Casting RB Versus Buying RB

[Prairie Cowboy]

Just for fun I did the arithmetic on the difference between buying Hornaday .454" round balls and buying pure lead and casting your own.

I think that we all know that the home cast balls are cheaper, but how much cheaper? I went with what is probably the most expensive route, which is buying a roll of pure lead from a local roofing company.

Converting into U.S dollars, an 11 pound roll (Why 11 pounds? Who knows.) costs about $40.00 USD here, or about $3.64 a pound. It might be cheaper where you are.

.454" lead balls from U.S. Cabelas cost $18.00 per 100 + tax, or 18 cents each. They each weigh 142 grains.

11 pounds of roofing lead casts about 540 of the .454" balls.
(11 x 7000 grains per pound. 77000 grains divided by 142 = 542 balls.)
($40.00 divided by 542 = a bit more than 7 cents each.)

If you can buy old roofing lead from roofers looking for beer money, the cost is less, even with the amount of impurities that you need to skim off.

Food for thought.

[Black Powder Bill]

Just for fun I did the arithmetic on the difference between buying Hornaday .454" round balls and buying pure lead and casting your own.

I think that we all know that the home cast balls are cheaper, but how much cheaper? I went with what is probably the most expensive route, which is buying a roll of pure lead from a local roofing company.

Converting into U.S dollars, an 11 pound roll (Why 11 pounds? Who knows.) costs about $40.00 USD here, or about $3.64 a pound. It might be cheaper where you are.

.454" lead balls from U.S. Cabelas cost $18.00 per 100 + tax, or 18 cents each. They each weigh 142 grains.

11 pounds of roofing lead casts about 540 of the .454" balls.
(11 x 7000 grains per pound. 77000 grains divided by 142 = 542 balls.)
($40.00 divided by 542 = a bit more than 7 cents each.)

If you can buy old roofing lead from roofers looking for beer money, the cost is less, even with the amount of impurities that you need to skim off.

Food for thought.And you forgot the melting pot,mould,fuel,stick to beat mould open, your time.

I tell customers , if you're not shooting a 1000 rb a year it isn't worth it unless the lead is free.

Rarely do people shoot more than that in ten years.

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[megasupermagnum]

There is another cost, and that is accuracy. In my muzzleloaders, a cast ball always shoots better than the Hornady swaged. I'm not sure it matters as much in a cap and ball, but it might. I also would never pay almost $4 a pound for lead, that's nuts! Soft lead like stick on wheel weights, old pipe lead, and roof flashing are not that hard to find free. It's the harder lead that is not free anymore. Even then, I've never paid over $1 a pound for fully processed ingots.

The cost in dollars is practically nothing, the time is the real investment. With a Lee 6 cavity mold, I can cast a years supply for one caliber in an afternoon.

[Prairie Cowboy]

And you forgot the melting pot,mould,fuel,stick to beat mould open, your time.

I tell customers , if you're not shooting a 1000 rb a year it isn't worth it unless the lead is free.

Rarely do people shoot more than that in ten years.

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- A 10 pound cast iron pot and egg ladle is very cheap. Mine still serves me after 40 years.

- A Lee round ball mold costs $26.00 and will last for many years.

- A stick will cost you nothing if you scrounge around the house, as will an old soup spoon, and an old candle to flux and skim the molten lead.

- The fuel depends on your heat source, but it won't cost much.

- If you don't have time to devote to a casting session once in a while, then maybe muzzleloader shooting just isn't for you. For many people, one afternoon a year would yield over 500 balls.

But, perhaps muzzle loading is so slow that perhaps you just don't have time for that either. :mrgreen:

So, you can tell your customers whatever you like. But unless you only go through a box or two of lead balls a year, it IS worth it, at 1/3 of the cost of Hornaday balls.

Mind you, gun shops won't make any money selling balls if you do cast. :wink:

[Caswell Ranch]

If you look around Midway had them for $9:95 per 100 ball box for both Hornady and Speer. Wholesalehunter.com again around $10/$12. For small cal rifle and revolver it's almost not worth the time, unless someone likes casting, the real benefit comes when you load large ball .530 and up, conicals, Minie ball or odd sizes.

