.243 losing popularity?

[mike britton]

So I'm pipe dreaming my next left handed rifle and I'm looking at everything I can find to fill my feeble brain with information.
I'm looking at GB, and all the magazines I can to see what is out there and I'm seeing that a lot of the new offerings from the manufactures seem to be replacing the .243 with 6.5 Creedmore.
It got me wondering, is the .243 losing popularity? I cannot imagine in what is left of my life time that the venerable .243 would go away, and if it did ammo and brass will be available into the next century. Won't it!?:-?

[reloader28]

The Creedmore is gaining popularity around these parts, but I dont think it will ever replace the 243. As far as I'm concerned its one of those "fads".
It is an accurate cartridge but too slow for me with much better options available

[richhodg66]

I don't own one an never really wanted one, but I doubt the .243 is going anywhere any time soon. Maybe not as popular as it was at one time, but it's going to be a strong seller for the foreseeable future.

[Pete44mag]

Don't worry about .243 brass going away anytime soon. If you can't find .243 brass just neck down .308 to .243 and your done. The .308 is the parent cartridge to the .243. Besides the U.S. Military and NATO use the .308 so it's here for a long, Long time.

[white eagle]

never really saw the use of a 243 but I doubt it will fade away
lots of folks let their kids and women use it for beginning deer hunting
pretty popular for a coyote rifle as well
I would and do,rather have a 6.5 Creedmoor over a 243 win just more versatile

[richhodg66]

"I would and do,rather have a 6.5 Creedmoor over a 243 win just more versatile"

Agreed and same here.

[txbirdman]

Also 6.5 CM has better barrel life than .243.

[farmbif]

the 243 is a inherently flat shooting caliber if 100 grain bullets at 3000fps isn't enough for what your wanting to do the 6.5 you can get a 120 grain bullet to 3000 fps with the right powder. but the long range standard seems to be right around 140 grain bullets from what I understand and shoot in the creed moor, but I'm no long range marksman, just like to shoot at stuff across the field out back. they are both super flat shooting rounds. 243 brass and bullets might be easier to find but lots of great long range hunting bullets have been developed for the creedmoor in recent years. its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other. my b14 bergara 6.5 shoots right about 1/2" groups at 100 yards right out of the box but the old savage 111 in 243 is no slouch.

[sparky45]

6CM is gaining in popularity as well.

[Gtrubicon]

I wanted and still want a 243, I ended up with a 6.5 tika ctr instead, then I bought my son a 6.5 tikka ultra light, don’t get me wrong, they are fabulous rifles. But I still want a 243, from varmint to deer, it is a proven caliber. My dad has one I grew up shooting with. Light recoil, one of the flattest trajectory out there. I feel it’s not going anywhere. It’s a shame that most of the rifles offered in this caliber are sized for youth. It’s a top notch round.

[Three44s]

When I began handloading my coyote hunting mentor convinced me that 243 was a better night hunting cartridge than the 22-250 or 220 Swift. That was 1975 and I was 19 years old.

I ended up buying a Ruger 77V in 1976 in 243 Win, a Liberty model after a brief stint with a Winchester 670 in the same cartridge.

I still have that Liberty Ruger with the same barrel and it is still a tack driving death ray on coyotes! Is it harder on barrels than say the 6.5 Creedmore? Perhaps.

But I have always refrained from shooting at lesser varmints with it. And if I ever manage to burn that barrel out, I figure it will deserve a well earned rebarrel because the coyotes killed will be darned well worth it.

That said, I kill coyotes with just about everything from 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet, 22k, 222, 223, 22-250, 243, 6 mm Rem, 25-06, 357 Mag, 44 mag and even a Keltec PF-9 ...... yes a belly gun in 9mm Luger!

So after 45 years what do I think of the 243 Win? Well, if I had never strayed around and played the field of varmint cartridges and stuck exclusively with the cartridge, I would have not missed much where killing coyotes is concerned.

Three44s

[dverna]

I owned one and it was ok. But there is no place for it in my needs. I have a few .223’s for fun shooting and varmints. No need to burn more powder in the .243. I hunt with a .308...so what would a .243 do?

The 6.5 CM is the latest fad, but no better than what I have for what I need killing. If I get so crippled up I cannot shoot a .308, I will add a muzzle brake or get a .260. At least brass for the .260 will never be a problem.

But the .243 is going to be around for a long time.

[Texas by God]

In my family, the .243 has been used for decades for deer on down and my grand nieces in Colorado kill elk with theirs. The secret? Bullet placement. Don't take chancy shots. Ive always liked the 6mm Remington better because I am a gun nut, but my third largest buck here and many does, coyotes, a few pigs and High Plains Poodles have been twofourtythreed by me. Its a classic, its staying.

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[1hole]

... I still want a 243, from varmint to deer, it is a proven caliber. My dad has one I grew up shooting with. Light recoil, one of the flattest trajectory out there. I feel it’s not going anywhere. It’s a shame that most of the rifles offered in this caliber are sized for youth. It’s a top notch round.

Absolutely true. It was about '71 when W'by started their Vanguard line and one of their first non-magnum cartridges was .243; I was young then and lusted for one. After a few months of agony, I got it. Still have it and am still glad; it has never let me down. It's deadly on crows and groundhogs to maybe 300 yards, southern white tail and, with 85gr cast, squirrel. Of course I could have done the same things with my Rem 700 in .30-06 but it's not as much fun to shoot. And I've not found my -06 to kill deer a bit faster or more reliably.

Will my barrel last as long as a 6.5? Dunno, don't care; it's not a range toy to burn ammo with so it's still good as new. Is it as versatile as a 6.5? I don't know, don't care; my .243 still does what I need every time it's fired. But, if I wanted maximum versatility I'd still have my .458 Win; THAT BEAST will kill anything on the face of the earth.

My poor right shoulder got destroyed in a T-bone auto accident in '80; it's nylon and titanium now so the big gun went away without firing it again. And I don't fire many heavy 30-06 loads either, 'cause I don't need 'em. But my .243 (and .22-250) still get used fairly often because they still do what I need done.

No offense meant to anyone but we gunners do tend to be trendy. We often follow after the latest and supposedly "best" new cartridges (and guns and scopes, etc.) ever produced.

I'm thinking of all the new cartridges that have been marketed since I got my .243 and sold like crazy for a short time but are no longer produced while the old rounds still keep trucking tells me something useful. I think. ??

[SweetMk]

The only way .243 will be popular in 20 years,, is if someone figures out how to chamber it in an AR15 ,,,,,,,,,,,

[DDriller]

The only way .243 will be popular in 20 years,, is if someone figures out how to chamber it in an AR15 ,,,,,,,,,,,

They do them in AR10 now. Will never work in an AR15 due to length.

[M-Tecs]

The .243 has been extremely popular since it's introduction and it will remain so for a very long time.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/prolific_rifle_cartridges_2019.html

[richhodg66]

The only way .243 will be popular in 20 years,, is if someone figures out how to chamber it in an AR15 ,,,,,,,,,,,

If Ar-15s are even still legal in a year or two.

I think it'll remain popular for a long time. I own a 6mm and like it, inherently better cartridge, but still seems too light for deer and too much for varmints.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?

[dverna]

If Ar-15s are even still legal in a year or two.

I think it'll remain popular for a long time. I own a 6mm and like it, inherently better cartridge, but still seems too light for deer and too much for varmints.

Agree. Biggest varmint here is a coyote and .223 is plenty. And if I am going to hunt deer the .308 is a better choice.

[Petrol & Powder]

Getting back to the OP's statement, "...I'm looking at GB, and all the magazines I can to see what is out there ......" brings us to the need to ALWAYS CONSIDER THE SOURCE.

Gun Broker and most gun magazines, exist to SELL things. So they may not be the best sources of knowledge and information.

I'm not going to disparage the 6.5 Creedmoor but I will say that the bandwagon for the 6.5 CM is big & loud.
The 6.5 CM fits right in between the 243 Win and the 7mm-08. And while the 6.5CM is based on the 30 TC case and not the 308 Win case like the other two cartridges, it really isn't anything more than the middle child of that family.

So, is the 243 Win. (a 6mm short action cartridge) going away because there's this new 6.5mm short action cartridge available - Probably NOT.

The gap between 243 Win and 308 Win is currently filled by the 7mm-08. Marketers are attempting to squeeze more sales out of that arena by heavily (and I mean really heavily) pushing the 6.5 CM. I can't predict the future but I can observe current marketing; the current marketing push for the 6.5CM is strong.

Will the 6.5 CM kill off the 243 Win.? , I doubt it.
Will the 6.5 CM kill off the 6.5 x 55 ? maybe in the U.S.

[Texas by God]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?No. The deer don't run off, either.

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[reloader28]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?


I dont remember recovering a bullet and we've shot a pile of deer with 243 from 40yds to 425yds. Its the perfect deer/coyote rifle in my opinion. I do know it will go completly thru the neck at 350yds or so.
We use Hornady SST's. Some people dont like them but they sure work for us

[SSGOldfart]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?

Yes Sir I've only had to track a couple over many years.

[brass410]

my first centre fire rifle was a 243 788 remington , its an incredibly accurate rifle for me and it has certainly put down a lot of vermin and game from whitetails and even 1 not so wary bull moose ( I'm was an awesome marksman at an incredible 12 yards) I have like most others added to the collection but it will always be my go to for small game. I dont believe it will be going away anytime soon.

[Ural Driver]

I own two and find them pretty much perfect for these Texas sized deer as well as coyotes. And, as with all of the other calibers I use, I can find ammo anywhere I happen to be.

[RU shooter]

The 243 will not die out just too many in circulation . Yeah the the new 6.5 is popular now due to the writings and glowing reports of the gun rags but in honesty for 90 percent of use normal shooters and hunters the 260 Rem is every bit as good or better but it's popularity is fading . But there wasn't near as many 260's sold compared to the 243.

[kaiser]

The .243 has always been the "in-between" caliber where many a discussion (some heated) centers around its adequacy for deer size game. Remington added fuel to the fire when they introduced the .244 (aka 6mmRem) with its slower twist barrel that made 6mm bullets as accurate as throwing rocks (sarc). Just like most calibers, when cartridges are mated with the proper designed bullets for the task, they work. The .243 did not have the best designed bullets when introduced, but they had little recoil and most guns were very accurate. If they took deer size game at reasonable (?) ranges, they worked extremely well as they do today. However, it was when a hunter decided to demonstrate his shooting abilities over his hunting abilities and stretch the maximum range a couple of hundred yards further than normal where the older designs failed to perform. I own, and have kept, a .243 for one reason - I covet the rifle it is housed in over the cartridge it shoots. My rifle? A Sako Carbine that weighs more than it has to, but because of its "bull" barrel, is a one hole shooter. This rifle and cartridge has never failed me, although I have failed to direct it properly a few times. The cartridge is easy to load, easy to shoot, and has sufficient power for the ranges I normally hunt. While I have bigger calibers, including the "magical" 6.5, when I hunt deer around the home plot it is usually with a rifle I love to carry; that favorite is my .243Win. My .02

[M-Tecs]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?

Killed between 40 and 50 whitetail bucks and a few does with a 243 most with one shot. Depending on angle and size I found a couple of bullets just under the skin. Never lost one or had a hard recovery.

[M-Tecs]

While per Dave Emary Hornady's senior ballistics scientist the Creedmoor’s parent case is the .30 TC that is mostly marketing hype since both the 30 TC and the Creedmoor's can be formed from 22-250 brass. It's actually the brainchild of Denise DeMille and like a whole host of others like the 6mmXC, 240 NMC, 6mm International and the 6mm-250 it's based of of a 22-2250 case. .30 TC sound better than 22-250.

The 6.5 CM was designed for NRA HighPower so the longer 6.5 bullets could be used in a 308 length magazine. With the same bullet the 260 Rem too long to load in the mag.

For the average hunter the 243 is a better choice than the 6CM and the 260 Rem is a better choice than the 6.5CM.

None of the Creedmoor's would have gotten any traction if not for the marketing genius of the PRC TV shows. To play the game you need very long for caliber target bullets if you want to used 308 length magazine rifles.

[Screwbolts]

Yes, What M-tecs says.

