.45acp Mags for SWC

[metricmonkeywrench]

I was reading and article I found on line by Mr Ayoob (all hail Massad) concerning 1911 magazines for the 1911 45 ACP. It was the usual type stuff, ie Wilson combat yes, USG issue no for serious work.
Hopefully this post does not break down into what is the best 1911 Mag discussion, there is plenty of opinions and documentation on that topic already.

My request for information is quite specific and centered around magazine’s for the 1911 45 ACP to shoot SWC bullets.

One section caught my eye though:
“It came with magazines I hadn’t seen before, their lips flared toward the front instead of tapered. Shooters with more experience than I had learned that GI spec magazines designed for 230-grain round-nose Full Metal Jacket weren’t 100% with the semi-wadcutter match loads used in bulls-eye matches. The same would turn out to be true with the jacketed hollow points that were only then coming into popularity.”


Unfortunately the article did not include a picture of what he is describing. Does anyone have a picture of the two styles of magazines?

I now have moulds for both the 200g SWC and 220g RN bullets and Ill eventually (when they hit the shelves again) pick up some FMJ and/or plated. I am still going thru the teething pains of new gun (Springfield w/factory mags) and loads in a caliber I have no experience in loading for. I also have yet to amass the apparently mandatory homer bucket full of magazines to fiddle with. My first 2 outings were less than stellar, I went straight to cast boolits (no factory anything on the shelf), the 200g Lyman SWC (-460) mould did fairly well but jammed up a couple of times, the LEE 200g SWC with the same powder load was horrible and jammed up randomly at least once a magazine both were very accurate with no leading though.

[derek45]

the classic 200gr SWC feeds best from a ***tuned*** 1911

Wilson Combat and CMC mags work well

overall length is a bit critical

once dialed in, they run like a top, shoot accurately and cut nice holes in targets

[RKJ]

I’m using Wilson’s, Mec-gar and Promag and they shoot SWC,s just fine in my GM and Officers Model 1911’s

[Winger Ed.]

I've got different magazines I found, and grabbed when they were cheap,
from everywhere-- except pulling some out of the trash. They're a mix of everything, young and old.

I load that RCBS 195 SWC short, little, stubby looking thing that has a reputation for being the most problematic for feeding.

I've never had a magazine or feeding problem with my Colt after I polished the feed ramp
and top of the chamber to a high gloss, mirror like shine.
Hardball or the match 200TCWC will chamber by throwing them at it from across the room,
and if the powder charge is strong enough to cycle it even with a light spring,
those short, flat faced, little 195s go right in now too.

[gnostic]

I've shot buckets of 45acp's with 185 and 200 grain bullets with mixed no name mags without notice out of at least half a dozen different 1911's. I didn't know you need special mags for wadcutters....

[NuJudge]

There are three main feed lip designs for 1911 magazines: GI tapered, wadcutter, and something in-between that Colt developed long ago called the Hybrid. Here's an article with a picture of all 3:
https://rangehot.com/1911-magazine-design-wadcutter-magazine/

My experience with 1911 pistols is that your pistol, for a particular ammo, has to like not just the magazine feedlip design, but the follower also. Buy one magazine, and see if your pistol likes it with a particular ammo.

[gnoahhh]

I've shot buckets of 45acp's with 185 and 200 grain bullets with mixed no name mags without notice out of at least half a dozen different 1911's. I didn't know you need special mags for wadcutters....

That's been my experience too. I have around a dozen magazines I feed a Series 70 Gold Cup and WWI Colt 1911 (yes I shoot it regularly, it was arsenal reworked at least once in its life) - with a mix of everything from WWI & WWII vintage gov't issue, to Colt factory, and no-name aftermarket. So help me I've never had an issue feeding both 185 and 200 SWC's (out of original H&G gang moulds, #130 and #65 respectively). I shoot without reading much about what should or shouldn't work in 1911's.

[Laguna Freak]

Haven’t shot any swc but my Les Baer with both Baer and Chip McCormick mags feeds wide meplat 230 grain Federal Ammunition hollow points flawlessly. Hard for me to imagine having a problem with any swc. Tried to load a picture but I’m not in the mood to resize the image.

