50-70 Brass

[WinchesterColt]

Hi! I'm the *** here! Hello!

I'm pretty new to guns in general though I've had them over the years. I even put together a BP pistol kit in the early 80s, but never got a chance to shoot it - neighbor kids stole it. Earlier this year I found an 1851 Pietta Navy at the pawn shop and couldn't resist the brass frame, trigger guard and backstrap. And then a .50 TC Hawkins showed up at another pawn shop for $175 and again, I couldn't pass up all that pretty brass hardware. It was a kit and several things needed cleaning up, so now all that's left is taking it all apart and finishing the stock properly.

Anyway, I've now launched into early cartridge guns with a Pedersolli Remington rolling block in 50 caliber. Unfortunately, the brass isn't readily available currently. I've read good things about Starline but they're not currently available. A batch of 50 just sold on Guntrader for
$130. Who knows when Starline will produce more? Almost three bucks a case seems a bit much to me.

I have heard that it's possible to repurpose brass for this gun. But no idea what that might be. Hopefully you guys can help me out. It would be nice if I could alter some other cheaper and more available brass for this purpose.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[cwtebay]

It can be made from 50-110, 50-90, 348wcf, etc. But the cost won't be much less. The brass will last forever in that gun providing it's not being hot rodded. Fire an email to starline, they generally begin production when they get enough interest - perhaps your email will be the tipping point!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[pworley1]

All the brass that I can think of to make it from cost more than it does.

[Winger Ed.]

Dixie gun Works has the basic 3 1/4" .50 Sharps cases that are made to be cut down to fit the .50-140, .50-90, and .50-70 govt.

They're crazy expensive, but they have 'em in stock.
A box of 20 is only $76.

[pacomdiver]

call these guys, thats where i got the 50-70 brass for my F I L, think it was 1.50 a case (they were starline)

https://www.dixonmuzzleloading.com/

[WinchesterColt]

Thanks, pacomdiver. I'll give them a call. Do you have an email for them? All I find is the phone number.

Ok - I'll let Starline know i want some. Wouldn't that be nice if my request makes it happen?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Welcome to Castboolits WinchesterColt, keep trying to find your components, in the end it will be a whole heap of fun.

Your interest is so like mine, Pietta c&b pistol, 54cal TC Hawkin, And of course the Pedersoli 50/70 long range 1874 Sharps. If only we were neighbours, I could hand you 50/70 supplies over the fence!

Brass is very expensive here in Australia at $AU110/20 Starline from one dealer, and $AU170/50 from another. Then of course FFG powder is $AU139/kg but that's life.

You don't say which model, or how long is the barrel, my Sharps is 34" and is very accurate with the Lyman 515141 boolit (450gns). Alternatively I use a 510gn boolit wor target work.

https://i.imgur.com/QmglPAy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7Rj84YX.jpg

[pacomdiver]

thats all i found, i just drive there when i need stuff

[dtknowles]

Try this, my research says it should work....with minor mods. Site says it is available.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/50-alaskan-brass

Tim

[John Boy]

Rocky Mountain cartridges... lathe turned ... https://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/index_htm_files/RMC%20Product%20List.pdf

[WinchesterColt]

Hi Bad *** Wallace! A Sharps would have been nice, but this Remington showed up cheap, so now you know. I'm still watching for a Parker Hale Enfield or Whitworth - but they're a little more than I want to spend right now. Looks like you've been here a while - glad to meet you! What's it like hunting over there down under?

Oh man! You've gotta be rich over there to enjoy these guns! I feel sorry for you. Are those prices normal, or like here inflated 250% in the last nine months?

I can't give you much in the way of specifics on the Remington since it's still in the mail. Hopefully it'll show up in a week or two. The butt stock has a recoil pad installed and that might be part of the reason I got it for the opening bid - $300. Nonetheless, it seemed like a screaming deal to me, but didn't realize brass would be such a problem. I imagine there will be stuff to take care of and fix - seems the way it goes with used guns. Even the new repros require 'tuning' and fitting to make everything right. I've been into motorcycles my whole life and am used to that with every new (used) one I've ever gotten. It's been pretty much the same in the gun world, I'm finding.

I've read that the 515141 Lyman is the way to go, but looks like I'll have to purchase new (I NEVER buy new stuff if I can help it) since used aren't showing up in my searches. Glad to hear it's working well for you. I've never cast bullets, much less shot a BP gun, so it's all new to me. Exciting!

There certainly is a lot to learn and know in this game!

I called Dixons and they have some, but they're $2.50 each. Since I won't be needing them just yet, I'm seeing if anything cheaper turns up. These were $1.15 before the plague hit. Now they're more than doubled in cost. Not sure how many I should get - seems like 20 or 30 should be enough. What do you think?

Thanks for the help Tim and John. I'll look into them.