[mike britton]

Thanks for all the responses!
Back in the 70's I had a 6mm Rem leftie 788 and my uncle had a Ruger 1B in .243. We used the same load for both cartridges, and he was always annoyed that my lowly 788 would shoot with his 1B all day.
This is all leading up to me having another leftie in a 6mm cartridge.
If I end up with say, a Savage 110L the choice will be 6mm Rem as the 110 is a long action. If the action turns out to be a 700 Rem short action, the choice will be .243. Personally, I consider the .243 and 6mm Rem to be nearly identical in performance.
I found a 110L at last week's gun show but it was a 7 Mag and for what the seller wanted for a rifle in that condition, I didn't want to spend the extra for a new barrel. Not to mention the issue with the bolt face.
I'll find a leftie, even though they seem to be more scarce than they were. I can start with a bare action, but that will cost me much more than converting an already built leftie to the barrel I want.

[444ttd]

It got me wondering, is the .243 losing popularity? I cannot imagine in what is left of my life time that the venerable .243 would go away, and if it did ammo and brass will be available into the next century. Won't it!?:-?


in my opinion, no, tho it should have a long time ago, in my opinion.

i've had the 243 many times(rem adl, bdl, cdl & m7). i've reloaded for it(hornady, speer, sierra, barnes x bullet). and i have shot (shoulder/behind the shoulder) and tracked deer(50-250yards) with little or no blood on the ground. i gave up on the 243 about 20+ years ago.

my friend tho, has a 243 in rem m788 and he swears by it. in close to 40 years, he has only one buck that was wounded. it survived about 3 or 4 days till his cousin, while hunting, walked up on it and he shot it(about 4 or 5 inches) into its head.

in my opinion, the 25 cal should be used. whenever i'm asked about "what caliber", i say the 7-08 with factory loads and 7x57 with handloads. with younger gents and ladies, i say 7-08(factory loads) and the 6.5 creedmoor(handloads). the choice of rifle should be young gents and ladies choice.

i have used all three(7-08, 7 mauser, 6.5cm) on deer hunting and found them incredible on deer. most of the deer are drt, but there's always a couple of deer that run, but thats only about 20-40 yards after the shot.

i deliberately left out the 260 rem. its a great cartridge that was forgotten by remington. in 30 or 40 years from now, the 260 will be gone and forgotten. the 6.5cm will probably be there.

[redriverhunter]

While I have no first hand experience taking game with the 243 win. I know a guy who has hunted the past two seasons with an ar in the 6.5 creedmore. He told the other day he is going back the 243. His shots are some where between 175 to 230 yards. He was telling that the 6.5 does not drop the game like his 243. I can only guess why the 6.5 is not performing better seems like a heavier bullet and bigger bullet maybe the barrel on his ar is shorter thus lose in speed. I got a Thompson center in 243 win. and have shot it a bit with 100 an 95 gn bullets propelled by H4831. I now know why people like it is a real easy shooting cartridge. I am going to try and take a few hogs with at about 175 yards gotta see for myself.

[David2011]

Getting back to the OP's statement, "...I'm looking at GB, and all the magazines I can to see what is out there ......" brings us to the need to ALWAYS CONSIDER THE SOURCE.

Gun Broker and most gun magazines, exist to SELL things. So they may not be the best sources of knowledge and information.

I'm not going to disparage the 6.5 Creedmoor but I will say that the bandwagon for the 6.5 CM is big & loud.
The 6.5 CM fits right in between the 243 Win and the 7mm-08. And while the 6.5CM is based on the 30 TC case and not the 308 Win case like the other two cartridges, it really isn't anything more than the middle child of that family.

So, is the 243 Win. (a 6mm short action cartridge) going away because there's this new 6.5mm short action cartridge available - Probably NOT.

The gap between 243 Win and 308 Win is currently filled by the 7mm-08. Marketers are attempting to squeeze more sales out of that arena by heavily (and I mean really heavily) pushing the 6.5 CM. I can't predict the future but I can observe current marketing; the current marketing push for the 6.5CM is strong.

Will the 6.5 CM kill off the 243 Win.? , I doubt it.
Will the 6.5 CM kill off the 6.5 x 55 ? maybe in the U.S.

For energy levels, yes. For ballistic coefficient, no. To equal the BC of the 6.5mm bullet in any other caliber requires heavy-for-caliber bullets and sometimes faster than normal twist rates.

The high BC gives the 6.5 disproportionately higher energy downrange.

[Duckiller]

To correct a misstatement. The 22-250 is not the base cartridge. The base cartridge is the 250-3000 now known as 250 Savage. One of the first wildcats bases on this cartridge was what became the 22-250. Both are good cartridges, have a gun in each.

[243winxb]

My choice today would be a Ruger Precision Rifle chambered in 6mm Creedmoor with a 1:7.7" twist and 24" barrel or same in different brand.

In 243 win, need a fast twist barrel, these days.

[Shawlerbrook]

There are so many choices in a mid range caliber rifle that new 243’s are being crowded a bit. That said, it will not fade away the same way the 30 30 didn’t fade away.

[country gent]

I shot 243 in High Power rifle matches it was very good there. Flatter shooting and like a laser over all. I used it in 1000 yd matches even. My rifle was set u with a 1-7 twist hart OTC barrel. Easy to find good loads for and load . very accurate. For 200 and 300 yds I used 95 grn bullets, for 600 on out it was 107 JLKs vld offering. or bergers 115 and a few 107 sierras. My only complaint in this use was it was a barrel a year cartridge. I think the best I got was 2500 tds before x ring count started dropping. The newer 6x and others are meant to match performance with better barrel life. A couple rel performers are the 6 and 6.5 X 284 but again real barrel burners.

For most the 243 covers an awful lot of hunting, from ground squirrels to deer sized, and at the rate they brn ammo barrel life is way down on the list.

My AR-10 has 2 uppers 1 in 22-250 with a 1-7 twist kreiger barrel. This upper with 80 grn vlds is a tack driver and very capable. The other is a 243 win set up as stated above. The first was a pre 64 model 70 built into a OTC rifle.

With the lighter bullets its a very good varmint rifle with heavier it moves into the larger varmints and deer sized game

[JWFilips]

The .243 Winchester Hopefully will endure! The 6 MM Remington tried to put it out of business I feel it failed
Dang! Just look at it It is a sexy cartridge! You may as well say Marilyn Monroe should be replaced! Oh yes they tried with Twiggy!

The only rifle I ever achieved 4000 Fps with ( of course I fried the barrel after 600 rounds)

[Petrol & Powder]

For energy levels, yes. For ballistic coefficient, no. To equal the BC of the 6.5mm bullet in any other caliber requires heavy-for-caliber bullets and sometimes faster than normal twist rates.

The high BC gives the 6.5 disproportionately higher energy downrange.

While I don't disagree at all; it is not a serious consideration for most hunters/shooters.
You have to get way out there before the advantages of a 6.5CM begin to be real factors.
If I was target shooting at long ranges and wanted (or was required to use) a short action, the 6.5CM may very well be the best choice. Not sure.

The 6.5CM gets a lot of hype and a lot of marketing. I'm not saying its a bad cartridge, I'm saying I've seen this act before.
Short/fat cartridges are very efficient and can be very good performers. But there needs to be big gains before before those improvements really tip the scales.

I'm not disparaging the 6.5CM but I'm not convinced the gap between the 243 and 7mm-08 is big enough to require some short action cartridge in the middle. The marketing people think I'm wrong and I may be.

SO - getting back to the OP's question about the 243 being in danger because of the 6.5CM in the market - I just don't think there's a big enough gap between what the 243 does and what the 7mm-08 does (both outstanding cartridges in my book) that the 6.5CM will kill off the 243.

[gwpercle]

The 6.5 Creedmore is simply " The New Kid In Town" in a few years another "new kid" will come along .
I well remember when the 243 came to town ... new kid who could do it all ... wood chucks to deer, flat trajectory and no recoil ... you had to have one . Now is where you play the Eagles song ...New Kid in Town .
It's still a good round . My first rifle was a 30-06 , next a 7X57 Mauser and last a 30-30 ... there isn't much those three wont handle so I have no big burning need for the 6.5 CM but it to is a good cartridge . The 243 has proven itself and lots of them are in the hands of happy hunters . Think about what you want to do with it , pick accordingly and have fun ...that's what it's all about !
Gary

[Petrol & Powder]

"The New Kid in Town" is an excellent description.

Sometimes the new kids stays around and is useful, sometimes he drifts on down the road. Only time will tell.

[mike britton]

"Think about what you want to do with it , pick accordingly"

I plan to punch paper with it. But if the opportunity to hunt ever appears, maybe still hunt with it.
With that in mind, I'm going with a varmint weight barrel, maybe somewhere around .800 at the muzzle. Classic style stock, Scope mounted.
I like irons, but I'm losing to glaucoma so there's that.
Probably be a 100 yard fun gun. I have "big 30's", but they are too punishing on this 70+ beat up body, hence the change to 6mm. My .223 is like Chinese food. 30 minutes after I leave the range I want to shoot some more! LOL
Maybe something like my Savage 110L in '06, only a bit less of a hammer!

[lightman]

I don't think the 243 is going anywhere. There are a lot of new 6MM cartridges nowadays that are getting some of the 6mm market but a lot of them are only available to handloaders. You won't find ammo for them at Walmart or at the corner hardware store. As far as the CM's go, time will tell if they are here to stay or not.

I built a custom 243 a few years ago. I looked at all of the 6mm choices and chose the 243 because it can do everything that any of the other 6mm's do. Mine has a fast twist barrel but I use it on Prairie Dogs at long range. When the barrel is shot out I will probably go back with a 6BR.

A lot of my friends got 243's for their Sons and Daughters to deer hunt with. They work ok with good shot placement. Most use a premium 100 grain bullet. They shoot pretty flat and the recoil is mild.

[perotter]

IMO, "The New Kid in Town" is a good way to sell new rifles.

[curioushooter]

I just bought a 6.5 Creed Hawkeye left handed. Wish I did it a LONG TIME AGO.

6.5mm, especially in the Creed, is perhaps the most versatile bottle neck cartridge there is with jacketed bullets.

There are good varmint offerings (<100 grains), medium game offerings (110-140 grains), and even big game bullets (>140). I haven't messed with varmint stuff yet, but the 129 grain Hornady Interlock is a solid deer bullet and not crazy expensive. The 140 speer hot cor is great too. Scary accurate. Should I ever want to go after Elk (like in that magical future where I have the money and retain basic liberties) I will get some big game bullets.

6mm and .257 have no popular big game bullets. These are varmint and deer cartridges. For just a little more caliber and cost you can make weight for big game with the 6.5, which does have big game bullets, and always has. It is truly a varmint/deer/elk caliber and has less recoil and cost compared to larger calibers. I think 6.5 has a bright future. I think 6mm, .257, 7mm, and .338 don't. In the end I think a consolidation into .233, 6.5, .308, 358 is going to happen. Just look at how 300 Blackout has basically smashed 6.8 SPC. I have no doubt 6.5 Creede is not only smashing all the other 6.5s except maybe the venerable Swede and the Grendel, it is smashing 6mm and .257.

The 155 grain Lapua Mega, the 160 grain Hornady Interlock, are all old and well known proven bullets. The 143 grain Hornady VLD-X bullet is rated for big game (300 lbs +). And these smaller 6.5 bullets are usually less expensive than 30 caliber or even 7mm.

Dwell on the fact that 6.5 mm can deliver a lot of energy at distance despite relatively modest muzzle data. 6.5 has the sleekest bullets of all the calibers it seems.

The 6.5x55 Swede has a long and storied history. The Creed equals or exceeds its performance with lighter charge weights in a short action cartridge with standard head size.

The 1:8 twist standard in Creeds is perfect.

No bottle neck cartridge I've ever worked with has gone as far without needing neck sizing.

I say if you think you want a DO it all rifle using J-words you can't go wrong. Sort of like .30-'06, only smaller, more efficient, and with cheaper bullets.

[1hole]

Do you fellows that deer hunt with a 243 get exit wounds and decent blood trails?

Well, yes but I only take heart/lung shots no matter what I'm using so the longest blood trails I've ever had to follow were less than 50 yards.

IF I were concerned about big exit holes I'd chose a premium bullet (Nosler) but I've only used common 100 gr Rem Corelocks and similar Hornady's; haven't seen any difference in effect between them. (Nor any difference in effect with my next most used .30-06 except there's a lot more blood-shot meat with it.)