[johniv]

I’ve had no trouble feeding 452460 or 452488 with any of the mixed bag of mags I have. My guns even run the 452423, with no issues.

[376Steyr]

Here is a good picture: https://checkmatemagazines.com/faq/

[hondo1892]

I've owned two Colt 1911's and one Ruger 1911. I have the Lyman 200 gr SWC mold and it shoots fine in the Colts as long as load is strong enough for the spring. The Ruger was more fussy about what it would shoot. Like others I use a bunch of different makers mags. Some have the tapered lips some have the straight lips like Wilson Combats have. My Colts would shoot anything I loaded in any mag I used. The Ruger wouldn't. My conclusion is if the pistol is tuned right it will handle just about anything you can feed it. Some 1911's are tuned for one specific round and will only run well with that round.

[Walks]

My Colts & Springfield are not picky.
I use old Mags from Randall for most of my shooting. They even feed the stubby WC's that I cast for my Really Light target loads.
As long as they are well made they work.
Even Colt Factory mags from the 1990's.

[stubshaft]

Back when I shot IPSC I used shooting star mags and had no problems with SWC's, but regular mags gave me no problems either.

[Burnt Fingers]

I've shot buckets of 45acp's with 185 and 200 grain bullets with mixed no name mags without notice out of at least half a dozen different 1911's. I didn't know you need special mags for wadcutters....

I quit numbering my 1911 mags when I hit #75. I still had at least another 50 or so. The detritus of owning and shooting the 1911 for over 40 years. BTW, that's just the 45 ACP mags, the 9mm and 10mm mags use a different numbering sequence.

Other than my Springfield TRP I'm confident that I can grab a random mag and one of my 1911 pistols and shoot wadcutters out of it all day long.

My TRP has one type of mag it doesn't like. Those mags are locked in a ammo can away from the working mags.

I've cast and shot well over a dozen 155,175, 180, 185, 190, 200, 210, and 215 grain SWC boolits.

The 155 is the hardest one to get reliable feeding out of. My current favorites are the RCBS 201-KT and the Lyman 452630. I like a little longer nose on my boolit.

[oldsalt444]

I don't understand all the hoopla about GI mags being less than stellar. I've been using them for decades with complete reliability. The secret is you have to change the flat follower to a rounded follower. Get the ones that have vertical support on both ends. It will keep the rounds in proper alignment for reliable feeding. And yes, I shoot SWC boolits almost exclusively.

https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_620000003_1.jpg

[gwpercle]

What ever design the Mec-Gar 1911 - 45 acp magazines ( 7 round) uses they will feed wadcutter boolits .
I cast the Lyman 452460 200 grain SWC and shot it in competition for decades and they have always performed perfectly .
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

One section caught my eye though:
“It came with magazines I hadn’t seen before, their lips flared toward the front instead of tapered. Shooters with more experience than I had learned that GI spec magazines designed for 230-grain round-nose Full Metal Jacket weren’t 100% with the semi-wadcutter match loads used in bulls-eye matches. The same would turn out to be true with the jacketed hollow points that were only then coming into popularity.”



https://checkmatemagazines.com/faq/

The Wadcutter Feed Lip is the solution to the frustrating problem for shooting shorter rounds. While it does help prevent the jamming that can occur when shooting the smaller hollow point or wadcutter rounds in the GI Feed Lip, the downside is that traditional ball ammo loses its true controlled feed.

As you can see by most of the replies, 1911 Magazines with The Wadcutter Feed Lip is a solution looking for a problem. But since you seemingly have a problem, it seems like this is the solution.
That's my 2¢

PS, I bought some of the Checkmate Mags with Wadcutter Feed Lips and use them with SWC ammo and they work great. Checkmate Mag quality is excellent. The best price I've found for them is Thunder Mountain Custom.
https://shop.1911parts.com/

[nicholst55]

Most current production mags will feed wadcutters in most currently manufactured 1911 pistols. If you have an issue, you probably need to throat the barrel and feed ramp. If that is not the issue, then different mags may help. FWIW, I used to shoot my own WC reloads through a standard USGI M1911A1 pistol - with modified mags - back in the early 80s. I did polish the feed ramp first, but no other mods were performed. You can modify the magazine lips yourself with this tool, available from PT&G, Midway, etc.

https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/721/721582.jpg

Or you can buy mags with lips modified as described here:

https://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/P08B030002atxt.jpg

If you buy the tool to mod your own mags, be aware that some mag feed lips will crack when modified. The Army used to do this for their M1911A1 National Match pistols back in the day. I have had some mags lips crack when performing this mod, and the finished mags don't always feed very well. IMHO, you're time and money ahead by buying mags manufactured this way. If you perform a search here on the forum, this has been discussed at length in the past.

