RCBS .45 ACP shot form die

[Mk42gunner]

I finally used the RCBS forming die I bought a few years ago. I must say it is a lot easier to make decent cases than with the hodgepodge of assorted dies I used to use, not to mention the despised case trimmer.

Next project- using the loading dies and making loads that cycle through my 1911.

Robert

[gmsharps]

I do not the cases you are forming from but if you have a couple of 45 win mag cases they really work well

Gmsharps

[ReloaderFred]

The problem with using .45 Winchester Magnum brass is it usually splits the first firing, at least in my experience. Using .308, or .243 brass, will last longer. It's also not a good idea to use .30-06 brass, since the relief cut for the extractor isn't large enough, and can result in a broken extractor in a 1911.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Murphy]

While I have loaded for shot loads for 38/357's, I've yet to load any for my 45 Autos. I also have two 45 Auto revolvers. My one experience has been shooting a CCI 45 aluminum cased cartridge through a Mountain Gun in 45 Auto. I'm thankful I only needed one shot out of the six in the full moon clip to get what needed doing done. Extraction was a problem. I'm not sure what caused it. I just knew I have zero plans of ever doing it again with that gun.

I have entertained making some out of 243 or 308 brass to see how those work. I was aware of the RCBS die set, but sticker shock waved me off of that idea. The various other methods of using X number of dies, just isn't that appealing. If not too pricey, what I would like to see is a set of dies that crimps the case the way Remington once made them. I guess for now when it comes to my revolvers and shot shell loads, I'll be looking at the CCI shot cups.

Murphy

[Mk42gunner]

I hear you on the sticker shock Murphy. I did not buy these at retail. I got them a couple of years ago at an estate auction, had to buy two good sized boxes to get both. One was $7.50, the other was $12.50, and then some jerk tried to say the form die set wasn't complete since it didn't have three dies.

I firmly told the auctioneer that it was complete, and I would give the $12.50 that I had bid. (It had the form die and the extended shellholder in the box).

Also included was a RCBS 32-098-SWC mold, no handles for the mold though.

The problem is I can't find my bag of #12 shot. I guess I'll make the trial loads with salvaged #9, and order another ten pound bag of #12.

For this round of testing I am using a new bag of SIG .308 Winchester brass that I bought a couple of years ago.

Robert

[Baltimoreed]

I sold my set of .45scp shot dies last year or so but I was able to make shot shells that would cycle in my .45, thinking that I used.308 brass, #9 shot, punched clear plastic pieces to go over the shot and then painted it with clear nail polish to seal it. Also used gas checks on some too.

[Bwana John]

While I thought it was not that hard to make them with 41 mag dies, and getting them to cycle was also easy.... Getting them to "pattern" well was a whole different matter.

[dbosman]

The RCBS die set is made to use commercial .308 or .243 brass. You can size military brass, but forming the neck is best done in a big, iron, press.

[JimB..]

I’ve had this box of 243 brass sitting around and nothing to do with it, so I gave it away last week. Never thought about using it for shot shells.

[Mk42gunner]

Ah the joys of non-standard load development. I made three trial loads with 6.0 Grains of 231, a cut down claybuster 410 wad, #9 shot and an overshot card cut from a primer sleeve.

All rounds fed from the magazine, and fired. They even sort of extracted, what they did not do was eject. I had two that almost rechambered and one almost stovepipe.

I have very light rifling marks on the brass case necks. Am going to try powder charges of both plus and minus .2 gr.

Gun is a Kimber Classic Custom 1911 that works with all my other loads, so I do not want to change the revoil spring just to suit one very occasional use round.

I'll update as needed.

Robert

[Mr_Sheesh]

My first guess would be that more powder is needed, but it's hard to say without pictures. I've been making these for years (since ~ the 1980s) and too much powder can cause the case mouth to stick to the rifling, but some light rifling imprinting on the mouth is normal, and springback usually makes them release nicely; Not enough powder, of course, results in FTEs from insufficient recoil. They should feel VERY low recoil compared to regular loads, that's normal for these.

It might take over .2 gr more powder to get them to eject, try it and see which option (+ or -) does better at ejecting.

Been told that 5 of these in the magazine is the upper limit for them to feed properly, never tried more.

Also any brass that has a neck crack but uses the same base diameter can be repurposed to these, so long as case head separation isn't an issue.

[Mk42gunner]

Mr Sheesh, you may be right.

5.8 grains didn't work. Then I realized that the empties barely cleared the ejection port. So I measured the cases, oops they are 1.220-1.230" long.

Broke out the case trimmer and trimmed a few to 1.180" and loaded them with 6.0 grains, still no joy. Will try 6.2 tomorrow. I will say the did eject easier when I manually operated the slide.

Robert

[jim147]

Any update on this? I make the bee loads for my .45 Colt. Would be interested to see if these would function in my combat camander.

I might have to dig in my cases and see what I have.

[Mk42gunner]

Yeah, they still don't cycle. I'm thinking maybe the SIG brass is the problem, It sure seems to expand a lot anyway.

When it warms back up I'll try again. Too cold to go digging in the barn for different brass.

If I can get them to cycle I'll get some to you to try in your Commander.

Robert

[Mr_Sheesh]

Try milsurp brass, I've made all of mine using that with no issues; It will only load so many times, with flaring / roll crimping, but it is cheap and does the job.

[dbosman]

For my S&W AutoRim, using commercial, .308 brass, I can make cylinder length (minus 1mm) shot shells.


