Let's Talk About Duel Wielding

[Taterhead]

I have been casting for nearly 5 years now and can say I'm getting the hang of it.

I'd like to explore casting with 2 molds simultaneously. But the precise sequence of steps is unclear to me. I've dabbled a bit but not sure I'm happy with the sequence.

After mulling further, here is what I'm thinking, but your experiences would be valuable.

Assuming preheated molds

Pour into mold 1.
Let sprue freeze and open sprue plate
Set mold 1 down.

Pour into mold 2
Let sprue freeze and open sprue plate.
Set mold 2 down.

Dump bullets from 1
Refill mold 1
Cut sprues
Set 1 down.

Dump 2 and refill.

Is that how you do it?

[Hossfly]

Yep that is pretty much how it goes just git into a rhythm.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Yep that is pretty much how it goes just git into a rhythm.

I do what you are doing, except I don't open the spruce cutter on the molds until I have filled the second leaving the spruce closed set it down pick up the first mold by this time it is ready to open the sprue cutter dump the boolits refill set it down and go to the second mold and repeat as fast as you can, just set a pace that suits you but don't take too long.

[tankgunner59]

I do it the same way as 45-70 Chevroner. Once you get used to the rhythm you set it's pretty simple. Just remember as with all reloading, do it when and where you can avoid distractions. I always melt and cast in our backyard, and my family knows not to come out and interrupt me so I don't make a mistake. When I'm home alone I take my phone out with me, but I don't answer it, I get to a good stopping point and check and call back if necessary. When someone else is home I don't bring it out. Keep it safe.

[AlHunt]

I've futzed with it a couple of times and the only way it makes sense is if you're filling the second mold while the sprue is freezing on the first one. Possibly it'd make sense if your molds are so hot you need that lag time between pours.

Otherwise, why set the mold down once you've popped the sprue? It just creates more hand motions and takes time you'd spend filling the mold again. Running 2 molds gives you fewer cycles per minute, hour or however you want to measure it.

To me, from a production standpoint, it seems less efficient than using mold 1 until you have all the bullets you want, then going to mold 2, which you've had warming on top of the pot.

[Mk42gunner]

I've done it much as 45-70 Chevroner does, but I also tend to think as AlHunt; I think I can make more good boolits by using one mold and keeping it in my left hand all the time.

When everything is going just right, by the time I have either let go of the fill valve or set the ladle down, the sprue is ready to cut. Dump the boolits and refill the mold. Rinse and repeat until you need to add alloy or you have enough of that particular boolit.

Robert

[Taterhead]

I appreciate the input so far.

Where I find that using two molds might increase production is when the molds get hot and sprues take time to freeze and bullets take longer to want to release. I see that lag time as potential to put another mold to use.

I'm going to play with cadence some more and see what works or doesn't, or abandon the idea altogether.

I should have mentioned above that I cast with a Pro Melt bottom pour.

[Texas by God]

I use three Lee two cavity moulds in tandem. I fill one, set it down, fill the next one, set it down, fill the third, set it down. Left to right. I knock the sprue and dump the bullets from the first one, then refill it. And continue on until the pot is empty. I run the bottom pour pot at near max heat. Works for me. I reject the first two casts into the sprue pile till the moulds heat up- even if the bullets look good. Sometimes I only use two moulds, but the process is the same.

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[curiousgeorge]

When using 2 molds (or sometimes 3), I have them all heating on top of pot while it's coming up to temperature. Start with one and cast until bullets get too frosty or sprues are taking too long to harden. Put back on top of pot and start with next mold. One or two casts and it's up to speed. Cast until conditions are as described in using first mold, then on to #3 mold or back to mold #1. And by having a second pot heating while you are using the first, you can run through a lot of lead in a short period of time. Throw the sprues back into pot #1 along with more ingots and let it melt while emptying pot #2. Back and forth, from mold to mold and pot to pot.

[Mal Paso]

I used to run 2 4c 429421s like 45-70 Chevroner, the fact they were iron and held heat well helped.

Now I run more aluminum and brass and don't let go of the mold til the pot's empty. I also run about 700F, 2 molds I ran 750F.

[country gent]

Casting with 2 moulds can be a big time saver at times. Big bullets 2 or more cavities. Filling one while the other is cooling.
Things to do look for when setting up for this.

1) pre heat moulds on top of the pot or hotplate I do top of pot.
2) figure out yours placement handling so as little movement as possible is required. This makes it easier in you. Have handles of moulds and tapper where they can be reached
easily with as little movement as possible.
a) remember moulds will be handled with one hand tapper and ladles with the other.
3) Set catch pad up in several separate layers. 5-6 hand bar towels works great in a paint roller try. When you get a pile of bullets pick up the 4 corners f the top towel and set aside, this fast and easy also saves dings on bullets dropping while hot and soft.
4 keep a few ingots preheating to make filling pot quicker. If your using a hotplate set them on it and a cover let them warm to same temp as moulds, add ingots often. On a 20 lb pot 2-4 lbs come back up quick and maintain am even head pressure.
5) either or here use 2 identical moulds so sorting isnt required. or 2 very dissimilar bullets to make sorting easier. You would be surprised how close a 40 cal 400 grn and a 500 grn 45 look in a pile.

