Does reloading 223 for AR15 require different primers

[azchisum]

Am I required to use, I think the #41 or other primers for the Ar15. I have loaded thousands of 223 for single action and bolt guns but not the AR. Also who uses the SB sizer die. I have a RCBS standard set.

[Half Dog]

I’m not sure you’ll need the SB sizing die to load for an AR, at least I don’t use one.
Primers, I use Federal and have had no issues.

[Rcmaveric]

You dont need special dies or primers for AR15. Use the standard dies and SMR primers.

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[Winger Ed.]

All I've ever used is a small base sizer die, a separate taper crimp die, and small rifle primers for my old Colt SP1 AR.
Never had a problem.

If you're needing a new die set for it, I really, really like my Lyman set of
'Black dies for black rifles' and would recommend them.

[M-Tecs]

SB dies are needed when they are needed and not until they are needed. If you have cases that don't chamber from radial case expansion by the base they have a purpose. Using them if you don't have any issues just reduces case life.

Built or worked on several hundred AR rifles and I have yet to see one that benefited from a SB die. One the other end of the spectrum my Remington Model 760 Gamemaster pump-action 30-06 will have occasional issues if I don't use SB dies.

The CCI 41 and Remington 7 1/2 have the thickest and hardest cups but they have zero availability currently.

Some good info here. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

Winchester Small Rifle are very widely used in the AR's and they are on the thinner side but the claim is they have harder cups.

CCI 400's are not recommended for AR's but lots of people use them.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?399846-CCI-400-for-AR15

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/any_problem_using_cci_400andapos_s_in_an__223_relo ad_/42-288221/

[Remiel]

I use small base for my ar, the wifes are fine with regular lee dies. For primers I use cci400, Winchester small rifle and tula small rifle without issues.

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[stubshaft]

Plain old small rifle primers work fine.

[farmerjim]

I use regular dies to size 223 and 308 military brass. I then check them in a headspace gauge. About 15% will fail. They then get run through the small base die. I learned this the hard way when I loaded 500 308's and the first one would not chamber in my savage axis 308. I bought a headspace gauge and a collet puller. All powder and bullets were transferred to proper sized brass as each was pulled. Live and learn.

[tomme boy]

DO NOT USE THE INFO IN THE SKS LINK ABOVE WITH THE INFO ABOUT SPM PRIMERS. It is not current info from CCI.

Now, if you are loading max 556 loads then skip the cci sr primers. Depending on your bolt and barrel you might blank a primer. Use 41 or win srp and you will be good. Now if you are loading mild jacketed under 50K psi you SHOULD be ok with cci srp. If you are loading cast bullet loads and stay under 42K psi then you could use any primer that fits.

This all takes some risk so you be the judge on what you use. Just do your research

[farmbif]

do not use Remington 6 1/2's in 223/5.56 reloads, most others seem to work ok.

[Lloyd Smale]

i run all my 556 and 762 brass thats used in semi autos through small base dies. Sure theres guns that dont need it but ive got a number of guns in those calibers and want to be able to grab any batch of ammo and know it will run in any gun. Ive never seen a down side to small base sizing. If I get 9 firings instead of 10 so what. For the most part by then the primer pockets wont hold a primer anyway.

[JoeJames]

I think everything I have learned about reloading over the last 30 something years has been hard learned through bitter experience; small base dies for 308 and 223 are good examples.

[tomme boy]

If you have to use a sb die you need to learn how to set up a fl die. They are not needed for anything. Size a piece of brass, but before lowering the ram look under the die and see if there is a gap between the shell holder and the die. I bet there is as no matter who makes the press it flexes. You just have to screw the die in a little more.

[Jsm180]

When I started looking for info on loading for the AR the consensus was if your gun will chamber rounds without SB sizing then you don't need it, not very helpful. I went with SB dies and take the risk of short brass life over finding out one of my guns won't chamber without SB sizing.

If your press is flexing when sizing 223/556 it's time to upgrade your press or lube.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been loading the 223 cartridge since '68 and for use in gas guns [Ruger Mini14s,, M16A1s and AR 15s] since '72/'73. I found early on in cold weather [40 degrees and below, particularly below freezing] hunting coyote that with ball powders a magnum strength primer [WSP, CCI450 and Federal 205 magnum] was needed for efficient ignition. Those primers were made to ignite ball powders under such cold conditions. CCI 400s and 7 1/2 SR primers would often give click bangs and a large flash out of the muzzle and about 200+ fps less even with extruded powders such as 4895. I load the 223/5.56 to STANAG [military] pressure levels BTW. I always use WSR or CCI 450 primers, mostly the WSR primers.

As to dies, for years I used standard RCBS FL 223 Remington dies and never had any problems with chambering in any 223/5.56 rifle of bolt, SS or gas gun configuration. They did require frequent trimming from the elongation of the case when sizing. I did not use the cases after 5 - 6 firings out of gas guns because incipient case head separation became a problem after that. I used a NS die in my bolt and SS guns and got excellent case life. Then I tried the RCBS standard 223 X-die sizer. It is amazing. I have no chambering problems in my gas guns, or bolt and SS guns either. I have not had to trim any cases since and case life is excellent [usually lose the case before it fails].

I have never found a small base necessary for any rifle with a SAAMI spec 223/5.56 chamber.

[downzero]

I use CCI small rifle magnum in all my AR loads. With ball powder, they are required anyway. With stick powder, I use them because they have the thicker cup. I haven't ever used the 41 primers as the 450s seem to do the job just fine.

I use a Dillon sizing die and I believe it is small base.

I use these reloading practices both for blasting/3 gun type ammo and for longer range match ammunition.

