Savage Impulse straight pull

[richhodg66]

I didn't even know there was such a thing until a little while ago. I always wondered why straight pull bolt actions never caught on. Anyone have or seen one of these yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1SVasdjW2s

[Hickok]

Rich, I just saw a video about the Savage Impulse yesterday. That is a pretty slick looking rifle,...just my opinion.

Like you, I didn't know this was on the market.

[Texas by God]

Kind of Blaser or 1996 Mauser inspired the way I see it. I’ve owned both M95 Steyr and Swiss K 31 center fires and Browning T bolt rim fire rifles and I guess the the noise of the action operating bothered me the most. I guess I’m weird because lever or pump noise goes unnoticed. Yeah, I’m weird.....

[richhodg66]

Around here somewhere, I have a rifle I got from Dad that he got somewhere in the 70s (I was a kid and didn't appreciate such things) which is an old school European sporter, beautifully built on one of those M95 actions, absolutely stunning rifle, but it's chambered in something weird, Dad made brass from 7.62x54 and used 8x50 Austrian dies. I doubt it will ever get shot again, but the idea of a fast handling straight pull sporter intrigues me.

That impulse is ugly as a bowling shoe, and heavy to boot I just read. I heard some where it can be easily changed from right hand to left hand, so that's interesting. Guess I need to go looking for one, I'd like to handle it and see if it might be worth pursuing.

[country gent]

I find the straight pulls Ive worked with to be a little awkward feeling in operation. the twist or rock of the bolt handle to unlock dosnt feel right to me. With a standard bolt action 2 fingers open the rifle and eject the round then the thumb closes it, all with a flick of the wrist. This is a very fast natural feeling operation to me.

Im curious though with out the camming actin built into the bolt action how stiff is the initial extraction on the pull back of the bolt. The locking balls move straight in and out no camming to start a case formed tight to chamber. If the twist of the bit handle provides this timing of the pull and balls release wold be critical. on the plus side this set up wuld allow for a longer front ring making for more room for extractor and ejector with more meat around them. It would also make lug races unneeded resulting in a smoother easier to machine action. A simple bored reamed hole no broaching or edm cuts. Tght tolerences to maintain square. I do see a lot of pluses also

[richhodg66]

I hadn't thought into it that much. Truthfully, the Remington pump rifles are essentially bolt actions that do this it seems (never owned one). Should be able to work fine with a bolt.

A quick check on gunbroker shows none. They must be very new and not even hit the market yet.

[rockrat]

Looks like an adaptation from the H/K roller locked design

[Uncle R.]

Physics will not be cheated - you don't get something for nothing. The reduced total movement of the bolt handle when compared to traditional bolt actions means reduced movement put into operating the action. That reduced movement is likely to require increased force to complete the functions performed by working the action. I expect the compromises required by that design include reduced primary extraction and reduced camming power for chambering dirty, malformed or corroded ammo. Whether or not those are serious issues for a sporting rifle is for the buyer to decide.

Yes - a 760 Remington is a straight pull bolt action too - operated by the forend instead of a rear handle. And yes, a 760 does have reduced camming power and reliability compared to a 700. For myself, the choice would be about accuracy and reliability. The 1/4 second saved by a straight pull over a conventional bolt action would not be much of a factor.

Uncle R.

[DeadWoodDan]

I still shoot my K-31 and that is part of the enjoyment. The rifle can speak for itself, as to why Savage offered it...I believe marketing. I would be more interested in the who(s) and Why(s) of putting it on the market. They must believe there is demand for it. I have become a big Savage fan and since the sale believe they will outlast the big corporate. If anything got to give them credit for taking a leap?

[Texas by God]

I believe that Browning offered a straight pull variation of the A-bolt years ago, didn’t they? Eclipse or some such?

[swheeler]

Interesting but that 8.8 pounds sounds heavy to me for a hunting rifle, $1400 a little steep too.

[john.k]

The straight pulls are aimed at markets where the peons cant own auto loaders..........but can pretend their s-p is a auto.........incidentally some go very close too,with auto closing.

