Bench rest percussion guns

[hawkenhunter50]

On an old percussion benchrest gun that has a hook near the muzzle, what did these hook onto while shooting? This is on a heavy barrel gun, way too heavy to hold freehand. Anyone know what this would have been hooked on to steady the gun?274424
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[smithnframe]

Perhaps a picture would be helpful?

[charlie b]

I remember seeing pictures of some pretty strange bench rest setups from the 'old' days.

[toot]

I believe they were used on WALL GUNS, to hook them to the wood ramparts.?

[SSGOldfart]

Picture would help some where used to steady the gun into a rest kinda like we use cross sticks today.
Simper-Fi

[hawkenhunter50]

I remember seeing pictures of some pretty strange bench rest setups from the 'old' days.

Any idea where it was you saw these pictures? I haven't been able to upload pics here for a while now. I will try again in the next day or so.

Basically its a metal hook at the end of the barrel, maybe hook isnt the right word. Almost like a letter C that looks like it was made to rest the end of the gun on something.

I have seen the wall guns with the hook and what I am talking about is different, at least in looks.

[Thundermaker]

I once saw a special on the "outdoor life network" about a particular kind of muzzleloader competition involving specially built guns called "chunk guns", some of which match your subscription. The hook helped stabilize it on the wooden slab rest called the "chunk". They shot round balls at, if I remember correctly, 500 yards.

[hawkenhunter50]

I once saw a special on the "outdoor life network" about a particular kind of muzzleloader competition involving specially built guns called "chunk guns", some of which match your subscription. The hook helped stabilize it on the wooden slab rest called the "chunk". They shot round balls at, if I remember correctly, 500 yards.

I checked into chunk guns and it does seem like this could fit in that description. Thanks for the info.

[hawkenhunter50]

Pics attached to original post. Looks like I got them working. If you need any other views let me know, appreciate it.

[arcticap]

Inline with what Thundermaker said, it strongly resembles the modern version of a quick release sling attachment.
Except in this case it's much more simplified, perhaps for attaching a type of sling using a simple D ring or a rectangular ring.

The modern ones have a much more complicated design. with a push button that disengages ball bearings which fits into a metal housing attached to a rail in the forestock of the gun.
The makers call it a quick detach sling swivel.
The reason for the quick detach on a modern heavy target gun is that the sling is directly attached to the arm of the shooter's jacket with a buckle, and is looped around the bicep like a belt, which helps support the rifle and the shooter's position.
When finished shooting, the sling stays wrapped on the arm. and it needs to be detached from the gun when the shooter wants to separate from the gun.
That hook makes it easier to quickly attach and detach the sling.
The modern target guns aren't as heavy as chunk guns, but I would guess a similar purpose, to help maintain a consistent position on the stock when sighting the rifle.
And probably also to help to keep the muzzle steady once the trigger is pulled.

The muzzle in the photo doesn't look like the heaviest type of chunk gun.
There's probably different classifications of guns depending on their weight.
How heavy is yours?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61otq89Jx5L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-QD-Quick-Disconnect-Sling-Swivel/dp/B00HKBSQ26
Magpul Industries Quick Detach Sling Swivel, Model Number: MAG540

[SSGOldfart]

Is that flush with the end cap ? Or does it go under the end cap? Could it have been added after the gun was built?

[hawkenhunter50]

Is that flush with the end cap ? Or does it go under the end cap? Could it have been added after the gun was built?

Nope does not go under, it ends where the end cap starts. Here are some more pics.274434
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[Thundermaker]

Makes me wonder if the hook is original to the gun.

[hawkenhunter50]

Makes me wonder if the hook is original to the gun.

It sure seems original to me or at least added long ago. Look at the oil staining of the wood around the edges.

274440

[navyvet]

If their bench had a metal rest for the barrel it would tear up the stock upon recoil. So they made a metal glide that would sit on the rest. Also add a little extra height for aligning sights. Check here https://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol1no3/articles/stutz_1.shtml

[Ural Driver]

Could it be for locking the gun into a rest/support by pushing it forward?