[WinchesterColt]

John Boy - it appears the 50-70 government from Rocky Mtn is $90 for 20 shells. $4.50 each. Ouch! But they don't say BACKORDERED

Tim - the Starline Alaskan Brass looks like a possibility, though I certainly don't need 250 cases. LOL
I'll have to cross reference the dimensions - are the rims and cases the same? I seem to recall the 50-70 brass is tapered. Correct?

How much too long is the Alaskan?

If they work, I guess I could put up an add and sell the couple hundred I don't need.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Once you have the components, there is a whole lot of fun to be had. Prices are near normal and just not in shops. I have about 250 brass cases and 3 molds that I can use.

38/55, 40/65, 45/70, 50/70 & 577 Snider (with 22 Hornet for compariison)
https://i.imgur.com/0b7mFCpl.jpg

My M/L's including PH Enfield and Volunteer
https://i.imgur.com/SY6JH8G.jpg

Then of course there are military re-enactments, but that's another chapter

https://i.imgur.com/PXYiLoM.jpg

[WinchesterColt]

Ooh man! You're making me jealous. What a collection! Wish you were my neighbor - you could jump the fence and shoot any time you want.

It appears the 50 Alaskan is pretty close in the important dimensions. It's .001" larger in neck Diameter, .012" smaller in Base D., but the rim is .050" smaller.
Except for being .35" too long which is easy to fix, the only one that concerns me is the rim. I don't know if that could be a problem or not. I'm thinking of calling Starline and requesting a sample case.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I use 348 Winchester brass to make 12.7 x 44R for my rolling block. The rim is smaller than the original cartridge but the extractor still works. I believe you can reform these to make 50/70 cases also.

(L to R) 50/70, 348 Win, Trimmed to length, completed and fire formed 12.7x44R case.
https://i.imgur.com/AFxNupph.jpg

[WinchesterColt]

The 348 is listed as the parent cartridge. If the smaller diameter rim still works, then the 50 Alaskan could be the answer. How difficult is it to expand the narrower section up front?

[cwtebay]

It's the other way around. The 348 WCF was designed around a parent cartridge which was the 50-110 (which had its roots in the various 50 hyphen cartridges). Your effort would be basically trimming and sizing from the aforementioned brass that's available.

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[Bad Ass Wallace]

I expand in a number of steps, .375, .429, .458, then .510.

[dtknowles]

The reason I suggested the .50 Alaskan was when I got my Swedish rolling block I too used 348 Winchester brass to make 12.7 x 44R before I got 50-70 brass. When I was hunting for brass someone who I don't remember suggested (or maybe I just found the hint on the internet) .50 Alaskan as it was originally as a wildcat formed from 348 Win. same deal with .500 Linebaugh but it is too short. Of course with a rimmed mostly straight case short still works.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If you have 348 win brass you can just fireform it in the gun with a light load of powder and filler. You don't have to use dies to expand the neck.

Tim

[John Boy]

Who knows when Starline will produce more? Almost three bucks a case seems a bit much to me.
Colt, they say .... If you want to dance, you have to pay the fiddler
In your case, unless you intend to have a 50-70 rifle as a safe queen, your going to have to pay the fiddler because your looking at a long time before 50-70’s will be back in production by all the vendors.

[WinchesterColt]

I don't have any 348, so that's out. I think the cheapest I've found is the 50 Alaskan for a little over a buck a case. I could get twenty or thirty to hold me over.

cwtebay - Yeah, guess I said it wrong - didn't make a whole lot of sense. But from what I read, the 348 was the parent of the 50 Alaskan. That's probably why the Alaskan rim is smaller - it's the same size as the 348.

That's good to know the 348 will work - I'll be on the lookout. The tricky part seems like it'll be cutting it to the right length since the total length is into the necked down section.

[WinchesterColt]

What I meant was that the 50 Alaskan was derived from the 348 win.

My only question about using the 348 is deciding where to cut it since the full length is into the necked down section.

Since I can get 50 Alaskan for a little over a buck a case, that makes the most sense to me.

[WinchesterColt]

John - true, the fiddler must be paid. However, I don't have to hire the first, and most expensive, to come along. I've seen prices as high as $4/ea when Starline sold them for $1.15/each originally. I've learned over the years that if I have the time and patience to shop I can usually get what I want for a decent price. When you have to buy those snow chains near the pass, you're gonna get raped. I do have time since the gun is in the mail and I don't have primers or bullets either. And even then, it's not like I'll starve if I can't go out and shoot a buck with it tomorrow.

Do you really think Starline won't be producing any more cases once production comes back up? Not being snarky, I just have no prior experience with situations like this. I would venture a guess that this case isn't a high demand item, so would probably not be one of the first to be replenished, but as far as dropping it completely - I sure hope not.

