Ouch, the BPCR bug hurts...

[rinella]

Hello,

About six months ago, I picked up an H&R Buffalo Classic 45-70 to see if I would like BPCR. Well, to make a long story short, I'm ready for an upgrade!

First off, I can spend up to about $2k not including about $500 for sights. Most of my shooting is 200m or less with about 80% over cross sticks or bench and the rest is offhand. I will likely start occasionally shooting at 1000yd buffalo shoots and BPCR silhouette, so whatever I get has to work for all three styles of shooting.

I'm just about ready to order an unfinished CPA in 45-70 with a 30", #4, tapered full octagon, Badger barrel.

What do you guys think about CPA for BPCR? Would I be better off with a C. Sharps 1885? Or is there a different brand in this price range I should consider?

Also, what do you guys recommend for sights? Are the MVAs really that much better then Baldwins?

What is the advantage of getting a front sight with adjustable windage? It seems if i get an appropriate rear sight, I shouldn't ever need to adjust my front sight.

Thank you for all of the help!

[EDK]

Go over to shilohrifle.com/forums and do a lot of reading.

I have a 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS because I always wanted a BIG 50...and I love shooting my 13+ pound baby....34 inch Long Range Express. When I buy another rifle, it will be close duplicate Shiloh in 45/70. AND I'd get all the options I wanted, budget be d----d!

I really like the MVAs...I have a #112 front windage and both a #107 and a #130 staff for the base on my 50 PLUS I had bases for a MVA scope installed when the gun was built. At 60, I know a scope will be in the near future for me...and it eliminated a trip to the gun smith to have the bases installed by having it done then. I probably wouldn't get the windage adjustable front on the next gun, but it sure looks good...even if it is a little bulky. You might consider the SOULE sights from MVA...preferably the "buffalo soule" with greater windage adjustments. It's over your suggested budget for sights, but well worth the price.

Shiloh has the best forum and "rabid fans." Their customer service is excellent....my rifle flunked final inspection(at Shiloh) with a minute crack in the stock and they replaced the extra fancy wood plus pewter tip, etc with the same specifications in perfect condition before I received it. Over $700 worth of options reduced to scrap. "If it isn't perfect, it doesn't leave the factory!"

C. Sharps has some issues and they need to work on public relations. Meacham makes a beautiful 1885 replica...only thing I would consider besides a Shiloh.

Go to some matches and do some looking around and talk to the guys after their relays. I drive 1400 miles EACH WAY from St Louis to go to the Quigley shoot in Montana...and a side trip to Big Timber. 600+ shooters in 2008 and every kind of black powder cartridge rifle you could want to look at.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Southern Son]

I can't comment on the Baldwin Sights, I do know a few fellers on this forum like them alot. I can tell you that the MVA Buffalo Soule is one of the most beutiful things that I own. It is a work of art compartable to anything I have seen in any "art" gallery. The polish and bluing is just perfect and using the sight is a pleasure. Which ever rear sight you get, get a Hadley style eyecup with the various hole sizes in it. Until you try it, you will never know just how helpful it is to be able to change the appeture for the different lighting conditions as the sun moves accross the sky.

[Hip's Ax]

First off, let me state I am a bullseye shooter, not a silouette shooter.

I have 2 CPA's, one 45-70 for mid range and one 45-90 for long range. Both have Baldwin sights. The Baldwin's were recommended to me because the direction of the knobs is the same as my smallbore and high power Gates, Anschutz and Warner sights. Makes thinking unecessary. The Baldwin graduations are nice and clear.

I can not make any direct comparisons as the CPA's are the only BRCTR's I've ever owned. I've had the 45-70 for a little over a year and have fired three mid range position matches with it and am shooting expert class scores. The 45-90 I just picked up a week or so ago and haven't gotten to the range yet.

With that said I work near CPA and go there in person to pick up my rifles. Paul and his daughter Gail Shuttleworth are incredibly nice folks, they are both shooters (sillouette) so they understand fully where your coming from. The work is incredible, fit and finish is awesome. The rifles are very accurate.