[richhodg66]

I just bought a 6.5 Creed Hawkeye left handed. Wish I did it a LONG TIME AGO.

6.5mm, especially in the Creed, is perhaps the most versatile bottle neck cartridge there is with jacketed bullets.

There are good varmint offerings (<100 grains), medium game offerings (110-140 grains), and even big game bullets (>140). I haven't messed with varmint stuff yet, but the 129 grain Hornady Interlock is a solid deer bullet and not crazy expensive. The 140 speer hot cor is great too. Scary accurate. Should I ever want to go after Elk (like in that magical future where I have the money and retain basic liberties) I will get some big game bullets.

6mm and .257 have no popular big game bullets. These are varmint and deer cartridges. For just a little more caliber and cost you can make weight for big game with the 6.5, which does have big game bullets, and always has. It is truly a varmint/deer/elk caliber and has less recoil and cost compared to larger calibers. I think 6.5 has a bright future. I think 6mm, .257, 7mm, and .338 don't. In the end I think a consolidation into .233, 6.5, .308, 358 is going to happen. Just look at how 300 Blackout has basically smashed 6.8 SPC. I have no doubt 6.5 Creede is not only smashing all the other 6.5s except maybe the venerable Swede and the Grendel, it is smashing 6mm and .257.

The 155 grain Lapua Mega, the 160 grain Hornady Interlock, are all old and well known proven bullets. The 143 grain Hornady VLD-X bullet is rated for big game (300 lbs +). And these smaller 6.5 bullets are usually less expensive than 30 caliber or even 7mm.

Dwell on the fact that 6.5 mm can deliver a lot of energy at distance despite relatively modest muzzle data. 6.5 has the sleekest bullets of all the calibers it seems.

The 6.5x55 Swede has a long and storied history. The Creed equals or exceeds its performance with lighter charge weights in a short action cartridge with standard head size.

The 1:8 twist standard in Creeds is perfect.

No bottle neck cartridge I've ever worked with has gone as far without needing neck sizing.

I say if you think you want a DO it all rifle using J-words you can't go wrong. Sort of like .30-'06, only smaller, more efficient, and with cheaper bullets.

I bought a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor about a year ago and like it a lot. Now that deer season is over, I am gonna try cast in it. Between the ones Dad had and the ones I have left over from the abortion that was my Swedish Mauser time, I have a lot of 6.5 cast bullets.

Whether I try to deer hunt with cast in it remains to be seen. I have successfully hunted deer with cast in a 7mm, doesn't seem like it would be much different.

[firefly1957]

Few know but the .243 can be had in a AR-10 platform , I do not care for any of the AR's but i think a AR-10 with a upper in .243 Winchester and a upper in .338 Federal would be a heck of a thing to have!

[Big Boomer]

"Few know but the .243 can be had in a AR-10 platform , I do not care for any of the AR's but i think a AR-10 with a upper in .243 Winchester and a upper in .338 Federal would be a heck of a thing to have!" - firefly1957

I recently had built one of those .243s with a heavy BCA 20" barrel with a long handguard/rail and mounted a good scope on it. Have only fired a few test rounds through it to get scope sighted in and check the test loads. Weather has not been suitable to pursue it further. Operates great so far.

I have a Browning A-Bolt in .243 that has a slower rate of twist and just will not handle 100 grain bullets due to its slower rate of twist. Guess it was made for lighter bullets, 85 grains and down. Have some cast boolits to try in it. The BCA barrel has a faster rate of twist, 1 in 8" I believe. Big Boomer

[Three44s]

Then there is the 260 Rem. right off of the 243/308 case. The trick was that Remington did not sell it with tight twist barrels.

You twist up the 260 and it will be right there with the Creed, just a bit more boiler room. I have standard twist Savage take off barrels in 260 bought cheap when the rush was to switch to the “new kid”. My nephew wanted Creed real bad, I said borrow this blued 260 barrel and cure your itch for a spell. The one thing he misses is the tight twist for 140+ gr bullets, oh well! Again you twist the 260 and you are there.

Three44s

[Texas by God]

The .243 will fade away right after the 30-30 does.

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[waksupi]

There are three chamberings that should last for eternity. They are the .243, the .308, and the .358 Win. Why? They are all based on the same brass, all are easy to reform to the desired design, and with the three, you can hunt the world.

[Wayne Smith]

The .243 will fade away right after the 30-30 does.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Amen. That's the best comment yet.

[megasupermagnum]

I just bought a 6.5 Creed Hawkeye left handed. Wish I did it a LONG TIME AGO.

6.5mm, especially in the Creed, is perhaps the most versatile bottle neck cartridge there is with jacketed bullets.

There are good varmint offerings (<100 grains), medium game offerings (110-140 grains), and even big game bullets (>140). I haven't messed with varmint stuff yet, but the 129 grain Hornady Interlock is a solid deer bullet and not crazy expensive. The 140 speer hot cor is great too. Scary accurate. Should I ever want to go after Elk (like in that magical future where I have the money and retain basic liberties) I will get some big game bullets.

6mm and .257 have no popular big game bullets. These are varmint and deer cartridges. For just a little more caliber and cost you can make weight for big game with the 6.5, which does have big game bullets, and always has. It is truly a varmint/deer/elk caliber and has less recoil and cost compared to larger calibers. I think 6.5 has a bright future. I think 6mm, .257, 7mm, and .338 don't. In the end I think a consolidation into .233, 6.5, .308, 358 is going to happen. Just look at how 300 Blackout has basically smashed 6.8 SPC. I have no doubt 6.5 Creede is not only smashing all the other 6.5s except maybe the venerable Swede and the Grendel, it is smashing 6mm and .257.

The 155 grain Lapua Mega, the 160 grain Hornady Interlock, are all old and well known proven bullets. The 143 grain Hornady VLD-X bullet is rated for big game (300 lbs +). And these smaller 6.5 bullets are usually less expensive than 30 caliber or even 7mm.

Dwell on the fact that 6.5 mm can deliver a lot of energy at distance despite relatively modest muzzle data. 6.5 has the sleekest bullets of all the calibers it seems.

The 6.5x55 Swede has a long and storied history. The Creed equals or exceeds its performance with lighter charge weights in a short action cartridge with standard head size.

The 1:8 twist standard in Creeds is perfect.

No bottle neck cartridge I've ever worked with has gone as far without needing neck sizing.

I say if you think you want a DO it all rifle using J-words you can't go wrong. Sort of like .30-'06, only smaller, more efficient, and with cheaper bullets.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time believing anyone could tell the difference on an elk between a 243 win with a 100gr Nolser partition at 3100+ FPS, compared to a 6.5 CM with a 140gr bullet (including partiition) at 2700+ FPS.

I wouldn't use either one for elk since I own a 308 win, but I don't doubt the 243 win and 6.5 CM would be ethical choices as well.

[Murphy]

Texas By God hit the nail on the head.

I've spent most of my 67 years in rural S.E. Oklahoma. Off the top of my head, I can remember even the most remote country stores always having .243, 30-30, 270 and 30-06 on the shelves. To me, it seems the latest and greatest cartridges that suddenly become all the rage fit the AR15 platform.


Murphy

[Winger Ed.]

The .243 will be around, and still be 'on the job' longer than any of us will.

And any place that sells ammo, will always have a few boxes of it on the shelf.

[Tripplebeards]

I own a 243 in a 1967 600, a 700 VLS, and 2 AR 10's. The only thing I wish is I had more brass and bullets to go with them! It's my favorite coyote caliber. I remember back in the 80's and 90's when this caliber was a king for benchrest competition. I tested out my latest 20" BCA 243 upper the other day and it's on it's way back for a barrel replacement. It's the only 243 I owned that wouldn't shoot all its bullets in the same hole.

[white eagle]

Few know but the .243 can be had in a AR-10 platform , I do not care for any of the AR's but i think a AR-10 with a upper in .243 Winchester and a upper in .338 Federal would be a heck of a thing to have!

I have one in 6.5 Creedmoor
that rifle is very,very accurate and puts some bolt guns to shame
that is why I came to the 6.5 game to begin with now I have a bolt gun in same cal and that is another favorite
but can you imagine a AR 10 in 358 win?

[perotter]

The .243 will be around, and still be 'on the job' longer than any of us will.

And any place that sells ammo, will always have a few boxes of it on the shelf.

Around here for years on the rack in the shops, the most common NIB bolt rifles have been in .243.

But as of a few weeks ago no .243 ammo on the shelf.

[Winger Ed.]

Around here for years on the rack in the shops, the most common NIB bolt rifles have been in .243.

Back to their popularity:
As any store/business owner will tell ya, "We stock what sells".

[Finster101]

Around here for years on the rack in the shops, the most common NIB bolt rifles have been in .243.

But as of a few weeks ago no .243 ammo on the shelf.

I don’t think a lot of places have anything on the shelves these days.

[flint45]

I bought a Remington 700 with a scope in 243 At a yard sale I didn’t really want a 243 but it has been a very good rifle Fun to shoot and very accurate and very easy to get ammo for plus I had about 200 empty cases in 243 that I got when I bought a large reloading supplies that someone was selling. Now .243 win.is a favorite of mine.

[Pressman]

All this talk about the 243 going away prompted me to get mine out and give it some love. It's been setting in the safe since 2000 unfired. I need to rectify that this summer. As a young beginner in 1966/67 I decided that I needed certain rifles in various calibers, just as the gun writers told me I did. The 243 was the neatest, best wonder cartridge of the time, so I picked the 6mm Remington.

This is my first 243 rifle and it's a good one. Accurate and pleasant to shoot.
Sporterized Arisaka action, unknown barrel, Herter's stock and Herter's scope. I was given the rifle in 2000 because it had a broken extractor. Easy fix and my love of the 243 began. And, yes there is a sporterized 98 Mauser in the safe in 6mm Remington.

275474

[Texas by God]

Oh- I like that Arisaka, Pressman. Give that thing some exercise!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Winger Ed.]

It's been setting in the safe since 2000 unfired.


I've heard a vicious rumor that if you don't fire guns fairly often, they'll get 'lot rot'
like a car does if it sits too long without being driven occassionally.

[mike britton]

I have an Arisaka battlefield pick up that, unfortunately is too far gone to do anything with.
Shame too, I hear they are good actions to build a sporter on.

[PhatForrest]

243 is a versatile cartridge for the hand loader. You can make screaming lightweight rounds or great long range rounds depending on your barrel twist. Yes, barrel life is shorter.

I picked up a nice 9.125 twist HB 700 from a friend of a friends estate sale a few years ago and fell in love with it. Topped it off with EGW base and rings and an SWFA SS 10x mil/mil scope. Little recoil, fast velocities, and a little bit cheaper to reload for than 7.62 cartridges. There's always 6mm bullets on the shelves.

The creedmoors may be popular, but in the northeast woods where there aren't 1200 yard shoots to be had, I'll stick with the 243.

[dh2]

there is to many 243's out there for supply's to go a way, that would be no worry.
Yes the 6.5 Creedmoor is the latest fade but it a lot of people try to reinvent the wheel, I to take an older way about it, to me the 25-06 has done more deer killing than any other round, I see no way for the 243 or the6.5 to take its place with me.

[parson48]

.243 remains popular here- has been since I bought my Savage 110 back in the mid 80s.

[winelover]

The smallest centerfire in my safe is a 243 Winchester. It's not going anywhere. Tack driver with handloaded 55 grain Nostler BT's. Killed multiple deer with 100 Grain Nostler Partions and Hornady Interlocks. Few were bang flops. Speer 70 grain TNT's, if you preference is for middle of the road bullet weights. Kills everything from small varmints to big game. What's not to like?

I don't own or plan to own anything chambered in .223/5.56 NATO. Don't even stock SRP in my stash.

Winelover

[Three44s]

Seems we have a lot of loyal 243 owners here, what a surprise! LOL!

Three44s

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have a couple/a few Savage 99's in .243. I find the .243 is one of the easiest rifles to develop extremely accurate loads suitable for hunting deer and lighter stuff. I would not stay home during elk season if my only rifle was a .243. I know a couple packers, guides and cowboys who shoot their meat elk every year with the .243. My wife has a very long string of one shot kills on antelope with her featherweight Savage 99 .243. We use the Nosler 95gr Partition for the deer and antelope. I think the .243 is the cartridge that replaces the .30-30 for the saddle scabbard and pickup truck in places where the AR15 comes up light, lions, wolves, bears, OH MY remember the S...S...S...