Kuhnhausen also briefly discussed this on Pg. 182 of his 1911 Pistols Shop Manual, Vol. II. He states that it makes no financial sense to try to modify your own mags in today's world.

[44MAG#1]

This proves, probably for the 100,000th to 200,000th time, to not take, regardless who writes it, speaks it or conveys in any method, as fact. No not anyone.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Update, Based on the posts with the requested pictures I seem to have a version of the wadcutter magazines. Not sure who makes the magazines for Springfield these days.

Today was a new day on the range. Finally got my hands on a new shiny box of 230g FMJ. The Springer munched thru the box with no issues. The second box was the same Lyman 460 bullet loaded over Red Dot this time. The box ran well with no issues but seemed rather sooty. The next box was loaded with W231, seemed to be about as hot as the factory, but had a few jams along the way.

Interesting and fun... got plenty of powders to try and eventually will find my load and build up the mandatory bucket of magazines.

Thanks all for the input.

[35remington]

I would be greatly surprised if any reasonably set up or factory 1911 of any sort really needed to be “throated” or “polished.” Pretty much all come that way as purchased now and need nothing in that regard. Misapplied “polishing” has caused more problems than it has cured most likely.

If you don’t understand how the gun works, think twice about polishing anything.

GI magazines will, in fact, run with a wider variety of ammo types than ball, to include rounded ogive hollowpoints and HG 68 clones. They will not run with short OAL button nosed target semi wadcutter.

A rule for getting along with a 1911 is do not feed it whatever you can dream up, feed it what it feeds well. In short, this is a longer overall length round with a rounded ogive and a rounded meplat edge if it has one.

JMB knew what straight lip magazines were. In designing a magazine for the 1911, he bypassed a straight lip design for a tapered lip design.

With apologies for my thumbs in the photo, here is a photo of what a tapered lip design does that a straight lip design does not....e.g., provides a less angled approach to the chamber, and a smoother and potentially more reliable feeding path for most 1911’s. The photo shows a round in a tapered lip magazine rises as it goes forward while a straight lip design does not.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fthefiringline.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D513924&psig=AOvVaw2lTePsESXlvuBq4DOkbN2C&ust=1610843835328000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNDwsImbn-4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Scroll down until you can see the picture with my thumb in it midway through the thread.

[35remington]

The photo was one I took illustrating the point, and occurred shortly after m1911.org participants made a large enough group buy of hybrid lipped and GI magazines to prompt Checkmate to start making them as a regular item again.

Having them back on the market again when the only type available previously were designs of the type JMB specifically avoided was and is an event of major significance for the 1911 user. Far too many are unaware of their existence or reason for being. It is now wonderful to have this choice available.

I’d tell you how much I paid per magazine but you’d be tempted to call that robbery. Ah, the cost benefits of ordering in many thousand number lots......

Subsequent to that time Checkmate cleaned up the weld seams with a handsome brushed back and, if you order via phone call and ask for the “extra power springs” you can get them for about 2.50 or so extra without having to pay 8 bucks apiece for aftermarket Wolff equivalent. At least last time I ordered anyway.

[35remington]

And......the flat follower with a dimple also has a specific redundant reliability feature inherent to its design. The follower is flat with a bump on it for a reason.

[Boogieman]

Get a long nose 200gr. SWC ,H&G #68 style loaded to 1.240 -1.260 OAL. That bullet was made for the 1911. It feeds 100%out of every mag I've tried it in. My mold is a Lee nontumble lub SWC. It's my every day S.D. load

[45DUDE]

The H&G style 68 flat base or the Lyman 460 with a good midrange load is very hard to beat. A good gun will do 1 1/2'' on the bench with 10 shots and open sights. I have had to swap a few mags but the new Kimber mags will feed 185-swc to 245 wc in my 45's. My favorite is the 195 H&G short nose flat base but most 1911"s wont feed correctly.