I don't think you can walk out the door with one with sights for $2K though. The Baldwin sights are kind of pricey at $485 for the LR rear and $155 for the globe front. The CPA rifle itself can be had with unfinished stocks for a taste under $2K though.

Call Paul or Gail and see what they think, if you go CPA and Baldwin you'll never need another BPCTR in your lifetime IMHO.

[JSnover]

All of the above named rifles/manufacturers are good choices. Dave Higgintbotham at Lone Star Rifle is another one worth looking into.
lonestarrifle.com

[SharpsShooter]

Hello,

About six months ago, I picked up an H&R Buffalo Classic 45-70 to see if I would like BPCR. Well, to make a long story short, I'm ready for an upgrade!

First off, I can spend up to about $2k not including about $500 for sights. Most of my shooting is 200m or less with about 80% over cross sticks or bench and the rest is offhand. I will likely start occasionally shooting at 1000yd buffalo shoots and BPCR silhouette, so whatever I get has to work for all three styles of shooting.

I'm just about ready to order an unfinished CPA in 45-70 with a 30", #4, tapered full octagon, Badger barrel.

What do you guys think about CPA for BPCR? Would I be better off with a C. Sharps 1885? Or is there a different brand in this price range I should consider?

Also, what do you guys recommend for sights? Are the MVAs really that much better then Baldwins?

What is the advantage of getting a front sight with adjustable windage? It seems if i get an appropriate rear sight, I shouldn't ever need to adjust my front sight.

Thank you for all of the help!

Under 2K? Not a problem. C. Sharps 1875 Rifle w/deluxe vernier Tang & Globe w/spirit level & apertures sights $1730.00, with Single Set Trigger add $125.00

Total $1855 plus tax, shipping etc. Mine shoots ragged hole 10 shot groups at 100yds and for fun we set clay pigeons in the snow on a 300yd distant hillside. If I do my part, it is not a problem to hit them regularly.

SS

[e15cap]

Don't forget to look at Axtell. This is a piece of art that you can take to the range and really enjoy. I think the 77's make 74's look like canoe paddles but that is just my opinion. As for sights, walk the line at any match, and see what sights are being used. These guy's use what works the best and that is MVA. Best Roger

[Jon K]

You can get a CPA for $1950 unfinished + sights and shipping. If you don't mind the work.

Lots of good choices available out there. Just depends on your taste, which flavor do you like? I have a CPA and like it very much, I would buy another, I also have 2 1874 Sharps(Shiloh & C Sharps), and like them also. I looked at the 1885 C Sharps, and shot a couple, I just prefer the DST over the Single Set Trigger.

Baldwin Sights.........I have 3, Sturdy, durable & easy to read graduations.

Adjustable Front? Do you need it, where you shoot? I had one on a Pedersoli(my 1st BPCR) never used adjustment.
MVA or Baldwin should have enough adjustment for most any shooting.

Decisions.......decisions........decisions.......B uy Quality, and don't look back............You'll be Happy.

Jon

[Don McDowell]

There are a few folks shooting CPA's in bpcr competition. Those are pretty good rifles, but your 2k budget will get crowded and overran. There is a used one on buffalo arms consignment page that might interest you.

MVA sights are top of the line, and good sights are always worth the money.
Lee Shavers sights are also good , and not quite as spendy as the MVA's.

C Sharps 75 is probably the best buy in the BPCR market right now. Those are good rifles, and with the deluxe sights, will come in under your 2k budget, and be ready to go to the line and be competitive. Mine will shoot moa and under out to as far as I'm capable of holding to. I've heard alot of how bad CSA is to deal with and how the quality of their guns might not be so good, but that's totally opposite of my experience with them.

Do not overlook the possibility of getting a Shiloh off the rack. From time to time they have a rifle ready to go, just waiting for someone to call. Even the wait for one is worth the anticipation, if you end up ordering .

Also Davidsons Gallery of Guns has the limited edition Winchester Highwalls in the Creedmore configuration , that complete with sights is just over the 2k mark. But you'll need to gear up for the 45-90 with one of those.