The following is priced today,
Pure 99.9 cert Lead pig from Rotometals 60lbs for $109 includes shipping ($1.81 pound), Small (4lb pot) furnace from Lee on Amazon shipped $31.00, Lee Pro-4 20lb pot around $60.00 (ladle use optional), Lyman casting ladle is around $26.00 or RCBS as the small Lee one is not worth getting, stainless spoon from the kitchen for skimming $0 unless the wife catches on .

[Hellgate]

So far, I have put over 30,000 .454 roundballs down range. You don't need dead soft pure lead unless you are casting hollow based minie balls otherwise the lead just needs to be "soft enough". Common sources for the lead scrounger are garage sales and scrap yards. Electrical company employees find cable sheathing all the time. Any sheet lead I've founds has been soft enough. Another source is when a medical office is being torn down or they are replacing their xray machine: the walls may be lead lined in radiation treatment areas, the xrays have large 10-20 lb counterweights for the xray head. Decorative glass studios usually have a bucket of trimmed kame that is soft enough and they are often glad to have someone take it away as it is sometimes looked at as hazardous.

Lead hardness test with art pencils.....
I think I got this info off the black powder or mlml list 20+ years ago:
You can go to an art supply store and get a set or select individual pencils
whose core varies from [softest] 9B,>>>1B, HB, F, 1H, >>>9H[hardest]. Lead
will run about 4B or 5B, depending on purity, and linotype will run about HB,
or F. The hardest pencils will test aluminum alloys and are too hard for
lead. About 6 to 8 pencils will cover the range needed for informal casting.
To use, shave the wood away to expose the "lead" core without cutting into it
with the knife exposing 1/8-1/4". Hold the pencil vertical and sand the end
flat on fine (about) 400 grit sandpaper. Hold the pencil in a normal writing
position, and try to push the lower edge into the lead surface. If the
graphite core is harder than the alloy, it will cut into the metal or at
least seriously scratch it. If the metal is as hard or harder than the
graphite core, it will not be able to gouge. The hardness is ranked as the
hardest graphite core that will NOT cut in. If your bullet is resistant to
pencils from 6B through 2B, but B scratches it or peels up a small shaving,
the hardness is 2B.
This isn't as exact as a Brinnel tester but cost effective enough for me. You
can reproduce your hardness but not necessarily the same cost, or castability
but all I want to know is whether it is REAL HARD, sorta hard, somewhere in
between, soft, and REAL SOFT (i.e. Smokeless rifle lead, smokeless pistol, 38
special lead, and 2 grades of black powder lead). I bought 8 pencils: H, HB,
B, 2B, 3B, 4B, 5B, & 6B. I found that my various ingots of lead were not
sorted so well once I pencil tested them. Wheelweights and MY BLEND of #2
alloy are about 2B and my soft cap&ball lead is 4B&5B. Be sure to use a fresh
surface as some of the heavier grey corrosion will resist the pencil core but
the underlying lead will scratch.

[bimus]

I Buy 454 round ball for cap and ball revolvers because the lead I get is to hard and pushes in harder then store bought round ball that is softer .

[Black Powder Bill]

You can't quote cost and tools scrounged what cost were 40 years ago!

That like the guys who balk at 16$ pound Goex telling me the last time they bought powder it was 7$ a pound. SMH.

Yet they can't remember from who or when.

I also sell lead -pots-moulds.ect...

I cast my first round ball 50 years ago.

My cost for all my reloading supplies is way below average. This is due to the fact most was given to me or purchased cheap.

Customers ask me to come over when I start casting. No one has ever made it over after I call them to set a time.

True the gun shop doesn't make $$$ if they don't sell rb. How ever the 3-6$ per box I make is far less than the $$$ made off the sale of a pot & supplies.

The money is in buying back then reselling equipment sold from the guys who were never gonna purchase another Hornady round ball.

Don't tell guys what your set up cost 4 decades ago. Tell them to do the math at today's cost.







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[Prairie Cowboy]

The prices that I did quote are current prices, not 40 year old prices. I don't know why anyone would assume they were not. :confused:

Investigate it for yourself. The one-time investment in a pot and ladle and a Lee aluminum mold or two is peanuts compared to many other items that we shooters invest in.

