solar powered deep well pump ?

[Czech_too]

First some backround info. One of the clubs I belong to acquired, in the last year, some property. We had to re-locate, lost our lease. This property has no readily available power source, our thinking is that solar is the only viable alternative. To run electric from the road to where it would be needed would be an easy 850', cost prohibitive. This year we'd like to have a water well drilled to supply strictly non-potable water so that we could at least wash our hands, and it would be nice to be able to hose down some of the equipment if needed, the mower(s) especially. I am a committee of 3, me/myself/and I, who's basically in charge of the range development. I do not have a backround in solar energy or well pumps. I've inquired of the membership if anyone has any experience in solar and gotten no response. So, I guess what I'm asking here is ... has anyone dealt with something like this? What size of a DC pump, what size of solar panels, deep cycle storage batteries and everything else that goes along with it. And no, I have not yet contacted any local drilling outfits. I don't want to be sold a bill of goods which doesn't suit our needs.

Brian

[Buzz Krumhunger]

At the ranch I have a solar powered Grundfos pump on a well about 200’ deep. I believe the standing water level is at around 150’. If I remember correctly, there are 10 80watt panels running the pump. The size of the pump and power requirements you need will be dependent on the depth of the well and how much water you need. My pump can produce a maximum of about 10GPM on a sunny day.

I don’t have batteries on my set-up. It pumps into a 3000 gallon tank on a hill top and water gravity flows back down to the house and out buildings. Much less wear and tear on a pump when it isn’t turning on and off every time water gets used.

It sounds like you’re going to spend a lot of money just to wash your hands and rinse equipment. My set-up ran about $10k turn-key.

[Harter66]

In the long game you might be better served with an Aero motor/windmill type pump . Low maintenance , no batteries , wiring etc . Some will lift 80' with multistage pumps .

It's pretty easy to end up with with 3k in a basic set up , whether you choose a DC direct feed pump or go the inverter route with an AC pump .

[MaryB]

If you are handy and know basic electricity the electric part is all DIY. With a location I can give you panel tilt for yer round use. No battery system, pump to a tank on a stand. I can't imagine you needing more than 250 gallons a day so a used IBC tote would make a great water tank. 10' up would give decent pressure... if more os needed for washing the mower a pump could be added that runs off battery(or a running truck).

Pump $2995
A single 36 volt 300+ watt panel figure under $300

That will give 3gpm and a 360' head

can add more panels to get better flow rates.

[jmorris]

What would it cost to take water with you to wash your hands, since you are also going to have to bring some of you intend to drink any?

[Froogal]

In the long game you might be better served with an Aero motor/windmill type pump . Low maintenance , no batteries , wiring etc . Some will lift 80' with multistage pumps .

It's pretty easy to end up with with 3k in a basic set up , whether you choose a DC direct feed pump or go the inverter route with an AC pump .
That would be my choice, IF you can find a windmill. The wind was harnessed to pump water years and years before folks even knew what electricity was.

[redneck1]

I'd get an estimate to run power , wanna take bets on what will be cheaper ? 850' isn't all that far and in the long run it will be money better spent and give opportunity for other improvements .
I'd also bet that the well is going to cost more then the power will .

[jonp]

That would be my choice, IF you can find a windmill. The wind was harnessed to pump water years and years before folks even knew what electricity was.

https://aermotorwindmill.com/

[iomskp]

I don't know what the cost would be to put in a tank and have water trucked in from time to time.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Maybe you could use a gasoline generator to operate your submersible pump. Some farmers around here pump old wells with generators, put in a quart of gas, start it , and drive away to the next pasture.

[rockrat]

Thats what I was thinking. Put in a tank and just use a generator to operated the submersible pump to fill the tank. That way you would only have to run the generator every now and then.

[gmsharps]

Why not just a hand pump

gmsharps

[jimlj]

I second checking with the power company to see how much it would cost to get power brought into the sight. It may be more cost effective than solar.

[WebMonkey]

Why not just a hand pump

gmsharps

deep well hand pumps are pricey and few options.

i'd love to have a backup for my 350' well.
:(

[gwpercle]

https://aermotorwindmill.com/

I didn't know they still made those things ...most of the ones I see are in various states of delapidation.
Always wondered how they worked ... when the wind don't blow you don't get water right ?
Gary

[Mal Paso]

You didn't say. How deep?