[BPCR Bill]

Sharpshooter,
CPA is a nice rifle, as are the Shiloh Sharps, C. Sharps, Axtells, etc. No junk out there. You won't see many CPA 44 1/2's on the Buffalo gong ranges or at the BPCR Silhouette shoots, but you will see them on the Schuetzen ranges. (At least that has been my experience here out west). I have a couple Hiwalls, one is a C.Sharps pistol grip SST, Badger barrel in 45-70, with the MVA Soule Midrange sight. I love that rifle and I won't sell it. As far as sights go, Baldwin makes a good sight, as does MVA. I do recommend the Soule type sight as the repeatability is second to none. If you plan on eventually shooting long range (out to 1000yds), then by all means get a long range sight. You can always shoot midrange with that, but you'll never get to 1000yds with a midrange rig. I have a Shiloh Sharps that I use specifically for 1000 yard work, and it is a 45-110. I shoot a Hoch 550 gr nose pour bullet out of both rifles, very satisfactorily.
I've attached a few pics, one is of the 45-70, and a couple recent targets shot at 100 yards off the bench. The groups weren't that good, but I'll chalk that up to old eyes, peep sights, and a target that doesn't lend itself to a good sight picture.
These targets were shot with 63 Gr Swiss 1 1/2, .030 card wad, no compression.

[BrentD]

Don't forget to look at Axtell. This is a piece of art that you can take to the range and really enjoy. I think the 77's make 74's look like canoe paddles but that is just my opinion. As for sights, walk the line at any match, and see what sights are being used. These guy's use what works the best and that is MVA. Best Roger

Yeah, but Roger he might have to make a date with Al to get it fixed.... Besides, you can't touch an Axtell for $2k. I think they are over 4 now.

:)

I'd avoid the CPA myself. If $2k is the limit, a Shiloh or Pedersoli Sharps or a C. Sharps winchester or a used Browning 85 Winchester remake would be among my choices. I'm not sure if the plain Jane Shiloh will go for $2k though. Might be pushing it.

Hard to beat MVA sights in my mind. But the Buffalo version is too much of a good thing for me.

Brent

[Boz330]

I'm with Don about the C-sharps guns. I have purchased 2 in the last 16 years. Obviously some folks have had problems with customer service. I haven't dealt with them other than on the phone, but they were always helpful and didn't mind answering dumb questions when I first got hooked. Personally I'm not a big 74 Sharps fan so Shilo doesn't make anything that I am interested in. That doesn't make them bad though, they sure make a fine gun, with out a doubt. I like the 77s and the 75s but the 77s are WAY out of my price range. The 75 is sure a lot of bang for the buck if you want to stay on the south side of 2K.

Bob

[August]

I'm partial to hi-walls, so I"ll put a plug in for that option. You can get a 45-70 hi-wall for around 1.5K. In fact, there's one for sale right now at the SASS classified site. I really do like the 45-70 caliber. I really do like Badger barrels.

The only people who think BPCR is expensive are folks that have never owned a boat.

[felix]

Don't forget cars, cameras, planes, etc. Heck, a barrel for a camera costs a whale of a bunch more than one for a BPCR gun. ... felix

[exblaster]

You can follow the crowd or you might try a Peabody.
http://www.peabodyrifles.com/

Exblaster

[SharpsShooter]

Sharpshooter,
CPA is a nice rifle, as are the Shiloh Sharps, C. Sharps, Axtells, etc. No junk out there. You won't see many CPA 44 1/2's on the Buffalo gong ranges or at the BPCR Silhouette shoots, but you will see them on the Schuetzen ranges. (At least that has been my experience here out west). I have a couple Hiwalls, one is a C.Sharps pistol grip SST, Badger barrel in 45-70, with the MVA Soule Midrange sight. I love that rifle and I won't sell it. As far as sights go, Baldwin makes a good sight, as does MVA. I do recommend the Soule type sight as the repeatability is second to none. If you plan on eventually shooting long range (out to 1000yds), then by all means get a long range sight. You can always shoot midrange with that, but you'll never get to 1000yds with a midrange rig. I have a Shiloh Sharps that I use specifically for 1000 yard work, and it is a 45-110. I shoot a Hoch 550 gr nose pour bullet out of both rifles, very satisfactorily.
I've attached a few pics, one is of the 45-70, and a couple recent targets shot at 100 yards off the bench. The groups weren't that good, but I'll chalk that up to old eyes, peep sights, and a target that doesn't lend itself to a good sight picture.
These targets were shot with 63 Gr Swiss 1 1/2, .030 card wad, no compression.

