Perplexed about de priming brass...

[Lefty Red]

Got 1000 nickel plated +p 38 Special cases from a member on here a couple of weeks back. Mixed headstamped, RP or FC or WW. About 10-15% of the primers won’t come out, the tops are getting “popped” off.

I am using a Lee Universal Depriming Die. Switched to a RCBS carbide resizer/depriming die, same thing. Switched to a Lyman die, same thing. Even went to the Lee Whack A Mole setup and same thing. Four different dies and the same “popped” off primer tops. Speed was varied as well. Slow or fast, same results.

What’s deal? Ultra sealed primers due to being nickel and +p and hard to get out? Crappy primer material? WTH?

Lefty

[ReloaderFred]

Most likely the brass has gotten wet, or cleaned in citric acid. When the sides of the primer cups weld to the sides of the primer pockets, the bond is stronger than the brass the primer cup is made of. One of the worst is PMC brass, with the white primer residue. That stuff becomes super glue when it gets wet!

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Winger Ed.]

I've run into a little of that.

Making the primer punch pin as flat & dull as I could got a few more out that a nice rounded one,
but the cases that still tore off the top of the cup-- they're 'goners'.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Maybe 10-15% loss is acceptable if the deal was good enough. If not, you're faced with having to ream out the primer pockets, a real hassle, but you can probably save them.

DG

[Traffer]

It would be worth a try to deprime them with a hydraulic deprimer. Those are used for Berdan primers but no reason they can't be used on Boxer. You would have to make one or find someone to lend you theirs.

[Lefty Red]

Most likely the brass has gotten wet, or cleaned in citric acid. When the sides of the primer cups weld to the sides of the primer pockets, the bond is stronger than the brass the primer cup is made of. One of the worst is PMC brass, with the white primer residue. That stuff becomes super glue when it gets wet!

Hope this helps.

Fred

After seeing how clean the brass looks, that is the most likely what has happened. Thank you for the insight.

Lefty

[Lefty Red]

Maybe 10-15% loss is acceptable if the deal was good enough. If not, you're faced with having to ream out the primer pockets, a real hassle, but you can probably save them.

DG

It wasn’t, LOL. But live and learn.

[rbuck351]

I would try standing them upright and putting a couple drops of a good penetrating in each case and letting them set before trying to remove them. If ends of primer already popped, a good primer pocked reamer will work but would be more work than it's worth to me unless I had a lathe. I let a bunch of nickle 38spl cases get wet not knowing what would happen but I had enough that I just threw the ones that stuck. Hydraulic might work but it's more mess than it's worth to me.

[Mk42gunner]

Most likely the brass has gotten wet, or cleaned in citric acid. When the sides of the primer cups weld to the sides of the primer pockets, the bond is stronger than the brass the primer cup is made of. One of the worst is PMC brass, with the white primer residue. That stuff becomes super glue when it gets wet!

Hope this helps.

Fred
Bingo. Wet brass with primers get corroded.

Surprising just how little corrosion it takes to make primers more or less unremoveable.

Take heart, there is a solution. Soak them in penetrating oil, it doesn't take much. Last time I was messing with some stored outside 5.56 this happened. I used PB Blaster, but I think any thin oil would work.

Spray and let sit for a day, then they pop out easily. You do need to tumble clean afterwards, to remove to oily residue.

Robert

[Vegas Vince]

I had some old 50 BMG brass. 50 to 60 years old. Put a drop of Marvel mystery oil in them & let it set over night. Came out easy the next day.

[dverna]

I bet Kroil would work too.

[Lefty Red]

Cool, thanks for the options to correct this! Will soak the remaining 500 and try them in the morning.

[Bazoo]

I appreciate this conversation. Good stuff to know.

[Sam Sackett]

I picked up a bunch of "range brass" a while back. I was thinking indoor range, but I think it may have been an outdoor range. There were quite a few that had stuck primers like yours. I salvaged most of them after the deprime pin poked a hole in them without removing them. I used a sharp awl (watch you don't poke your hands). I wedged the tip of the awl in the punctured primer and levered out enough of the primer cap that I could grasp with needle nosed pliers. Once started, the old primers pulled right out. Then I cleaned the pocket and went on with recapping.

Just a thought....
Sam Sackett

[too many things]

would do the oil. auto trans is cheap Kroil is pricey but it works , clean the brass with Dawn and be sure to see there is no crud in the pockets

[rayh]

Mix the ATF with Acetone, 50/50. Fairly cheap too.

[Three44s]

Kroil

Three44s

[edp2k]

Happens mostly with nickel cases after they get wet and sit wet a while.
I'll bet kerosene would work fine as a penetrating oil; cheap too, and easier to clean/wash off.
after depriming, boiling in hot soapy water should get all the kero off.