[richhodg66]

The straight pulls are aimed at markets where the peons cant own auto loaders..........but can pretend their s-p is a auto.........incidentally some go very close too,with auto closing.

You may be right. I'm sure not gonna spend that kind of cash on one with so many really good and really cheap bolt actions on the American market now just to get that feature.

[firefly1957]

I can not see a reason for the straight pull bolt action a smooth pump is faster and you can put it on target as you close action while shooting finger stays in place.
I had a Remington 760 in .270 Winchester that thing was a tack driver and a fast shooter .

For the foolish people that think a bolt gun will be safer from politicians they need to look at England and Australia where they are treated the same as everything else . Going to a muzzle loader probably will not be safe for long either democrats already have an eye on them as being "loophole" guns!

[1Hawkeye]

I kinda like the idea. If it all works out as Savage planed it too it will be an American version of a Blaser at one third of the price. I wouldn't mind a .308 with a spare .22-250 barrel.

[ironbrew]

One thing I did not see in any of the videos (yeah, I went down the rabbit hole) was if you could cycle the bolt without breaking cheek weld.

Somebody mentioned auto closing bolts on a bolt action rifle. Never heard of that. Does it really get you any faster? I know I've watched the (Norwegian?) mad minute, and I figure in the 40's, on target, in one minute with 8 mag changes (5 round mags)... That's impressive.

[megasupermagnum]

I think the ball bearing "lugs" are a unique system. I'll be interested to see how they do over time. My main concern there is I know from experience, whether a firearm, or car, or whatever, a ball and detent will build crud over time, and often stop it from working if not cleaned. I guess my question would be how easy is it to clean the bolt? If it is as simple as pulling out the firing pin and whatever the locking mechanism is, then dumping out the balls, that should be no big deal. The other thing is now you have to try and clean the detents inside the barrel hood, which is not super easy to get to.

As for being a straight pull, I'm glad someone is trying to come up with something different. I personally can't stand bolt actions, and finally got rid of my last one. I no longer own any. I'm not all that impressed by the straight pull in this video. It might be them trying to make it look fast, but it sure looks like they are running it rather hard. While I see the handle is slightly adjustable, I don't like that it is still a standard looking bolt handle. A nice big instinctive handle like the Swiss k31 has would be my preference.

Personally I think this will be a flop. If they wanted a fast operating and accurate rifle, but cheaper than a lever or semi-auto, then the clear answer is a pump action. The Remington 760 and 7600's were great. Their only issues were that with a less than ideal barrel mount method, and the pump's tube mounted to the barrel, accuracy was very good, but not quite what a bolt can deliver. I bet Savage is kicking themselves now that Remington is gone. How sweet would a box magazine fed, barrel nut and free floating barrel, pump action rifle be? I'd buy one for sure.

[richhodg66]

How can anybody hate bolt actions? Hands down the easiest type to get good performance out of simple and strong, concentric and accurate..

If it weren't for the en bloc clips and split receiver bridge, those Hungarian M95s could be the basis for a great sporter.

[GARD72977]

Savage will screw this up

[swheeler]

How can anybody hate bolt actions? Hands down the easiest type to get good performance out of simple and strong, concentric and accurate..

If it weren't for the en bloc clips and split receiver bridge, those Hungarian M95s could be the basis for a great sporter.

Rich I think you got the M95 mixed with something else, but it does use an enbloc clip.

[megasupermagnum]

How can anybody hate bolt actions? Hands down the easiest type to get good performance out of simple and strong, concentric and accurate..

If it weren't for the en bloc clips and split receiver bridge, those Hungarian M95s could be the basis for a great sporter.

It is fairly easy when lever actions, pump actions, gas semi-auto's, even break action single shots seem more pleasant to shoot for me. I've also never owned a bolt action I 100% trusted, and that includes my Savage 110L, which you had to operate just so, or it would not eject right. The shotguns were the worst. Bolt actions are a dirt cheap way to mate a magazine to a barrel. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing elegant about them.

I've owned bolt actions rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Didn't like a single one of them. I don't know what else to say. I don't know what people see in them other than they are commonly built for the super-accurate competitions. When a break action TC Encore that is way more user friendly can shoot MOA or better easy, I don't see any need for a bolt action for my own purposes.