[curioushooter]

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time believing anyone could tell the difference on an elk between a 243 win with a 100gr Nolser partition at 3100+ FPS, compared to a 6.5 CM with a 140gr bullet (including partiition) at 2700+ FPS.

I wouldn't use either one for elk since I own a 308 win, but I don't doubt the 243 win and 6.5 CM would be ethical choices as well.

I disagree. Bullet construction is an important variable and it isn't magic. Some bullets are constructed more sturdily than others. The more sturdy the bullet the less it expands at a given velocity and the deeper it can go. The more weight a bullet retains the deeper it can go. Bullet construction is often tailored to certain velocities.

For example many 30 caliber bullets meant for use in 30-30 have thin jackets and are meant to open up at relatively lower velocities. Same caliber, same weight, and different application. Few if anybody would think of these as ideal for big game let alone dangerous game. They are however good for deer.

Hornady is one of the most forthright of the bullet manufactures stating what game it is meant for and appropriate muzzle velocities.

Hornady lists NO BULLET under 6.5 caliber rated for big game. The 6.5mm 140 grain SST and Interlock, the 143 grain ELD-X, and the 160 grain Interlock are all rated for big game. The 129 grain Interlock, which is a fantastic deer bullet, is not rated for big game.

Sierra is the same deal. The 6.5mm 140 grain Gameking is rated for "heavy game." No lighter bullet (like the 130 grain Gameking) or smaller caliber is rated for "heavy game."

Lapua also lists the 6.5 mm 155 grain Mega bullet for big game. Again no caliber smaller than 6.5 is rated for big game by Lapua.

Speer and Nosler are both more vague, though the 140 grain Hot-Cor is considered a medium game bullet (I've called Speer and asked).

Many would consider 6.5 under caliber for big game. I say it is a minimum based on the very makers' recommendations, who, after all want you to be satisfied with performance. I certainly wouldn't chance things buy using a bullet not even recommended by the manufacturer for the intended purpose, and to date I have found no maker positively rating the use of .243 caliber or even .257 for anything besides medium game.

To me this is a decisive disadvantage to .243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmore. Both are based on the same case, the .308 Win, though unlike the 260 Rem, the 6.5 Creed can actually handle the long heavy bullets and has an appropriate twist rate.

[Garyshome]

Nobody shoots a 243 around where i live.

[am44mag]

I think .243 is losing popularity, but I don't think that means it's going anywhere. I also don't see 6.5 Creedmoor going anywhere. Some might think it's just a fad, but it's a fad that has been going on for 13 years, has probably outsold every other 6.5mm cartridge combined, and has found widespread acceptance as well as some minor military acceptance in some places. If you think it's just going to die off, I feel you are mistaken. I don't think there's a rifle maker out there that doesn't offer it as a clambering unless they focus solely on AR-15s.

[curioushooter]

I normally detest new chamberings in the same caliber that roughly overlap with existing cartridges. So I initially thought the 6.5 Creed was a fad. However, I have been a long time user/admirer of the 6.5x55 swedish mauser and when I wanted to get a 6.5 left handed bolt action I spent a lot of time looking for one in 6.5x55. Turns out that I could get exactly what I wanted (a controlled round feed action in left hand in 6.5mm) in 6.5 Creed Ruger Hawkeye. On paper, 6.5 Creed is equivalent or slightly exceeds the venerable swede. It gets better or equal velocity with the same weight bullet often with lesser powder charges. The sharp shoulder/low case taper design is well known for its accuracy and case longevity and also allows the key advantage (long heavy bullets) of the long action swede work in a short action chambering. The other short action 6.5 chamberings, like 260 Remington, are stillborn in my mind as they cannot do what a 6.5 is supposed to do...launch a 140 grain or heavier projectile and still fit in the action/magazine and not be seated so deep that the ogive comes to full diameter behind the mouth. The 6.5 Creede is the bomb...in my opinion. I don't believe it can be improved upon.

The 6.5 Creed and Ruger Hawkeye are so excellent they are almost dissapointingly boring. The very first loads I tried managed sub MOA without issue (40 grains of H4350 with 140 grain speer Hot cor and standard OAL). These weren't even fire-formed cases either...they were out of the bag...

Then I tried some of that Alliant 16...a powder practically tailor made for 6.5 Creed. Same boringly awesome results, plus another 100 FPS and a baked in copper fouling eliminator!

Varget is an outstanding powder with lighter bullets (130s and less) and often gets away with surprisingly light charge weights. Too bad the stuff is hard to come by lately!

[Lloyd Smale]

looked at two list of top ten rifle calibers sold today and the 243 landed #6 on both. WAY about the creedmore https://chuckhawks.com/best_selling_rifle_cartridges.htm https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-caliber-for-deer-hunting/ Ive never been a cheerleader. But did love my 6mm rem which is about the same thing. Ive killed a truck load of deer with that gun with shots out as far as 400 yards. Dont recall ever thinking to myself after a shot that it was inadequate. I bought 4 cheap 243s for my grandkids. Did so so that i wouldnt have to load a for bunch of different guns for them and so that if i died they could buy ammo ANYWHERE. One howa, 2 savages and a mossberg. I shoot the same load in all three. A 100 grain interlock with 4064. The worse one shoots 1 1/8 5 shot groups and the best one shoots just under an inch. Pretty amazing for 4 different guns shooting the same load which by the way was the first load i whipped up. I had 5oo hornadys and a 8 lb jug of 4064. Figured even if they shot 2 inch it was good enough for what they would do with them. Ill add that i dont recall ever seening a 243 that didnt shoot well or even hearing someone complain about them. My guess is in the REAL world there very little differnce between a 6.5 and a 243. Out to at least 500 yards and even if i know the range will certainly be over 300 id leave both in the safe and grab more gun. To many read those silly guns and ammo articles that writers are paid by gun and ammo manufactures to praise something new so we all go out and buy it. Dont get me wrong theres nothing wrong with the creedmore. I dont own one but do own a grendel and love it. Its just that its no game changer over a 243 or 708 or even a 308.

[mike britton]

Wow! Never thought that I would stir up so much conversation! But I like seeing differing opinions on a subject, and especially when it doesn't turn into a name calling circus.
Thanks to all for a courteous, informed discussion, we can all be proud of ourselves.

curioushooter, I have always liked the Ruger rifles, owned an M77 once, regret letting it go.
I may have to look into the left handed Hawkeye. It's a bit above my pay grade, but if I build my own I'll easily spend that much money.

[MT Gianni]

I disagree. Bullet construction is an important variable and it isn't magic. Some bullets are constructed more sturdily than others. The more sturdy the bullet the less it expands at a given velocity and the deeper it can go. The more weight a bullet retains the deeper it can go. Bullet construction is often tailored to certain velocities.

For example many 30 caliber bullets meant for use in 30-30 have thin jackets and are meant to open up at relatively lower velocities. Same caliber, same weight, and different application. Few if anybody would think of these as ideal for big game let alone dangerous game. They are however good for deer.

Hornady is one of the most forthright of the bullet manufactures stating what game it is meant for and appropriate muzzle velocities.

Hornady lists NO BULLET under 6.5 caliber rated for big game. The 6.5mm 140 grain SST and Interlock, the 143 grain ELD-X, and the 160 grain Interlock are all rated for big game. The 129 grain Interlock, which is a fantastic deer bullet, is not rated for big game.

Sierra is the same deal. The 6.5mm 140 grain Gameking is rated for "heavy game." No lighter bullet (like the 130 grain Gameking) or smaller caliber is rated for "heavy game."

Lapua also lists the 6.5 mm 155 grain Mega bullet for big game. Again no caliber smaller than 6.5 is rated for big game by Lapua.

Speer and Nosler are both more vague, though the 140 grain Hot-Cor is considered a medium game bullet (I've called Speer and asked).

Many would consider 6.5 under caliber for big game. I say it is a minimum based on the very makers' recommendations, who, after all want you to be satisfied with performance. I certainly wouldn't chance things buy using a bullet not even recommended by the manufacturer for the intended purpose, and to date I have found no maker positively rating the use of .243 caliber or even .257 for anything besides medium game.

To me this is a decisive disadvantage to .243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmore. Both are based on the same case, the .308 Win, though unlike the 260 Rem, the 6.5 Creed can actually handle the long heavy bullets and has an appropriate twist rate.

Well that settles it. I can put the 243 away and hunt Elk with a 6.5 Carcano as long as I use a specialty bullet.

[Winger Ed.]

Well that settles it. I can put the 243 away and hunt Elk with a 6.5 Carcano as long as I use a specialty bullet.

I'd suggest a Barnes solid loaded up pretty close to 'the wild side'.

[snowwolfe]

I never seen the need for a .243.
.223 works just fine on coyotes and varmints. .243 is to small for deer unless the shot is perfect.
My two cents worth.

[perotter]

Well that settles it. I can put the 243 away and hunt Elk with a 6.5 Carcano as long as I use a specialty bullet.

A 6.5 Carcano shouldn't need a speciality bullet for elk. Any 160 RN will do the job on North American game, but my 1st choice would be FMJ.

No bad cartridge survives the test of time. None of them are perfect for everything, but many will do the job.

FWIW. When the brown bears in Siberia are real hungry the natives there carry their SKS's and use standard FMJ mil spec ammo.

I've also talked to a few natives from Africa and they use mil surplus in AK's for everything from small game to elephants. They seemed insulted when I asked about a bolt action rifles, as that was something old fashioned and used by their dads or granddads years ago.

[daved63]

It's nice to see that the 243 still has a following. I bought my first in 1980, a Remington 700 with a 22" barrel. It remains one of the most accurate rifles I have. I have owned at least seven different 243 rifles over the years but the Remington 700 is definitely on the keeper list. The thing I have noticed about the 243 in just about every rifle I have owned is that it shoots all bullet weights to very similar points of impact. It does not seem finicky about powder, primer, bullet weight, it just shoots them all well.

The latest addition in 243 for me was the Talo edition Ruger No. 1 Varminter. It has a 26" heavy barrel with a 1:7.7" twist rate. CDNN has them for $1200, which isn't cheap but neither is a custom rifle. Ruger No.1 rifles can be hit or miss in the accuracy department but the one I got is very accurate. Because it is a single shot and has the fast twist barrel you can load the very long low drag bullets to any length needed. It is a tack driver with the long Berger VLD bullets. It also shoots the standard Hornady 100 grain BTSP bullet at 1/2 MOA or better, and I have killed quite a few whitetails with that bullet. I have not tried any of the lighter bullets in it yet. I have only had it for a couple of months and wanted to ring out the long bullets that the fast twist barrel was made for. You are also able to easily get top velocities because of the extra case capacity realized when seating the bullets out close to the lands.

It would work for a lefty just as well as a righty. Would I carry it in the deer woods? Probably not, but it will be a good box blind rifle for looking out over my green fields.

[Idaho45guy]

Was just looking at rifles at the LGS while waiting for my BGC to clear for my new Henry rifle. Out of the dozens and dozens of bolt-action hunting rifles on the shelf, only a handful were in anything other than 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 PRC. Not a single .243 or .30-06 rifle for sale. And the shelves were full. Also, the rifle ammo was completely wiped out except for two calibers; 6mm Remington and .338 Lapua. Even the three lone boxes of .257 Roberts were gone. The .338 Lapua was $99.99 for a box of 20. Crazy.

[copperlake]

Well that settles it. I can put the 243 away and hunt Elk with a 6.5 Carcano as long as I use a specialty bullet.

Ha, Now that cracks me up! Really, why aren't we talking about the .257, oops! that is so forty years ago! These navel gazing things are too precious.

[MrHarmless]

.223 works just fine on coyotes and varmints. .243 is to small for deer unless the shot is perfect.


Can't agree with the latter. I grew up with the .243 in a Model 7. Probably took 10-15 deer with it, never lost a single one. 90 grain loads are great for medium sized game.

[M-Tecs]

I never seen the need for a .243.
.223 works just fine on coyotes and varmints. .243 is to small for deer unless the shot is perfect.
My two cents worth.

I've killed over 250 medium game animals with a very large variety calibers and I've never found the 243 lacking for deer sized game. Never counted exactly but it's at least 60 with a 243. That includes a 26" and a 28" mule deer. Never came close to losing one with the 243. On yotes it gave me 150 yard over a 223. In the late 70's and early 80's that extra yardage added several thousand of dollars to my pocket.