[kevin c]

I wet tumble both nickel and regular brass with a citric acid and car wash solution, and haven't ever had a primer do that, though I do start with once and multifired brass freshly picked up from the range, rinse thoroughly and dry promptly (I don't think I've ever kept brass wet from cleaning for more than 48 hours). There's too much brass available on my range for me to salvage corroded looking or mud filled brass, so maybe that and my cleaning habits have been how I've avoided the issue despite the wet cleaning and citric acid.

[toallmy]

I have had the same thing happen with 38 special nickel although I'm not really sure if it was because I washed it with citrus acid and waited a while before removing the primer or it was just because of long term storage with the original primers left in the case .
I just excepted the loss after a little fighting with the primer rings left in the pocket tossing them in the end . I wish I had thought of the penetrating oil trick , let us know how it works .....

[dale2242]

I never wet tumble nickeled cases.
An hour in the vibratory tumbler with walnut shells cleans them nicely.
Any brass cases I wet tumble are deprimed first.
It`s an extra step but the clean primer pockets are worth it.

[wildwilly501]

I never wet tumble any brass with the primer in for this reason.I've bought once fired wet tumbled brass with the primers in and had the same problem not as big of %

[Lefty Red]

I always deprime ANY case before wet cleaning. But seems this seller does not. Live and learn.

I have to say, this is my first experience with wet tumbling/cleaning doing this. I forced myself to start and happy I have. Just will dry tumble my nickel stuff from now on. And make sure the seller does too! Thanks for the info.

Update: I stood up the remaining cases and sprayed them with WD40 last night. Seems to be working on the hundred I deprimed this morning. “Feels” right, so will do the rest later today.

Lefty

[ReloaderFred]

Yellow brass cases can have this same condition after getting wet. I've had it with both styles in the past.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[bedbugbilly]

I have also run into it before with range brass I've purchased - had some issues with the same as you have - nickel 38 spl but only a few of them - fortunately I got them cheap. Also had the problem with som 9mm I bought that had been wet tumbled with the primers in. i wet tumble with ss pins and use citric acid/dawn detergent/dab of paste wax but I always deprime my brass first. That doesn't help you out at this point, but it's a good thing to remember, deprime before tumbling.

[dverna]

Great thread. I have never wet tumbled but I have been buying some brass that has been "cleaned" that way so if I have a problem I now have a solution.

The solution to the problem is not to use a solution in the first place...LOL. Or not purchase brass that is wet tumbled with primers still in the cases. Good to know!!!

There was a thread where Reloader Fred suggested a link to get 20-40 corn cob for case cleaning and that has been working very well so I will stay with it. Clean primer pockets are not important to me as most of my reloads are pistol rounds off progressive presses. No way I will deprime as a separate operation for pistol reloads.

I have 4000 or so awful looking 5.56 brass that concerns me. I have tumbled half of it but need to see if the primers are corroded into the pockets as it may not be worth the effort to process them. I feel bad as I gave some to Lloyd and sold some to another member...hope they were not a PITA.

[onelight]

Some folks that sell brass include extras because for different reasons some are not useable I consider that to be a good practice and appreciate it.
I don't mind cleaning with the primer in on my vibrating tumbler but de-prime before cleaning wet.

[David2011]

I bet Kroil would work too.

That’s my recommendation, too. Best penetrating fluid ever IMO.

[edp2k]

I have never seen it CAUSED by the wet tumble.

Just because a few of the brass pieces that you wet tumbled (with the primer still in)
have sticky primers, and the outside round surface pops off before the primer walls get unstuck,
it doesn't necessarily mean that the wet tumble caused it.

My experience has been that it seems to depend on the primer brand and lot.
It seems some primers are weaker at the corner junction between the side and the bottom.
Maybe too soft, too brittle, that lot of material was lacking in "toughness"?
Seems nickel cases are more prone to this.

I have mostly seen it when picking up range brass that had "stewed" in the mud, water, crushed stone
"soup" for weeks/months/over-the-winter. The brass typically has some/lots-of surface corrosion/discoloration and probably
some chemical/electrolysis reaction going on between the case, the primer, and the environment/"soup" it soaked in.
I have wet tumbled brass that looked like the outside of an oyster and after uncorking the drum they look like
jewelry, tough to tell from new, and the primers pop out slick as anything.

So we need to be careful not indict wet tumbling as CAUSING this.
If you don't want to wet tumble, don't, just lets be clear about what is happening here.