Like I said, even if you go the most expensive route and buy rolls of roofing lead, and cast your own, it's still cheaper than buying the Hornaday round balls most places.

And "Cast Boolits" is, after all a forum dedicated to shooting cast bullets, first and foremost.

Also, a simple bullet casting set-up permits you to create projectiles that you may not be able to find commercially anywhere else.
And, in the diameter that you want.
At a minimal investment as well.

[waksupi]

Time investment? Heck, I kind of enjoy casting bullets or ball, so it doesn't bother me to spend the time. It's all part of the fun.

[Caswell Ranch]

Prairie Cowboy,
As I posted above the price from Midway is $9.99 for 100 box by Speer, Hornady are back up to $16 per box. Buy Speer at that price, shipping is free on orders over $49. On your post above #4 you note "So, you can tell your customers whatever you like. But unless you only go through a box or two of lead balls a year, it IS worth it, at 1/3 of the cost of Hornaday balls." many people do not shoot 100 to 200 round ball per year, many would not sit over a cast iron skillet to cast, again as posted above casting small round ball with a single or double cavity mold is time consuming (get to temp,throw the first 6 drops back in) and for the most part is not worth it (to me), casting .530 and up that is worth it, casting Minie, conical, odd sizes and obsolete, that is worth it.
Yes this is a forum related to cast bullets but even if I buy them they are cast or swaged at some point ;) .

I get the point you are trying to make but I feel it would have been better to make a list of what somebody new to casting will need to start along with a cost break down, options available and how and where to get them.

[wyofool]

Time investment? Heck, I kind of enjoy casting bullets or ball, so it doesn't bother me to spend the time. It's all part of the fun.

What he said!!^^^^^
I cast because I can and enjoy it, not so much for cost. But in todays environment I can go out and shoot all day without worrying about not having something that is short supply. Heck I even will make my own caps if necessary, not necessary right now but could be soon.

[Walks]

I cast RB, simply because I always have. In the early 1960's there wasn't a choice. Casting a 1cav RB over a Coleman stove for My Dad's old Colt Navy was how I got started casting.
Since I cast Minie's & Maxi's, why not. The price saving on those is incredible.
And I got the molds anyway.

[RU shooter]

Store bought ball would just confuse me ! Wouldn't know which side of the ball to face straight up on the patch since there ain't no sprue flat spot .:veryconfu

[Edward]

And you forgot the melting pot,mould,fuel,stick to beat mould open, your time.

I tell customers , if you're not shooting a 1000 rb a year it isn't worth it unless the lead is free.

Rarely do people shoot more than that in ten years.

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Concerning counting RB "s shot ,you have (lead) a sheltered life and if you need to get paid for castin (A fun part of shooting) perhaps you could take up soccer/golfing . And not for nothing the making of yur own balls is a( PRICELESS ART)and worth a lot to those that learn to do it better than store bought ! Yup I make my own arrows/strings fishing lures and roll my own centerfire and never consider price getting the education (a lost art) in todays indocrination (not education) at a cost that never matters ! Getting involved in casting makes you a better shooter cause every so often it does get to cold ,yesterday 27 LBS conicals and then figured I grabbed the wrong mold so fixed that by doing it again today with the right mold .It does calm down the locked in the house attitude and gets you out and useful except when you get back inside and respond to this thread /Ed

[Black Powder Bill]

Edward,

SMH.

I don't charge for guys who want to stop in and cast with me. I never said nor insinuate that.

Your opinions are of no value to the discussion. Except to poke me cause you can from your key board.

You guys here, some of you need to step into reality and look at the avg shooters time vs cost.

An avg. guy who works 60-70 hours a week will not spend a hours looking for lead and tools to cast.
He wants to shoot in his off time.

I don't watch any kind of ball games [emoji16] haven't since they went on strike back in the 80's.

No one is forced to make a purchase or stop by to see the casting or reloading process at my place.
I offer to them to stop by when they ask about reloading. They have already spent hours on the internet pricing and watching videos.

