Best .223 boolit design for AR’s

[mkj4him]

I need to get a .223 mold for best accuracy and terminal performance for self defence.
Main gun is 16” 223 Wylde 1:8 twist
Secondary is 16” 5.56 NATO 1:7 twist.

I plant to try both regular lubrisized and gas checked as well as powder coated gas checked.

I am thinking I. The 70 to 80 grain range. But need advice on what’s best.

[chickenpot]

I have no experience in the matter, though I will be following this because I have been curious as to how traditional lubed boolits would fare in regards to gas system health.

[mehavey]

Don't mess with traditional lube, and PC will necessarily
change the ogive/seating dimensions for that chamber.
(Ask me how I know)

Use simple (THIN) coat ALOX:
See http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?368459-223-cast-bullets-w-ar15&p=4472544&viewfull=1#post4472544

[sigep1764]

Well, Ive been using an MP 227-75 NATO boolit from MP Molds. There is one available on their website right now. Mine casts about 70 grains and is shot with WLL Carnuba Blue. However, I have ordered some PC from Smoke to try in it. It shoots pretty well with W748. It is the only powder Ive used with the AR's. Was gonna try some others, then the current situation happened. One of my AR's has seen a few thousand of these rounds with no ill effects on the gas system. I do get some carbon build up on the bolt, but nothing Hoppes and a scrub cant clean up.

[fcvan]

I bought the Lyman 225-415 (Lee makes a clone now) and had reasonable success. Great in bolt or single shot, AR 15 kind of beat up the nose during feeding cycle, Ruger Mini 14 was more forgiving. Powder coating toughened the nose and provided some lubricity for reduced friction. When I started powder coating I was spraying with a gun or ESPC. I made a tray to hold the boolits which also kept the PC of the check shank.

Mounting those teeny tiny checks are a pain, even more of a pain to make and then seat. I got the hang of it, but it is time consuming. I learned the 'shake and bake' method as it developed here. Coating pistol boolits became my mainstay. Then, I think a member here inspired or actually designed a non lube groove plain base boolit design made by NOE as the 225-62 RN.

My mold is a 3 banger and I do not regret not buying a 4 cavity mold. Small boolits in a big aluminum mold, speed cast, keeps the mold up to temp just fine. I can drop a pile of boolits in a hurry. While I generally alternate 2 molds while casting, I just use the 223 mold repetitively, only waiting long enough for the sprue to cool. I like to pour front to back in 1 motion, 1 larger puddle or sprue. I set the mold down, pick up the boolits off the folded towel and place gently in a metal container, drop the sprue back in the pot. By this time, the sprue has cooled Ok, I don't wait for the sprue to cool, I blow on it and watch it change, then dump the mold, repeat.

As to gas ports, I first started shooting the Mini with cast. Although a different port, it is still a port. Lubed did not cause any noticeable build up. Anything scraped off would be blown out under pressure. I checked often as this was a new thing. By the time I built an AR 15 I was powder coating. After a couple boxes of (ptui) factory for break in and sight in (used my brother's laser bore sight before range) I switched to cast. I had some lubed, but the first cast ones I fired were ESPCd. The first 5 were under an inch, probably .85 or so. I would call that success. For reference, the load was a book load out of Lyman #49 for the Lyman mold, later chronographed at 2250 fps.

I probably shot that for a year before buying the NOE mold. Every range day, I broke down the AR 15 during cleaning. During range day, I would check the gas key as anything coming out the port would be hitting the key and filling the action with gunk. Nothing noticed beyond the normal burned gunpowder residue.

After I bought the NOE, new boolit, more testing. The carbine initially did not want to cycle, likely due to no gas check and a change in the gas pulse wave or pressure at the gas port, but they did in the Mini 14. By this time I had built an AR 15 7 1/2" pistol, shorter gas port length, they cycled through that, the carbine length system, not so much. I tried increasing the charge slightly laddering up and merely blew the groups up. Oh, Mini 14 has a 1 - 10" rate of twist, Carbine 1 - 9" and the pistol 1 in 7 1/2." I determined the plain base gas check needs a slightly stiffer alloy (50/50 COWW/pure) but haven't tested that yet.

What I did do is to be taken with a word of caution, so folks, don't jump on me too hard. I trimmed the buffer spring in small increments until it cycled. I take the shortened buffer spring to the range, put it in, and put it back after I'm done shooting. If I do shoot at the range with other people around I just don't. Besides, I am generally alone or with my brother, and only bring my cast loads to the range.