Here is my basic cadence for 360-550 grn bullets in 2 cavity moulds.

Fill pot and fire up burner. set moulds on warming plate. When pot starts to show molten around edges turn down to temp setting. And bring up to temp. ( my casting pot is 120 lbs and gas fired, takes about 15 mins to get to temp).

Flux Twice with wax and sawdust. Warm ladle up in pot.

While pot is heating up I set up everything I may need paint roller tray, small dead blow mallet ( my mould tapper ). get the PPE on that still needs to go on.

I then make a couple pours thru the ladle back into the pot. If it seems sluggish I put a little wax on it work it around and a couple more pours.

Now pick up mould 1 and fill both cavities pouring as big a sprue as possible or over pouring

Sit down on plate

Pickk up and fill mould 2. and set down.

Pick up 1 and tapper cut sprues over the sprue pan. ( I dont add sprues back until I flux or am done)

Fill 1 as above and repeat this

I throw the first 8-10 drops in the sprue pan. Just on general principle.

Cast until the top towel is has a layer where bullets arnt hitting and gently push down to bottom with the flux spoon or tapper. You dont want these still "soft bullets hitting each other.

When the towel gets full pick up by the four corners and set on floor or stand out of the way. This and adding ingots should be your biggest movements.

My moulds all have vented sprue plates so I use the over pour method, I hang the mould over pot rim and pour a full ladle letting excess run back into pot. This keeps the base sprue hot and molten longer helping fill out and off gassing. On my sprues there is a definite hollow where allow pulled in cooling.

Ill cast for 4-5 hours using 2 moulds together and 4 total. Ill switch at some point depending on what I need. Ill end up with 500-600 bullets all with in .5 grn after sorting the few visuals out.

[Walks]

You are wasting time by waiting for the 1st sprue to harden, and then cutting the sprue.
Setting down the mold then is just added motion, wasted motion.
Fill 1st mold, set it down.
Fill 2nd mold, set it down.
Pick up 1st mold, cut sprue and dump bullets. Refill 1st mold, set it down.
Pick up 2nd mold, cut sprue and dump bullets. Refill 2nd mold, set it down.

Rinse, repeat

[vagrantviking]

If it's taking so long for the sprue to harden that you have time to work a second mold I would be scared to release the pressure on the handles setting it down. That would upset the bullet as it's hardening and lead to variation in diameter etc.

Was casting this afternoon at 800° getting rid of some slightly contaminated alloy doing little 25-20 bullets. Even at that temperature by the time I let go the valve to pickup the rapper the sprues were hard. Same for every mold I've used between 55gr and 550gr.

Really have trouble visualizing a way that using 2 molds would increase productivity and not affect the quality.

[Rcmaveric]

I have had the best results using two molds in the Lee flavor. The bigger NOE molds mess up my tempo by holding hear longer.

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[Taterhead]

Country Gent, thank you for the detailed explanation of the process. That was very understandable and a good read.

Walks, I think you're right about additional steps. What I haven't sorted in my mind is timing. If I set mold down and work on the second, I think about the nub that might be formed on the base if I didn't cut the sprue in time. There is that sweet spot that I can visualize between too soon and too late. It is a narrow moment of time. But I'm not sure if I'm quick enough to cut block 2 sprues, dump and refill before the sprue on block 1 has frozen and cut with a nub. That was my experience when dabbling prior. Might need more heat in the sprue plate, bigger puddle, hotter melt or a combo.

Things to ponder.

[kevin c]

What I did for two identical molds, looking to increase production, was to think that in the time I took to completely cycle one mold by itself I would need to find to do everything to cycle the second mold. If there wasn't enough time for everything I'd have to lengthen the cycle, and would also have to adjust sprue puddle size, time from pour to sprue cutting, or other factors to maintain mold temp.

It worked, but I've mostly gone back to one eight cavity mold with which, using a feeder pot over my bottom pour, I can produce about 2500 keepers in a three hour session.

[AlHunt]

What I did for two identical molds, looking to increase production, was to think that in the time I took to completely cycle one mold by itself I would need to find to do everything to cycle the second mold. If there wasn't enough time for everything I'd have to lengthen the cycle, and would also have to adjust sprue puddle size, time from pour to sprue cutting, or other factors to maintain mold temp.

