.43 Spanish Rolling Block: Any other calibers it can be converted to without rebarell

[Gaucho Gringo]

Hi.

I have an Argentine .43 Spanish rolling block. Are there any more available calibers that I could have it converted to without rebarreling the rifle, just boring and chamber work? Thank you.

[Pepe Ray]

You'll more than likely end up loading ammo for it no matter what cartridge so why not stick with the original.
Weigh the expenses on both sides and ,well-- that's what I'd do.
Good luck.
Pepe Ray

[northmn]

Unless the barrel is unusable its nice to leave these old guns alone as they are getting harder to find for collection and lose value when modified. The 43 Spanish is an impressive cartridge. Lyman makes the mold. The brass is available through Grafs or Midway. As stated it is likely a handloading proposition.

Northmn

[curator]

The .43 Spanish cartridge is impressive but difficult to get to shoot accurately unless you are careful about the details. I have several Argentine and other South American models all made originally by Remington. Bore and groove diameters vary a lot. On most of them a .439 diameter bullet is somewhat to significantly under groove diameter. Chamber necks are also too small to chamber cartridges that carry bullets of at least groove diameter--frustrating! Soft, almost pure lead .439 bullets do obturate sufficiently with full-case loads of FFg black powder (75+ grains) but these are not a whole lot of fun to shoot. Paper patching seems to be the best option when using light loads of smokless powder. I have found that a soft 300 grain .432 bullet paper-patched to .440 and loaded over 12 grains of Unique can be very accurate in a couple of my rifles. My experience with this cartridge leads me to belive it is the PHd level in Black powder cartridge shooting. Of course, your experience may differ---

[TNsailorman]

I have a .43 Spanish that I bought in the mid 60's. I can't slug the bore because I don't have the mathmatical ability(dare I say--math challenged) to measure a 5 groove correctly. What I have found for acceptable accuracy is to cast a soft lead boolit from the Lyman mould, no sizing, and then paper patch with one wrap of onionskin paper. Not 1" capable at one hundred yards but minute of lung on a deer. If you don't cast your own boolits, there are a few people who do sell them. The cases are not hard to find these days. They were almost implossible to find in the 60's. Fred Huntington make me a special neck size die for my .43 many years ago and that is the only sizing die I use after the first firing of a new case. The beauty of such old guns is the experience of shooting history and just enjoying them for what they were and are. James

[missionary5155]

Good morning If you neck turn the brass the fatter .446 Lyman boolit is usable. I had a .443 Sizer made and vary between sizers depending on what powder I use. My Beltram brass had THICK necks and turnong did not seem to hurt them.

[missionary5155]

Hello again This section 5 threads down is another possible fix for the tight chamber. GUNINHAND sized the lube area smaller than the nose making a HEEL style boolit and it seems to work well....

[smokemjoe]

Back 50 years ago when the OLD Hunter sold these rifles for $9.95 I had a reamer ground at work, John Deere Tool works, Used the 348 case blowed out to 43 cal. This was still a hard to made. I now buy 43 Spanish brass, If you can get 44 basic, use them full lenght as the spanish case is longer then as is. No trouble with under 2 in. at 100 yds. Joe

[Bullshop]

We have a couple rollers here in 43 too. One cute little trick we have found for simple accurate loads is to use a heavy 45 cal (.451 or so) pistol boolit that has a gas check shank. Use the check shank as a heel and seat only the shank inside the neck.
Maybe you woldnt want to carry this ammo in your pocket because there isnt much boolit in the case to hold them in alinment but it does work fairly well to get shooting cheep. Not much of a formal test but we were plinking away at about 200 yards using a 300gn Saco mold for a swc with check shank. Shooting at a soup can size target at 200 we were able to hit quite often.
BIC/BS

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/23E5560C8BB6BF7/standard.jpg

............Shot from my 1879 Argentine contract rolling block at 50 yards. Bertram brass, WW alloy slugs sized to .440.

................Buckshot

[timberlost]

50years ago they sold for 5.95 I wish I would have bought 100

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The .43 Spanish cartridge is impressive but difficult to get to shoot accurately unless you are careful about the details. I have several Argentine and other South American models all made originally by Remington. Bore and groove diameters vary a lot. On most of them a .439 diameter bullet is somewhat to significantly under groove diameter. Chamber necks are also too small to chamber cartridges that carry bullets of at least groove diameter--frustrating! Soft, almost pure lead .439 bullets do obturate sufficiently with full-case loads of FFg black powder (75+ grains) but these are not a whole lot of fun to shoot. Paper patching seems to be the best option when using light loads of smokless powder. I have found that a soft 300 grain .432 bullet paper-patched to .440 and loaded over 12 grains of Unique can be very accurate in a couple of my rifles. My experience with this cartridge leads me to belive it is the PHd level in Black powder cartridge shooting. Of course, your experience may differ---

Having the same problem, I size the lower half of sized and lubed bore diameter bullets, down to fit the case necks of my 10.4 x 47R Vetterli-Vitali, in effect making two diameter bullets. I put a stop under the dies on my Lyman 450 sizer, allowing me to fine adjust the sizing depth.
Morgan