[arcticap]

About how much does the gun weigh?
Heavy chunk guns can weigh 80 - 90 lbs or more.
Then there's lighter ones such as yours looks like it may be.

[oldracer]

I would say with the curve of it and the smoothness of the metal edge it would allow the rifle to move backwards easily with recoil. Bench or chunk guns and I have several including one made by the great Wilburn "Web" Terry that they sit on a smooth flat surface and move back and forth but not up and down as little as possible. The chunk gun shoots usually go out to 40 rods or 220 yards with patched round balls. The patches are generally specially coated with spray lube or ????? secret stuff! Do you know the caliber and barrel twist rate? My chunk gun is 50 caliber and 1 in 48 twist and my other bench guns are all 45 caliber either 1 in 16 twist or a gain twist start at 1 in 24 and at muzzle 1 in 16. The chunk guns also have a normal rear stock, not the flat bottom rear stock like the one in Ken's picture that rests on the hand for support. If you do a search on chunk gun shoots especially the Sargent York one there are some pictures of massive muzzle loaders that shoot to 40 rods. Here's a link to get you started: https://prwarner.wixsite.com/sergent-york-shoot
By the way if you shoot that gun you'll need a set of bib overalls, white shirt, black tie and a fedora!!!!
John

[hawkenhunter50]

Gun is right about a 60 cal, haven't checked twist yet and weight is 18 lbs I was told. However haven't checked weight yet myself. Thanks for the links and info so far.

[Plastikosmd]

Likely a foot that interacted with a specific stand for that rifle. When pushed forward into battery it was a solid stop to sit against for repeatability. (Guess)

I only have a few pics of mine, I have one more similar to yours but no pic in phone

All of my bench or chunk guns have variations of feet or rests

https://i.postimg.cc/s2BMjX3n/0-CFC4-ECC-5-F4-E-42-DD-A8-E1-031590251065.jpg (https://postimg.cc/f3Nz5MtX)
https://i.postimg.cc/pVFrtWNX/847043-D0-72-FA-492-F-9-A13-FD2-C0-B1-F715-B.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Sjmk6pNw)
https://i.postimg.cc/NG6t45qT/150-C6489-1441-4099-B78-B-BC6-AB2-C1-E613.jpg (https://postimg.cc/fkR1WWbT)

[arcticap]

Gun is right about a 60 cal, haven't checked twist yet and weight is 18 lbs I was told. However haven't checked weight yet myself. Thanks for the links and info so far.

Thank you.
IMHO a bench rest or supported rifle shouldn't need a hook.

I found information that the MLAIC long range ML matches allow the use of a 2 point sling when shooting at distances up to 600 yards. --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/long-range-muzzle-loading-again.11155/

"...Shooting in the 19th century did not permit artificial support, including slings. Shooters fried prone, unsupported, or from the back position. Modern rules permit the use of a two point sling for ranges up to 600 yards (see Whitworth rifle picture above) and shooting is from the prone position. At ranges greater than 600 yards a wrist rest may be used, or the shooter can fire from the back position - as shown below..."
---------------
.45 cal percussion rifle
Weight 12lbs (in the 19th century weight was restricted to 10lb. Modern rules permit up to 15lb)
34-36" barrel
1:18 twist
---------------
In a blog describing a 1000 yard Creedmore ML commemorative match, a competitor mentions firing some shots supported and others shots unsupported. Each match can set up it's own rules. The fellow even posted a photo of himself wearing a modern shooting jacket while firing unsupported.

"(Official score was 20 points for both relays at 1000. I actually got 6 points supported and 15 1X unsupported...."
https://vringblog.wordpress.com/page/2/

https://vringblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/2019oakridge8.jpg

The hook could very well be used for something else, but it's just my opinion that it's used for a sling, possibly in the prone position.
I realize that you believe that it's a bench rest rifle, and it may be.
But perhaps it could also be a prone rifle.