All of my 223 and similar (20 Practical) ammunition goes in semi autos; I do not use bolt guns in 223. If I did, I might consider using a regular small rifle primer if I wasn't using ball powder.

[Lloyd Smale]

If you have to use a sb die you need to learn how to set up a fl die. They are not needed for anything. Size a piece of brass, but before lowering the ram look under the die and see if there is a gap between the shell holder and the die. I bet there is as no matter who makes the press it flexes. You just have to screw the die in a little more.

you havent loaded much 556 once fired brass if you believe that.

[HCH]

I've load a whole lot of 223 for 3 gun. I use standard dies and whatever SR primer I have on hand at the time.

[Tripplebeards]

I use a green box rcbs 223 die set for my POF. I also use federal gold metal match AR primers. Zero feeding issues and excellent accuracy. Shot a .3", 200 yard group with J words doing so. In my 243 AR 10s I've tried both SB sizers and regular RCBS sizers. The 22" heavy barreled 243 shot tighter groups with the normal sizer die. I'm still working group therapy out with the other 243 upper to see which die set I like. Imo the SB die just helps with feeding when you are dumping rounds through a dirty chamber. RCBS told me the case down size sized diamter difference between the two die sets is a 4th of a thickness of a sheet of notebook paper. I can tell that the sized brass drops in way easier with my Lyman 243 checker gauge. These are all with J words. Just dont have any interest in shooting cast out of an AR. AR primer cups are desinged to be a little tougher. Imo use what ever you have on hand. I know when I was buying a CMC trigger for my 243 lower it was rated for AR 10 primers. I use a 3 pound timey in my POF with AR primers and all go go bang.

[Ohio686]

Is it true that sb dies are harder on brass? Just curious

[Ateam]

I just had to get a sb body die for a new ar10. Most of my brass has been through a hk91 at one point or two or three, and they would not chamber in the tight ar10. Never had a problem with 223, but a combination of the right (wrong) chambers will require it occasionally. If you have only one chamber to feed, and set up your FL die properly (or NS for that matter), there should be no need for a sb die. I did have to body die a 300 win mag but the belt makes that a slightly different situation.

I have run all sorts of primers in gas guns and never had a problem.

[Larry Gibson]

If you are pushing a top end load in either 5.56 or 7.62 then a simple change of primer can lower the average psi....but then on the other hand, it can also raise the psi.

BTW; "top end" refers to 62,000 psi for both. Top end loads listed in current manuals conform to 223 SAAMI MAP psi of 56,000 psi. Also for the NATO 7.62 the psi runs 55 - 60,000 psi. For M118SB and M118 LR it runs 62,-63,000 psi (I've measured them). Thus if you load to 223 or 7.62 NATP specs a change of primers probably won't mean much as the ARs are made for milspec psi's (or least should be).

[Tripplebeards]

Is it true that sb dies are harder on brass? Just curious

Imo no. It does take more pressure to size them and that’s why the “ internet” reloaders all post “ it’s hard in the brass. The resizing difference is only 4/10’s thickness of a sheet of paper vs the regular sizer die.

[shampine]

Is it true that sb dies are harder on brass? Just curious

SB dies reduce the diameter of case at the work hardened web , they do not over work the neck/shoulder . If you need to use them for chambering purposes it is the gun that's hard on brass , generous chamber .

[Lloyd Smale]

if your using 223 loading data from a loading manual for 556 loads theres already a safety factor built in because 556 ammo factory ammo is loaded to higher pressures then 223.

[shooterg]

Back when I was young and we were using once fired LC brass sometimes fired from machine guns for High Power, I habitually used a SB sizer before first reload in the M1/M14 style rifles , then standard dies for subsequent loads. Used the same practice with LC brass for the black rifle. Might not have done anything but made me feel better ! Do believe I'd like to have one of them X die thingies - even with a Gracey, trimming is boring.

[Lloyd Smale]

i uses small base dies for every loading. Guess i figured 556 brass is cheap and i have 9 556 guns with various chambers from tight to loose and being able to grab ammo and knowing it will go bang over and over in any of them means more then one more firing out of my brass. What ive found through the years is most 556 brass gets tossed because of loose primer pockets way before it splits. I doubt ive see a half a dozen of the separate in my life and ive shot 100s of thousands of 556 through the years. What i also do is any new once fired i get i run through one of those lee push through carbide bulge buster 223 die. that insures the whole base is to spec because even a sm base die wont size all the way down.

[Larry Gibson]

I use the RCBS X-die for several different cartridges including 5.56/223 and 7.63/308W. With the 5.56 and 7.62 rounds loaded for my gas guns I have not trimmed a case since using the X-die. Case life is also 4 times greater.

For 5.56/223 I suggest the standard X-die unless your gas gun has a very, very tight minimal chamber. Few have such chambers unless unless custom chambered. Almost all ARs, even those with "Wilde" chambers, are to SAAMI spec with most being to milspec dimensions. A SB or "AR" die is not needed.

Almost all, if not all, reloading data in manuals issued the last 10 or so years will have the 223 Remington load data adhering to SAMMI spec (55,000 psi MAP) for the .223 cartridge. Older manuals will have data that is equitable to 5.56 NATO STANAG psi's.

[Jsm180]

I couldn't find a bulge buster in 223 on the Lee site but found one made by LG Outdoors. https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5814886?fs=1 and of course it's back ordered.

[Lloyd Smale]

I couldn't find a bulge buster in 223 on the Lee site but found one made by LG Outdoors. https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5814886?fs=1 and of course it's back ordered.

thats the one. I found mine on amazon. It works real good. Even carbide so no lube is needed.