I give them prices and advice. Then tell them any questions call me.

I didn't start casting or reloading to save money. I started so I would never run out of shooting. [emoji2]










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[Hanshi]

I cast everything I shoot except for shot. It's cheap compared with store bought. Sometimes certain calibers are tough to find so it's cast or do without.

[mooman76]

I don't know why we are even arguing about it here. It's a matter of time vs money. If you have more money than time, buy it, if you have more time than money ore just do it because you enjoy it, then cast Simple as that. I enjoy casting myself. Been doing it for almost 50 years. I get kind of a zin thing going.

[LAGS]

Be aware , Casting is Addictive.
I started out casting Fishing Weights.
Then on to RBs for a Muzzleloader.
Then it was Pistol Bullets.
Then Rifle Bullets.
I have always had more Time than Money.
But now that I have retired , the two items have caught up to each other.
But now it is a great Hobby to use up all this Extra Time I retired with.
But as far as the cost goes,
I have been lucky that I have been able to scrounge up material for Free.
So , New Molds is my only real Cost.
Boy, I think I have aquired too many molds over the years, and guns that go with them.

[rodwha]

I got in to casting because the only bullet that was somewhat what I was looking for were only cast and sold by Kaido, and only when he had them available. Initially they were $40/100 + shipping (later it was $50/100). I bought a lot of scrap lead at $1/pound and if I ran out of bullets I could have plenty by the next day. I was at no one’s mercy and I wasn’t being charged such a high price, and I went to Accurate Molds and had made exactly what I wanted. Of course ball and other molds starting coming home...

[cas]

I'm sort of an odd duck on this forum, I hate casting bullets! :D
So I buy my round balls, even though lately I've thought about casting. But I choose to save my lead and casting time for things I almost have to cast for. Odd stuff... calibers, sizes, weights, things that you just can't buy or are cost prohibitive.

Though casting .58 mini balls was what got me started 30 years ago.

[brewer12345]

I started casting so I never run out of projectiles. I like doing stuff myself as well. I find casting to be fun and the economics for stuff like conicals is great. Round balls is decent, ditto cartridge bullets. If someone else does not want to cast it is no skin off my nose.

Last summer I shot hundreds of round balls in 50, 54 and 58. I need to cast some more 58s soon, and I think the ammo can of 50 balls is maybe a third full, so could stand to bang out a bunch of those. I probably shoot more 50 than anything else simply because I got my hands on a Lyman 4 banger mold that is extremely well broken in and just rains balls. Keep meaning to figure out if Lyman ever made a 4 banger in .530.

[charlie b]

While I have a bullet mold for my Lyman ML, I rarely use it. The few times I shoot it I just buy some Hornady Great Plains bullets.

PS I do cast a lot of bullets. 210gn .30 cal bullets for my .308win bolt rifle.

[Edward]

Edward,

SMH.

I don't charge for guys who want to stop in and cast with me. I never said nor insinuate that.

Your opinions are of no value to the discussion. Except to poke me cause you can from your key board.

You guys here, some of you need to step into reality and look at the avg shooters time vs cost.

An avg. guy who works 60-70 hours a week will not spend a hours looking for lead and tools to cast.
He wants to shoot in his off time.

I don't watch any kind of ball games [emoji16] haven't since they went on strike back in the 80's.

No one is forced to make a purchase or stop by to see the casting or reloading process at my place.
I offer to them to stop by when they ask about reloading. They have already spent hours on the internet pricing and watching videos.

I give them prices and advice. Then tell them any questions call me.

I didn't start casting or reloading to save money. I started so I would never run out of shooting. [emoji2]










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My opinion is worth as much as the next guys and it cost you nothing . I cast a lot yesterday 21lbs of 452 TC and (44 mag mistake ) grabbed the wrong mold 20 degrees in garage/ 4AM and got the right one and 9Lbs more . close to 30 lbs and I will do more the end of week as 6 bangers go quik ! I am not average nor are the guys I shoot with but we all like to shoot short 200/long 800 but after hunting season it is a sport we appreciate . I don"t know you and don "t care to but I think you need to get out more often . I Like casting and would not be shooting if not for reloading and do not need lectures from you about casting /shooting/reality /ect cause you seem to be lacking experience in all 3/Ed

[Prairie Cowboy]

I find it a bit sad that on a bullet casting forum, and especially with regard to traditional muzzle loading, that so many are indifferent to the simple process of pouring their own lead balls.

