Molds for 327 and 44 special from Accurate

[Dunross]

Howdy,

Until now I've been content to fish from the eBay stream for the bullet molds that I have, but recently I've come to the conclusion that the final few molds I want are just going to have to be bought new.

I have a 327 Fed Mag SP101 and a Henry BBS lever action in the same caliber that I want to cast for. What I want is the traditional 115gr rn/fp used in 32-20 loads, but the Lyman 3118 molds seldom come up used and when they do they go high enough one might as well buy a new one! I could order a new Lyman, but I've been looking at the Accurate molds and thinking that might be the way to go. So, Lyman or Accurate?

The 31-115B and 31-115A appear to be what I want, but cannot decide if one is better than the other. The 31-115H looks interesting as well, but not sure if the Henry would feed it or not. That one might be a revolver only bullet. Which mold would you choose? Also, what diameter should I order them in? I know at least a few folks here must have SP101s and Henrys in this caliber already so you'll already have this worked out. A buddy and I want to try powder coating so that's probably the way we'll go with these.

Further, I have a GP100 in 44 Special for which I would like to cast some wadcutters in the 200-220gr range. The 43-200W, 43-200Z, and 43-215W look viable for the purpose. Which one do you like? I'm presuming a .430" diameter? Also probably powder coated.

Thanks for any insights!

[Green Frog]

Dunross, I currently own more than a half dozen moulds for my 32 revolvers including a single and four cavity Ideal 3118. I bought one of NOE’s adaptations of the design, but I don’t know whether it would suit your needs as it runs quite a bit heavier... 125 grains with COWW+2%Sn. Out of curiosity I just went back to the Accurate website and if I were ordering one of theirs, I would be tempted to go with the 31-115H because it strengthens the two perceived weaknesses in the classic old design; it gives a nice, big lube groove and it has a nice crimp groove with a full diameter band in front of it. If I weren’t already mould poor, I’d be ordering one of these myself.

Froggie

[megasupermagnum]

I have a bunch of 327's, including a Henry rifle. The SP101 can handle a cartridge up to about 1.615", but the Henry can only handle an OAL length about 1.530". As I've found out, 115 grains is rather light for ideal performance in the caliber, but should work well with the right loads. You can get some crazy velocity at that bullet weight, over 2000 fps in the rifle with H110 or similar, so I would suggest a gas check if you are going to be using full power loads. If more moderate loads are your thing, I would lean you towards the 31-135S. That bullet will also fit in a Single 7 if you ever get one. I've tried lighter bullets, and didn't like them. Most of my work has been in the 125-150 grain bullet range, and I consider that the sweet spot for accuracy.

[Dunross]

I chose the 115gr weight because it's the traditional bullet for 32-20 rifles, but I'm not wed to it. If the Henry will reliably feed a heavier bullet I'll go for it. In looking at the Accurate catalog it says the 31-135S is the max nose length for the Single Seven which I'm interpreting to mean it will be too long for the Henry? How heavy of a bullet will it reliably feed?

We haven't done any powder coating yet (we're gearing up) so I may be incorrect, but I thought doing so reduced the need for gas checks?

I really like the 31-115H, but I'm concerned it won't feed in the Henry. Ought to be a great revolver bullet though.

A Single Seven is on my wish list for the longer barrel lengths it offers.

Thanks for the advice.

[44magLeo]

On sizing for the 44, check the chambers in the front of the cylinder size as close to that size as you can and keep easy chambering.
Same as you would with most any revolver.
I have not tried any accurate molds. I have used Lyman and NOE. Both work well. I think I like the aluminum molds. Caast just as well and are not as heavy.
Leo

[megasupermagnum]

I chose the 115gr weight because it's the traditional bullet for 32-20 rifles, but I'm not wed to it. If the Henry will reliably feed a heavier bullet I'll go for it. In looking at the Accurate catalog it says the 31-135S is the max nose length for the Single Seven which I'm interpreting to mean it will be too long for the Henry? How heavy of a bullet will it reliably feed?

We haven't done any powder coating yet (we're gearing up) so I may be incorrect, but I thought doing so reduced the need for gas checks?

I really like the 31-115H, but I'm concerned it won't feed in the Henry. Ought to be a great revolver bullet though.

A Single Seven is on my wish list for the longer barrel lengths it offers.

Thanks for the advice.

No, powder coating does not negate the use of a gas check. There is more going on with what a gas check does for a bullet than I can comprehend, and do not claim to. The general rule of thumb I'm seeing for the most part is that in rifles, once you get over about 1400 fps you benefit greatly from them. If you use full power loads, which you do not have to, but if you do you will greatly exceed that speed in rifles with pretty much any bullet.

