Color inside of primers

[dtknowles]

I pulled a new flat of primers out of a box of 1000 that I have been using lately. I have had these for probably a decade and have shot groups smaller than 1 MOA with cast bullets using them but when I dumped them onto the primer tray for my hand primer I got a surprise.

274265

These are CCI 400 Small Rifle primers. Half of them look normal and half look red. I have not seen this redness before.

What do you think?

Tim

[Bazoo]

Maybe they switched colors and you got the box that is the transition? I'd weigh some of both and see if I could determine anything.

[John Boy]

I’ve got primers that have a green powder charge ... they are magnums so n indication your red CCI’s are magnums

[rancher1913]

looks like the anvil, probably just switched suppliers. are the other sleeves the same or just one color.

[maxreloader]

I've seen all kinds of different colors with CCI but the years span at least 30... I was wondering myself what, if any, difference there was. The only way to tell... would be to choot em' and log the results.

[kevin c]

I had that happen, but it was a single primer that was silver inside the cup with 99 red colored primers, fresh out a tray of WSP's. I should actually say, one silver with 3,999 red, since I'd gone through that many of a sleeve of 5K.

[dtknowles]

I am not going to dump another sleeve right now to check the color but I will remember as it will only be a week or so before I will be into the next sleeve. I don't like the idea of CCI changing lots or processes inside a box of primers. The primers in every box should be the same.

Tim

[country gent]

A lot of primers have a sealer on the pellet and it may just be a different color there also.

[dtknowles]

A lot of primers have a sealer on the pellet and it may just be a different color there also.

I am hoping you are right but it disappoints me. I think it is poor quality control to change something like that in the middle of a box of product. Every item in a box should be from the same lot. If you make a change it should be at the end/beginning of a run not mid stream.

Tim

[kevin c]

I looked at my one oddball under magnification in comparison with its many siblings. It did look like the color difference was that most had red color on the anvil itself that the one did not.

So, it could be that mine has the same primer pellet the others do, but that the sealant didn't get into that one cup. A bigger concern would be that it's a different class of primer that somehow got mixed in with the rest. I don't know how likely that is, though. The possibility seems dependent on how the manufacturer segregates lots and types of primer production.

Since mine was for plinking rounds that in no way push the envelope, I seated the primer anyway and have not segregated the case.

ETA: and yes, I agree with dtknowles that is poor quality control, even if it might not change internal ballistics meaningfully.

[monadnock#5]

Ed Matunas wrote reloading articles for the American Rifleman back in the 80's. He advised checking the primer foil color before use. What you have there fails the test. An email to CCI would be prudent.

[murf205]

Call CCI. They are the best source of information for this question and the lady I talked with was very knowledgeable and helpful when I called.

[Burnt Fingers]

First world problems.

Apparently you've never seen the videos on how primers are made.

The lot number doesn't account for every individual item used in the making of primers. It's very possible to get a transitional group of primers. I've seen it a couple of times.

The only time it should matter is if you're a world class bench rest shooter going for a new record.

Also, expecting some phone drone to answer an obscure question about decade old primers.......I've got some ocean front land for sale in Arizona.

[Froogal]

That very thing is why I stopped using CCI. I had a few flats with mixed colors. I loaded them anyway. Turned out that odd colored primers were total duds.

[Cherokee]

I have gone thru many thousands of CCI primers since 1959, SP, LP, SR, LR. Never had a problem that was the primer's fault. Yes the colors have changed over the years.

[EMC45]

I've seen different colored foil, paper, anvils etc. Never had a problem with any of them.

[shaune509]

I'm seeing the anvils color is red, this could be from the start of the brass coil feeding into the stamping press. Many coils get a inked color marking from the rolling mill does not affect the metal.
Shaune509

[GoldieMI]

following along

[dtknowles]

I sent a message to CCI customer services. Waiting on an answer. I sent a question to Ruger once. Did not feel the answer was worth the effort of sending a message. I will probably just set them aside for plinking. I was thinking I was ready to move up to Bench Rest primers anyway.

Tim

[Burnt Fingers]

I'm seeing the anvils color is red, this could be from the start of the brass coil feeding into the stamping press. Many coils get a inked color marking from the rolling mill does not affect the metal.
Shaune509

I never thought about this even though I've seen the marked rolls of metals in other situations.