AC pumps are more durable and less expensive than DC pumps. A nice 4" sub is $1200 or less. Generator to run it.

Panels are $.50 a watt now but the rack to hold them will cost more than the panels. You can run DC pumps without batteries using a controller but I've had better luck using batteries. The extra electricity the controller will waste in the middle of the day is stored in batteries and the pump can run into the evening. Typically Solar Pumps are smaller and a longer run time helps get more water.

[MrWolf]

My well is 400' and would love to have a hand pump but was told basically not realistic. Mary knows a lot about solar and electronics so may want to contact her. I do know I have 4 90 watt panels on my utility shed with two marine deep cycle batteries. Granted my tilt is fixed but in the winter it will not keep my dawn/dusk solar light on all night. I will get three or so days if no sunny weather. I like the idea of a small portable generator to run it while there. Ask the well drillers what they suggest. Probably have seen everything. Good luck.

[popper]

Small tank in back of pickup bed.

[rancher1913]

check out "RPS solar" they have plug and play systems designed for remote stock wells, I have 2 of their systems and their customer service is outstanding. you should be able to do a system for around 3 grand and solar puts the windmills to shame thats why most ranchers are converting their windmills over to solar.

[GregLaROCHE]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see how deep you are thinking the well will be. If it’s not over thirty feet, a simple gas pump could work. If it’s deeper, you would probably be best off with a submersible pump and small generator to run it. Don’t get me wrong, solar can be great, but depending on volume, it may not be cost effective.

You should probably consider a storage tank, so you can run a smaller pump and stock the water for when there is high demand. That water could be pumped with a 12V pump and maybe it’s battery could be charged with a small solar panel.

With all water projects, you need to consider freezing weather. Will you need water when it is below freezing. A storage tank can be buried, using a separate pump, that when you stop pumping, all the water runs out back into the tank or well so it doesn’t freeze. The simplest and most economical would be a tank on a trailer, that could be pulled by a pickup. Fill it up and being it as you need it. If it’s freezing weather, don’t bring it because you probably won’t need it.

I too am building a range with a couple of friends. Luckily, we have a small stream running through the property. For us the local regulations say the whole thing needs to be fenced in and it is in pretty dense woods. Think about where your used (gray) water will be going. Are there any regulations that need to be followed? A simple load of crushed and washed rock will keep the area from getting muddy.

Good luck and keep us posted on your project.

[JRLesan]

You need to consider security for such things as generators and solar panels...

[cwtebay]

What are your pumping requirements in GPM? I have put in several solar pumps in the past 15 years. They are awesome for wells <80', I have one for a well that is 650' - complete waste of money. The actual volume you need is what you need to figure out. From there, take it to your local NRCS and let them do the figuring for you. Otherwise, there are a multitude of on-line pump / solar salesman that will do the same.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Czech_too]

I'm glad that I put this query out there. Knew that I would get some good responses, questions and all that goes with it. Got a lot of homework to do yet, that I knew was coming.

Over the past year we have brought in water, in gallon jugs, for hand washing. My feelings are that if we're to gain/keep the membership, we have to offer some amenities(?) Porta-Potty(s) are sorta expected by everyone but if we're to succeed here we have to offer more than that. We're into our first year of real development, most everything that was done last year was done with temporary usage in mind. As to the expected depth I would put it between 100 & 150'. I had thought of a hand pump at the ranges themselves but based upon what I've read their only good to 25'. A wind turbine has been on my mind since there does seem to be a breeze most times I've been out to the property. How many GPM we would need I don't know. Maybe an elevated tank of sorts would be something to incorporate into all of this. Something I hadn't thought of. Like I said, lots of homework.

NRCS, I'll have to Google that.

[rancher1913]

the system I talked about can be used with a pressure tank to give you "normal" water at the turn of a faucet and if your only going to 150 foot you could get there for 1800 bucks, I just purchased another system and they were on sale.

instead of the old plastic outhouse, with live water you could do a septic and leach field and have real bathrooms and be able to water shade trees too.

[Froogal]

https://aermotorwindmill.com/

Very interesting. Thank you. I did not know they were still being manufactured.