While I have loaded for shot loads for 38/357's, I've yet to load any for my 45 Autos. I also have two 45 Auto revolvers.
Murphy

[Murphy]

For my S&W AutoRim, using commercial, .308 brass, I can make cylinder length (minus 1mm) shot shells.

That, is something I have considered thinking it may be the best yet. More payload per shot. I'm not looking to make a mini-.410 out of it, but used my imagination a bit and that crossed my mind. How do you accomplish it?

Murphy

[Boogieman]

You might try a slower powder. I load the same as You but use Unique about 5gr. It functions both my Colts, a 1991A1 and an O.M. Good patterns with #9 shot

[Boogieman]

Made some out of 303 British for my 44spl. cut off cylinder length they were very hard to eject

[jim147]

You might try a slower powder. I load the same as You but use Unique about 5gr. It functions both my Colts, a 1991A1 and an O.M. Good patterns with #9 shot

Nice info. I think I still have plenty of Unique around here. It's almost warm enough to fix th flue on my woodstove and the get the shop back up and going. Next is I know I have 4,6 and 8 shot but don't know if I have smaller. That a whole other building to dig in.

[Alferd Packer]

I have been making them using military. 308 using the Rcbs die set for many years.
They always cycle for me in the 1911 pistol and I have used 30 06 cases to make them for shooting the Ruger .45 acp cylinder in blackhawk single action.
You just can't expect a decent pattern without a shot wad to enclose the shot thru the barrel.
They will blow thru there with just a gas check top and bottom but only make hits at such close range as you could kill a snake with a long handled hoe or shovel.
Just a big waste of shot.
These loads with a wad only need a small amount of shot and put it all on target.
Other wise, you may as well just use the old 20 or 16 or 12 gauge shotgun.
I got a 25 pounder of 12 size shot back when it was available and I have plenty left.
Use no 9 if that's all you have.
I helped others load shot and many times they reuse the old aluminum cases that held shot before and they fail to resize the case.
Then malfunctions happen!
And I can't believe loaders who want to crimp the case like the factory.
That ruins the case!
Always use a shot sleeve to enclose the shot
Any other way is a waste of good shot in a rifled barrel IMHO.
Good Luck!.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Far more convenient to carry a handgun all day than a long gun, which is why we make these shot shells :)

[M99SavNut]

I have some of these shotshells I got from someplace no longer remembered, and want to make some of these for myself; I do some work in rattlesnake country from time to time. The ones I have are necked down and crimped closed with a gas check - don't know what's under the shot to separate it from the powder. I figure these are custom dies, and if so, are they still available? If there is an RCBS part # and/or other info on that subject, I'd appreciate hearing about that.
Thanx.

[jmorris]

It took 6.0 gn of 231 to get mine to run. I use 308/243 brass and cut down .410 wads.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?235886-Homemade-45-acp-shotshell-die&highlight=45+shot

They function like regular ammunition.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2EkrQwE6og

[Mk42gunner]

I have some of these shotshells I got from someplace no longer remembered, and want to make some of these for myself; I do some work in rattlesnake country from time to time. The ones I have are necked down and crimped closed with a gas check - don't know what's under the shot to separate it from the powder. I figure these are custom dies, and if so, are they still available? If there is an RCBS part # and/or other info on that subject, I'd appreciate hearing about that.
Thanx.

RCBS used to make them, but I don't think they do any more. They were expensive, I bought mine at an estate auction.

I have also made them with a combination of dies to fit what I had on hand.

I found a place online that showed how to make a set of .45 shotshell dies on a lathe, with required drill dimensions, but that was a few computers ago.

6.0-6.2 grains of 231 seems to be the most recommended load. I like #12 shot for snakes. I have used various things to close the front of the case, ranging from .35 or .375 cal gas checks to 3/8" wads cut with a hollow punch.

Robert

[Mr_Sheesh]

http://www.avr-developers.com/45shotshell/45_shot_cartridges.pdf

https://www.ammochannel.com/45-acp-shotshells-handloaded/

[crandall crank]

On the link http://www.avr-developers.com/45shotshell/45_shot_cartridges.pdf does anyone know the angle on the shoulder where it transitions from 12mm diameter to 11mm? If not the angle, what about the length of the neck that is actually 11mm.

I have a tool & die maker interested and he will need these dimensions before he'll chuck anything up in the lathe.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I have some loaded shells from the RCBS die set, would good photos of those help them see what is needed?

Basically you are headspacing on that shoulder, so it is pretty sharp IIRC. I'll have to find the one shell, it's not where I thought it was right now.

I could maybe size a 308 casing and send that to you, unprimed so it would be easy to mail? Or someone else could if they have no mobility issues so they could get it mailed easier :)

[Mk42gunner]

I'll try to check dimensions tonight when I get home.

As far as the angle goes for the home made forming die; when I was contemplating making one, I figured the angle of the drill would be close enough. Most of those are 118 degrees, fireforming will take care of the rest.

Robert

[Mk42gunner]

I finally measured the form die, then forgot the paper I wrote the dimensions on:oops:.

Length of die: 1.075"

Depth to bottom of shell holder: 1.200"

I could not get a measurement of the shoulder forming angle, but it should be the length of a .45 ACP case from the bottom of the shell holder.

To use a die this short, you will need an extended shell holder that will fit inside the 7/8x14 threaded hole in a press. Mine is an RCBS #3.

This form die makes cases that will eventually work, but they needed a bit more trimming to clear the ejection port on my Kimber 1911.

Hope this helps,

Robert