Wheel weight alloy

[Kyregular]

First post here, and new to casting, but have been reloading for years. My question is, I'm trying to find a good mix for 9mm 124 gr around 1100 fps. Bullets will be powder coated. Would straight COWW work, or could I do a 50/50 mix on COWW and pure lead, or maybe 75 COWW and 25 pure lead? Thanks in advance

[poppy42]

I’ve been using straight clip on wheel weights for my pistol calibers for years. 9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Makarov, and 38 special. I would suggest two or 3% tin to help with flow out if available if not straight wheel weights work fine. Like I said the only reason for the tin is the help would fill out. That’s just what I use in my opinion I’m sure others will have different opinions. I can only tell you what I use and what works for me.

[whisler]

I used water quenched wheel weights for mine. Probably harder than I needed but worked just fine.

[fcvan]

50/50 and ASBBPC coating. Years ago, my alloy came straight from the range at work where all they fired was hollow based wad cutters, pretty soft stuff. Back then, I was still lubing with Javalina, never had any leading in 9mm with that lube, but did with another brand. Shortly before going all in on PC, I bought White Label from Lar45, a member here. Really good stuff but I had to get a heater for the Lyman 450.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I like 94-3-3 for 9mm, as I like to load 'em near Max.
you can get pretty close to that alloy, by adding a bit if linotype to COWW.

[centershot]

COWW averages about 96-3-1, so not much tin in it. If fill out is an issue, raise your temp until it flows well. If that makes it too hot to maintain a good cadence then add 1-2% tin. At the price of tin today I prefer to use it sparingly. An alloy of 94-3-3 is a beautiful alloy to cast with and works well for almost anything most of us will use cast boolits for.

[P Flados]

I am using mixes of range lead, boat keel, ww, etc for various uses.

I think most of my 9mm stuff has been between 8 and 9 bhn.

I would try a blend with no more than 50% ww to start with.

However, the catch is that the 9mm can be very tricky to use with cast bullets. For some, using harder lead compensates somewhat for an undersized expander plug.

Now just because you may need this I will give you my "short" standard discussion of cast in the 9mm.

Some people get lucky and find 9mm success easily. Many do not. I was in the latter group. Even though I used PC, my first attempts leaded badly. After probably more than a dozen attempts I found success with the following:

The load works with all powders I have tried up to the max loads provided by the powder makers
I use a custom deep plug 0.3575" expander
I use 0.3595" PC coated boolits (Lee 120 TC) cast from 8 - 9 BHN lead
I use select brass, a mix of Blazer, FC and CCI
I seat and I do flare removal as separate steps

[bangerjim]

PC solves most of you questions about hardness! 50/50 COWW/Pb would work. Or just about anything else like it! PC really changed the "hardness thinking" in the past several years. Now FIT is king....most do not worry about hardness with PC. (mabe in sonic+ rifles) I have shot powder loads/velocities all over the map with at least a dozen cals and MANY profiles within those cals - - with NO leading or problems shooting a Pb mix of 10-12 hardness + PC.

Good luck!

banger :guntootsmiley:

[fredj338]

I use range scrap, softer than clip ww. It works fine for most of the service calibers but 357sig. I usually add some clip ww or lino to it.

[fcvan]

I use range scrap, softer than clip ww. It works fine for most of the service calibers but 357sig. I usually add some clip ww or lino to it.

Fred, I like many, decided to get a 357 SIG barrel for my Glock 22 as I had collected so much brass along the way. A buddy who was a Reserve SO LT and carried an actual SIG and gave me all of his brass, and factory, as he switched to a Kimber 45 ACP. Anyway, very fun to shoot.

The Lee 358-125 RF matched the profile of the FMJ factory loads of which I only shot a box. Factory went 1350 fps, my loads went 1325 and still had room for working up, pressure wise. As you may recall, I was making plain based gas checks for 35 and 45 with great results, I think I even sent you some.

Then I started ASBBPC and haven't needed PBGC for accuracy and velocity. I have also played with the Lee 356-102 RN in the 357 SIG and they were zippy! Still, the 125 RF has been my go to for the SIG round. I started loading the 356-102 RN in an AR 15 9mm carbine, mostly to save lead. 1550 fps from the 16" barrel was heck on tin cans.

I got 1900 fps from a 20" carbine in 45 Colt with a Lee 450-200 RNHP. This is a tapered shank boolit for an 1858 Rem Copy. It likes the PBGC but shot just as well ASBBPC without the check. My favorite load for the Colt Carbine is a RB over Bullseye, at 950 fps. Quiet like a 22 lr, hits like a hammer. Still, back to the 357 SIG, I'd love to make an AR 15 carbine as the longer barrel would allow full use of the case capacity and full burn.

[farmbif]

straight wheel weights have worked for me shooting 9mm max velocity loads, I always lube size at .358 for 9mm

[Rickf1985]

Ok, Somebody has to be the dumb guy and it might as well be me, What is PC? I am looking to cast for 30-06 and 223 so I am kind of out of my area with all of the pistol info here. And what in the world is PC? LOL.