[rondog]

Wow, guess I've been lucky! I've picked up and deprimed untold thousands of all kinds of range brass, and never noticed a problem like this. I hope I haven't sent out any in all the brass I've sold, but nobody's ever said anything to me.

Only brass I can recall doing that to me was a few pieces of old military .30-06.

[Walks]

I'm glad I wet tumble after I size/decap. Which is after dry tumble and case inspection.

[Lloyd Smale]

Great thread. I have never wet tumbled but I have been buying some brass that has been "cleaned" that way so if I have a problem I now have a solution.

The solution to the problem is not to use a solution in the first place...LOL. Or not purchase brass that is wet tumbled with primers still in the cases. Good to know!!!

There was a thread where Reloader Fred suggested a link to get 20-40 corn cob for case cleaning and that has been working very well so I will stay with it. Clean primer pockets are not important to me as most of my reloads are pistol rounds off progressive presses. No way I will deprime as a separate operation for pistol reloads.

I have 4000 or so awful looking 5.56 brass that concerns me. I have tumbled half of it but need to see if the primers are corroded into the pockets as it may not be worth the effort to process them. I feel bad as I gave some to Lloyd and sold some to another member...hope they were not a PITA.

they worked fine. Took about a 1/2 day to tumble them but didnt have any primer issues. They are all 300 ham'r brass today.

[Three44s]

I do not have the equipment to wet tumble, just dry, however I do not see an advantage to wet tumbling without first decapping.

In fact it seems like a disadvantage because the pocket and spent primer will not dry out with ordinary techniques.

Three44s

[jpamp]

Another vote for kroil. If kroil doesn’t do it, it’s probably not wort the effort.

[Winger Ed.]

Wow, guess I've been lucky! I've picked up and deprimed untold thousands of all kinds of range brass, .

You're lucky.
I've done that too, and of the several problem children, they've all been 5.56 with head stamps I didn't recognize.

So many off other head stamps didn't want to take a new primer, I de burr all the primer pocket edges of them.

[gwpercle]

Moisture !
Someone didn't dry their water cleaned brass completely or the brass was picked up off an outdoor range .
If you want to go to the trouble ... pry the remaining "ring of primer" out of the pocket with a small tool . If you do this be careful ... I used a ice pick to get behind and bend the primer ring in ... enough to grab it with a pair of small needle nosed pliers and pull the ring out .
Used a Primer Pocket Uniforming Tool to clean up and get the pocket ready for priming .
Be real careful with the ice pick ... don't hold the case in your hand ... a slip and the ice pick gets your hand... Ouch !!!
Gary

[Shawlerbrook]

Agreed, moisture. Could have been brass that was shot outside and sat on the ground for a while.

[Lefty Red]

This batch wash wet tumbled with the primer left in it. Only place it was dirty was the primer pocket.

I have personally picked up wet dirty range brass and NEVER had this hard of time de priming.

I went back and re tumbled and cleaned the primer pockets. Still crude, to the point the whole batch is probably shot. Not worth the effort.

Lefty

[Intel6]

I will add that this is what is called a "ringer" and as many have said it is caused by the cases getting wet. I worked at a commercial ammo reloader and we would get these but the case checking machine would catch them. We had a customer (LAPD) return a can (we used small galvanized trash cans) that had been out in the rain and we had lots of ringers out of that can.

I think it is the primer ash and possibly the minerals in the water that freeze the primer in the pocket. I have been wet cleaning my brass for a few years now and have never had a ringer as a result. I don't think wet cleaning is a guarantee of a ringer but it can be if the conditions are right.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lefty: try using a Small Arbor Press or Drill Press with a primer punch in it. That way you are pushing the primer out instead of punching it out.

A drop of Kroil on each one will take some time but will probably eliminate whatever is gluing the primers in place.

Another way would be to heat the case head with a Butane Torch then push the primer out.

Buy the Bisley!

Randy

[VariableRecall]

In my reloading efforts so far, I have deprimed before wet-cleaning my brass. Most of the gross stuff is in the primer, so keeping them out of my wet cleaning kit (Just a 1qt mason jar) is a good idea.

I spurt in a little Hornady One Shot in the quart bag that I picked up the brass in, shake it around a bit, then size/deprime.

After I collect the spent primers, I dump them into the mason jar with hot water and citric acid and shake it around a ton until my arms get tired. Then, I re-fill the container with just water, shake some more, drain, and dry them overnight.

That has worked quite well for me so far.

[David2011]

Agreed, moisture. Could have been brass that was shot outside and sat on the ground for a while.

Maybe. About 10 years ago I bought 3000 pieces of mil surp 5.56. They had clearly laid out in the weather a long time as it all had a dark brown patina but none of the primers were stuck.