[singleshotman]

If you need to convert it you could rent a 44-77 Sharps & Remington reamer and ream it out-this would solve the chamber problem because the 44-77 is the 43 spanish with a bigger neck and bullet(.446) everything else is the same. I say this because i once shot 43 spanish ammo in a criginal 44-77 Remington sporting rifle.The bullets i were using were 439186 unsized and they shot good. At that time i couldn't get 44-77 brass as it was forty years ago.Even 11mm mauser was hard to get, i trimmed it down and fireformed it to fit the 43 spanish.The Mauser "A" base was a perfect fit in a rifle designed for folded head cases. DO you know that most 43 Spanish rolling blocks were designed for folded-head cases,and have excess headspace(up to .025) for modern cases?

[Gaucho Gringo]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I am leaning to getting the barrel relined and cut for 45\70. The barrel is in pristine shape and the metal parts of the gun are in excellent shape. The only thing that looks beat up is the wood stock and forend, looks like they were beat with chains and the wood looks like it has been soaked in motor oil for 50 years. I have tried to sell it locally but no one wants to offer more than $150.00 for it. I had thought I would sell it and use the money to buy a junker to rebuild, but at the offers I am getting for it I will be better off using this one to do what I want to do.

[pietro]

It'll probably cost less to simply rebarrel to .45-70 than bore out/reline/cut the .43 barrel - no matter how nice it is.

I suppose it could be relined to .38-55, .30-30, .32.-40, or even .22 rimfire by turning down a donor barrel for use as a liner and bushing the FP.

Even "Mr Single Shot", Frank De Haas, said that rechambering or reboring/rechambering is out of the question for rollers in .43 Spanish/.43 Egyptian/.50-70.

.

[Bullshop]

How about a 44/77 Sharps? If you comapir the two closely you will see they are nearly the same.

[jgraham1]

I agree with Bullshop. The 44/77 is a great caliber!

Jerry

[Marvin S]

The 44/77 would be the way to go and the reamers can be rented. I was going to do this on mine but have since then I built a mold to cast a .442 boolit. Neck turning as said before will allow a fatter slug but I have not found it to be necessary yet. I have been using soft lead and have had good luck with it bumping up and filling the bore.

[jgraham1]

Marvin S,

Are you using 1 to 20 or higher for those boolits?

Jerry

[Le Loup Solitaire]

A long long tine ago Numerich (now Gun Parts Corp) sold kits that converted 43 rollers to 45-70. It consisted essentially of a half round-half "orangatang" barrel and a forearm to fit. Also had open sights to replace the original ones. The barrel was enormous- around 15/16"+ across the flats and the round section tapering slightly from that....26" total length was not exactly what you would call slim. The finished conversion was no lightweight. I bought one that had already been converted by someone and still have it. It is a solid and accurate shooting rifle with the 45-70 cartridge, heavy as hell and the trigger pull takes some getting used to. The overall weight handles the recoil well even with heavy bullets, but it is not what I or you would want to haul around all day in the woods. Mine was originally Egyptian as evidenced by some of the markings found on some internal parts. 45-70 is probably the easiest caliber for rebarreling or loading for if you are converting one of these unless you have a particular other preference. LLS

[Bullshop]

I just happen to have one of those Numerich Arms barrels for sale.
This one though is a full octigon and chembered for the 444 marlin.
$100.00 shipped.

[Marvin S]

jgraham1: I use the same lead as I do for my muzzle loaders, pretty much pure with lots of lube. I mold I built has very large lube grooves much like a maxi ball. I pan lube with a bees wax Vaseline and a smidgen of paraffin.

[jgraham1]

Marvin S -

Interesting way of doing it. I do not pan lube because of the mess but use a Lyman sizing die instead. I like the SPG lube. Have you tried that at all? Up here in Alaska I have never had a problem with it getting to the point where it would not flow properly and soften the powder as required. How does your lube work in the cold?

Jerry

[Marvin S]

I have not used it in the cold yet but I believe it to be similar to SPG. It is very soft.

[jgraham1]

Can you reveal the ratios of your mix or is it a secret?

[nitroproof]

I had my .43 Spanish relined to .45/70. Here's a pic of the final project:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5207&d=1194100932

I'd bought the gun at a gunshow for $150. The bore was just awful plus I wanted a more practical caliber. Restocked it myself (with some help from Treebone Carving).
I shot silhouette for a few years with it.
The liner is invisibe.

[Marvin S]

No secret I just used one of them listed from this web site. As to the exact ratio I don't remember. I just made a large batch that should last for a while. I did, by accident get the lavender scented Vaseline. So between the bee wax and lavender it smells nice.

[uncowboy]

I am working with one now that is a basket case, I was thinking of lonning it to 405 Winchester, A Great clasic cla good for hunting and target. What do you all think? J.Michael

[Wayne Smith]

Two questions, to neither of which I know the answer. Will the action stand the back pressure of the 405 Win?. Will the case fit in over the roller or is it too long? I know the 9.3x74R is too long.