[wv109323]

I think the least expensive way to go is a gas generator of around 3500 watts. They are around $450. That size generator should run any house sized submersible pump up to 4hp. A pump should be around 3-400 bucks. You would need wire and plastic pipe. You need to pump into a tank of a couple hundred gallons and gravity feed to your wash basin. The sysrem would need to be drained for cold weather.
Outdoor pit type toilets would be the least expensive. Porta-potties come with a sevice fee if rented.

[MUSTANG]

https://aermotorwindmill.com/

Yep; looks like what all my Great Grandma's had in Texas and Oklahoma. (As well as the grandmas & grandpas, Aunts and Uncles).

[Mal Paso]

A 4 hp pump will shut down a 3500 watt generator in 2 revolutions if the breaker doesn't get there first. Start Amps are 3-6 times Run Amps.

When I was young I got a great demo. I was helping deck a bridge. I plugged my 1500 watt Milwaukee saw into a 2500 watt generator and pulled the trigger. The generator stopped so fast I thought the piston seized. Couldn't believe it so I did it again. Except for no breaker on the generator all the equipment was working properly.

[BamaNapper]

I'm reminded of years ago when my folks were having a well drilled. They hit water at maybe 50', but had to go maybe 200' for what they considered good water. It could be the case that water would be available for washing, toilets, etc from a shallow well. If potable water isn't required it may open up more options. I have no idea what type of soil would be in the area, or where your water table would be, but I know people who have driven a sand point well themselves to minimize cost.

[MUSTANG]

I'm reminded of years ago when my folks were having a well drilled. They hit water at maybe 50', but had to go maybe 200' for what they considered good water. It could be the case that water would be available for washing, toilets, etc from a shallow well. If potable water isn't required it may open up more options. I have no idea what type of soil would be in the area, or where your water table would be, but I know people who have driven a sand point well themselves to minimize cost.

I have a well at the Moapa House with water level at 10 feet. Required by the State to drill the well to 180 feet through two water/gravel layers, and into a third in order to meet their requirements to avoid "Contaminating the Water" at shallower levels. Did not matter that I was using it for "Agriculture" purposes and not for consumption.

[MT Gianni]

https://idahohandpump.com/
Neighbors are using this with good results for a back up down to 300 ft.

[Geezer in NH]

My house is 912 ft from the power took 3 poles I'd get the power first.

[quilbilly]

I don't know what the cost would be to put in a tank and have water trucked in from time to time.
This is what several people on our neighborhood have decided to do instead of a well and the water brought in is potable, too. The truck brings in about 1,000 gallons of drinkable whenever required and they collect rainwater for washing and container watering in a separate 250gallon tank(s). If part or all of your firing line is covered, just run that water into the rainwater tanks.

[Rich/WIS]

Consider the potential for growth of your club, will the work you do now support requirements in ten years. Given the costs to upgrade for future needs it might be better to go with power from your local utility.

[Czech_too]

At this time I don't know who the local utility is, but if I get a chance to talk with the neighbor tomorrow...
I sent the club president a link to this thread. Regardless of what we decide, I want us to all be on the same page.

[trapper9260]

To start off with you might want to put in a shallow well with a hand pump for all you stated to use it and see how it works out and can put in a jet pump with a motor to pump more water in a tank if needed . Since for how it will be used and later could decide what you like to do after. It would work for starting off before you invest alot of money. Just a idea to give . 20' is about the for a regular hand pump. Just makes sure you have some water with you to prime it . I use to work for some well drilling companies in the past and put a some shallow wells. But need to check your county laws of what you can get away with . If in the city or town check with them.

[rockrat]

Many people farther out of town don't have wells or a water supplier. The usually have to truck in water and fill a 1500 gallon tank or two, at their house. I had looked at a house to buy one time that had two tanks out in the barn in a heated area. There was a well, but only made about 2 gal/min, so they used the well to fill the tanks.
There is a set up closer to town for people who don't have water service, where you can put your money in the machine and it will pump you a certain amount of gallons of water from our local water company, for you to haul yourself.