The Single 7 (7 shot chambered for 327 federal) is the same as Ruger's single 6, which was built for rimfires. A 327 barely fits in the gun. They handle a cartridge OAL about 1.490", maybe a scooch longer if you want to push it. The Henry rifle on the other hand will handle a 1.530" cartridge OAL. In other words, the Henry can handle a bullet with a crimp to nose length of 0.330". Most 327 brass also runs slightly shorter at about 1.185" to 1.190". How heavy you want to go depends on what you want. I've gone up to a 167 grain bullet. The most accurate I've tried is the Accurate 31-148CG, however, with it's long nose you would have to single load them. One thing to note is that the throat on the Henry is very generous. I would look for a bullet with a nice long front driving band, at least 0.100" long. If looking to mainly shoot full power 327 federal loads, definitely go for a gas check. If wanting more moderate loads, or 32 H&R loads, then a plain base could serve you well. I shoot plain base mostly myself, but have only had great accuracy with gas checks with full power H110 loads.

Bullets I would recommend would be the Accurate 31-140W (ordered with .314" body diameter), Arsenal 313-115 RF (best 115 gr bullet), or NOE 315-121-WFN.

[Dunross]

When I first started thinking of getting a 327 rifle I was really only thinking of using factory ammo. Buffalo Outdoors in his YouTube channel was clocking 2000fps muzzle velocity with the Federal American Eagle 100gr jsp which impressed me with both the accuracy and expansion he was getting at 100yds. Of course the Panic started just as I finally got around to buying the Henry and factory 327 ammo of any type has become all but unobtainable so that idea went "poof."

Fortunately I do reload so rolling my own is a possibility. Federal never offered that 100gr jsp as a reloading component and other bullet selection for 327 is sparse so here I am thinking about making my own. I had never considered with going with a heavier than 115gr bullet before, but the idea appeals to me. I'm willing to do gas checks and I believe standard 30 cal will work on .312 bullets.

What sort of velocity are you getting from your Henry with the 140gr bullet? I'm torn between it and the 31-130F. Their dimensions appear fairly similar so if one feeds in the Henry then I believe the other will as well. A 130gr gas-checked bullet I might be able to use in 7.62x39 rifles as well. In a revolver with 32 H&R loads might make it good for not too destructive shots with decent penetration.

[megasupermagnum]

To be honest, I have never tried tried the heavy bullet over the chronograph from the rifle yet. The most accurate load I have ever shot from that rifle was the Accurate 31-148CG with 11.5 gr H110. I casted that as a hollow point, and with relatively soft 20:1 alloy. That shot about 3" at 100 yards with peep sights. It runs around 1200 fps from a 5" revolver, so I'd throw a guess of 1500-1550 fps from the rifle. With a harder alloy, you could likely shoot them faster accurately.

With most of the loads I shoot, I have to single feed them in the rifle. The reason I suggest the 31-140W is because it is very close to a shortened version of my 31-148CG, and it will be able to feed in the rifle. I've also tried my 148gr seated shorter, and they feed slick as can be. I would suggest a bullet with a nice long front driving band, as the 31-140W has. That 31-130F looks rather weak in that department.

If you are looking for a jacketed bullet, look no farther than the Hornady XTP 100 grain. I've never seen any of the 85 grain offerings shoot good at all. I've found the 100gr XTP to shoot great with 13.2 gr H110, or 8gr Bluedot. I've found it very picky on loads, but those two shoot really well. There is also a new Swift A-Frame 100gr bullet that seems interesting, and I have not tried them yet. It may be some time before we see factory ammo available, but Federal came out with a new round specifically for deer hunting with the Henry rifle. It is a 127gr bullet.

You can see a lot of the work I've done with heavier cast bullets below. I would suggest you size to your throat diameters, or close to them. I've had 4 revolvers, as well as handling a Single 7, and all of them would accept a .314" bullet. My henry could take a .315" bullet, but I shoot it with the .314".


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?352086-327-federal-heavy-bullets

[Larry Gibson]

Agree with megasupermagnum, if you want top end performance with the best accuracy the heavier bullet id the correct choice. Also as mentioned, whether traditional lubing or using PCi/HT a GC'd bullet is essential to the most accurate performance at top end with that cartridge.

[Dunross]

Yes, now that someone has them again I'm putting an order in for those 100gr XTPs this weekend. I came across the Swift A-frames a few weeks ago, but holy cow the price! Too rich for my blood.

I saw the initial articles about that 127gr Federal load when it first came out. Started searching then and there and have never found it in stock anywhere and don't expect to for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure it ever existed! (laughing)

OK, I'll go with the 31-140W. If I cast harder it should drop the weight somewhat. I will be shooting range scrap mostly sweetened with some linotype to get it to the hardness level that seems indicated. With a gas check I may keep these fairly soft as the powder coating should deter leading. I have occasional hog problems so I might try these at 50-100yd ranges to see what they can do. Otherwise it'll be coyotes and smaller which this should be more than enough for.