[hawkenhunter50]

Likely a foot that interacted with a specific stand for that rifle. When pushed forward into battery it was a solid stop to sit against for repeatability. (Guess)

I only have a few pics of mine, I have one more similar to yours but no pic in phone

All of my bench or chunk guns have variations of feet or rests

https://i.postimg.cc/s2BMjX3n/0-CFC4-ECC-5-F4-E-42-DD-A8-E1-031590251065.jpg (https://postimg.cc/f3Nz5MtX)
https://i.postimg.cc/pVFrtWNX/847043-D0-72-FA-492-F-9-A13-FD2-C0-B1-F715-B.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Sjmk6pNw)
https://i.postimg.cc/NG6t45qT/150-C6489-1441-4099-B78-B-BC6-AB2-C1-E613.jpg (https://postimg.cc/fkR1WWbT)

Very cool, thanks for the info and the pics. What are the details of the gun. Be interested in pics of the gun you say is close to mine as well if you get around to it.

[hawkenhunter50]

Thank you.
IMHO a bench rest or supported rifle shouldn't need a hook.

I found information that the MLAIC long range ML matches allow the use of a 2 point sling when shooting at distances up to 600 yards. --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/long-range-muzzle-loading-again.11155/

"...Shooting in the 19th century did not permit artificial support, including slings. Shooters fried prone, unsupported, or from the back position. Modern rules permit the use of a two point sling for ranges up to 600 yards (see Whitworth rifle picture above) and shooting is from the prone position. At ranges greater than 600 yards a wrist rest may be used, or the shooter can fire from the back position - as shown below..."
---------------
.45 cal percussion rifle
Weight 12lbs (in the 19th century weight was restricted to 10lb. Modern rules permit up to 15lb)
34-36" barrel
1:18 twist
---------------
In a blog describing a 1000 yard Creedmore ML commemorative match, a competitor mentions firing some shots supported and others shots unsupported. Each match can set up it's own rules. The fellow even posted a photo of himself wearing a modern shooting jacket while firing unsupported.

"(Official score was 20 points for both relays at 1000. I actually got 6 points supported and 15 1X unsupported...."
https://vringblog.wordpress.com/page/2/

https://vringblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/2019oakridge8.jpg

The hook could very well be used for something else, but it's just my opinion that it's used for a sling, possibly in the prone position.
I realize that you believe that it's a bench rest rifle, and it may be.
But perhaps it could also be a prone rifle.

Thank you for the info, interesting stuff. When i got the gun it was advertised as a benchrest rifle, myself, I am not sure. That's what I am trying to figure out. I have been unable to find anything on the maker and am just trying to piece some history together for the gun.

I got the scale out and it weighed in at 17.8 lbs on the digital scale.

I just don't see how it could be fired unsupported, even though its only 18 lbs its almost impossible to hold up free hand.

The barrel measures 34" long and measures 1.5" across the flats at the muzzle!!

[oldracer]

There is a sly way around the having to support the fore end of the rifle and that is the hand supports the gun and there is a short support that the wrist or forearm rests on! Search for the South African Black Powder Union shooting folks and they have a lot of pictures of how the 1000 yard muzzle loading world championship matches are shot and if I remember the young fellow known far and wide as "CapandBall" has some YouTube videos showing the matches when they were held in Europe recently. There are several types like the Gibbs for the long range, the big barreled under hammer unlimited guns like they shoot at Friendship and then the "Chunk" guns like for the Sargent York matches. Sooooo here are many reasons to buy more rifles or to make them!
John

[Plastikosmd]

Hawkin
Those, one is and 80# Breisen, other is a 40lb Morris
I have 3 or so other morris guns, a Resor, one that the name escapes me, a pierce
That may be it. I like the heavy guns

The 80lb gun shoots a 1700grain swaged lead boolit over 3-350g of Bp

[Woodnbow]

Hawkin
Those, one is and 80# Breisen, other is a 40lb Morris
I have 3 or so other morris guns, a Resor, one that the name escapes me, a pierce
That may be it. I like the heavy guns

The 80lb gun shoots a 1700grain swaged lead boolit over 3-350g of Bp

Damn.