The CPA is a fine rifle and I have seen a couple at sillywet matches. My point was that if you are starting on a budget like most of us did at one time or another the C. Sharps is the avenue to a very good rifle complete with usable sites for under 2000 bucks. The CPA is a bit too pricey and out of the 2k budget for the upgrade rinella wants to accomplish.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/10shot4570GroupNASA-1.jpg

SS

[montana_charlie]

I won't recommend any brand over another, but you should know that the new Pedersoli Hiwall is another option to look at.

As for the utility of a windage adjustable front sight...
The advent of the Soule sight (essentially) eliminated the need for an adjustable front.

All of the well-known makers produce a version of the Soule, and it will get the job done under almost any reasonable circumstance. The next question is if you need that much 'bulk' in a rear sight. If you are primarily a hunter, it really isn't necessary.

CM

[BPCR Bill]

All the aforementined rifle makers provide a good product. I have in my hot little hands the 2009 product catalog from Shiloh Sharps, and it appears the least expensive items are the plain jane Buisness rifle, and the #3 Sporter, both clocking in at $1,800 base price. That is a rifle ready to shoot, with a buckhorn rear sight and blade front. Then you spend upwards of $600 for a good quality tang sight and front globe sight for target work, or hunting if you are so inclined. Back in the day most rifles that were outfitted for hunting with tang sights had the Lyman or Marbles tang sights, and maybe a Beech combination front sight. One other rifle maker that hasn't gotten any press in this discussion is Ballard Rifle, recently relocated from Cody, Wyoming to Michigan. They make a fine product as well, but if you like sticker shock, that's the place to go.

[RMulhern]

Lordy....I hate that term; reminds me of a 'Peeping Tom'!!

Adjustable front sights.....have their place; as for the Soule rear tang....being able to give a lot of windage....yep...they'll do that BUT.....there are occasions whereby upwards of 32 MOA or more might be needed to get anywhere within the vicinity of the paper or steel; just ask some of those old Wyoming/Montana shooters about this!! Therefore....if one DOES NOT have a windage adjustable front sight and all of that windage is cranked in.....that makes the shooter maybe apply unusual pressure, more or less upon the comb of the stock because of the eye having to be moved to one side or the other to get behind the aperture! I DON'T LIKE that at all....so on a serious match rifle....I want and have MVA #112s as my front sights!

And I can tell you, for me....an aperture rear sight for hunting is about as useful as 'tits on a boar hog'!! Under low light conditions....I may as well be locked up in a closet. Therefore I use the barrel sights for hunting and.....THEY WORK once someone spends enough time to learn how to use 'em!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!:drinks::mrgreen::castmine:

[rinella]

Wow, Thank you for all of the replies!

So, I actually am wanting to spend about $2000 on the rifle and another $500 or so on the sights. This isn't rigid, as I'd rather spend a little (not $1000) more to get something I'll be happy with for longer.

Thank you for the suggestions on the other manufacturers. I need to check out Lonestar some more. It looks like the others make Sharps styles. I didn't mention before, but I want something with a slimmer receiver and an inline hammer, like the CPA stevens or high wall.

I love the looks and feel of the C. Sharps 1885, but I have a friend with one in .38-55. The only thing I have ever heard say about it is that the his SST is too light, and no amount of adjustment can fix it. I've seen him "accidentally" fire before he was ready a few times too. He has sent it in a couple of times for repair, but since most of the time I see him, he is shooting a uberti, I know he isn't happy with the C. Sharps. This makes me a little bit nervous to spend this kind of money with them.

On the other hand, another friend shoots a lot of Shutzens with his two CPA rifles, and I have never heard him say anything bad about them. Why is it, do you think, that there aren't more CPAs in BPCR?

As for the rear sight, the only thing I know for sure is that I want the Hadley Eye cup. It seems to me that I can't really go wrong with either Baldwin or MVA, is that correct? The Baldwin comes with the Hadley and is a bit cheaper. If I do save a few bucks with the Baldwin, what will I be missing out on?