A friend raises Buffalo and Elk. He uses a 6mm Rem for his slaughterhouse rifle. He has killed hundreds of Buffalo with head shots. He uses 80 grain bullets too prevent over penetration and meat loss. He uses the same rifle as a loaner for high fence hunts on both Elk and Buffalo with premium bullets. With a double lung shot they rarely require a second shot.

[Lloyd Smale]

I never seen the need for a .243.
.223 works just fine on coyotes and varmints. .243 is to small for deer unless the shot is perfect.
My two cents worth.

how many deer did you shoot to come to that conclusion. Ive probably shot a 100 over the years with my 6mm and near that many with my 240 wby (which is about ballisticaly identical to a 2506 and probably my favorite long range crop damage shooting rifle) and my son in law and grandkids have probably shot a combined 20 with there 243s. There shots mostly close but ive shot deer out past 350 with the 6mm and near 500 with the wby and i can honestly say ive never pulled the trigger on one that i didnt put in the freezer the next day. Tell you a little secret. NO rifle is effective unless you make a good shot. You can shoot a deer in the guts with a 300 wby and loose it. What guns like the 243 do is allow people that are small statured, women children ect to shoot it without being afraid. Want to about guarantee someone will make a poor shot. take out my 300 ultra and let them shoot it once of twice at a target then watch them tremble when they have to pull the trigger on a deer. Dont know where you live but THOUSANDS of deer are killed with 243s around here.

What i tell people is if someone tells me a 243 isnt good enough then likely they are whats lacking not the gun. Bottom line is the 243 always was and always will be a fine deer caliber. Now if we were talking 500 plus lb elk id agree. But even for black bear (ive done it) the 243 works just fine. It always made me shake my head when the 243 is dissed and the 257 roberts (another round i love) is praised for deer hunting. Both shoot a 100 grain bullet to around 2900 fps. Matter of fact factory 243 ammo is more powerful then most factory 257 ammo. you really think .14 difference in diameter makes a differnce. If anything it just make the 243 bullet with a better bc fly flatter. Even more so some will claim the 250 savage is Gods gift to deer hunters and it is LESS powerful.

Bottom line is if you have a deer standing 300 yards out in front of you and you pull the trigger and dont recover that animal its YOUR fault not the guns. Like i said im not a big 243 cheerleader but ive shot enough deer in my life to know what works and what doesnt and the 243 is a very capable deer cartridge. IF there is one downside to it is it like all the 6mm rounds and the 25s for that matter dont tend to leave good blood trails for those who cant shoot well to follow. THAT is why its bashed and mostly bashed by people that use it once make a poor shot and blame the round for there poor skill in both shooting and tracking.

[tdoor4570]

My Remington 788 in 243 isn't going anywhere, purchased it new in 1972, It has killed more deer and elk than I can remember , One of my grand daughters has all ready laid claim to it. I never found it lacking in its ability to put big game down using 100gr. hornady spire point boat tails. As in any caliber bullet placement is the key. If you can't shoot stay out of the woods, I see to many hunters that would be real lucky to hit a 9 inch paper plate at 100 yards. trying to shoot way out past their ability.

[M-Tecs]

About 30 years ago my cousin was drawn for literally a once in a life time ND Elk tag. She used a borrowed 240 Weatherby to take a massive 7x7 Elk. One shot at just over 300 yards.

[jpamp]

243 (like many other fine calibers) can fire a wide weight range of bullet. I always wanted a have bbl savage 12fv in 243 but that combo isn’t as easy to find as all the others. Would I rather have a 223 on the smaller side for some varmints sure, is a 308 better if only slinging heavy bullets of course, but the 243 is a cool “in-between” caliber that can cover heavy varmint to big game.

Disclaimer, I gave more rifles in different calibers than a guy needs, but sometimes it’s just fun to pick guns like golfers pick clubs.

[fcvan]

My Wife inherited a .243 from her Grandfather. I got to see this rifle before he passed. It was built on a M98 action and was a fine piece of craftsmanship. The 98 Mauser was an arsenal weapon from WWII, brought back still in cosmoline, un fired. Still had the original stock and barrel and all the issue parts. Grandpa died, grandma GAVE AWAY THE ORIGINAL PARTS! So, that .243 lost popularity with me. I told my Wife the original M98 was worth more than the rifle, she could have gotten another M98 action and had both a great shooter and an unfired M98 Grandpa brought home from 'over there.'

Still, the .243 she has is a fine piece, typical of sporterized deer rifles from a gunsmith in Long Beach, CA in the 1950s (name escapes me at the moment) but were very well made. I have collected brass along the way, still need dies and such, she wants to shoot her Grandpa's rifle, along with others from his collection. The 32-40 is set up for Schutzen competition and probably second on her list. She's a shooter, I think that rifle will be a perfect match for her abilities.

[curioushooter]

.223 works just fine on coyotes and varmints.

In fact, .223 is far more than is needed at moderate ranges. I've found 17 HMR to be excellent on both and 22 Hornet I would consider an ideal under 150 yards.

Varmints are different from medium game and big game. I don't eat varmints and don't really care if I merely wound them or cause them suffering as long as they go away and die (of infection or whatever) I'm fine with that.

Making a rapid, humane kill on a deer is not only kind to the deer it makes for better eating. Stressed animals can be tougher and taste poorer.

Big game are basically like medium only bigger, so it becomes more incumbent upon the user to use enough gun. Geometry such as it is means that animals like Elk or Moose can require much deeper penetration (because of the wound track) compared to deer if the shot is not nearly perpendicular.

Some people talk about killing elk with 220 Swift and stuff like that...I have no doubt they are killing said animals. The question is how long did it take? How much stress did it cause? It seems to me they have the same attitude I do towards varmints and completely forgot they are supposed to eat the critter.

There is no question that .243 is adequate for deer, though one would probably be unwise to go smaller, though I do know Sierra at least makes a 65 grain game king bullet specifically for .223. Indiana for example places two minimum restrictions on calibers for deer. .243 or greater caliber for rifles. .357 caliber or greater for handguns. I tend to think they are right about this.

I see 6.5 as a great caliber mainly because it is good for varmints (if a bit overcaliber), great for deer (perhaps ideal), and adequate for big game (generally regarded as minimum). If that is on your menu it is a good fit.

[waksupi]

In fact, .223 is far more than is needed at moderate ranges. I've found 17 HMR to be excellent on both and 22 Hornet I would consider an ideal under 150 yards.

Varmints are different from medium game and big game. I don't eat varmints and don't really care if I merely wound them or cause them suffering as long as they go away and die (of infection or whatever) I'm fine with that.

Making a rapid, humane kill on a deer is not only kind to the deer it makes for better eating. Stressed animals can be tougher and taste poorer.

Big game are basically like medium only bigger, so it becomes more incumbent upon the user to use enough gun. Geometry such as it is means that animals like Elk or Moose can require much deeper penetration (because of the wound track) compared to deer if the shot is not nearly perpendicular.

Some people talk about killing elk with 220 Swift and stuff like that...I have no doubt they are killing said animals. The question is how long did it take? How much stress did it cause? It seems to me they have the same attitude I do towards varmints and completely forgot they are supposed to eat the critter.

There is no question that .243 is adequate for deer, though one would probably be unwise to go smaller, though I do know Sierra at least makes a 65 grain game king bullet specifically for .223. Indiana for example places two minimum restrictions on calibers for deer. .243 or greater caliber for rifles. .357 caliber or greater for handguns. I tend to think they are right about this.

I see 6.5 as a great caliber mainly because it is good for varmints (if a bit overcaliber), great for deer (perhaps ideal), and adequate for big game (generally regarded as minimum). If that is on your menu it is a good fit.

You should care if you just wound something. It may be a game to us, but it's deadly serious to them We owe them better.

[shampine]

You should care if you just wound something. It may be a game to us, but it's deadly serious to them We owe them better.

I agree 100 percent , what a foolish thing to post on the web for all to see . Makes all of us gun owners look stupid , no wonder the ant-gun establishment is winning .

[Daekar]

An observation and a question: it appears to me that the 6.5CM seems to have meaningful advantages only as ranges start to really stretch out. Do most hunters actually ever shoot anything at those extended ranges?

I ask because shooting offhand, 200 yards seems awfully far away to me...

[Daekar]

You should care if you just wound something. It may be a game to us, but it's deadly serious to them We owe them better.

I suspect that you might find your position a bit more flexible if you had a horde of varmints destroying your crops or attacking your livestock.

Not saying that it's not better for them to be DRT, but you wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[Three44s]

I am into DRT whether it is a lowly spider or an elephant! I am adverse to coyotes, they eat my baby calves from time to time, but as one of God’s creations they deserve an expeditious dispatch IMO.

Three44s

[Cosmic_Charlie]

For a high volume shooter a .308 is a better choice. .243 are harder on barrels. And as a cast boolit shooter I like a heavier boolit if I can't push it as fast as a j word. But the .243 for a hunting rifle is darn good. They have decent reach and great accuracy.

[M-Tecs]

I grew up in a small rural area and was a gun nerd. I subscribed to every gun rag published and read almost everything available so I knew a lot based on OTHERs claims. I also got to be friends with the local game warden. I just knew that a lesser cartridge than my 30-06 was a crippling machine. He didn't much agree with gun scribes positions on caliber choice.

He believed due to his position and paid scouting time him shooting trophy whitetails would be not viewed kindly by the community so he only took does or fork horns or smaller. He also wanted them to drop in their tracks. His rifle of choice was a 22-250 with 55 grain soft points. Frankly the first time he told me that I thought he was full of it cause I knew so much based on what I had read.

I was thinking about become a game warden and I did some ride along's during deer season. I watched him kill large doe's and small buck several times. He would wait for a broadside shot and he would put one in the ribs behind the shoulder. They all dropped in their track. No exit but the lungs were mush. Same shot for me with my 30-06 and 165 bullets would normally require tracking. Later in life I experienced the same with various smaller caliber rifles. An high velocity explosive bullet placed in the lungs is instant death. That old game warden knew from experience. He was more correct than most of the gun scribes. Later in life I got to know some of the gun scribes I idolized as a kid. I won't name the ones that turned out to be nothing more than nothing more than good story tellers. I did have the honor of meeting and talking to Jim Carmichel a couple of times. He was the real deal.

Also saw examples of less than ideal shots giving poor results with little guns and big guns.

Point is a .243 can be very effective on deer size game with proper shot placement and proper bullet selection for that placement.

[rbuck351]

I have only shot one deer and a few fox with my 243. It is about as good of fox/coyote round as there is and an excellent long range varmint round. The one deer I shot was a heart lung shot with a fast 85gr bullet and although a small bit of the bullet exited it was not a bang flop. It was in thick timber with a bit of snow and was with three other deer and almost no blood trail. I spent about an hour tracking the area that had lots of other tracks and finally found it. I would have been the first deer I had ever lost and I did not like that feeling at all. No more 243 for me with the 243, back to the 300H&H.

I think the 243 is loosing out to the new 6.5 wonder guns but if I were to get a 6.5 it would be the 6.5x55 or the 260rem in which I would use a 140gr bullet that could blow through both front shoulders. I have found that even moose with a hole through both front shoulders will drop in their tracks. They will also go straight for any water that is close with a heart lung shot and that is no fun.

I don't think the 243 is going away any time soon but I will never use it again for deer.

[waksupi]

I suspect that you might find your position a bit more flexible if you had a horde of varmints destroying your crops or attacking your livestock.

Not saying that it's not better for them to be DRT, but you wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Learn to shoot.

[Daekar]

Learn to shoot.

Less needless confrontational attitude please. Personally, I don't have crops, livestock, or a horde of varmints plaguing me, and since my dog guards the garden I haven't had to shoot any critters in several years...so any beef you have would be with someone else.

Regardless, I still feel the way I do because I can imagine being in the shoes of that farmer. If you maintain that it is unacceptable to shoot varmints to dispose of them without dominating worry about DRT kills, then you also are forced to maintain that things like pouring gasoline into a burrow and lighting it on fire, traps, or anything except instant-acting poison is also unacceptable unless you are willing to endorse a contradiction. That's not necessarily a pleasant thought, but when confronted outside of a comfortable couch in suburbia, the world isn't always a pleasant place and we have to accept that if we want to maintain the ability to actually function outside our little boxes.

