350 Legend and W296/H110/AA11FS WARNING

[44Blam]

I stopped using these powders in 350 legend because I had some pressure spikes. The problems I saw were with <80% fill in the case.

I shot a lot of W296 and had 6 cases that the primer fell out of and/or jammed my gun. Couple months later, I am reloading that ONCE fired brass and am seeing primer pockets too loose to take a primer. This brass is all Winchester and all the brass that I am now throwing away was loaded with W296 or AA11FS (H110 is similar).

I am shooting W296 with a very small boolit 125 grain and pretty much filling the case - that shoots well and the cases are OK.

[mehavey]

YUP... same here

[Tatume]

You have answered your own question. You should not use H110 or W296 with reduced loading density. Hodgdon has published for years that these powders should fill at least 95% of the available case volume.

[Tatume]

Hodgdon used to publish only a single load, and advise to use that load exactly; do not reduce.

[smokeater]

Used H110 in my Legend using 124gr 9mm Extreme Plated bullets without any problems at all. Super accurate. Used published max load data. Also did same with LilGun and 2400 without any problems. All using max loading data. Got rid of mine as was aggravating seating and crimping bullets for my Ruger American rifle. It would not take anything larger than .356 bullets. Mine was among first out, things might be different today.

[Tatume]

Used H110 in my Legend using 124gr 9mm Extreme Plated bullets without any problems at all. Super accurate. Used published max load data. Also did same with LilGun and 2400 without any problems. All using max loading data. Got rid of mine as was aggravating seating and crimping bullets for my Ruger American rifle. It would not take anything larger than .356 bullets. Mine was among first out, things might be different today.

That's how to use H110/W296.

[tomme boy]

It seems to follow using lead bullets. I do not have problems with shooting jacketed bullets but lead bullets I do. I have thrown away about 200 cases for the same as you. But none have had the case head expansion using jacketed bullets. Using 296/h110 like others. I am using 5744,rl7,1680 now for lead going over 1800fps. And unique for up to 1500pfs as I have lots of it.

I warned of this a long time ago. LILgun is just as bad as h110. That was the first one I had problems with

[44Blam]

It seems to follow using lead bullets. I do not have problems with shooting jacketed bullets but lead bullets I do. I have thrown away about 200 cases for the same as you. But none have had the case head expansion using jacketed bullets. Using 296/h110 like others. I am using 5744,rl7,1680 now for lead going over 1800fps. And unique for up to 1500pfs as I have lots of it.

I warned of this a long time ago. LILgun is just as bad as h110. That was the first one I had problems with

I've found 9 cases where the primer pocket was out of spec. 1 blew the primer out in the rifle - that's when I stopped shooting W296 and I found 6 with no primers after tumbling. None of these would fit into the shell holder.

Since then, I've reloaded about 300 of about 5 or 600 cases and found 2 more with primer pockets that would not hold a primer. Vast majority of the cases are OK.

EDIT:
I did develop a really nice load with a 180 grain boolit and Norma200 that is very accurate and much lower pressure. Sends that boolit right at 2000 fps.

[mehavey]

Over the years I've found two powders that I rate as magic.

Vihtavuori N-110
Norma-200

[44Blam]

Over the years I've found two powders that I rate as magic.

Vihtavuori N-110
Norma-200

I did a 5 round series with my 180 grain boolit and Norma 200 load and had a 9 fps spread... It was 2021-2030. Amazing.

Here is what happened to my cases:
275371

[cwlongshot]

I shoot the 350 legend enough MSR configuration as well as a Ruger American. By far the MSR eats Brass the Ruger almost never does. You just have to be more careful with your loads and not push things is hard in the MSR because it will quickly peak pressures and cause the issues you're finding. Street wall cartridges are less forgiving in this regard. As stated lower pressures can give you nearly the same ballistics but may not produce the gases to function on MSR as reliably. Brass is a consumable item we all want to see our money stretched as far as we can. But don't forget brass is a consumable item that needs to be replaced from time to time.

CW

[mehavey]

Here is what happened to my cases:Are you saying the Norma200 did that to your cases?