[pacomdiver]

[/QUOTE]
I've read that the 515141 Lyman is the way to go, but looks like I'll have to purchase new (I NEVER buy new stuff if I can help it) since used aren't showing up in my searches. Glad to hear it's working well for you. I've never cast bullets, much less shot a BP gun, so it's all new to me. Exciting![/QUOTE]

there were 2 on ebay in the last week, i almost bid on one but didnt think i really needed another one since my FIL doesnt shoot that much and i make them when i cast slugs and maxis for my BP

[hpbear101]

274570

The Lee 50-450 mold shoots very well in my Sprinfields, it is very close to the original military bullet.

I used .348 for years, it works fine but is a little on the small size at the base so your brass will have a bulged appearance and I occasionally had problems with the extractor slipping past the rim. IMHO you are better off in the long run to buy some Starline cases and they will last for a very long time.

Tom

[Drydock]

The Lee 515-450 is actually a closer representation to the original Government bullet, than the Lyman design. Lyman has drifted quite a bit over the years.

[wwmartin]

Brownells has Star-line 50 Alaskan in stock $105 ~100.
Bill

[Jeff Michel]

Just a matter of time, Starline will catch back up. Keep your eyes open for an opportunity till it's back in stock. I'm waiting for the same caliber and several besides. I'm patient, it will be a great deal colder in a different geographical region before I would pay 4x the regular price. Just my opinion, others will differ. Good luck on your search and welcome aboard.

[hpbear101]

https://store.prophetriver.com/starline-50-70-govt-100ct-4030/

http://www.thebulletbarn.com/brass.html

Couple places it is in stock.

[needmore]

You can try Liberty tree collectors 27.00. for 20

[pacomdiver]

i load the 515141 for my FILs trapdoor. im gonna PC some of the batch im making for him now and see what he says. i think they will look cool purple or john deere green, maybe might do some of those and the standard red , black and blue so they look like skittles in the ammo box

[toot]

BAD *** WALLACE, where did you go after you shaved? LOL!! just kidding.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

BAD *** WALLACE, where did you go after you shaved? LOL!! just kidding.

Rorke's Drift?:kidding:

[WinchesterColt]

Looks like Liberty tree collectors is out of stock. Too bad. Maybe someone jumped on them since you posted?

The bullet barn has them, but not cheap, putting it mildly. But they do have them. Maybe the prices aren't bad afterall - those are Canadian dollars - a 20% discount for me. But then there's the shipping and customs. I bought some lathe tools from Canada in Nov and they're still en-route - stuck in customs in San Francisco.

Pacomdiver - damn! wish I'd known the molds were listed on ebay. I do recall there being one, but it was close to the same price as new.

How's the Lee 515-450 holding up? I've heard the aluminum and brass molds don't work as well as steel - or was it that they don't last as long?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have been using brass and aluminium moulds for over 40 years and cast thousands of boolits!

https://i.imgur.com/6G6lxFe.jpg

[toot]

Rorke's Drift?:kidding:

ATTA BOY, kick them FUZZY WUZZYS A$$'$. or am I in the wrong battle? either way I am proud of you.

[toot]

I have been using brass and aluminium moulds for over 40 years and cast thousands of boolits!

https://i.imgur.com/6G6lxFe.jpg

I too have used, CBC molds for, 30, 40+years and they were the only ones who had a mold for the 7.35 CARCANO, at .300 DIA. in stock.

[WinchesterColt]

The 'new' rolling block showed up today and I'm a bit disappointed. It's a Pedersoli Remington Rolling block in fifty caliber.

First off, the seller said there were two little spots of rust in the barrel. I wouldn't call three inches of rust in the muzzle a minor issue. And then there's a patch of rust mid barrel as well.

There is pitting, so it's not just surface rust. But who knows - it might just shoot fine.

The other issue is I didn't know Pedersoli made a version as a muzzle loader. Was that one of the first rolling blocks before cartridges, or a Pedersoli creation?

I was wanting a breech loader. Is it possible to convert it?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Demand you money back, immediately! I've been a Pedersoli fan for 40 years and I've never heard of a muzzleloading 50cal rolling block. If it was a breech loader, there can be no reason to have any rust in the bore if it has been properly cared for. My 50/70 has had over 3000 rounds of black powder and the bore is mirror finished.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

What was the outcome on your dodgy purchase?

[Ed in North Texas]

i load the 515141 for my FILs trapdoor. im gonna PC some of the batch im making for him now and see what he says. i think they will look cool purple or john deere green, maybe might do some of those and the standard red , black and blue so they look like skittles in the ammo box

PCd .50-70? How do you keep the powder fouling soft from shot to shot? Do you use a blow tube or run a wet patch through after each shot? :kidding: I do realize that some people don't use Holy Black.

[Ed in North Texas]

Hey Bad ***, long time no see you on these pages (and that might just be me being elsewhere). Hope all is well with you and the Wuhan ChiCom Flu hasn't bothered you. My current project is converting .45-90 to 11.15x60 Mauser for a Kynoch converted 1873 Chassepot. Good shooting.