Cap and ball sanity check

[brewer12345]

Will be trying out my 1858 for the first time tomorrow snd just want to make sure I have the process down. As I understand things:

- fire a cap through each nipple
- charge each chamber
- put a wad in each chamber
- put a ball in each chamber and use the loading lever to ram it down
- cap the nipples
- shoot
- repeat

Am I missing anything? Plan to try real black 3F and Black MZ. This is a pietta 36 if it matters.

[Thundermaker]

I 've been using lee REAL bullets in mine because they carry their own lube, so no need for a wad or grease over the chambers. The wad isn't entirely necessary with a ball either. You can just put a dab of crisco over the ball if you want lube. I charge a chamber, seat the projectile, then move to the next chamber. No spillage that way.

[brewer12345]

OK, so serially load each chamber. Powder, wad, ball, move on to the next chamber.

How many shots should I expect before things gum up?

[derek45]

It may gum up faster if you use conventional gun lubes like CLP, rem oil etc.

I use Ballistol, and it works well

I run a Colt 1860 clone, and when it gets fouled, I can keep going after I hit the cylinder front, with a toothbrush dipped in a bit of bore butter

https://i.imgur.com/4wFFaWx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kGvpoq8.jpg

[brewer12345]

Was planning to bring a bottle of hoppe's black powder lube/cleaner and some paper towels to do a bit of clean up as necessary.

[rodwha]

I don’t waste caps firing to remove any oils or whatnot and have never had any issues. But then I rarely oil the chambers anyway.

I use Ballistol on my cylinder pin and it works and works and works. Otherwise it lasts about 3 cylinders and it’s dragging a bit but works.

[oldracer]

I have 4 1858 Remingtons and here is how I shoot them and then the things I had to do to make them a tad more reliable/shoot more accurately.
- Before going to the range I remove the cylinder, clean each chamber with spray cleaner and wipe dry. Put the cylinder back in its gun.
- At the range I remove a cylinder, use a loader called "Tower of Power", load 28 grains of Goex FFG, fill the remainder of the cylinder with Cream of Wheat, press a round ball making sure there is a thin ring of lead shaved.
- Cover the cylinder opening with a solid lube, I use Doug Knoell brand but others will work.
- Reinstall the cylinder, making sure it is smooth at half cock then put on the percussion caps insuring they seat all the way. I use a small wooden dowel.
- When able such as a match, fire each cylinder checking the next one to insure it is okay.
- When all 6 are fired, pull the cylinder off the gun, clean it with spray cleaner and also swab out the barrel and forcing cone area. I have a separate set of cleaning rods just for the pistols.
- Note I use round balls and have tried the various bullets but went back to the round balls because my 1858s had a very slow barrel twist and the two types of bullets tumbled.

Work I did: Adjust the cylinder free play so there is .006 or so of clearance between it and the barrel face otherwise the carbon sludge buildup can jam things.
I had to taper the inlet to the forcing cone areas on all 4 of mine as there was no taper at all. You can rent a hand turned reamer for a week or so.
Make sure that the cylinder turns free and locks up well for each shot.
Make sure each cylinder (if you have more than one gun) stays with that particular gun.

I have won several of our pistol target matches since I tweeked the guns especially the forcing cone taper made a huge difference. Good luck, they are a BLAST to shoot!
John

[brewer12345]

Thanks, John. I have heard varying things about the use of lube on top of the balls. Some use it as gospel, others seem to think it just makes a mess. What does it do for you?

I am looking forward to shooting it. Spent most of last summer shooting round ball out of 50, 54, and 58 rifles. Never really fooled with a cap and ball, but I like revolvers real well in cartridge versions so black powder ought to be fun. I am a round ball shooter in general, so I would probably only try a conical bullet if I couldn't get a ball to shoot well.

[GregLaROCHE]

Before you put on caps to dry fire, take a quick look in the nipple, to be sure nothing has found it’s way inside the nipples. I once blew out a nipple because some lint or something found it’s way into it.
Second, before you start reloading, take a look into the cylinders, just to be sure there are no burning embers left.

[owejia]

If you really like shooting the cap & ball, several Youtube videos of making paper cartridge loads that can be premade and used. This was done during the War between the States with hand made manufacturing. Have used this method and simple to do. Hard for a mounted soldier to reload otherwise.

[waksupi]

When I was still shooting the revolvers, I would put a pinch of corn meal over the powder, rather than lube the cylinder. I would get two or three more cylinders fired before the gun would tie up, as opposed to a grease lube.

[derek45]

If you really like shooting the cap & ball, several Youtube videos of making paper cartridge loads that can be premade and used. This was done during the War between the States with hand made manufacturing. Have used this method and simple to do. Hard for a mounted soldier to reload otherwise.

https://i.imgur.com/mBlDai5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Oxf62AB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MsGzbI3.jpg

[Hellgate]

Before loading, while at home check all the flash holes in the nipples to see daylight through them. If they are clear don't waste any precious caps by popping them to clear the nipples. I've seen caps popped on empty chambers actually clog the nipple because there was no powder charge to blow back and clear cap paper out of the nipple. If any flash hole is not wide open I run a nipple pick through them and finish with a blast of canned air to blow out any debris. To load I just hold the gun upward, dump 5 or 6 charges, put a wad over each charge and then ram a ball onto each charge. Then, to prevent cylinder binding I put a single drop of either Ballistol or olive oil right where the front of the cylinder rubs on the frame. I twirl the cylinder a bit to work the oil down onto the cylinder pin which has been lubed with just about anything including automotive bearing grease (my favorite and very cheap). The oil drop after loading the full cylinder and before capping will keep the cylinder pin lubed & the cylinder rotating freely all day. I use a push stick to do the final seating of the caps. Remington #10 caps are the most versatile and fit many more nipples that the CCI #11s or the RWS#1075s. Good cap fit is a must for reliable shooting. I shoot the .454 home cast round ball 99% of the time with a home made lube wad and 20-30 grs FFFg. If I want a "thumper" I use 30 grs FFFg under a hand lubed LEE 200gr conical without the wad.