How about for the front site? Would a Lyman 17A with spirit level like Buffalo Arms sells for $85 be a bad choice?

Thank you for all of your suggestions and help!

[montana_charlie]

As for the rear sight, the only thing I know for sure is that I want the Hadley Eye cup. It seems to me that I can't really go wrong with either Baldwin or MVA, is that correct? The Baldwin comes with the Hadley and is a bit cheaper.
Lee Shaver's super grade Soule comes with a Hadley, and costs $345.
He sells through Buffalo Arms, and eBay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Grade-model-Soule-type-tang-sight-for-rifles_W0QQitemZ120201630166QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVin tage_Hunting?hash=item120201630166&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318

CM

[August]

That's the front sight I have on my Brownings and it works great! I never could see the benefit of a windage front sight if one has a Soule sight on the rear, which has windage adjustment. I can't see reaching all the way out to the front of the barrel to adjust windage and I cannot imaging how one gets those things out of, and into a case or cover.

The Shaver also comes with a Hadley eyecup, of a slightly different design than the Baldwin. I have a Shaver Hadley eyecup on one of the Brownings and like it very much. The aperture sizes are very useful for changes in conditions and I've never run out of sizes at either end on the range. I am not speaking against the Baldwin or MVA with this comment! I am merely saying I like my Shaver eyecup.

I like the 17 Lyman and, particularly, like the aperture inserts that Shaver offers.

[BrentD]

the Lyman 17A with the bubble on it is just fine. Nothing wrong with that sight at all. I have a few of them. Lots of people make inserts for it too, if you decide you want something different from the stock stuff.

Brent

[BPCR Bill]

I agree with Brent, the Lyman 17A is quite satisfactory for any shooting you can think of, almost. I see some of the fellows here can't understand the need for a windage front sight, so here goes my humble opinion. At longer ranges, say 800 yards and beyond, winds can get ugly. Conditions are not always friendly, and the more windage you can get, the better. If you don't have a Soule tang sight with alot of windage (MVA Buffalo Soule with 88 minutes total windage), then you may have a real hard time with the old Kentucky method. Been there, done that. It depends on the shooting you are going to do.
That being said, if you look at Nick Stroebels book "Old Gun Sights, you'll see alot of these old sights and the applications. Many of the old time target riflemen did not even have windage adjustments on the tang sights, just elevation. They adjusted for windage with the front sight. I would recommend to the newcomer to this to keep things as simple as possible. The more moving parts you have, the harder it gets to manage your rifle. I have seen guys move sight windage the wrong way on more than one occasion, and adjust sights to the wrong range for the target they are about to shoot. And these were experienced BPCR shooters. Happens to the best of us. My long range Shiloh has had a Riflesmith Sharps long range vernier tang sight on it from day one, and it does not have alot of windage adjustment, maybe 20 minutes total. I need to either replace it with the MVA Long Range Buffalo Soule, or get a windage front sight for it. As long as the wind is no more than 15-20MPH at 1000 yards, I can get by. Any more than that, it's just throwing lead downrange. Again, it's all in the type of shooting you intend to do. It doesn't hurt to have an experienced spotter at your side either.

Bill

[RMulhern]

August

"I can't see reaching all the way out to the front of the barrel to adjust windage and I cannot imaging how one gets those things out of, and into a case or cover."

West of the Mississippi River aka Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Kansas, Arizona, New Mexico, etc. shooters are sometimes faced with matches whereby the wind is a CONSTANT 25 MPH and gusting up to 40+; that's just the way things happen! So...."reaching up to make an adjustment".....takes place (one time) BEFORE the shooter even goes to the firing line by adding the estimated windage needed for the CONSTANT VALUE WIND......and then...the shooter can add more off the rear tang by working off of MECHANICAL ZERO which is from center of the scribbed rear tang adjustments! If NOT DONE THIS WAY.....trying to keep track of WHAT'S ON THE RIFLE windage-wise gets rather 'hectic' trying to read those finely scribbed lines! If the shooter KNOWS that a full 20 MOA wind is going to remain throughout the match....he cranks on that amount on the front sight....and then works off the rear tang for possibly 8-10 more MOA as needed! This lets the shooter adjust on an up/down basis as the wind lays or picks back up and it's fairly simple to keep track of the windage on the sight being close to MECHANICAL ZERO!!:drinks:

[EDK]

Sunday at the 2007 Quigley shoot was ugly. It started with a hail storm in Forsyth that gave me $2000 worth of damage on my 2006 Impala. And it didn't get much over 50 all day....on Fathers Day!