I haven't had the chance to rework the load as I was still living and working in CA, and the state wanted to make anything with a bullet button an 'assault weapon.' The bullet buttons were developed to comply with the last law to label them 'assault weapons.' There was no provision for folks who used an AR 15 platform at work to own and practice with that weapon. I took everything 'black and fun' and decommissioned them to 'not accept a detachable magazine' and 'fire in a semi automatic fashion' then took them out of CA, and back to America. Be of good cheer, a Federal Judge ruled that magazine limits unduly infringes on our rights to keep and bear (30 rounds is standard issue for the platform) the AR 15 is most suitable for personal defense, and particularly useful for use by the Unorganized Militia, as defined by US Code 10 246, as follows:

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Gee, a Federal judge in CA that actually reads the constitution and Federal law. For 48 hours, High Capacity Magazines were lawful, that is before a motion to stay his decision pending appeal. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program . . .

Yes, cast can be shot well, yes they can be finicky, in my experience they do not cause undue fouling of the operating system. Gas checks are cheap if you buy them from a vendor here and there is plenty of posts here on how to make installing them less of a pain. Such as:

I have a primer tray with ribs for flipping the primers, they flip gas checks too. Lightly push the gas check shank onto the check. Place on hard surface to make sure they are starting square and straight. I use Lee push through now, but do have a Lyman 450. Anyway, insert boolit into sizing die, bump the base with the stem a time or two to finish seating the check before pushing it through, inspect. If I attach the checks and the ASBBPC I will have to wear gloves, coat and bake, then size again, or go back to ESPC and only size once, probably my first choice. YMMV

Edited to add: I have 10 pounds of the Lyman and 20 pounds of the NOE cast and coated, and plenty of the checks. I just am currently out west, not in the Rockies at the moment.

[mkj4him]

Wow! Thank you sir! Can you please provide a link to those selling bass checks on this site? Thank again.

[7br]

The following is my opinion and others will probably disagree. Cast in a smallbore AR15 is great for target work, but I would not trust them to protect me from anything much larger than a coyote. The best accuracy is probably going to be around 1800-2100 fps. Hard cast doesn't expand and my experience with powder coat and small bullets has not been pretty. I feel you would be better off using cast for practice and jacketed for business. All of that said, they would still beat a sharp stick.

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[mkj4him]

Thanks for your comment. I’m sure I’ll do target shooting with them if I get decent accuracy. I have plenty of fmj’s but wanted to work a good cast recipe just in case if you know what I mean. I want a mold that will give me 68 to 77 grains if possible. I think this weight range would be more effective and possible more accurate than the 55’s. Especially for my twist rates.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd be curious to learn how it works for ya.

I didn't think cast would do well in a AR since I've heard ya can't pump them up very fast for what a gas gun likes, and still cycles,
and there is an issue for me with those little bitty gas checks.

Something I have thought about was casting them in a heavy weight design mold, but use Zinc.
People say you can get them up to jacketed speeds, and a 70 gr. mold should drop a Zinc boolit at around 42-45 gr.
From watching youtube, lots of folks are switching over to Zinc as cheap Lead is drying up.

[7br]

I am running cast in my 6.8 spc with good accuracy and reliable functioning. If you have issues, you can go to an adjustable gas block. I am also running cast in a Garand and a M1A with good results. I haven't worked with .223/5.56, but others on the board have. H4895 works well for me.

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[mkj4him]

I'd be curious to learn how it works for ya.

I didn't think cast would do well in a AR since I've heard ya can't pump them up very fast for what a gas gun likes, and still cycles,
and there is an issue for me with those little bitty gas checks.

Something I have thought about was casting them in a heavy weight design mold, but use Zinc.
People say you can get them up to jacketed speeds, and a 70 gr. mold should drop a Zinc boolit at around 42-45 gr.
From watching youtube, lots of folks are switching over to Zinc as cheap Lead is drying up.

Well how cheep is zinc and where do you locate it? Any free sources?

[Winger Ed.]

Well how cheep is zinc and where do you locate it? Any free sources?

I've heard scrap yards are buying it for 25 cents a pound.

For the last few years most new tire weights are Zinc, and with the scrap price on it being so low
and labor intensive to smelt the clips off of them---
make your best deal, but you can probably get all you can carry just for asking if you're in there getting work done,
or for a 12 pack of beer.

Now days, wheel weights out of the tire shops is running about 60-70% Zinc ones.