Cutting teeth, need help

[rtyler8140]

So, I'd like to cut my teeth into the mil surplus bolt action world but can decide where to start. I'm on a pretty limited budget, so I've been looking at either a 6.5 Carcano or a 7x57 mauser. I can get a 6.5 online for sub $300 including ffl & shipping. Have a hard time with not being able to inspect the rifle before buying it. There is a local shop that has a Brazilian Mauser for $500 that seems to be in pretty decent shape. I like the fact that I could make brass for the 7x57 by using 270 or 30-06. 6.5x52 doesn't seem to have that option. Also it seems Lee makes a 7mm mold, but nothing for 6.5mm. I plan on hitting some local pawn shops to see if by chance there is anything out there. Any recommendations or insight to push me in a good direction for what rifle would be best to start with would be much appreciated! As far as my intentions with the rifle, it would be a for plinking and maybe deer hunting if I developed a load I felt confident in. Thanks in advance for the insight!

[Bloodman14]

I would recommend the Mauser; lots of brass, aftermarket goodies to 'personalize' it, molds and dies, and a lot of knowledge here. I understand that the Brazilian's are good quality, too.

[rtyler8140]

I would recommend the Mauser; lots of brass, aftermarket goodies to 'personalize' it, molds and dies, and a lot of knowledge here. I understand that the Brazilian's are good quality, too.

Is $500 a reasonable price? Not familiar with the market on these, and this particular shop can be hit or miss on their pricing.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Some thoughts-- between the two you've mentioned I'd definitely consider the Mauser. Unless you become an accomplished reloader you'll always have trouble (and expense) finding 6 .5mm Carcano ammo.

Specifically about the Brazilian Mauser, they were used in a humid tropical climate and often have serious rust below the woodline, so that's something to check for. Also, check the bore, as many became rusty and pitted. The 7mm Mauser cartridge is one of the world's all time greats, and if that was the only cartridge you could have you'd be well off.

As for your question about price-- things are kind of crazy right now. Used to be, $500 would have been high for a Brazilian Mauser, and one would expect something in truly excellent condition for that price. Today, I'm seeing the average military surplus rifle in very good - excellent condition selling in the $700-$900 price range.

Pawn shops are a good place to look, but their asking price is usually too high. Fortunately, many of them will dicker down to something about reasonable. On my last trip to my local (?) 35 mile-distant pawn shop I noted that they had 5 No.4 Mk.1 rifles that had all been "sporterized" by cutting back their forestocks. The barrels were uncut, so they could be restored to "as-issued", but the forestock is often the most difficult and expensive part to get, just because so many have been destroyed by sporterizing.
But, when considering military surplus rifles, the No.4 Mk. 1 Lee Enfields are a good one to consider.

You'll find that the classic American military surplus rifles, like the Springfield '03 and '03-A3 and Model 1917 Enfields are way, way up in price, some approaching $2,000 and average specimens usually over $1,200. The question arises, do you plan to keep and use your acquisition in "as-issued" condition, or to sporterize it? If you're going to cut it down anyway, then there are many on the market already cut down at more reasonable prices.


DG

[junkbug]

I am partial to the Carcano and really like them. With what you have left over, you can buy brass, a few clips, and a nice 6.5mm mold from NOE. Regardless you will need a set of dies.

There is however, nothing wrong with a 7x57 Brazilian. What model? Condition is everything. In these times, $500 for one is not out of line.

[rtyler8140]

I plan on doing all the casting & loading for whichever one I get. From what I understand a lot of the 6.5s slug around .268 whereas commerical ammo is typically .264, hence the poor accuracy reports they sometimes get. I do like the looks of the 6.5 carbines and the clips are kinda nifty. My plan would be to keep it as original and not sporterize at this point. They local shop did have an 03 on consignment for $2,200. I'll have to run back over there this week and take a closer look at the mauser to see what the bore looks like as well as the model. Before going there I had really only done research on the carcano, so I've been learning more about the mauser and can give it a closer look.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Another rifle to consider is a Swiss K-11 or 96/11, usually around $500 or maybe a bit less, and most have really good bores. Brass is getting harder to find though, but more selection of moulds, and they are very good shooters.

[samari46]

Royal Tiger Imports brought in a boatload of rifles from Ethiopia within the last few months and Carcanos,British Enfields,Mausers and who knows what else. But from what I've read the condition of what they have depends on how much you are willing to spend. Most likely the above rifles have been in that country since WWII. And somewhat less than stellar in dealing with folks who bought from them. Better shop local at least you can see what you are getting. I'd be looking a a nice Mauser in 7mm as you can easily make brass from 30-06 and 270. Best wishes regardless what you get. Frank

[rtyler8140]

I am partial to the Carcano and really like them. With what you have left over, you can buy brass, a few clips, and a nice 6.5mm mold from NOE. Regardless you will need a set of dies.

There is however, nothing wrong with a 7x57 Brazilian. What model? Condition is everything. In these times, $500 for one is not out of line.

My biggest concern with buying any used military surplus online is not knowing the true condition. Pictures can be deceiving. Went back to the shop today and it is a 1908 Brazilian Mauser, all numbers match except the bolt. Rifling looked good but there was some gunk in the bore. I assume this is some sort of lube or something they put in there to protect it for storage? I asked if he would take $450 cash, said best he could do was $485. I figure I'll look around a little more and see what is out there. Called a local pawn shop to see if they had anything. Guy said they had a Swiss 41 for $450. I assume it's a Vetterli. Seem like pretty nifty rifles once converted to center fire.