[country gent]

Didn't colt or one maker make a turn bolt where the lugs retracted into the body with straight receiver (no cut outs for the lugs)? I did look at the assembly drawing on svavges site. couldnt tell if the were actual balls or radius end pins that locked on to the cam to raise and lower. Im thinking when the bolt handle rotates back it turns a sleeve the pulls the pins down and the sleeve on one end or the other provides initial extraction for the case.

I can see this being a very strong square and smooth action.

[Three44s]

I say let the rifle speak for itself!

If it’s good that will be borne out. If not, that will become evident as well.

Three44s

[richhodg66]

Savage will screw this up

How so?

[richhodg66]

Rich I think you got the M95 mixed with something else, but it does use an enbloc clip.

You're right, they don't have the split receiver like other Mannlichers, not sure what I was thinking.

[FergusonTO35]

One thing I did not see in any of the videos (yeah, I went down the rabbit hole) was if you could cycle the bolt without breaking cheek weld.

Somebody mentioned auto closing bolts on a bolt action rifle. Never heard of that. Does it really get you any faster? I know I've watched the (Norwegian?) mad minute, and I figure in the 40's, on target, in one minute with 8 mag changes (5 round mags)... That's impressive.

Ruger made some Mini-14's for the UK that did not have a gas system, so effectively a straight pull bolt action with spring driven reloading.

[Herb in Pa]

Didn't colt or one maker make a turn bolt where the lugs retracted into the body with straight receiver (no cut outs for the lugs)? I did look at the assembly drawing on svavges site. couldnt tell if the were actual balls or radius end pins that locked on to the cam to raise and lower. Im thinking when the bolt handle rotates back it turns a sleeve the pulls the pins down and the sleeve on one end or the other provides initial extraction for the case.

I can see this being a very strong square and smooth action.

Colt Sauer made by Sauer & Sohn in Germany, rear locking lug design. Three bolt lugs were flush with the bolt body until the bolt handle was lowered. In essence it was a cylinder in a sleeve until the bolt was lowered. Smoothest action I ever owned, had them in 25-06 and 375 H&H.

[Jack Stanley]

How so?

Rich I can't speak for anyone else but the problem I've had with Savage is the plastic stock . Wood stock have been fine , not many other problems with their stuff .

Jack

[GregLaROCHE]

I watched the video and it was impressive. However, I not crazy about more moving parts with probably high tolerances. If the rifle wasn’t perfectly maintained, what would happen if those bearings started to stick?

[QuackAttack24]

Physics will not be cheated - you don't get something for nothing. The reduced total movement of the bolt handle when compared to traditional bolt actions means reduced movement put into operating the action. That reduced movement is likely to require increased force to complete the functions performed by working the action. I expect the compromises required by that design include reduced primary extraction and reduced camming power for chambering dirty, malformed or corroded ammo. Whether or not those are serious issues for a sporting rifle is for the buyer to decide.

Yes - a 760 Remington is a straight pull bolt action too - operated by the forend instead of a rear handle. And yes, a 760 does have reduced camming power and reliability compared to a 700. For myself, the choice would be about accuracy and reliability. The 1/4 second saved by a straight pull over a conventional bolt action would not be much of a factor.

Uncle R.

^Like^

[MT Gianni]

Most biathlon rifles are straight pull. They are fast and accurate.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This Action's Mechinism has been around for along time and was never very popular. The reason why is that if the heat treating of the action body isn't as hard as the steel balls repeated firing will "Peen" the seating area thus loosening it and increasing Headspace.

Where I first saw this mechinism was in Yamaha 80 and Hodaka 90/100/125 Transmissions back in the 60's. The Input shaft of the trans had 4 or 5 gears on it which were solid. The Driven Output shaft was hollow and had holes in it for each of the gears which had the balls captured between the shaft and a spring that held all the balls in the shaft. Each gear had the mating groves for the balls and when the balls were pushed out by the shifter shaft it locked the gear to the shaft and power would flow thru that gear. The rest of the time all other gears on the Output Shaft just rotated freely around the output shaft . Only one gear could be driven at a time.

