and sold it (I know, I know!). A few weeks ago at my club I overheard a guy saying he was selling some rifles due to the decline in his vision. It was who I'd sold it to about 15 years ago. Yes he still had it, yes it was for sale...I bought it back for what I'd sold it for all those years ago. It came with my 303 British dies and loads I'd worked up for it. He'd only fired it about 25 rounds in all those years. I am happy, happy, happy.

One of the reasons I want to find out what the "D" stands for is that I hope to then obtain the hat or uniform patch/device that represented the same VTC unit or even a photo of the unit. Ebay has a few VTC pins/badges, but nothing beginning with a "D". Sometimes the "search" is almost as much reward as the "finding" of the item. Hope you enjoyed story.

[Texas by God]

I did enjoy the story and that is a neat rifle! It's so nice when one ( or more) come home.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[john.k]

What a marvellous story......The 25.2" was the SMLE barrel length ,and the idea of the guns was to have similar handling to a SMLE ....I would think the correct bayonet would be the Pattern 1887 ,which was used on some Martini Enfields where a bar was fitted......the Pattern 1887 is the bayonet made for the MkIV Martini Henry. (IMA sell them)

[TCLouis]

Thanks, this gives me some ideas for 7.7X58 since case capacity is about the same.

[BigEyeBob]

There was a carbine version ,I think it was called artillery carbine .Occasionally they turn up here in Australia , much shorter than the rifle version.

[Whole Bunches]

In my search for what the “D” on my stock indicates, I wrote Ian Skennerton, the prolific author and authority on U.K. military firearms. I got his reply today. Per page 132 of his new book on U.K. firearms markings, the D stands for Depot. He went on to comment on other stampings and their placement on my VTC Martini vs standard marking font size and placement on known issued VTC Martini’s. Bottom line: Mine was probably stored at an depot and not used by a unit. That could go with the nice condition of mine.

[MT Gianni]

Nice rifle. My brain finally clicked when I read the cartridge specs for the spotter cartridge 7383 was pulled from had a pressure of about 38,000 cup. That is right near the specs you're working with.