As a cash-strapped 18 year old with my first black powder gun (an Italian replica .44 C+B Remington revolver) back in the 1970s, I had no choice but to cast my own .451" round balls. Nobody was selling round balls back then, and I wouldn't have missed out on the fun of casting my own if they were.

For the price of a 10# iron pot and a Lyman egg ladle, and a bullet mold, I was in business. I still have all of these today. That 50 year old Lyman mold is like new after thousands of cast balls, and will never wear out. A heck of a good investment. The Lee aluminum ones are much cheaper and will probably last a good long time. I own several.

With my trusty Coleman camp stove, a stick and a spoon, and a towel to catch my cast bullets and balls, I made huge quantities from lead salvaged for free from my high school basement .22 range.

Today you will likely have to buy soft lead, but what you cast is still cheaper than the commercial round balls from Hornaday and Speer. I notice that Speer is cheaper, at 10 cents per .454" round ball, with Hornaday costing .16 cents, at Midway.

The Speer balls are a good price. Unfortunately, most Speer and Hornaday lead round balls are out of stock at Midway, like most of their ammo and reloading components. It's the Covid-19 world that we live in. So if you want lead round balls to shoot you will have to cast your own or scrounge to find anything, or not shoot at all.

BBB tells us that the average guy works 60 or 70 hours a week. Average? Uhhh...No.
Most of us still work a 40 hour week. Some a few hours more. Some do work longer, but not most. Many of us are retired and have ample time to do whatever we like.

In any case, I will never run out of lead balls or bullets. I will never curse because everything is out of stock due to hoarding. A few casting sessions a year will keep me amply supplied.

But if you shoot very little then just buy lead balls, if you can find any.

[indian joe]

I shoot some of both - cast the stuff I use the most of - buy some other - but the buy stuff is getting more difficult and more expensive, we pay over $30 a hundred now for swaged roundball but can buy ingot lead for around $6 a kilo - a LEE 2 holer is over $50. Self sufficiency is more critical to Aussies too I think and that wasnt part of the original argument - time for a couple more molds!!

[GregLaROCHE]

When I asked a friend how much he paid for his round balls, I did some rough mental math and thought that was really cheap. I have free lead (range scrap) and most of all enjoy casting, so I’ll stick with it. However, if someone says it makes more sense for them to buy them, I wouldn’t argue with them.

[Edward]

When I asked a friend how much he paid for his round balls, I did some rough mental math and thought that was really cheap. I have free lead (range scrap) and most of all enjoy casting, so I’ll stick with it. However, if someone says it makes more sense for them to buy them, I wouldn’t argue with them.

Me neither cause molds /lead keeps going up with demand and all those noobies will make it worse ,or maybe we need the noobies to survive the progressive wing nuts ? :dung_hits_fan:

[Maven]

Why I cast my own RB's? (1) I enjoy it; (2) I cast for 6 different calibers of ML's; (3) I have enough Pb for the near term; (4) Almost all of my equipment has paid for itself over the years; (6) There are no local stores that are remotely familiar with muzzleloading items, thus I would have to rely on expensive mail order (postage); and (7) I find my home cast and weighed RB's are more accurate than the store bought ones. E.g., several years ago, I was given several boxes of Speer .451" and .457" RB's. When I tried them in my Rem. NMA and Ruger OA revolvers, I noticed a significant loss of accuracy compared to the RB's I cast and typically used. After remelting the Speers, and returning to cast RB's, things went back to where they were; i.e., better in the Ruger OA, than the Rem. NMA, but nonetheless an improvement in both.

[dondiego]

Maven - What do you feel is the cause of the cast RB's shooting better than the swaged RB's? I have heard this statement on here more than once.

[Soundguy]

I cast my own .451, .454 as well as 36 cal and 69 cal balls.

WAY cheaper than buying commercial.