[David2011]

Looks like the color is wiped off of the outer perimeters of the primers. Maybe as suggested, just color at the beginning or end of a roll of anvil brass?

[charlie b]

I use Federal match primers. The anvils are various shades of red, at least in my current brick. It could be end of coil color or some other type of coloring put on before the punch and form die. Some of it wears off in the processing and some does not. Regardless it does not seem to affect performance.

[dtknowles]

Ok, I opened the next flat and they are all gold no red.

Still no response from CCI but it has been the holidays. I wonder if the factory has been running thru the holidays.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I got a message back from CCI asking for pictures and lot number. I supplied the requested pictures and lot numbers and after a week with no response I asked what was up and still no further response.

Disappointing not unexpected.

Tim

[Winger Ed.]

I use mostly CCI or Winchester primers.
I noticed a few years ago the color had changed in one or maybe both of them.
Like Winchester changing from a Chrome outside finish to a Brass colored one:
I noticed, but didn't give it a second thought.

I was priming a few hundred rat gun cases tonight with CCI SR.
They're fairly new (few months old), and yellow.

I guess its a dye in one of the chemicals/compounds,
or maybe they just got a better price on the paint- or whatever they seal them with.

[dtknowles]

I use mostly CCI or Winchester primers.
I noticed a few years ago the color had changed in one or maybe both of them.
Like Winchester changing from a Chrome outside finish to a Brass colored one:
I noticed, but didn't give it a second thought.

I was priming a few hundred rat gun cases tonight with CCI SR.
They're fairly new (few months old), and yellow.

I guess its a dye in one of the chemicals/compounds,
or maybe they just got a better price on the paint- or whatever they seal them with.

Yes, but it is only about 50 out of a box of 1000 and they were all in a sleeve of 100. Seems like a defect to me.

Tim

[bbogue1]

Here is some info I have found:
Inside primer (anvil) color and size
Winchester SPP are Red
Winchester SRP are Green
Winchester LRP are ?
CCI SPP are Yellow Brass
CCI SRP are Yellow Brass ( about 10 years ago they were red)
CCI LRP are Yellow
Federal SPP = Green
Federal LRP are

There are two sizes and four types of primers. Pistol primers have thinner and somewhat softer primer cups than their rifle counterparts. Small pistol and rifle primers utilize a cup 0.175" in diameter, while large pistol and rifle primers measure 0.210" across.
Small pistol and rifle primers are the same height. Large rifle primers are taller than large pistol primers.
Be Aware that Remington Small Rifle Primers,. Are not for anything much Hotter than 22Hornet... 222 and certainly 223 will cause Rem SRP to "pop" right at the Edge.

Source http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?415375-Color-inside-of-primers&highlight=anvil+color
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/171911-primer-color-reference/

[Burnt Fingers]

Small pistol and rifle primers are the same height.

Large rifle primers are taller than large pistol primers.

Three seconds to find this chart on a Duck-Duck-Go search.

https://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php

[bruce381]

"I agree with dtknowles that is poor quality control, even if it might not change internal ballistics meaningfully"

I would call this just selling as much as they can make knowing the color makes NO difference in anything.

Could even be like the end of the roll on our printer labels at work that showing a blue line to tell when to replace.

Its just the foil over the pellet if they did not fire that would be quality problem this is just packaging.

[dtknowles]

I sent them an e-mail and they asked for picture and lot code. I sent them the picture and lot code. The location where they said to look for the lot code was wrong but I still found the lot code. They did not get back in touch so I sent them another message and still no response. I am guessing they don't have an answer. These primers might be older than the person answering the e-mail.

I am sure they will go bang just fine but I was using them in bench rest ammo. I have bench rest primers but I was saving them for after I was done initial testing.

Tim

[racepres]

One Thing not Noted... Be Aware that Remington Small Rifle Primers,. Are not for anything much Hotter than 22Hornet... 222 and certainly 223 will cause Rem SRP to "pop" right at the Edge... not usually under the firing pin even!!!
How to gas cut a breech face... Fast!! Then like me you will be P-Oed.
Learned a Very long time ago... I just need to be reminded once in awhile...