[Baltimoreed]

I don’t know anything about the foreign milsurps only owning 3 US krags and two 1903s but a suggestion, do your homework before you buy if at all possible. My first Krag wasn’t what I thought that it was and I was disappointed. Reference books are cheaper than a rifle that isn’t what you were looking for. See what you can find and handle as many as you can to get a feel for what you like or don’t like. Are there any gun clubs around you that hold BAMM shoots, Bolt Action Military Match. Would be tied to a SASS club but not necessarily. Would give you an opportunity to see and possibly shoot a milsurp or two if you haven’t. Do you ever get down to the Outer Banks of NC? We do BAM matches a couple times a year. Send me a message. Good luck.

[bkbville]

IMHO - having the bolt match is the most important. Sure, it's nice to have an all matching, but the one that can impact safety (headspace) is the bolt.

I like the 7mm Mausers, but agree about concerns on rust - insist on an inspection period, or better, taking it down - you want to see under the wood. Also - these are cock on close which may give the impression of being stiff.

I have found Carcano's frustrating with cast - esp gain-twist models (of course I started with a Vetterli). I do like them, and have a couple, but none ever brought the joy, say, of shooting a K31.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My choice would be an ex-mil M17, great calibre and a very competitive competition rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/Lkp2rnA.png

[ukrifleman]

My choice would be an ex-mil M17, great calibre and a very competitive competition rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/Lkp2rnA.png

I would agree, particularly as the OP is in the US where there is no shortage of 30-06 ammo and components.
Or, a P14 as shown at the bottom in the display.

ukrifleman

[fgd135]

As someone else mentioned, condition is everything. Use that alone to determine what you buy as a new collector. Other related items will fall into place, i.e. reloading, accessories, etc.

[mf79]

these days I would check price and availability of ammo for it first.

[charlie b]

I would favor a 7x57 over anything except maybe the 6.5x55. .30-06 would be next on the list.

But, surplus it is all about condition. I'd not buy one online unless you are willing to toss the dice or have an independent party inspect and document the piece. It could be a real gem or a sewer pipe.

[30calflash]

I'd check the none of the above box. Especially for your first try. Simple reasoning the 7x57's have a lot of dimensional issues and condition is a big question on these. Most are in tough shape. What others said on the Carcano.

If you wish to load cast and have a fair chance of success I'd opt for something in 30 cal, 30-06, 303, 7.62x54R or 7.65 Arg Mauser. I've loaded cast for all but the 303 and it doesn't take much to get decent results, with a decent rifle. 7.65 Arg brass can be made from 270 or 30-06 easy enough. Many competitive priced molds and loading tools for the prior chamberings. Lots of good load info available.

Just my $.02.

[rtyler8140]

I'd check the none of the above box. Especially for your first try. Simple reasoning the 7x57's have a lot of dimensional issues and condition is a big question on these. Most are in tough shape. What others said on the Carcano.

If you wish to load cast and have a fair chance of success I'd opt for something in 30 cal, 30-06, 303, 7.62x54R or 7.65 Arg Mauser. I've loaded cast for all but the 303 and it doesn't take much to get decent results, with a decent rifle. 7.65 Arg brass can be made from 270 or 30-06 easy enough. Many competitive priced molds and loading tools for the prior chamberings. Lots of good load info available.

Just my $.02.

So I found a pretty good deal on a local gun. It is a sporterized Mosin Nagant. Barrel has been shortened & re-crowned by a gunsmith. It has an archangel stock and rail for a scope mount. Although I was looking to go more traditional vs sporterized, I think I need to step back and really learn a lot more before being able to be comfortable making a purchase on something like a brazillian mauser or carcano. With the market being inflated right now, probably not the best time to take an uneducated guess at something. Thanks for all the insight you guys have provided thus far, it really has been a great help and very educational.

[Baltimoreed]

That changes everything then. If you just want a bubba special to play with then the only things you need to be concerned with are the bore, crown, trigger and bolts headspace. What 30cal said. Stay away from hard to find brass and calibers. Brass that can be formed by using a common caliber is much more desirable. Good luck.

[samari46]

I love mil surps and have squinted down more barrels than I can count. First thing I check is the barrel if it is within my standards for cast bullets. Then start checking the rest of it out. Condition,condition and matching numbers. Most of what I have was bought years back and for considerably less than what they would sell for today. So at this point check the barrel first then the rest of your rifle. The Archangel stock is a plus as most likely you'll be able to mount a scope if drilled and tapped for it. Have fun. Frank

[rtyler8140]

So I ended up getting a bubba'd mosin nagant from a buddy for $200 with 100 rds of ammo which left me a little play room in my budget. Based on this, I decided to take a gamble with Bud's Guns and order a Carcano M91 TS. Hopefully it will ship later this week or early next week. Looking forward to getting my hands on it and getting it all cleaned up. I'll post some picture when it comes in & I'm sure I will have some questions!

[rtyler8140]

I got the Carcano today. The wood is a little beat up. The bolt and action seem nice. The bore does have some rust in it. I made an electronic bore cleaner, so I ran that for about an hour after cleaning the casmoline out. Was still pretty dirty so I have it filled with evaporust right now. I did a little work to clean the stock. Once it dries out a bit, I will lightly and it and put some finish on it. Looking forward to getting it cleaned up and taking it to the range.

https://i.ibb.co/R9r8vWp/IMG-20210205-144840536.jpg (https://ibb.co/R9r8vWp) https://i.ibb.co/d7TJqnf/IMG-20210205-183318551.jpg (https://ibb.co/d7TJqnf) https://i.ibb.co/W58zXsj/IMG-20210205-181810583.jpg (https://ibb.co/W58zXsj)

[pan957]

I would steer away from RTI, lots of negative reviews on the guns and poor customer service.