[P Flados]

PC = Powder Coat
ASBB = Air Soft BB (ASBB + powder + boolits are placed in a #5 tub & shaken to generate the static that makes the powder stick)

[farmbif]

powder coating, you put your newly cast bullets in a plastic tub throw in some powder paint like they sell at harbor freight oe Eastwood auto body supplies or smoke sells on swapping and selling, add some plastic bb's to increase static electric charge, put lid on container and shake em up real good. place bullets on baking tray covered with parchment paper or screen and bake in the oven.
I've never done it but a whole bunch of folks say it works great.

[Rickf1985]

Gotcha, I had just stumbled onto the thread about PC and the whys and why nots. That thread is what 12 or more pages!!! I will have to do some more research on it but I don't really see where the lubrication is coming from if you run the bullet through a sizer and scrape off the coating where it would normally contact the barrel. In a lubed bullet the lube is in the groove and melts into the barrel. Ok, More research on threads dedicated to that subject, thanks for the direction.

[bangerjim]

YOU DO NOT SCRAPE PC OFF in sizing dies!!!!! If it is applied and cure properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you don’t have lube grooves on FMJ’s. Right? PC does not need lube grooves. The stuff is slick and hard.

I and many MANY others have recovered spend rounds from boards, trees, etc with the PC totally in place!
The test we all use is the hammer test......pound a coated boolit into a small cube on a flat steel plate......no PC should flake off. It will break open where the Pb stretches under it, but will not COME OFF.

Your sizing dies are much kinder to Pb that that, so will NEVER remove the PC.

Read a WHOLE (!!!) bunch more and you will learn the magic of PC. I will never go back to olde school grease lubes! And thousands on here say the same thing.

Nothing we can say in words will prove it.......just DO IT and you will find out what you have been missing.

Banger

[LenH]

Welcome aboard, one of the first lessons I learned on this board is that FIT IS KING all else is secondary. And that includes bullet hardness. I now shoot
alloy that is not over 10 BNH but then again I am not pushing those very hard.

The guy that taught me reloading and casting said that you need to shoot #2 alloy. 90-5-5 Lead antimony and tin. That was 45+ years ago and he as passed on
and I found this site and was astonished how little I knew about alloy and casting.

[bangerjim]

Yes! Pay VERY little attention to the "sage" advise from decades ago! We all have moved on to more modern proven ideas of FIT not hardness and PC instead of grease.

Once you get going with PC, you will be amazed at how well it protects your barrels, maintains accuracy and does not leave a mess behind like grease does.

Advice: do NOT start out with some weird color and brand of powder. Buy a standard color (blue, red, green) from Smoke on here. And get BLACK ASBB's no other color from him too! Use a #5 coolwhip tub and shake HARD up and down for 30-40 seconds. After you figure out the tricks, you can branch out to other ideas. Stick with what we have proven works time and time again!

Use a GOOD QUALITY convection oven (not a cheap-o standard one). Check the temp inside with a QUALITY oven thermometer to insure you are getting 400F. The dial on the front normally means nothing! (baking a big pizza is totally different than baking tiny boolits!) Bake for 10 min after the powder turns all shiny. No water dropping needed here!

banger

[winshooter]

Is a good quality convection oven really necessary. I have an old toaster oven that easily gets to a “verified” 400F. Was thinking of using this instead of adding one more piece of reloading equipment to an already over crowed list of items.
Thanks.

[P Flados]

Lots of boolits have been cooked in toaster ovens.

You just need to pay attention to getting enough cook time after the powder on the least exposed (the ones in the middle) has started to melt.

Now once you start using it for powder coating, it should probably not get used for food prep anymore.

[Conditor22]

Welcome to the addiction Kyregular :bigsmyl2:

WOW guys, 20 replies and only 1 person welcomed the new member :killingpc:killingpc:killingpc

I go around 12 BHN for 9MM casting at 720° (you can add a little tin/pewter if needed to help the lead flow better. preheating the mold to 400° on a hotplate kickstart your casting with good boolits right from the start.

PC gives you more leeway in alloy hardness.

[WRideout]

Welcome, Kyregular. When I first started casting, I used clip-on wheel weights exclusively for both rifle and pistol because that is what I had. Used that for years without a problem; don't know what the actual hardness was. Nowadays I use mostly range scrap, which I find is fairly hard for pistol boolits. I have molded 9mm boolits out of range scrap w/ about 1-2% tin added and they work fine. In my experience, softer is better for pistol, and decisions about alloy usually come down to cost and availability.

Wayne

[dtknowles]

Welcome and sorry to add to the confusion. Alloy hardness is not very important. Like others have said. Fit is king or as big as you can make function is best. Do not size your 9mm cast bullets to .355" diameter. Do not size your brass so you can't seat a .357" diameter bullet without crushing it. Get a expander that matches the biggest bullet you can get to plunk in your pistol. Matches means expands to 1 to 2 thou under bullet diameter. Hard bullets can compensate for some short comings, but only sometimes.

Plunk, a round dropped into the chamber fully chambers with a plunk sound. Meaning it does not hang up and just drops home.

Unless you are shooting light bullets, less than 115 gr. at +P velocities you will not need hard lead. 50/50 pure/COWW is plenty hard.

Tim