[rancher1913]

the whole hauling water and using tanks for a public area is a big NO-NO. the chance for contamination is through the roof and the person supplying or the person who owns the tank are liable for any sickness, the only way to do a public supply with a tank is constant monitoring of the water quality and that makes the whole deal very expensive. the rules for your own use and that of the public are hugely different. even if you post "non-potable" signs all over, the tank owner is stil liable unless its a gov agency like a town and then they are protected by governmental immunity.

[Hossfly]

Most rural utilities wont drop poles and run electric for no pay back. I lucked out and lived in a house trailer for 2 years while building my house. 200 amp meter loop. Had big shop at that location.

Built a barn with horse stalls close to new house location, they balked at adding 2 poles wires and trans can for a barn. Told them was building a house, they complied and after 21 yrs i think there making money @.10per KWH

[GregLaROCHE]

Most rural utilities wont drop poles and run electric for no pay back. I lucked out and lived in a house trailer for 2 years while building my house. 200 amp meter loop. Had big shop at that location.

Built a barn with horse stalls close to new house location, they balked at adding 2 poles wires and trans can for a barn. Told them was building a house, they complied and after 21 yrs i think there making money @.10per KWH

At several places I’ve lived, the utility companies didn’t care how far away you were from the closest source. All that they cared about was if there was a right of way and that you paid for the whole thing. Of course you had to use a certified contractor. You couldn’t do it yourself.

[Plate plinker]

How far will your power company get install a meter for free? Here it’s 150’. Put your well near that point and trench black poly (cheap) to wherever you need the water. Water pipe is wayyyyyy cheaper than copper cable.

Another question would be what future buildings might be built? And where?

[CLAYPOOL]

I HAULED 60 loads a year for 15 years. 1/2 ton pick up with helper springs. I could get apx. 390 gals in the tank. Finnaly got a old used 1 ton dump...MUCH BETTER.tilt to unload. DIG A SMALL POND..

[bedbugbilly]

I'm not an expert so just asking - how viable is solar in Ohio - I'm from Michigan where the number of sunny days pretty much equals overcast days at times.

I'd be looking at a generator and a elevated storage tank where gravity is free. Plumb into the overhead tank for a metal sink below to wash hands, etc. If you need to wash things down - a gas powered pressure washer hooked with a hose to the overhead storage tank. In the winter time the tank could be drained and water lines blown out to prevent freezing.

I'm assuming that you are looking at a deep well, but what about driving a shallow well? It wouldn't cost anything to talk with someone who is familiar with the area where your range is located in regards to putting in a shallow well, what you'd need for a pump and storage tank, etc. It might end up being a less costly route to go.

[shooterg]

Useta be power companies gave a break to folks for a "farm drop" . Not any more here BUT checked into power to a back field where the creek was not accessible to the Black Angus we had. Was expensive straight up but when asked if we stuck a trailer for my brother on site it would be next to nothing ! Maybe you need a 14' wide "clubhouse !

[rancher1913]

on one of my remote pastures we have electricity for a stock well and the power company actually charges me a fee because we dont use enough electricity, this is on top of the 50 bucks a month fee just to have a meter, thats one reason I am going all solar, might be an upfront fee but after that its all free.

[KYCaster]

Get an estimate from the electric utility. 850 ft. of service shouldn't be outrageous compared to the cost of the well and solar power.
Call the local water company and ask how much to install a meter on your property. Plumbing permit, trencher rent and material cost to install a yard hydrant should be less than $1K.

Now call a well driller and get an estimate on the well, pump, pipe and wire to the well head. I think you'll be surprised at which is the more attractive.

Only down side to this plan is... you can't get a home owner's plumbing permit for a commercial property so you'll need to find a friendly plumbing contractor to work with you in exchange for a club membership.

Factor in long term maintenance and future expansion, you're way ahead with the utilities.

Just My (not so humble) Opinion
Jerry

[MaryB]

Option is meter just into the property edge so the utility drop is short then trench in 240 the 800 feet(there are voltage drop tables to get the needed wire size). For an 850 foot run and a 30 amp circuit you would need 4/0 copper or 6/0 aluminum to keep the voltage drop around 3%. Menards 4/0 aluminum which had a little over 4% voltage drop(3% is nominal... if you can deal with low voltage it would work) is $3.49 a foot so looking at a chunk of change for the wire alone.