Thanks for your help!

[megasupermagnum]

I forgot to mention, yes the .284" shank is for a 30 caliber gas check. I buy from Sage's, and they offer two thickness checks. I would suggest the thicker version, although I have used both with success. You do not need to add linotype if you don't want to, but certainly would not hurt. You can quench the bullets, and that will significantly harden them. I'm shooting range scrap at the moment, and when water dropped from the mold run 25 BHN or harder. Softer is worth a try too. Leading is not a concern so much as the fact that the bullets can slightly deform, AKA "slump", which is not the best recipe for accuracy. Powder coating will not help this, but won't hurt either. It is only another way to do it.

If you order the 31-140W, make sure under "body diameter" you choose .314" +.002" or whatever diameter you prefer.

[David W. Sanders]

i here you about trying to buy Lee bullet molds off of Ebay people are going crazy paying 3-4 times higher than what you can buy them brand new> i know that i tried contacting Lee and i got their answering message saying that they are 2 months behind on any of their orders.

[Dunross]

I'm going to go with the .314. I believe the powder coat adds a couple of thousandths anyway? I may want to try these in 7.62x39 and 30-30 as well.

May try the NOE 115gr as well so that I won't have such a big jump from my 95gr wc and swc molds to the 140gr mold.

[Dunross]

i here you about trying to buy Lee bullet molds off of Ebay people are going crazy paying 3-4 times higher than what you can buy them brand new> i know that i tried contacting Lee and i got their answering message saying that they are 2 months behind on any of their orders.

Not just Lee molds. I got beat out last night on a Lyman two-cavity 44 wadcutter which went for $127. Granted Lyman doesn't make them any more, but I could order the same thing from Accurate in iron for only $20 more. Third time I've been beat out on that mold over the last several years. If it gets to within 20% of what I can buy it new for then I'm out.
w

[Walks]

You might want to give some consideration to the #43-206H, a SWC. It still cuts a clean hole in the paper.
It was designed by Outpost75
Unless you're really wedded to the idea of a straight wadcutter.

[Dunross]

Got the order in to Accurate. Went with a four cavity mold - two of the 31-140W and two of the 31-120S - so that I can cast rifle and pistol bullets. Current turn around time is four weeks. I'm pretty busy at the house with winter chores right now so if I can find time to smelt some scrap before it comes in I'll be doing good.

Picked up a used Black & Decker countertop convection oven yesterday at the Goodwill for the princely sum of $12.83 to use in powder coating bullets.

[Dunross]

My mold from Accurate came in yesterday! Ordered it Jan 19 so I'm happy. I think he's six+ weeks out now.

It's a dual mold in iron. Two cavities are the 31-120S that Gus Youmans had designed and the other two are 31-140W that Megasupermagnum recommended. Interesting that he put the longer bullet on the outsides and the shorter bullet in the middle.

Now if the weather will cooperate so that I can finish building out my casting bench and get some more range scrap and wheel weights cleaned up.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dunross: As far as your .44 caliber choice you might look at just the standard 429421 Lyman Boolit.(Mihec Mould with HP Pins!!!) I have a S&W696 which is exactly what the GP100/44 was designed after. I thought that shooting lighter boolits would be just what I was looking for. Turned out to be a big waste of time.

After playing with a few lighter boolits from 190 gr SWC to Lyman 429215 SWCGC none of which shot anywhere near the sights,,, I just loaded up some Keith Boolits and Bang.. The gun shoots right to the sights. There is no more recoil than with the lighter boolits or at least it was not noticeable, simply because the Special Loads are never as hot as Magnum Loads.

The cool thing about the Mihec Mould is you can cast 4 different types on boolits with it. Small Round HP, Large Round HP, Pentagonal HP, and Solid. The Pent HP is the lightest at 240 gr and the Solids run @ 260 gr.

Various Loads for these boolits, I run 6.0 gr of W231 or there is the well proven Skeeter Load of 7.5 gr of Unique which is a little hotter than the W231 load.

Another hot tip is to get a Back Issue of Handloader Aug 2005 #236 which has the definitive article on loading the .44 Special from Brian Pearce which has hundreds of loads from Mild to Wild. This is well worth the price.

Boolits need to be sized to .431 for .430 throats and .429 grooves.

Believe me this will save you a bunch of frustration.

hope this helps.

Randy

[Dunross]

I have a 429421 which is essentially my go-to bullet. I'm looking at a 215gr swc mold now. Likely I'll cast up a bunch of the 429421s as I'm experimenting with the other ones. Thanks for the info.