We all do our best, but at the end of the day a gun is a tool employed to do a job. In this case, if the groundhog, feral hog, or coyote is dead or will soon be so, the job is done, and the next job can be tackled. We all prefer it when we have the luxury of making it about more than that, but sometimes that's not how it is.

[Finster101]

Less needless confrontational attitude please. Personally, I don't have crops, livestock, or a horde of varmints plaguing me, and since my dog guards the garden I haven't had to shoot any critters in several years...so any beef you have would be with someone else.

Regardless, I still feel the way I do because I can imagine being in the shoes of that farmer. If you maintain that it is unacceptable to shoot varmints to dispose of them without dominating worry about DRT kills, then you also are forced to maintain that things like pouring gasoline into a burrow and lighting it on fire, traps, or anything except instant-acting poison is also unacceptable unless you are willing to endorse a contradiction. That's not necessarily a pleasant thought, but when confronted outside of a comfortable couch in suburbia, the world isn't always a pleasant place and we have to accept that if we want to maintain the ability to actually function outside our little boxes.

We all do our best, but at the end of the day a gun is a tool employed to do a job. In this case, if the groundhog, feral hog, or coyote is dead or will soon be so, the job is done, and the next job can be tackled. We all prefer it when we have the luxury of making it about more than that, but sometimes that's not how it is.

Do you culture that ability to rub folks the wrong way or does it just come natural?

[Finster101]

Man has this thread gone way off topic.

[Daekar]

Do you culture that ability to rub folks the wrong way or does it just come natural?

I culture the ability to deal with reality even if I don't like it, and I try to always strive for logical consistency. I am sorry that you are offended by my opinion.

Back on topic, I think the 243 will be around for a long time yet, but whether it fades away will be contingent on whether the current CM fad continues for a long period, especially outside of AR-15 platforms.

I would be interested to hear from someone with personal experience using the 6CM and 243 in similar platforms. I don't own either nor have a need for them, but I can see the allure of heavy for caliber bullets in small bores just as much as I lust after a 250gr 357 magnum load.

[Finster101]

Owning neither you seem to have quite an authoritative opinion of what it will and will not do.

[Daekar]

Owning neither you seem to have quite an authoritative opinion of what it will and will not do.

I actually don't, since I have nothing to go on except what I have read. My only supposition - that it might fade away if prolonged popularity of competing cartridges overshadows it - does not really require any intimate knowledge of them to come up with...

[rbuck351]

I like my 243 for what it's for, a long range varmint gun with it's 1-12 twist. I made a solid hit at about 70 yds on a whitetail which destroyed both heart and lungs and was not a drt. Didn't even knock it down. Although it only went about 70-80 yds, in heavy timber and lots of fresh deer tracks and little blood trail, it was almost lost.

I don't believe one should use a round that will work just in the best of conditions. There are to many possibilities of what should be a well placed shot going wrong. I believe one should use a more powerful round in case all does not go as expected.

Calling a 243 or a 6.5 anything a big game round is pushing things a bit. Well maybe a 264 Win. I lived in AK. for about thirty years and very few folks there would consider hunting large brown bear with anything less than a 30/06 and the 338 Win was far more popular.

The last moose I shot was at about 75 yds with a 180 gr Speer from my 300 H&H. The first shot was a bit over the heart in the lungs. The moose didn't even twitch. As I was chambering another round it walked about 20yds and stopped giving me another broad side. Second shot was 3 or 4" lower and went through the heart and he flipped on his back. Both shots were pass through and where he was standing for the first shot was a pool of blood about a foot in diameter and over an inch deep as well as the brush behind him looked like some one had sprayed the area with a gallon of blood. Point is, even a heart/lung shot doesn't always put them down.

Most of the moose I have shot were with a 270 Win and 150gr Speer bullets placed through the front shoulders. None of those shot in the shoulder moved from where they were standing.

Why I chose a 243 to shoot a deer that day I don't remember, but it won't happen again. I am not recoil shy so I see no reason to use small rounds to shoot something I don't want to lose.

[M-Tecs]

I've killed between 40 and 50 whitetail bucks and a few does with a 243 using 100 grain bullets. Maybe 5 or 6 Antelope and 4 mule deer 2 of which were trophy class bucks with28" and 26" inside spreads. Depending on angle and size I found a couple of bullets just under the skin. Never lost one or had a hard recovery period. Wonder why some seem top have such a problem?

Standard twist for the 243 is 1-10. Initially the 6mm Rem. came out with 1-12 twist rate that would not stabilize the 100-grain bullets deer hunters preferred. A buddy had one of the early 6mm Remington's that wouldn't even stabilize the factory 90 grain bullets.

Which 243 ever came with a 1-12 twist? The 1-12 twist is what killed the 6mm Remington.

[Lloyd Smale]

Where the mistake is a made today is two fold First 75 percent of the people who tell me they lost a deer with a 243 and think its crap are deer shot by there 16 year old son or daugter or shot by the hunter who buys a box of shells and they last him 5 years. They might take one shot before season and if they hit a pie plate at 50 yards there good to go. Second are the people that have bought into the bs about premium bullets. Want to track deer? Use a monolithic copper bullet in a 24 or 25 cal. Ask me how i know?? Those people believe some expert on you tube or in guns and ammo that has shot MAYBE 50 deer in his life. Hes pushing those bullets because hes getting kick backs. The real premium bullets in the 24s and 25s are sierra prohunters, nos bts, speer hot cores and hornady interlocks. Stick with a 100 grain in the 24s and 100-120s in the 25s and you will kill deer. If you shoot a deer at 300 yards with any of those bullets and dont eat back straps tomorrow its your fault not the gun or the bullets. In my life ive shot a conservative 100 deer with 24s and probably the same with 25s. Probably more deer in two years then that expert in guns and ammo has in his life. Some here dont like my advice because it flys in the face of what there daddy told them but truth be told daddy didnt shoot a 100 deer in his whole life. My best year was 78 and combined with my buddy we shot a 129 that year.

basically if you shot 4 deer with the 243 and are here badmouthing it your opinion might be valued by someone else but not this guy. Ive ate just to many backstraps off 24 cal killed deer to even chuckle at it. It might not be the gun for the guy that shoots a couple rounds a year or to give your 12 year old because it doesnt kick much and it might not even be the gun for some here that dont shoot past a 100 yards till they happen across a deer on the other side of the field. Heck 300 yard shooting isnt for inexperienced shooters period. But to tell me i need a 3006 to kill a deer no bigger then the lab sleeping on the chair next to me is ridiculous. If you like an 06 use it. Heck ive used 8mags and 300 ultra mags and 7stw's to kill deer. But im under no illusion it was needed.

Now the 22s are a slightly differnt story with a differnt set of problems. Ive killed deer with varmint bullets in them. It usually either pole axes them or they run off and ive even lost a couple. X bullets are worse yet. those little tiny 22s just dont reliably expand and even when they do its like shooting a 25 cal solid through a deer. I dont use 22s any more buy my buddy still uses a 22250 on occasion. What we found is theres only one bullet for them and thats the 60 grain partition. now that said some of the new bonded bullets probably would work too but i havent used them so it would be speculation not fact if i told you one way or the other. Partitions do seem to work well but even with them dont expect a good blood trail. My buddy does it smart when he sets up with his 22250 anymore. He keeps the range under 300 yards and for the most part takes head shots. If he hits them they go DOWN. If he misses or is off a bit they run off unhurt. We can do that doing crop damage shooting because there will be another one in a 1/2 hour or worse case tomorrow. Hunting big bucks though might just give you one opportunity in 2 or 3 years and personaly id rather something other then a 22 come that time. But that said would be very comfortable with a 243 shooting a cup and core 100.

[robg]

where you hit them is more important that what you hit them with,within reason of course.use the gun that you shoot more accurately with .the 243 is the most used calibre on all deer over here.me i use a 308,but i shoot lots of rounds at targets not just a couple of rounds a year.

[rbuck351]

I installed a Shilen 1-12 twist barrel on a 670 Win because that's what I had at the time and because I wasn't planning on hunting deer with it. There are no deer within several hundred miles of Nome which is where I lived at the time. There are lots of fox a few wolverine and some land otters and an occasional wolf. Perfect size for the 243 with 85gr Speer btsp at 3200fps. Lots of folks there use the 223 for everything including moose and polar bear in a den. A twenty round magazine of 223 will take out a moose nicely at 40/50yds or a bear in a den at three yds. Not very sporting but they are after food or fur not sport and they don't consider bloodshot meat inedible. I haven't seen it myself but have heard plenty of stories of people there using a 22lr to shoot moose. Believe it or not they don't lose many if any from a 22lr in the ear from 10/15 yds.Me I'm not one to use the smallest caliber I think I can kill something with but to each his own.

The 243 will kill anything on the planet but not fast enough to suit me. I have not shot hundreds of medium to large game animals but I have never lost one either. The thought of losing even one bothers me enough to make me shoot a bigger caliber than necessary to ensure a fast clean kill.

I also do not admire people that shoot at game animals at very long range. Over 500yds and even if you do everything correct, an animal can take a step during bullet flight that can turn a good hit into a bad hit. And bullet energy and expansion goes way down.

All of this is just my opinion, but I have to live with my conscience so I will continue to use "too much gun".

[lksmith]

I think it's a temporary thing. 243 ain't going anywhere. 6.5 is a good intermediate between 243 and 308. I believe that the mfg's are trying to cash in on the current 6.5 fad to establish a base for the caliber to make it stay. Personally, I had never owned an AR10 until this past year. I made 3 from 80% lowers. I made one each in 308, 243, and 6.5CM. At least in that platform, the 6.5 is more pleasant to shoot than the 243.

[Winger Ed.]

243 ain't going anywhere. .

Not around here anyway.
Anyplace that sells ammo in this end of the country will always have it along with the 7 or 8 other calibers
that will still be around for another 100 years.

[M-Tecs]

I have not shot hundreds of medium to large game animals but I have never lost one either. The thought of losing even one bothers me enough to make me shoot a bigger caliber than necessary to ensure a fast clean kill.



I lost the first deer I shot with a bow in 1970 at the age of 10. It bothered me greatly. Since then I have killed around 60 with the bow and have not lost one. With the rifle I have killed around 250 with one loss. I came close a couple of times but that was my fault for improper premium bullet selection. The bullets were designed for much large game. I put three 175 grain Bitterroot bullets from a 270 Win through both lungs one medium sized mule deer buck. Chased him across a full section of land so he went a mile. He was to sick to make it across a fence so the fourth one through the neck ended it. With my normal 130 grain bullets he would have went down the first shot. I also made the same mistake with a 338 Win Mag and a 375 H&H. I had very challenging recovers due to lack of expansion. If I look at those single instances the 270, 338 Win Mag and the 375H&H are not suitable whitetail calibers. Nothing could be further from the truth. The issue was I was being cheap and I wanted to used left over premium bullets that I had loaded of others or were given.

While I have not killed as many deer as Lloyd my actual experience mirrors his and his buddies with the exception of head shots. I have seen too many deer with their lower jaw or nose shot off to recommend it. That being said under the right circumstances I will take head shot however the margin of error is very small.

[lksmith]

Not around here anyway.
Anyplace that sells ammo in this end of the country will always have it along with the 7 or 8 other calibers
that will still be around for another 100 years.

I agree. The rifle calibers that are going to be around everywhere ammo is sold (excluding the current run on ammo) are 308, 3030, 3006, 243, 223, and 270

[M-Tecs]

I agree. The rifle calibers that are going to be around everywhere ammo is sold (excluding the current run on ammo) are 308, 3030, 3006, 243, 223, and 270

I agree but I would also add the 7mm Rem Mag and the 300 Winchester Mag. In the West and mid-West they are very popular.

[Lloyd Smale]

well either the 6.5s are THE gun to have or the craze is dieing. Went gun shopping last week at 4 different shops and half the rifles they had were creedmores. Was it because everyone wants one or because everyone that wants one already has one and there sitting there. Either way a PILE of them has sold. One even to my hunting partner. He picked one up for crop damage shooting. Hes not a real gun guy and told me he bought it because it was the flattest shooting sob in his safe. I had to laugh. Hes has a 257 wby a 25.06 and a 300wsm and the real comical thing is he has a ruger 264 mag. Hated to bust his bubble and tell im all he really bought was a 260 rem at best and less then a 6.5 swede. .