Really?
Look at the Delta Web & Rim on this run w/ jacketed...
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6765165&postcount=138
and the results
https://i.postimg.cc/MpbzkRxN/350-Legend-Speer180-FP-NORMA-200-sm.jpg
(BTW I have happily switched to Win brass as it has a [much] greater safety margin in base-web thickness.)


And here's 180 cast -- and literally all the Norma200 that could be stuffed on the case:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6776578&postcount=283



Barring your running much higher loadouts (remember I said Norma200 was MAX case fill), I can't figure out what may be going on to blow your primers

(BTW2: CMMG Upper)

[tomme boy]

Mine was in an AR as well CW. None of the brass will fit in my Ruger that was shot out of the AR because of excess casehead expansion. That was why I had posted elsewhere about having to use the 9mm sizing die to shrink the web down. Before that I took some meat off the bottom of the Lee FL die to reduce the taper down a little more to try to size the web more but that was not enough. A 38 S&W sizer would have worked better. But I did what I did with what I had. The case really gets sized doing this and I lost a few from separations as I lowered the die. But they are now good and have been used a couple times already. I am using these for low vel loads.

[cwlongshot]

Im having a ball with heavies in the bolt at 1100 ish fps.

I havent upgraded my legend dies. Im still using the lee dies that was all that was available at the time. But (knock wood) they have worked just fine. I dont
Mix the brass but load on same dies and havent noticed a substantial difference BUT for ejector marks and rim damage and loosen pockets faster.

Early on I settled on 25g 296 under a 165 FTX. Its accurate and shows no pressure signs in four rifles. My 16" Ruger shows these to be almost 2200 fps. So not really very slow. I have t clocked them from the 24" SCR. BUT the brass looks great outta the SCR.
My repaired 140 FTX loads are NOT THE SAME and altho dont show web hi pressure, the brass is quite beat up.

CW

[tomme boy]

I went over and read the post with the link you posted Mehavey. I really liked the image you drew to explain the belt. But here is the problem. It is not a barrel problem. It is a brass manufacturing problem. The web is getting too low from the forming process. This is also been the reason that this issue has reared its head in 223/556 brass every now and then. And when it happens in 556 it is usually blown to pieces and everyone thinks it is a overloaded handload. Ot it was shot out of battery. But that can not happen in an AR unless the firing pin is wedged forward.

[mehavey]

It is not a barrel problem.
It is a brass manufacturing problem.Exactamundo...
https://i.postimg.cc/9MYyX2rw/350-Legend-Star-v-Fed-v-Win.jpg
and:
https://i.postimg.cc/15X0vnZs/350-LEGEND-Brass-Head-Dimension.jpg

See also
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6773436&postcount=265
Couple these two dimensions with extraction timing . . . .

Engineering says you never want tolerances that overlap -- which is why I switched to Winchester brass to maximize "not overlapping"


.

[44Blam]

Are you saying the Norma200 did that to your cases?

Really?
Look at the Delta Web & Rim on this run w/ jacketed...
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6765165&postcount=138
and the results
https://i.postimg.cc/MpbzkRxN/350-Legend-Speer180-FP-NORMA-200-sm.jpg
(BTW I have happily switched to Win brass as it has a [much] greater safety margin in base-web thickness.)


And here's 180 cast -- and literally all the Norma200 that could be stuffed on the case:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6776578&postcount=283



Barring your running much higher loadouts (remember I said Norma200 was MAX case fill), I can't figure out what may be going on to blow your primers

(BTW2: CMMG Upper)

Those primers were blown by W296...

I'm loading 28.2grain and its compressed. There is only about 3/16"of space... Must have been some heavy crunching going on to get 30 grain in there. 😊

[brewer12345]

Anyone played with Unique or 2400 with this cartridge? I have a plain base mold from acccurate I need to cast and coat with for the bolt gun. I also want to fool around with 124 and 147 grain j words. I have no need for full power loads in the bolt gun and was thinking that something between 100 and 1500 FPS would extend brass life, be fun and economical to shoot, and all that would remain would be to find a safe, accurate load.