Price wise it is a tossup with solar panels and a small battery bank and an inverter to run 120 volt loads plus the DC well pump can be ran straight from the battery bank. Just make sure you integrate a low voltage disconnect and don't take the batteries below 24 volts! That is 50% discharged. That is the trade off point between battery life and usable charge. Do NOT use the low voltage shutoff in the inverter. No clue why but they are almost always 22 volts, aka totally dead battery and that is how you kill a battery bank fast. Can skip batteries/inverter/low voltage disconnect if you only need the well pump.

[Mal Paso]

AC pumps are usually 230 Volt and if your utility is like mine rural drops run a little hot like 248 Volts. It helps with the Line Loss Mary mentioned.

If it's less than 120' those DC submersible pulse pumps last fairly well.

[Czech_too]

A brief update on this idea/project.
I'm starting to get estimates on drilling the well itself and their a little bit higher than I expected. $5800 just to drill the well, then there's the $425 permit.
For the coming year, or until we have a better idea of how many members are going to renew, we're probably going to go with an elevated IBC tote. The tote can be incorporated into whatever setup is later decided on. When we get to the point where we have a covered firing line, rain barrels connected to gutters will probably be the way to go there.

Ain't nothin' cheap anymore but quality.

[Petrol & Powder]

Czech_too - It appears you now have a better grasp on the big picture. Lots of good advice/information on this thread.

I think you already know this but whatever route you take, you must run the numbers first.

Just a few points that came up on this thread that I think are worth repeating:
The cost of drilling the well was higher than you expected. I think you could get that cost down with some competing bids but it will still be a significant expense.
The cost of running power to the site may be considerably less than all of the other options. I would at least explore that.
The idea of collecting water off of structures and storing it in rainwater barrels has its own set of problems. You will need significant roof surface area, regular rain, a way to store the water without algae/mosquitos/etc. And if you need a pump to get the rain water up to an elevated tank, you might as well skip the elevated tank and just use the pump when needed.
Solar power has some real advantages, particularly in remote locations BUT there are significant initial costs.
A hand pump can be installed in a well deeper than 25' but the pump must be at the bottom of the well. (the "pump" at the top is merely a handle and linkage to operate the pump at the bottom of the well). However, that doesn't eliminate the need to drill a well and a hand pump will not provide a lot of volume on demand.
Don't forget the possibility of simply trucking in water when you need it. It may be the lowest cost solution for a situation where you only need water for short periods of time.


RUN THE NUMBERS FIRST !!!!

Good Luck

[Hossfly]

Yep there’s an app for that, rain water harvest app, if you don’t want to do the math. Will calculate how much water you can expect to get off a given area of roof.

Of course in La. you will get from 40-70’’ a year in an open bucket most years.

[MaryB]

Czech_too - It appears you now have a better grasp on the big picture. Lots of good advice/information on this thread.

I think you already know this but whatever route you take, you must run the numbers first.

Just a few points that came up on this thread that I think are worth repeating:
The cost of drilling the well was higher than you expected. I think you could get that cost down with some competing bids but it will still be a significant expense.
The cost of running power to the site may be considerably less than all of the other options. I would at least explore that.
The idea of collecting water off of structures and storing it in rainwater barrels has its own set of problems. You will need significant roof surface area, regular rain, a way to store the water without algae/mosquitos/etc. And if you need a pump to get the rain water up to an elevated tank, you might as well skip the elevated tank and just use the pump when needed.
Solar power has some real advantages, particularly in remote locations BUT there are significant initial costs.
A hand pump can be installed in a well deeper than 25' but the pump must be at the bottom of the well. (the "pump" at the top is merely a handle and linkage to operate the pump at the bottom of the well). However, that doesn't eliminate the need to drill a well and a hand pump will not provide a lot of volume on demand.
Don't forget the possibility of simply trucking in water when you need it. It may be the lowest cost solution for a situation where you only need water for short periods of time.


RUN THE NUMBERS FIRST !!!!

Good Luck

A small pump to move water from a rain collection barrel to a roof tank would only need 1 solar panel so cost would be pretty cheap, add a 100 amp hour battery and a small charge controller and you could run a couple LED lights if you need to be there at night.