He doesnt shoot 1000 yards. Heck i doubt hes ever shot a deer past 400. He passes on shots i take all the time. Wanted to set him straight but its one time i sucked it up and kept my opinion to myself. If he wants to love his new gun ill let him. Basicaly it will probably kill just fine at the ranges he shoots and 5 years from now will have killed a couple hundred deer and he will swear by it. Never was there a cartridge since the 270 that gun writters got more people to drink the kool-aid then the 6.5. I guess its the reason ill never own one or detest the 270. there the darlings of wanabe gun experts. Buy yourself a 270 or your not even a rilfeman. Buy an 06 and your a boring grandpa. 308? Hardly good past 200 yard if you ask those 270 guys.

Some things blow my mind when it comes to this stuff. Like why the 280 with a MUCH wider variety of bullets died and the 270 set sales records. Why the 257 roberts never took off when the 243 sold like gang busters. Mostly the reason is like i said before. Rags like guns and ammo and there so called experts. dont get me wrong i like new things too. I love my ar15 in 6.5 grendel and just built one in 300hmr. But i love them because they make an ar into a deer rifle. The 6.5 creed really doesnt do anything that already wasnt being done by existing calibers. For the real long range crowd there already history being replaced by the 6mm creed and the 6.5 prc.(which by the way was on the gunshops shelves too) But im still kind of chuckling at my buddy. Hes got the gun. No ammo or even dies to be found anywhere. Bullets are about non existent. Only ammo he found was two boxes of some needle nosed long range hp stuff that sure isnt deer medicine. He would have been much better off with a 243 or 308. At least then he could have used my dies and if he didnt have bullets himself i sure do. Have to wonder if by september he will even have it ready to kill deer.

[mike britton]

Okay, folks.....
I'm the OP here, and we have 7 pages of opinions. The discussion is kind of teetering off the rails, and I'm asking that if you all want to continue on keep it civil. I got my answer, in spades! So carry on if you want, but y'all are starting to flog a dead horse!

[lksmith]

I owned one and it was ok. But there is no place for it in my needs. I have a few .223’s for fun shooting and varmints. No need to burn more powder in the .243. I hunt with a .308...so what would a .243 do?

The 6.5 CM is the latest fad, but no better than what I have for what I need killing. If I get so crippled up I cannot shoot a .308, I will add a muzzle brake or get a .260. At least brass for the .260 will never be a problem.

But the .243 is going to be around for a long time.Brass isn't an issue for 6.5CM. Can form it from 308 almost as easily as 260, 243 of 7mm08, only have to trim it

[M-Tecs]

Brass isn't an issue for 6.5CM. Can form it from 308 almost as easily as 260, 243 of 7mm08, only have to trim it

Most use 22-250 brass. You have to fireform and the brass is a hair short. Using even 260 you normally have to neck turn plus cut to length.

[lksmith]

Most use 22-250 brass. You have to fireform and the brass is a hair short. Using even 260 you normally have to neck turn plus cut to length.

I've been using 7mm08 brass since I have a ton of it that I've picked up. Neck down and use my trimmer and works fine. Never thought of or tried 22-250

[Texas by God]

I seem to recall, around 1980, the talk was that the new 7mm-08 Remington would bump the .243 aside. I guess not.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

I've been using 7mm08 brass since I have a ton of it that I've picked up. Neck down and use my trimmer and works fine. Never thought of or tried 22-250

Some good info here

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?336859-6-5-Creedmore

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/forming-6-5-creedmore-from-22-250-308-or.3917879/

[Pete44mag]

Take a close look at the ballistic charts there is a lot of over lap between the different calibers. If the manufacturers aren't selling new guns, ammo, dies and all the rest of the toys there not making money. Does a 30-06 kill a deer any more dead than a 6.5? It's not the gun its the shooter holding it that makes the difference. Some people like new toys some don't. Some people like argue what's best and some don't. If we all felt the same about everything it would be a pretty boring world with only one gun manufacturing company.

[lksmith]

Take a close look at the ballistic charts there is a lot of over lap between the different calibers. If the manufacturers aren't selling new guns, ammo, dies and all the rest of the toys there not making money. Does a 30-06 kill a deer any more dead than a 6.5? It's not the gun its the shooter holding it that makes the difference. Some people like new toys some don't. Some people like argue what's best and some don't. If we all felt the same about everything it would be a pretty boring world with only one gun manufacturing company.

I dunno, I haven't got the nerve to try and shoot a deer around here with anything less than 30cal. I just don't like tracking them. Made perfect shots with ballistic tip 30-06 and had them get up and run off and not be found

[Texas by God]

To the OP- Mike, get yourself an extra .243 Win. Savage 110 barrel and do the switch barrel thing on your 30-06 110L. Easy. My son has a 110 long action .243 that came from my late brother and it always delivers. It shot very well with 80 gr Midway bulk bullets so that's what we used for everything - till we could no longer get them. Now the 90gr Nosler B tip is used. I had a 788 .243 but I let it go when I got 25-06 fever....

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

I dunno, I haven't got the nerve to try and shoot a deer around here with anything less than 30cal. I just don't like tracking them. Made perfect shots with ballistic tip 30-06 and had them get up and run off and not be found

Geez. First the 357 magnum gets demoted to a bunny gun at best. Then the 243 Winchester became a pip-squeak varmint round. Now the 30-06 is a little weak for deer. They worked in the past, but now they don't. Is our technology failing us, or are we failing ourselves?

BTW, that is not directed at you specifically lksmith.

[lksmith]

Geez. First the 357 magnum gets demoted to a bunny gun at best. Then the 243 Winchester became a pip-squeak varmint round. Now the 30-06 is a little weak for deer. They worked in the past, but now they don't. Is our technology failing us, or are we failing ourselves?

BTW, that is not directed at you specifically lksmith.

Glad it isn't! 30-06 is far from weak, I just don't like tracking deer!

[gbrown]

I agree with Pete44mag. Shot placement. 5-6 years ago, I bought a 243, not for any other reason than I wanted one. Put a nice Vortex on it. Loaded 90 gr. Nosler BT. Got it sighted in, took it to the lease. Afternoon of opening day, 100 lb doe came out at 100 yd. Standing broadside, head down, nibbling short grass or something. Didn't want to waste any meat, shot her at the base of the skull in neck. She did an *** for head flip and never moved. Took her spine and carotids out. Thats what it is all about, shot placement.

[rbuck351]

You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong. -Bob Hagel

I don't think the popularity of the 243 will go down much as there are tons of them already in peoples hands and they are as good a long range varmint round as anything. I do believe the sales of new 243 rifles will drop off as there are so many newer similar rounds available especially those that fit the AR platform. The Ar being probably the most popular rifle now and the gun rags all promoting the newest round for the AR will probably hurt sales of the 243.

Whether or not these small to medium sized rounds are adequate for deer sized animals depends a lot on the person behind the gun and unknown circumstances. Using a "too big" round just helps insure you take home meat instead of chasing a blood trail until it disappears.

[megasupermagnum]

You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong. -Bob Hagel

I don't think the popularity of the 243 will go down much as there are tons of them already in peoples hands and they are as good a long range varmint round as anything. I do believe the sales of new 243 rifles will drop off as there are so many newer similar rounds available especially those that fit the AR platform. The Ar being probably the most popular rifle now and the gun rags all promoting the newest round for the AR will probably hurt sales of the 243.

Whether or not these small to medium sized rounds are adequate for deer sized animals depends a lot on the person behind the gun and unknown circumstances. Using a "too big" round just helps insure you take home meat instead of chasing a blood trail until it disappears.

243 winchester fits just fine in an AR10

[Finster101]

243 winchester fits just fine in an AR10

And I have been wanting one. I waited too long as I am not going to pay current prices. I guess my Sako will have to do for now.

[M-Tecs]

I really like my AR10 in 243. I never knew it wasn't possible to put a .243 in an AR platform.

I am also wondering what I am doing wrong with the deer and antelope I have killed with zero issues??? Total that would be around 40 and 50 whitetail bucks and a few whitetail doe's. Plus maybe 5 or 6 Antelope and 4 mule deer 2 of which were trophy class bucks with 28" and 26" inside spreads. Every animal fell to a 243 using 100 grain bullets soft point Speer bullets or factory Remington Core-Lokt's without anything remotely resembling a difficult recovery. Same for the dozens of people that I know that use the .243 for deer. We all must be doing something wrong since we have none of the claimed issues???

From 1970 until 2006 I hunted on a large ranch that was mostly river bottom and irrigated corn. It held a very large deer population. The ranch owner hated deer and wanted them all shot off. Normally 20 to 30 hunters per season most with at least 2 tags per hunter some with the max of three gun tags. Five including archery and Blackpowder. Lots of deer drives involved with 50 or 60 deer per season killed on his land so I witnessed a lot of deer being killed or at least heard the stories. In the evening we would all gather in his shop and have a beer or two and tell the days tales. He sold it in 2006 for several million more than it was worth as a ranch to a very deep pockets individual that wanted it for hunting.

That time span covers 36 years and at 50 minimum deer harvested per season that's 1800 deer. While I was not around for all of them I was around for well over half of them. When it came to wounding/crippling/losing deer two cartridge's shared the title. The would be the 30/30 and the 300 Magnums either Winchester or Weatherby.

In both cases the cause had nothing to do with the cartridge. It had everything to do with the shooter proficiencies or lack of. The magnum guys thought they could shoot a mile and they didn't have a good understanding of deer anatomy/shot placement. The other group were mostly adjoining land owners that had land with no cover and no deer. They just wanted a deer to mix with pork for the fall sausage making. They tended to carry Grandpa's 30/30. Grandpa may have been the last one to sight it in. They were not serious hunter or shooters. Between the two groups they lost a lot of deer.

While it varied year to year there were always 5 or 6 hunters using a 243 or 6mm Remington and one hunter used a 220 Swift exclusively. With one exception they were all serious varmint hunters and shooters. After I filled my tags I would switch to a 22-250 or a 220 Swift for coyotes but if the right shot presented itself and I had permission I would fill others tags. Never had an issue with a head, neck or a behind the shoulder double lung with the 22-250 or the 220 Swift. Can't say if they ever lost a deer but I don't remember ever helping track a deer for them. I do remember helping track a lot of deer for hunters using bigger guns.

On a side note I did kill at least one deer with every standard US cartridge service rifle. That would be a Trapdoor Springfield, 30-40 Krag, 1903 Springfield, 1917 Enfield,1903A3 Springfield, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine(borrowed never owned one), and last but not least a real M-14 from the NG Marksmanship team and an actual 12 twist M-16 model 604 with the silly aluminum dogleg selector switch limiter.

I am mostly color bind so I am a poor tracker. On the other hand I have always been a very avid shooter so my job was point man when tracking. I've finished a lot of wounded deer with the lowly 243 that were wounded by much bigger guns. I don't include this in my kill totals. Same for an of the "Put out of their misery" kill's. The land across the river was deer huntable waterfowl refuge. Slugs only and mostly swamp grass. Lots of wounded deer would swim across the river. Shot of jaws and nose were common on doe's and fawns since that all you could see in the swamp grass. Bucks didn't hang around long enough for a head shot so gut and leg shots were common. One opening day or the day after they would get tagged and used. After that they normally became coyote food since no one wanted to tag a fevered animal that they didn't wound themselves. Not legal but it's the moral thing to do.

The river bottom ranch owners to the south of the ranch I used to hunt on was also a good friend of my dad’s. Dad, Mom and him all were farm kids gowning up in the Depression. Their parents all raised cattle but that was too valuable to eat. The only beef that ate was from old or injured and that was very rare. They did eat a lot of pork, chickens, turkeys, ducks and geese that they raised. Both mon and dad were on the prairie on all the deer had been shot off. Dad didn't start deer hunting until 1950 he moved to an area the had deer. The friend on the river bottom lived on deer during those times. His job as a kid was to shoot about one deer a week for the family. All he had was a single shot 22LR. He got a beating if used more than one shot per deer. He only remembers getting beat a couple of times and he killed hundreds and hundreds with a 22LR. I asked him one time and he figured he killed over 500 deer with a 22LR.