[mehavey]

Those primers were blown by W296...Then we're good (so to speak) :veryconfu[smilie=w::2_high5:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As far as subsonic loads/light(er) bullet CatSneeze bolt guns go, I dunno.
I'll jinn something up with unique/158-ish/SAECO#398/1,000fps or SO tomorrow and not worry about ejection

[44Blam]

Anyone played with Unique or 2400 with this cartridge? I have a plain base mold from acccurate I need to cast and coat with for the bolt gun. I also want to fool around with 124 and 147 grain j words. I have no need for full power loads in the bolt gun and was thinking that something between 100 and 1500 FPS would extend brass life, be fun and economical to shoot, and all that would remain would be to find a safe, accurate load.

I did some work with a 125 grain gas check boolit. I did not do slower loads though. I was not able to get a good ES with 2400 but it shot well and was pretty accurate. Best spread I got was:

2333 2403 2425 2371 2382

This was an Accurate 35-125YG with a COL of 2.03" and 25 grain of 2400.

All of my 5 shot groups had large spreads between high and low. But all of my loads were fairly accurate at about 50 yards.

[44Blam]

Then we're good (so to speak) :veryconfu[smilie=w::2_high5:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As far as subsonic loads/light(er) bullet CatSneeze bolt guns go, I dunno.
I'll jinn something up with unique/158-ish/SAECO#398/1,000fps or SO tomorrow and not worry about ejection

Norma 200 is much lower pressure. I actually have different buffer springs and with the 180 grain boolit and a case full of Norma 200 I have to use a light spring to get it to cycle properly 100% of the time.

[tomme boy]

Anyone played with Unique or 2400 with this cartridge? I have a plain base mold from acccurate I need to cast and coat with for the bolt gun. I also want to fool around with 124 and 147 grain j words. I have no need for full power loads in the bolt gun and was thinking that something between 100 and 1500 FPS would extend brass life, be fun and economical to shoot, and all that would remain would be to find a safe, accurate load.

Yes.
135gr MP, 9gr unique 1519fps 10 shot avg. 2" group at 100yds

200gr hp MP clone rcbs, 7gr unique 1070fps avg 1.5" group 100yds

180gr NOE, 9gr unique 1402fps avg, 3.75" group 100yds

[PositiveCaster]

...I'm loading 28.2grain and its compressed. There is only about 3/16"of space...

I’m confused here, how can a compressed load have 3/16” of air space?


.

[megasupermagnum]

I’m confused here, how can a compressed load have 3/16” of air space?


.

I'm thinking he means 3/16" from the case mouth, which the bullet shank is much longer than that.

[mehavey]

bolt gun and was thinking that something between 1000 and 1500 FPS This afternoon:

SAECO#398-PlainBase/Lym#2 (158gr as-cast)/PC Eastwood_MirrorRed / Sized 0.358"
W231/8.0gr (0.7cc)
FedSmPstl
WIN Brass
2.025" OAL

15" CMMG Upper / SINGLE LOAD (Doesn't reliably magazine feed at that OAL)
22,300psi / 1,387 fps +/- 05 (very consistent)
3/4" at 50yds
Does not Eject

[BrutalAB]

Hodgdons h110 starting loads gave me cratered primers. Broke down the rest. Seems like velocity and point of impact matched or was very close to the factory loads of the 165 ftx.

[brewer12345]

Thanks for the Unique loads. Sounds like experimenting between 7 and 10 grains should be well within the margin of safety and may yield a usable load or two. Have cast 124s, will have cast 180s, will try those and probably 124 and 147 J words.

[Rudder69]

Hornady FL sizer die will pull AR shot brass back in spec like a small base die

[mulespurs]

Maybe I ain't doing it right but I am shooting the Lee 200gr gas checked powder coated under 21 gr w 296 0r H110 with good results on one large buck at 200 big steps and various varmits. I haven't had any bad primer pockets that I have noticed'

[Mal Paso]

Hornady FL sizer die will pull AR shot brass back in spec like a small base die

Welcome to the Forum!

Is that different than the one that comes in Hornady's 4 die set? Mine won't touch the bottom 3/16 with the die contacting the shell holder.