[brewer12345]

Shot 5 cylinders today before I ran out of time and light. I need to figure out how to expedite the loading process in the field, but for a first outing I did not worry about setting any land speed records while I learned the process. Rem #11 caps were too big, but the Rem #10 worked. Don't have a whole lot of either, so will need to try the CCI 11 caps out and maybe the homemade ones. Ordered a set of replacement nipples from Track as well as a smaller powder measure. I tried 10, 15 and 20 grains of 3F and it definitely preferred the highest charge I tried. Will need to experiment with charges and powders.

Lubing the cylinder pin and face with Hoppe's #9 black powder cleaner and lube helped keep things moving freely.

[oldracer]

Glad you had fun shooting the pistol! I use a spray cleaner called Powder Blast shot through the nipple and then wipe the cylinder with a patch. That cleaner evaporates quickly and blows out stuff very well once the cylinder is removed. I have some nipples made by Uncle Mikes (I think) and they have a hex base instead of the two flats like most nipples have and they use #11 caps. As I mentioned I use 28 grains of Goex FFG powder which is the load my mentor (now deceased) said he used and that works great with the round balls. Since my lead balls shave a slight ring of lead when pressing into the cylinder that acts as a pretty good seal. The lube is to go down the barrel ahead of the ball and act as a lube which made a huge improvement in accuracy. As I noted it does tend to spray out slightly from the gap between the cylinder and barrel. Have fun.
John

[Hellgate]

Note to myself: I just realized he has a 36 caliber Remington "Navy". So, as for recommended loads I would recommend 15, 20 or 25 grs FFFg or sub and either the .375 or .380" dia ball or the LEE 130 gr conical. I shoot mostly the 130gr conicals in my 36 Remington Navies. It is too late but I believe the SlixShot nipples take the CCI#11s and Rem#10s.

[mooman76]

I myself wouldn't fire a cap on each cyl MT. I usually do for rifle but that's just one compared to 6. That and you are shooting straight through rather than in a rifle the flame has to go around corners. Just clean any oil residue out before loading with alcohol or whatever you use.

[charlie b]

I had a remington replica back in the late70's and 80's.

I would just load a cylinder with powder, ram the ball, repeat. No lube/crisco/wads. Install caps and ready to shoot. I'd pull the cyl pin to clean/lube the pin every three or four loadings. Later I made a loading stand for use at the range. Easy with the remington since pulling the cylinder is so simple. If I ever thought I'd need 6 more shots in the field I'd get a second cylinder.

Some people claim a danger of chain fires without wads or lube. My only caution is to make sure the bullets are sized right. You should shave a ring of lead all around the bullet. That should seal the chambers if they are machined 'straight' and smooth.

[bigted]

By far and away my very best accuracy and repeatability is accomplished with lube OVER the ball on the face of the cylinder.

Paper cartridges are a hoot and very much faster AT THE RANGE. Also fun to make. My method allows me to assemble 50 in around 35 or 40 minutes ... including lubing them.

You are on a pathway that is very addictive ... good luck and have fun at all costs.

[brewer12345]

By far and away my very best accuracy and repeatability is accomplished with lube OVER the ball on the face of the cylinder.

Paper cartridges are a hoot and very much faster AT THE RANGE. Also fun to make. My method allows me to assemble 50 in around 35 or 40 minutes ... including lubing them.

You are on a pathway that is very addictive ... good luck and have fun at all costs.

What kind of lube and how much?

I am already eyeing a 44 with a full 8 inch barrel.

[oldracer]

I currently use a "solid" type of lube and mine is the one made by Doug Knoell. It is very similar to that which is made by Montana Vintage Arms as Doug passed away last December. I tried using a soft lube like Bore Butter but after 4 shots or so it runs out of the remaining openings.
John

[Walks]

When I get to the Range I remove the cylinder from the Revolver. Holding it with the chambers up, I squirt a bit of acetone or Gunscrubber or brake cleaner into the chambers. Watching it run out the nipples means all chambers are dry and nipples clear.

[bimus]

For lube on top of the ball that has worked for me is taking a empty tooth past tube and blowing it back to the shape it was when new and wash it out with warm water and let the in side dry then melt some Crisco and pour it in the tube and let it firm up . Then after setting the ball on the powder and the lid off the Crisco tube squeeze and a little liquid will come out wipe it with a rag the more solid Crisco will follow and fill each cylinder with it wipe off the extra . As you shoot the Crisco will be partly blown out of the other loaded cylinders and that ok there will be some Crisco to seal around the cylinder wall and the lead ball . I use my cap and ball revolvers and carbine for hunting small game in the fall when backpacking .

[bigted]

What kind of lube and how much?

I am already eyeing a 44 with a full 8 inch barrel.

My lube has several faces. The one consistent is SPG. I make my own lube which has a couple recipes. My favorite for function AND smell is 50/50 "real bee wax/lard" mix also is an easy one being 50/50 bee wax/Vaseline mix. Another is bee wax/ olive oil. Best and easy use is the SPG which needs only money to procure ... needing no real effort other then having some bucks on hand to buy it.