My now deceased father in law tells of growing up in very remote Alaska bordering the Yukon Territory. He was 14 before he saw another person other than his mother and father. It was a seven day walk to the nearest trading post. He was not a hunter or a gun guy but he thought the 25/20 was the best moose cartridge ever. They also had a 303 Brit. My guess is all they had was ball ammo for that. Their method of moose hunting was to wait to the moose they wanted was happily eating in the garden and to shoot it 2 or 3 times in the ribs from the cabin with the 25/20. The little 25/20 would not spook the moose and it would just keep on eating. Once it started getting wobbly they would chase it out of the garden so the gut pile wasn’t in the garden. If they used the 303 he stated the moose would run a long ways and they would have to pack it back.

I do know I have killed a fair amount of slaughter hogs and steers with a 22 LR and one horse that had several broken legs due to a horse trailer rollover. From day after my 15th Birthday I worked as the only gas station open on weekend. Got my driver’s licenses and first tax and SS pay job day after my 15th B-day. Both were legal at the time. That meant I also drove wreck on the weekends and evenings. The state only had 7 game wardens and highway patrol were very rare. While not legal both OK'ed the wrecker drivers dispatching vehicle struck animals as long as we didn't take any. The wrecker normally had a cheap 22 boltgun and cheap single shot 12 gauge. If they were close I would use a head shot with the 22 to put them out of their misery. If they crawled too far away for a head shot if you could get a 3 or 4 into the lungs that would end their misery.

Due to where and how I hunted from 1970 - 2006 I have been part of or seen the recovered animals of many very challenging recoveries and/or almost lost deer. In some cases it was bullets that didn't expand or the bullet blew up on the surface. Of the surface wounds small branches or brush being hit before the deer impact was mostly the cause.

Irrespective of claims of a perfect shot I have never seen a deer that was a difficult recovery or nearly lost that had the said perfect claimed hit with exception of the rare lack of expansion mostly due to poor bullet selection. I have been guilty of that myself with a 270 Win, .338 Win Mag. and a 375H&H. That being said any animal that is adrenaline charged is capable of covering surprising distances. Hearts shot in particular can go a long ways. First Antelope I shot was with a 30-06 using 150 grain soft points. It went about 450 yards without a heart. Never seen an animal with shredded collapsed lungs make it much past 60 yards.

Within reason shooter proficiency and understand shot placement are for more important that cartridge/caliber selection.

[farmbif]

nah, 243 aint popular no more, feel free to send me all your unpopular brass, bullets and guns and you can get yourself some new fangled super duper buck getter.

[oldsalt444]

I shot my first buck, a California black tail, with a .243 at 200 yards so it will always be popular with me. Dropped like an anchor on the spot.

While the 6.5 CM is a good cartridge, I see it as just a fad. It won't do anything that a 260 Rem or 6.5x55 Swede won't do. The Swede was invented over 100 years ago. Just seems like re-inventing the wheel to me.

[rbuck351]

Well that settles it. If the slob hunters next door had just used a 243 instead of the 300 mag or what ever they would have drt instead of losing them.

I believe a good hunter can harvest deer easily with a 22lr especially if drive hunting or shooting them in the garden. The deer that rob my garden could be shot at ten yards with just about anything if one can hit a pop can at 15 feet. People that can't hit their rear with either hand probably shouldn't be hunting at all. However I think a larger round with a proper bullet would help them lose fewer animals.

I also don't think most folks should use a 243 for hunting deer on Kodiak island. Lots of deer that would go down fairly easily
with the 243 but there are also lots of griz that think a gun shot is a dinner bell.

[M-Tecs]

Well that settles it. If the slob hunters next door had just used a 243 instead of the 300 mag or what ever they would have drt instead of losing them.

I believe a good hunter can harvest deer easily with a 22lr especially if drive hunting or shooting them in the garden. The deer that rob my garden could be shot at ten yards with just about anything if one can hit a pop can at 15 feet. People that can't hit their rear with either hand probably shouldn't be hunting at all. However I think a larger round with a proper bullet would help them lose fewer animals.

I also don't think most folks should use a 243 for hunting deer on Kodiak island. Lots of deer that would go down fairly easily
with the 243 but there are also lots of griz that think a gun shot is a dinner bell.

Both the 243 and the 300 Mag will kill deer effectively with proper bullets and placement.

Deer drives and 22 LR???? Deer drives are mostly running shots and hardly the place for 22LR. Also not legal anywhere that I am aware of.

As to people that have marginal hits improving the odds with large calibers I've never really observed much of a difference until you get outside of normal combinations. A poor hit with a 243, 7mm Mag or a 300 Mag is still a poor hit.

The one prime example is the land owners bother-in-law. He flew in from NY every year. He used a 300 Weatherby Magnum and lost lots of deer using 165 grain bullets. He switched to 125 grain Nosler Ballistic tips at a little over a chronographed 3,600 FPS. He stopped losing deer mostly but the best way to describe a deer hit with that combo was to compare it to a fox hit with an explosive 220 Swift bullet. It would literally blow most of the off quarter away and it didn't matter if it was the front shoulder or the hindquarter. Gut shots left cantaloupe sized holes that they did run away from. Not much useable meat with that combo. The 125 grain was way more destructive and explosive than the 165 grain. You still could shoot a leg off or a nose off and still lose the deer. Yes he was a slob hunter but he was family and I wasn't. The landowner didn't care he just wanted every deer gone.

Didn't realize we were talking about grizzly bear. I have one of those coming up. If it's a spring hunt I haven't decided if I will take my 375 H&H or my new yet unfired 416 Rigby. Thinking my 416 Rigby with Barnes 350 grain TTSX BT at about 2,550 should do the job nicely. If it's a fall hunt I may use my bow. Either way the .243 is staying home.

That being a said a very good friend is the owner and operator of a Grizzly bear and Salmon Guide service in Alaska. He did have one client use a 6.5 Creedmoor to take a 9 foot Grizzly. He carries a 375H&H as a stopper rifle. It was not needed. On fall hunts he does allow archery from tree stands. He has stopped several bear charges in the 35 years he has been guiding.

Back to the subject at hand if I strictly go by numbers of almost lost deer and or challenging recoveries that I personally experienced the .270, 30-06, 338 Win Mag and the 375 H&H would be found lacking. Nothing is further from the truth. Total number that I've killed with the 270, 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H is only about a dozen and half yet each one of the calibers produced my most challenging recovers due to using bullets designed for much larger game. If I would have been using my 243 none of those three would have made it 30 yards.

With the 30-06 I mostly used that from 12 years old to 16 years old and shot selection wasn't the best. That rifle got traded for a Browning Sako 243 that killed a lot of deer without a loss and it made a lot of money killing coyotes in the mid-70 through the mid 80's. I tried a FMJ's loaded down to limit fur damage but in the end I lost more money to not recovered coyotes verse additional hide damage. Lost to many with FMJs and varmint bullets did way to much fur damage. The same 100 soft points anchored them well and fur damage was mostly repairable.

1976 was the first year I used the 243 for deer. It didn't start well. We had been hunting that land since 1970 and while you had to look for mule deer in the hills no one had ever killed a mule deer in the heavy wood. I had my whitetail buck tag, permission to fill my dad's whitetail buck tag and permission to fill one more whitetail buck tag. I saw three very nice bucks coming my way. Mule deer required a mule deer tag which none of us had. Three shots and three deer on the ground all mulies. I didn't have a clue until I started gutting the first one. The largest was 26" inside spread. None of the 25 or so other hunters had a tag for mule deer but two of the adjacent land owners had gratis tags that could be used for anything however that was for their land only. They actually wanted mule deer since they are larger bodies and they just went into the fall sausage making. The bigger the better. The third I had to drive about 10 miles to get some who would tag it and yes none of that was legal.

Party hunting was also not legal in that state but if you wanted to hunt on that land you party hunted. The land owner hated deer and want them all gone. If was a noon opener on Friday and all day for the following two weeks. We would set in the stands all Friday and until 9:30 in the mornings. After that is was 100% deer drives. I killed the three mulies on Friday and nothing on Saturday. On Saturday they had a drive and one of the posters missed a bunch of deer. On Sunday they put me in that tree stand. Five shots with my 243 and 4 bucks and one doe on the ground. Eight shots and 8 deer on the ground in three days but I guess if I would have been using a bigger rifle I would have done better.

The 243 will be around for as long as the politicians allow it.

To the OP's question yes the .243 is losing popularity simply because there are a many more choices currently. The 243/6mm caliber is graining greatly in popularity for both competition and hunting. Most of that is coming from 30 caliber shooters. Other than Palma not many using 30 calibers for long range competition anymore. Most are using 6mm, 6,5 or 7mm. For the ultra-long range 338, 375 and 416 calibers of choice. Same is happening in hunting.

Just like the .243 the various 30 cals. are not going away any time soon for hunting and they still are just as effective as they always were.

[lksmith]

I shot my first buck, a black tail, with a .243 at 200 yards so it will always be popular with me. Dropped like an anchor on the spot.

While the 6.5 CM is a good cartridge, I see it as just a fad. It won't do anything that a 260 Rem or 6.5x55 Swede will do. The Swede was invented about 100 years ago. Just seems like re-inventing the wheel to me.

Part of the popularity could be cost as well. An old guy in my area was getting out of loading so he cut me a deal on all his supplies and tools, he loaded for 260rem, so I was going to build an AR10 in 260rem, but it was going to cost me about $300 more than building it in 6.5CM, which is essentially the same only different brass (but can be formed from 260) and different sizing die. so I put the extra money towards components

[1hole]

The only way .243 will be popular in 20 years,, is if someone figures out how to chamber it in an AR15 ,,,,,,,,,,,

I believe the current craze over ugly black rifles will fade before the .243 does.

Magazine writers follow whoever gives/lends them new tools to play with and make a living doing it. Noob gunners follow the "gun magazine experts" and the gun makers know it.

Thus, we have fads that hit the market with a mighty splash. But have you seen any new rifles in any of the previously fabulous .300 Super Short Super Fat Super Magnums lately?

The old stand-by hunting cartridges remain safe in the firm grip of fad proof hunters. For me, that includes my .243, .308, .30-06 and .35 Remington. And my .22-250 and assorted .22 RF. And my .357 and .44 Mags. And my iron sighted 1911 ACP for night time varmint hunting.

There are no black poodle shooters or "double tap" crunchin' tickers in my gun safe.

[Winger Ed.]

The only way .243 will be popular in 20 years,, is if someone figures out how to chamber it in an AR15 ,,,,,,,,,,,

Are ya making the same prediction for the .30-30?:bigsmyl2:

[lksmith]

I believe the current craze over ugly black rifles will fade before the .243 does.



Ya know they make 243 in "Ugly Black Rifles" right?

[M-Tecs]

The "Ugly Black Rifles" are Barbie dolls for men or erector sets for adults. The only way they are going away is through legislation. With a good trigger and quality barrel on the AR15 platform they will give bench guns a run for their money. Mostly due to receiver flex it takes a fair amount more effort to get the AR10 platform to shoot too near bench rest accuracy but sub 1/2" MOA isn't that big of challenge in the AR10's.

[Memphis]

I believe the current craze over ugly black rifles will fade before the .243 does.
We're in year 56 of the AR15 "fad." It is the longest serving rifle in US military history and the most dominant civillian rifle of any era. Hipster 6mm/6.5/6.8 rounds may come and go. The AR and .223/5.56 will live forever.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have had a .243 and found it difficult to shoot cast bullets well because of it's short neck. I have a 6mm Remington which I like better because of it's long neck. I do have a .243 now but it needs to be fitted to a stock and I can't bring myself to do the job. Another project. I am not sure but I think the flint lock musket was our longest serving military rifle.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/hunting-gear/the-243-winchester-the-original-dual-purpose-cartridge

"It represents the lower-end threshold of killing effectiveness for deer, antelope, and black bear, yet is entirely adequate for these uses as long as appropriate bullets are selected and shots are well-placed. While doing a little reading and online research on this topic, I came across a comment by one older shooter who said he had started with a .243 as a youngster over 50 years ago and had never found a need for another rifle caliber. That pretty much sums it up. If your quarry is the elk-size game or bigger, get a bigger rifle…use enough gun. But if your hunting is limited to varmints up through the deer-sized game, the .243 Winchester may well be all you’ll ever need – a perfect setup for the gamekeeper wanting a true dual-purpose rifle."