This was called a "Constant Mesh Transmission," Because all the gears were in mesh all the time.

the Hodaka trans was lightyears better than the Yamaha 80 just because to the heat treating of the shaft and gears. Also we designed it as opposed to the Japanese who were still coming up the technology ladder to catch us.

Randy

[Wayne Smith]

This Action's Mechinism has been around for along time and was never very popular. The reason why is that if the heat treating of the action body isn't as hard as the steel balls repeated firing will "Peen" the seating area thus loosening it and increasing Headspace.

Where I first saw this mechinism was in Yamaha 80 and Hodaka 90/100/125 Transmissions back in the 60's. The Input shaft of the trans had 4 or 5 gears on it which were solid. The Driven Output shaft was hollow and had holes in it for each of the gears which had the balls captured between the shaft and a spring that held all the balls in the shaft. Each gear had the mating groves for the balls and when the balls were pushed out by the shifter shaft it locked the gear to the shaft and power would flow thru that gear. The rest of the time all other gears on the Output Shaft just rotated freely around the output shaft . Only one gear could be driven at a time.

This was called a "Constant Mesh Transmission," Because all the gears were in mesh all the time.

the Hodaka trans was lightyears better than the Yamaha 80 just because to the heat treating of the shaft and gears. Also we designed it as opposed to the Japanese who were still coming up the technology ladder to catch us.

Randy

I can see the peening action in a transmission that is running constantly and under relatively constant strain, Randy, - but how does that translate to a rifle action that is stressed infrequently? Used in a full auto arm I could see it as a problem, but a bolt action?

[ulav8r]

Same as peening to form a head on a rivet, many continued blows.

[biffj]

This Action's Mechinism has been around for along time and was never very popular. The reason why is that if the heat treating of the action body isn't as hard as the steel balls repeated firing will "Peen" the seating area thus loosening it and increasing Headspace.

Where I first saw this mechinism was in Yamaha 80 and Hodaka 90/100/125 Transmissions back in the 60's. The Input shaft of the trans had 4 or 5 gears on it which were solid. The Driven Output shaft was hollow and had holes in it for each of the gears which had the balls captured between the shaft and a spring that held all the balls in the shaft. Each gear had the mating groves for the balls and when the balls were pushed out by the shifter shaft it locked the gear to the shaft and power would flow thru that gear. The rest of the time all other gears on the Output Shaft just rotated freely around the output shaft . Only one gear could be driven at a time.

This was called a "Constant Mesh Transmission," Because all the gears were in mesh all the time.

the Hodaka trans was lightyears better than the Yamaha 80 just because to the heat treating of the shaft and gears. Also we designed it as opposed to the Japanese who were still coming up the technology ladder to catch us.

Randy

All the standard transmissions I worked with were constant mesh but normally they used a dog clutch to slide between two gears for engagement....not moving the gear itself.


HK didn't come up with the roller locking system so its definitely not a copy of their design. I think Savage is using ball type bearings and its a different system.

straight pulls are a niche market and whether they are any better than a turn bolt, lever, slide action or whatever has little to do with their existence. There are those who like the actions so there is a marketer who will put one on the market. In reality there are some advantages to the actions like there are with any of the others. I like the Swiss straight pulls and the Mannlichers are cool too. I'm not being shot at though so I don't really care about speed and camming action. I like them for reasons that are probably only my own. Its a neatness factor. I've got turnbolts and semi's as well. Never been a savage fan though....

Frank

[JHeath]

Most biathlon rifles are straight pull. They are fast and accurate.

Yes and they extract .22lr just great.

[JHeath]

MT Gianni sorry, that probably sounded snarky.

The Lee Navy and Ross and K31 all worked and were centerfires. The Ross took some criticism, not all of it correct or fair.

Straight-pull solves an imaginary problem that bolts are slow. Bolts can pump out rounds really fast. Match rifle shooters joked to service rifle shooters that bolts are faster than M1As because "you don't have to wait for the action to cycle."

Somebody above commented that bolts are a dirt cheap way to mount a barrel to something and there is nothing elegant about them. That is what I told the salesman at Rigby hoping to get a better price on an engraved .416.