It worked, but I've mostly gone back to one eight cavity mold with which, using a feeder pot over my bottom pour, I can produce about 2500 keepers in a three hour session.

That's similar to what I've found. With a 6 cavity mold, I can produce 500 to 600 bullets an hour at a reasonably leisurely pace. 2 or 3 hours at the casting pot is quite enough for me.

[Bookworm]

That's similar to what I've found. With a 6 cavity mold, I can produce 500 to 600 bullets an hour at a reasonably leisurely pace. 2 or 3 hours at the casting pot is quite enough for me.

I agree. 3 hours is about max for me.

I know guys that tell me about 10-12 hour casting sessions, and just shake my head. Patience like that isn't my strong suit.

[farmerjim]

I do it like 45-70 Chevroner. I run 2 6 cavity lee 358-125-RF molds. They are preheated on a hotplate. Lead ingots are also preheated to near melting. If my cadence is broken, the molds go back on the hotplate. I can cast about 900 per hour. After casting about 2,000 boolits, my pot will still be full of lead. If you keep the pot full there is only about a 15 deg drop in temp when you add a pound of lead.

[high standard 40]

I've futzed with it a couple of times and the only way it makes sense is if you're filling the second mold while the sprue is freezing on the first one. Possibly it'd make sense if your molds are so hot you need that lag time between pours.

Otherwise, why set the mold down once you've popped the sprue? It just creates more hand motions and takes time you'd spend filling the mold again. Running 2 molds gives you fewer cycles per minute, hour or however you want to measure it.

To me, from a production standpoint, it seems less efficient than using mold 1 until you have all the bullets you want, then going to mold 2, which you've had warming on top of the pot.

I agree. I don't see any advantage to using two molds at once, at least from a production standpoint. It seems to me that you can accomplish a higher volume using one mold at a time.

[farmerjim]

I up my production by 30% with 2 6 cavity molds used together. It does take practice and coordination. One constant flow of motion where you are never not doing something.

[Conditor22]

I've done up to 5 molds at once, normally it's just 2 or 3.
2 cavity molds for large boolits (45/70, 430x310, etc.) take a long time to cool.

using a hotplate to get all the molds up to casting temperature is important


https://i.imgur.com/NpI57yk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9aYojyg.jpg

[WebMonkey]

i'll fill a mold 4 or 5 times then set it on top of the pot.
grab the 'other' mold off the top of the pot and fill/drop 4 or 5 times.

repeat.

that's only when i feel like producing for more than one cartridge at any one time since i don't have two molds for the same cartridge.

i've NO problems with anyone else's methods.

i'm so small time i've never been pressed for production time.

:)

[reddog81]

To me, from a production standpoint, it seems less efficient than using mold 1 until you have all the bullets you want, then going to mold 2, which you've had warming on top of the pot.


This is what I do. I've tried 2 molds, but switching between them just creates inefficiencies. If I have to wait 2 or 3 seconds for a sprue plate to cool it still saves times versus juggling molds. It's also much easier to get into a rhythm with one mold versus multiple.

[CoolHandMoss]

I didn't read all the posts so this has probably been said, but to the OP I just wanted to point out that if you are double molding it to manage heat, you can keep the molds cooler by dropping the boolets from mold 1, then casting and dropping mold 2, then back to mold one. Leaving the boolits in keeps transferring more heat into the mold.

[gwpercle]

Here is my way ...
Everything is hot and moulds are pre- heated . Filling a mould includes leaving a generous sprue .

Fill mould #1 , set it down to cool.

While #1 cools , fill mould #2 , set it down to cool .

Pick up mould #1 , open sprue plate , dump boolits and refill mould , set down to cool

Pick up mould #2 , open sprue plate , dump boolits and refill mould , set down to cool

Keep repeating ... what I'm doing is letting the first mould cool and harden while filling the second mould . This works well with iron/steel or any moulds that tend to hold their heat a long time ,
Moulds that have small aluminum blocks and cool fast might not need to be cast like this .
But by using the two mould casting method you can keep a fast pace and not smear uncooled lead on the underside of the sprue plate ...
Gary

[AlHunt]

Here is my way ...
Everything is hot and moulds are pre- heated . Filling a mould includes leaving a generous sprue .

Fill mould #1 , set it down to cool.

While #1 cools , fill mould #2 , set it down to cool .

Pick up mould #1 , open sprue plate , dump boolits and refill mould , set down to cool

Pick up mould #2 , open sprue plate , dump boolits and refill mould , set down to cool

Keep repeating ... what I'm doing is letting the first mould cool and harden while filling the second mould . This works well with iron/steel or any moulds that tend to hold their heat a long time ,
Moulds that have small aluminum blocks and cool fast might not need to be cast like this .
But by using the two mould casting method you can keep a fast pace and not smear uncooled lead on the underside of the sprue plate ...
Gary

Part of what I found was that the sprues were getting too hard in the time it took to get back to it, if I employed your method. I can see where iron or brass molds might have made a difference.