The shooters with the mini weather stations on their shooting carts showed wind gusts up to 42 miles per hour. The song is "They call the wind Mariah," but that wasn't what I heard...or thought! AND I wasn't alone. If you haven't been there, you have a unique experience awaiting you. You can clean your car by opening the doors on both sides simultaneously...the wife didn't believe me when I told her "one door at a time" and all her tourist information went flying away.

A 40 MPH crosswind does some interesting things to a 40, 45 or 50 caliber boolit at long range. The only good thing was that the "big time shooters" didn't do much better than us rookies...."Mariah" blew their boolits "h--- west and crooked" too!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[BrentD]

I think EDK has the best suggestion. Personally, I can't imagine needing more than 20 minutes or whatever my regular long range MVA Soule has. But if I did need more, I would simply hold on the next target over. If I crank max windage on my soule, I'm either off the stock to the left or over the top of it to the right. Neither is comfortable, the latter, is painful in the extreme.

I have a windage frontsight on the front of my M77 Axtell right now. In Raton last year, it put about 8 minutes of windange on all by itself. This sight may very well be for sale and a Lyman 17a or a Distant Thunder long range front sight (fixed) would replace it. One less thing to have to worry about.

Brent

[RMulhern]

:(:-?:(

If I've gotta do that.....I'll just stay at the house!!:confused::confused:

[BPCR Bill]

I was there for the '07 Quigley, and I was on the Buffalo target when that wind came up. Not one spotter on the line saw where any of my shots went. I had a full 22 minutes windage and did the Kentucky thang left windage. I was shooting a 550 grain bullet and it was like throwing .22's out there. For those of you who can, Al Lee hosts the 1000yard State Championships in July on that same patch of prairie. I had managed to make it to the last 14 Q's and '07 was by far a dandy for wind.

Bill

[montana_charlie]

If anybody is needing a Lyman 17A, I am about to put one in the Swap and Sell section.
CM

[Mike Brooks]

I just received a CPA 38-55 in silhouette configuration yesterday. It is the unfinished version, got a hell of a deal on Gunbroker and bought it. It's very nice and ought to do everything I need it to do. I'll be putting MVA sights on it. I'll be ordering another CPA shortly in schuetzen configuration and 32-40 due to the quality of the gun I just received. I'll be ordering it as a barreled action as I have the capability of stocking a gun and can save a little money there.
I also have a Lone Star rolling block in 45-90 with a wind adjustable Kelly front sight and a Frank Zika rear. Both the rifle and the sights are top notch, although I can't see that the wind adjustable front sight will ever be used here in the Midwest.
I also just received a soule rear sight with the magnum Hadley eye cup for my Pedersoli 74 Sharps . This sight and eye cup is simply OUTSTANDING!
Now , if I could just steel myself to go shoot today in the -6 and -35 wind chill......ain't gonna happen!

[BPCR Bill]

Mike, I.m heading back to Montana over New Years to shoot the annual "Froze to Death" match with my old shooting buddies. Hopefully it'll be above zero. I figure I'll have to pack alot of cold weather gear so I'm borrowing a friends 45-70 when I get there. That 38-55 is a good little sillouhete rifle, just hit the Rams good and solid!

[Hip's Ax]

Wow! And here I was whining that I don't want to go the range to fire form some 45-90 brass. You guys are tough!

Guess I'll go sit at the bench first chance I get. The thought of you guys actually target shooting in that weather should keep me warm. [smilie=1:

[BPCR Bill]

The one big advantage is all the clothes ya put on. You get all the stuff underneath and put on the Carhartts, it's like wearing one of those $500 shooting jackets that just hold you in position for offhand. I'll post some pics when I get back. At least we're not like some of those idiots that jump into nearly frozen lakes half-naked!