[Bigslug]

A few years ago I went off on a tangent in which I played around with finding the best system to feed Keith's .45 Auto Rim revolver bullet - the 452423 - out of a 1911. It's a blunt, chunky, 75% meplat, root-beer barrel of a bullet intended for short range, blunt-force trauma. I like to say that Elmer must have been more cross with the world than usual when he designed that one. At any rate, it was NOT designed with a diagonal trip up a feed ramp in mind.

What I found on testing it through unaltered GI and various other 1911 platforms, was that the noses of the bullets that were fed from tapered-lip, GI pattern magazines took less damage travelling up the ramp and into the chamber than those that fed from the more straight lip styles.

The reason for this seems to be that the GI mags are more in step with Mauser's controlled feed magazine system. They allow the nose of the round to pivot upward gradually as the back of the round is still held by the mag. The straight lip mags pretty much lock the round into one line until they reach that point of sudden release. Ball rounds generally don't care; SWC's like the HG68 or hollowpoints that are profiled to make the gun THINK it's shooting ball rounds may not care; the 452423 was an exercise in extremes that told me a lot about how a 1911 runs - and it got me thinking that JMB had the mags right to begin with.

[cp1969]

I've shot buckets of 45acp's with 185 and 200 grain bullets with mixed no name mags without notice out of at least half a dozen different 1911's. I didn't know you need special mags for wadcutters....I didn't either. All of the lead bullets I've put through the two stock Colts I've had (one 70 series and one 80 series) were with the two factory Colt magazines that came with them and a handful of gun show cheapies, pettigree unknown. No modifications to guns or magazines.

Bullets were all cast semi wadcutters, either bought from vendors or cast by me, including the Lyman 195 grain semiwadcutter, which is virtually a wadcutter with a tiny raised portion in the center.

I was expecting problems but never had any.

[9mmskng]

the classic 200gr SWC feeds best from a ***tuned*** 1911

Wilson Combat and CMC mags work well

overall length is a bit critical

once dialed in, they run like a top, shoot accurately and cut nice holes in targets
Not true at all! I ONLY load 200gr SWC cast bullets, from various bullet mfgs, and shoot them through ALL my Factory 1911's, with NO feed issues at all, 100% reliability in not only my guns, but friends' production guns as well. I've used Wilson & Chips over the years, but phasing out the Wilson's, as I prefer metal follower. Both mfg mags work 100% feed wise.

[mvintx]

I am reading through this topic with interest as I'm having feed issues with my Gold Cup and the SAECO H&G 68 clone. I'm using Brownell's 8-round magazines and the second, third and sometimes fourth round in the magazine nosedives and jams into the outside lip of the chamber just above the feed ramp. Remaining rounds feed without issue. The Brownell's followers do not have the little bump on top. Compared to photos of other magazines, they appear to be of the hybrid design. COAL is 1.250". Looks like I need to get some other mags.https://i.imgur.com/uVXLuW5.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/LekZVIJ.jpg

[Burnt Fingers]

Just get a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. I've heard they solve every problem.

Now being serious, have you tried any other SWC boolits?

I've got a SA TRP that will chokes on H&G 68 boolits, yeah I have an actual H&G mold. But if fed the RCBS 201KT it runs like grass through a goose. I've tested at least a dozen different mags in the TRP, they all give the same feeding problem.

I have a SWC seating plug for my Dillon dies that index on the shoulder of the boolit. I always have the same amount of shoulder above the case mouth using this plug.

The slightly longer nose of the RCBS 201KT makes a difference.

[Jtarm]

I run the M&P version in a Springfield Defender.

Ed Brown or factory magazines, they feed fine.

[mvintx]

Just get a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. I've heard they solve every problem.

Now being serious, have you tried any other SWC boolits?

I've got a SA TRP that will chokes on H&G 68 boolits, yeah I have an actual H&G mold. But if fed the RCBS 201KT it runs like grass through a goose. I've tested at least a dozen different mags in the TRP, they all give the same feeding problem.

I have a SWC seating plug for my Dillon dies that index on the shoulder of the boolit. I always have the same amount of shoulder above the case mouth using this plug.