In the end, 5 or 6 hundred leisurely bullets an hour is plenty for me. Ive seen a video or two of people wrangling multiple molds and it's just more frantic than I care to cast.

[country gent]

When you get into the big bullet there is a bigger time lag between solidify and solid thru. While the sprue may be solid the bullet is still hot and soft enough to be damaged hitting other bullets I also think the added "soak" time keeps the mould at a more even temp thru it. Its amazing what small changes can do when casting. A vented sprue plate can make a big difference in fill and consistency. Same with slightly modified vent lines or adding one to the top of the blocks with a fine stone. A small change in temp, fluxing. fill speed, cadence.

I opened up the spout holes on my rcbs and lyman ladles from .187 to .205 with a chamfer added to the inside. made a big difference. My rowel ladle #1 appears to have a spout opening of 1/4" ( hard to tell as its triangular shaped) Ive also modified a rcbs ladle to 2 spouts on the same center line as my moulds, fills both cavities at the same time. Havent gave it a good try out yet.

Experiment with different things and see what works for you with you equipment and set up, what works for me may not work for you.

[robg]

i cast with 2 cavity molds, 2 or 3 at a time .fill mold 1 put aside ,fill mold 2 put aside, fill mold 3.cut sprue om 1st mold drop boolits refill mold put aside cut sprue on 2nd mold drop bollits repeat.i run pot hot so by the time 2nd or 3rd is put down the 1st is cooled enough .lets you cast fast without having to wait for lead to cool so you can cut sprue.

[rbuck351]

I cast with only one mold at a time and cut the sprue with a gloved hand. I have a small fan that I direct close but not on the pot. When the boolits start to frost I open the mold in front of the fan. If the mold still gets too hot I redirect the fan to blow at the drop spout so the mold has a longer time in front of the fan. By opening the sprue plate by hand it is easy to tell when it is too hot or too cold and readjust the fan. This way there is no setting anything down and picking up something else and I can keep running a mold as long as I want. It speeds up the sprue hardening as well. YMMV

[Mike W1]

Lots of ways to do. My way works for ME. Only cast for handguns anymore but sometimes with 2 moulds, sometimes just one. Depends on what I need. No need to count cadence. Fill the mould and it's placed on the shelf which has the cooling fan above. With 2 in play fill the second, pick up the first and do the usual with it and refill. ETC. If going with 1 mould I'll let it sit there a couple seconds or so on the shelf and then the usual again.

Why I think it works without a bunch of extra hooraws. My everything's are PID controlled so they're repeatable. The hotplate is set to have the mould at casting temperature that I long since measured. First bullet is gonna be good. Weights have been checked numerous times before. If it looks good after the sprue is cut it's gonna be a good bullet! Have poured enough of them over the years to know if it doesn't look good it was because I screwed up the flowl I pour into the cavity without touching the sprue plate. The little fan keeps that plate from being overly hot so when I cut the sprue the base is flat. When using 2 moulds there is no wait time between doing something but with 1 mould a bit of a lag that extra few seconds ensure flat bases. If per chance the "feel" of cutting the sprue seems a little lighter I can "adjust" that in subsequent cycles. Generally not been a problem there at all. I EXPECT good bullets with each cycle and feel confident observing the cut bases still in the mould takes care of my inspection of them.

Everything in my equipment has been geared towards being as efficient as I can be. I might add that I only own DC moulds and how I do things may or may or may not work for larger moulds. Feel I get about as much production out of DC as one could hope for. I can't think of a single thing that I do that was originally thought of by myself. Ideas came either out of books or from forums like this one.

275497

[plainsman456]

I set both molds on top of the melting pot.

When things are ready i fill one mold,set it down on my metal bench then fill the other mold,set it down,open the first mold and refill then the same goes on and on and on.

It makes 11 lbs of melt go fast and you wind up with a pile of boolits.

When the pot needs filling i set ingots on top of the pot while still casting a few more times,then put them in the pot and the molds go back on top of the pot.

Once you get the hang of it it is easy.

I usually do 9mm and 38/357 at the same time.121 and 158 grain.

If you are doing heavier it still works the same.

[Jim22]

A bit off topic but maybe not worth a separate thread: Something I have started doing once the mould is up to temp and the sprues are taking a while is to fill the mould, then while the sprue is wet, drop the mould down onto a hard surface like you're trying to get the bubbles out. I think it fills the mould more completely and the impact helps harden the sprue. I also keep a piece of steel plate below the furnace to rest the cooling mould on - especially with aluminum moulds. Seems it cools the mould a little. I don't need to wait so long for the sprue to freeze.