Regards,
Bill

[montana_charlie]

The one big advantage is all the clothes ya put on.

it's like wearing one of those $500 shooting jackets that just hold you in position for offhand.
If you spend a lot of time going down to check targets, that pile of clothes can make you work up a good sweat. Once that happens, you don't want to stay in one position for very long.
If you do, you can enjoy a 'stable shooting position', but your buddies have to load your Sharps for you.

Had one sweaty guy who sat long enough to fire a twenty round string.
It took a front loader to lift him into a pickup, and ninety minutes in a heated shop before we could take his rifle away from him.

We're having something of a heat wave, today. It's 3 above, this morning...
CM

[RMulhern]

Once...when I was 40 or so...and DUMB....I abused my body like that quite often; matter of fact I wound up in the Idaho Falls hospital after suffering hypothermia on an elk hunt! Thankfully....I've gotten older/wiser...such that I enjoy reading about other IDIOTS such as I was at one time!!:mrgreen::wink::drinks:

[BPCR Bill]

If you spend a lot of time going down to check targets, that pile of clothes can make you work up a good sweat. Once that happens, you don't want to stay in one position for very long.
If you do, you can enjoy a 'stable shooting position', but your buddies have to load your Sharps for you.

Had one sweaty guy who sat long enough to fire a twenty round string.
It took a front loader to lift him into a pickup, and ninety minutes in a heated shop before we could take his rifle away from him.

We're having something of a heat wave, today. It's 3 above, this morning...
CM

Charlie, we shoot the steel gongs, a half sillouhete match, and a center spinner. We run out to the targets in a truck to paint if the cans aren't frozen.Set up a Gazebo shelter and we pot-luck grub, usually a big pot of chili and whatever else folks bring. Got a couple portable fire pits and a big gas burner. I imagine if it's at or below zero the shoot won't go as sheduled, but we have shot at 10 above. The only other conditions that stops a Montana match is rain, or if it's snowing so hard you can't see the targets. Running to check targets? That's what a spotting scope is for! Right now out here in Western ORYGUN it's 28 and raining, we had an ice storm last night that left a half inch of ice on 5 inches of wet snow. God I miss Montana. (Did I mention the 1000 yard match at Forsyth one July when it was 127 degrees?)

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Our First mile match last May,

Avg windage for the match was 55 MOA give or take a guess or two as most folks ran out of windage on their MVA Buffalo Soules.

My PP load I had in around 31 to 35 Left most of the two strings I shot.

Plus I had the most hits of the 13 Shooters. Food for thought, Top 3 shooters all have on MVA XLR buffalo Soule Rear sights on their rifles, top 3 places all where shooting 45-110's too.

I have often used 23-25 MOA at 1000 yards in quite a few matches at my range.

The Lunger

[BPCR Bill]

Lunger, how big is the target at 1700 yards? Steel target?

Bill

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The Mile Target at 1760 yards is 15 feet wide 8 feet tall and has a 48 inch round bull mounted in front of the target for a aiming point.

The Lunger

[RMulhern]

at the Mile Match:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/BPCR%20SHOOTING%20RELOADING/1MileShootersWyomingTerritory2007.jpg

[Bullshop]

Kewl, bout like a D-8 cat. That one there be perty close to center, nice shot.
BIC/BS

[BPCR Bill]

That would be a challenge to shoot at. Maybe I'll get there sometime in the future. How often to you have that match?. Maybe I can talk my spotter into driving out with me. Has Jim Terry shot that one?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Jim Terry won the last match in May,

I actually had more hits but Jim connected more times with the bull and thus had the higher score.

The Lunger
PS it will be in May most likely

[BPCR Bill]

I'll try to remember to PM you for a date. I'll be driving back home for the Quigley in June. Might be able to head back a bit early. I drive that far may as well get as much shooting in as I can.

[poquito mas]

I have a roller for sale. .45-100 never loaded. badger bbl. made by Beyond 1000 in salem. have brass,dies. believe "34" bbl. see your in portland. i'm in eugene. tp.miller@comcast.net