The slightly longer nose of the RCBS 201KT makes a difference.

ya know, I first read your post and thought "what the heck does a LEE FCD do that any other taper crimp die doesn't"? Then I saw it was said tongue in cheek.

No, I have not tried any other boolits and I've got that same seating plug in my Dillon dies. When I first got the mold I wondered if the sharp corner where the meplat meets the sides would be problematic. I'm hoping a different magazine solves the issue. If not then I may be in the market for a different mold. I've shot this pistol only just a bit - 60 rounds total so far and only with the Brownell's magazines. I have one factory mag that has the little dimple on the follower and if that works, then I'm OK. If I still have problems, I think I'll try a Checkmate or Wilson magazine. I gotta admit, that SAECO boolit is an accurate little sucker. None of my other pistols come close to this kind of accuracy. https://i.imgur.com/B5YySni.jpg

[metricmonkeywrench]

Seeing this post pop up reminded me that I should provide a current status. I finally put the SWC load across the Chrono. End result the 200g SWC Lyman over 4.5g of BE was only netting me 836fps and a crummy group.

In conferring with my more experienced reloading mentor the load seems to be on the ragged edge of reliably functioning in my gun with the light bullet and likely need to bump up the powder charge to the 5g zone. I can also possibly increase the OAL a bit, I will load some test batches of both to see what happens

The 225g RN load I put together runs like factory and is more accurate than me.

Still working with the same 3 original mags, but I have the bucket ready for the inevitable collection of magazines

@10 yards SWC on the Right Rn on the left
282030

[mvintx]

Your 836 fps pretty danged close to what I'm getting (839 fps) with my 4.4 grains BE.

[45workhorse]

I run 8 and 10 round Wilson magazines in a Colt. It will feed an empty case. Good practice drill for failure to fire drill, and seeing if somebody is anticipating the recoil!
Just my two cents worth! YMMV

[roverboy]

I know this is a old thread but, I just saw this. My 1911 will feed 230 gr. FMJ and 230 gr. HP like a greased pig but, absolutely hates 200 gr. SWC. I've got 2 factory 8 rd. and a Promag I've not tried yet.

[Papercidal]

I prefer checkmate mags with the colt hybrid feedlips but the only magazines I’ve had that Don’t feed reliably are wilsons

[1hole]

My 1911-A1 was said to have been assembled late at night in VietNam some 40+ years ago with hand selected parts in a military armory. It's all military so it's not pretty but it handles and shoots like a custom handgun; it came to me with three common G.I. magazines. That thing gobbles up whatever I feed it, round nose or SWC. (I love that ugly old Parkerized thing and cast SWCs.) And I did put Pachmyer's rubber wrap-around grips and an extended slide release on it.

Novac sights would be great too, but for the way I use it it's fine as is. It's a very accurate handgun but, after all, autoloading handguns are just close range combat weapons! Better sights for "long range" (50+ yards) shooting would be nice but wasted on any rugged defensive handgun, IMHO.

In good light, even at 100 yards, the original sights and my 200 gr. SWC handloads are plenty good enough to give a stationary goblin's exposed head much trouble. Even if he lived, the facial scarring would look terrible! :)

[wv109323]

There is a lot more to a reliable feeding 1911 than magazine lip configuration. The height the magazine is held by the magazine release, where the bullet hits the feed ramp, the strength of the magazine spring, the recoil spring and mainspring weight(the distance the slide recoils), brass dragging on sharp magazine lips, the height and relationship of barrel on the frame deck COAL, and finally the extractor tension. This is not a complete list at all.
The reason most have a bucket of magazines is there is a pistol problem. One of the least expensive and highest quality magazines is a Metalform. On the other hand I have a Colt magazine from the 1940-1950's that has feed probably 100k rounds that I still rely on.

[Rich/WIS]

Out of curiosity tried my load of Lee 68 clone in five GI mags that the CMP was selling several years ago. These were new mags and still stiff and scratchy with the parked finish. All fed fine in my SA Range Officer, although this was limited to five in each mag. Mags that have seen a bit of use and have smoothed the park will likely feed reliably. Key is to shoot enough through the mags to be sure there are no issues.