Reloading Room Floor

[GregLaROCHE]

Six weeks ago I finally got my dirt floor covered with concrete. And I thought everything was going to get better, but it hasn’t.

The pad was poured over a plastic vapor barrier with a steel reinforcing grid. The concrete had way too much water in it and it took until 4:30 am for it t set up and finished with a power trowel. The temperature was around 50*F.

A week later it looked OK. I left it alone for five weeks so it would completely cure and dry and I could paint it with epoxy paint. Now I’m ready to paint and I a lighter color, but full of almost black patches. What can this be? I’m worried if the epoxy will adhere properly.

I have a rat problem and vacuumed up the poop before taking the pictures. I have been going through a lot of poison, but they seem to thrive on it. Is there any chance it could be from rat pee? If so what do I need to do before I get paint it. Unfortunately, there is no drain, so large amounts of water will be difficult to use.

Any ideas

[toallmy]

Just a guess , but I'd think it's trapped moisture , try ventilation and heat .

[tomj44]

I did concrete construction for 30 years. Your concrete looks fine. The dark spots happen more often when there is a vapor barrier.
Not rat pee, just the concrete drying. The slab maybe a little thicker in some areas, or wet ground under the slab, will cause uneven dry/ cure.

[GregLaROCHE]

I did concrete construction for 30 years. Your concrete looks fine. The dark spots happen more often when there is a vapor barrier.
Not rat pee, just the concrete drying. The slab maybe a little thicker in some areas, or wet ground under the slab, will cause uneven dry/ cure.

So I guess I still need to wait for it to dry more before I paint. It’s funny but the dark spots seem darker than when the concrete was just finished. Maybe it’s just an illusion because the rest is much lighter.

[Brass&Lead]

In the barn I use the old-style rat traps – no bait as you do not want to feed the critters.

Set the traps at the most sensitive setting and put them anywhere they go. I use a bench vise to hold the traps while setting as it saves the fingers.

Put out lots of them. Wait about 3-5 days and they will start chewing on the release and you collect the critters.

You need to close up any holes or gaps where they can get in or you will have more.

[Chad5005]

put a small fan and space heater on it,my shop did that for months

[Geezer in NH]

Add a dehumidifier to the room also.

[JimB..]

Where are you, I’d love to test a new NV setup on some rats! Suppressed 22 or airgun as you wish.

As with many things, I know nothing about the specifics of your problem, but look at the temp requirements for your epoxy, I would expect it to adhere better at higher temps. I’d also wait longer given the excessive moisture in the mix and that the moisture couldn’t escape to earth. To be clear, I don’t know if these matter, just what I’d do given my level of ignorance.

I also understand that rat and mouse feces can carry some nasty respiratory diseases, so wear protection and or sweep vs vac.

[GregLaROCHE]

I am getting ready to get some traps. It seems like since I started putting out the poison, the amount of rat poop increased. Also, I used that basement for reloading for more than five years. I never saw anything there that suggested rats. Some small mouse turds now and then, but a few packages of poison would take care of them. I’m now on my third half gallon tub of paste type poison and I added a box of small block type. Yes it’s time for traps, but those rat traps ain’t cheap like little mouse traps.

[onelight]

So I guess I still need to wait for it to dry more before I paint. It’s funny but the dark spots seem darker than when the concrete was just finished. Maybe it’s just an illusion because the rest is much lighter.

Yup I would wait to paint as long as you can , try to avoid getting oil on it.

[toallmy]

I live surrounded by fields , so I run a trap line in the house every fall hahaha .
Also at work I asked the boss for some more rat food , he didn't get it at first asking me why I was feeding the rats , I told him it was so I could track them following the poo .

[Shawlerbrook]

Ditto on the dehumidifier and waiting a while for curing. I remember hearing that concrete takes months to fully cure.

[onelight]

I live surrounded by fields , so I run a trap line in the house every fall hahaha .
Also at work I asked the boss for some more rat food , he didn't get it at first asking me why I was feeding the rats , I told him it was so I could track them following the poo .
Do you have a bunch of little hides stretched and drying in the sun :)
I have had a great time hunting rats over bait with air guns . Even got 2 with one shot a few times when they lined up for me.

[RU shooter]

Get some big snakes for pets . [smilie=l:

[MOA]

Ya Rats are bad news. Moved into a new residence. Put one of my mounts out in the storage building overnight... Big mistake. A big Rat lived near by.
After seeing what he did I got 4 big Rat traps and screwed them to the floor and baited them up.

https://i.postimg.cc/zGd3G266/20200816-114943.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gxZGMsYH)

https://i.postimg.cc/N0M98vRQ/20201110-091535.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5Xh21GPr)

[MrWolf]

The poison takes awhile. I use traps first then poison to maintain. I would use traps and a heater and dehumidifier then paint.

[Winger Ed.]

Most folks say wait 60-90 days for it to cure before painting.

To be sure you're not trapping moisture-- which will make the epoxy bubble and turn loose,
lay a piece of heavy plastic on it in a few places. Wait a day or so and lift them up.
If there is still moisture coming out, you'll see it as a damp spot under the plastic.

[Brass&Lead]

Order 12 of these traps. They have been working good for several years:
https://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/victor-holdfast-traps-rat-size-m326

[Drm50]

People get in hurry to paint concrete and pressure treated lumber projects. I tell them to put off painting concrete for at least 2 months and in summer longer.

[GregLaROCHE]

People get in hurry to paint concrete and pressure treated lumber projects. I tell them to put off painting concrete for at least 2 months and in summer longer.

Why longer in summer?

[iomskp]

I ran a small fan heater at about 35 C for a few days before I painted, however the cement slab had been down for about 6 months, as far as the rat problem goes I have 2 resident pythons that live in my shed, we have a good working relationship I try not to bother them and they take care of any rodents.

[Drm50]

Summer the humidity is higher, takes longer for concrete to cure. This would be different regionally.

[silahtar]

Concrete will cure even under water, actually cures better when kept moist so it doesn't get too warm...

[GregLaROCHE]

Where I am summers are hot ad dry, whereas winter is cold and damp. I hope I’m not going to have to wait until summer to finish this project.

[monadnock#5]

FWIW, I saw a program once where a big city exterminator took a 4'X4' sheet of cardboard, covered it with a good thick coat of contact cement, and then dotted it with a little roast beef, peanut butter, cheese, mashed up potato chips, for the most discerning of rodents. He claimed that the setup would take the most trap savvy of rats.

[PBMAX84]

If you think about all that water in all that concrete it will start to make sense. You won't find much liquid in hardened concrete right? Takes it a while to work out I guess....

[oley55]

Assuming you don't have a chicken coop nearby a weasel will do a job on the biggest of rats. Unfortunately, I've never run across any "Rent a Weasel" outfits.

[onelight]

I've never run across any "Rent a Weasel" outfits.
I have , when a contractor has overbooked he will rent some and send them to the job site :(

[oley55]

I have , when a contractor has overbooked he will rent some and send them to the job site :(

Are those the two legged variety?

To the OP, the longer the wait the better. And no matter how well it may hide floor imperfections, I would not use any of those speckle/paint chip coverings. Dropped small parts are hard enough to find as is, way worse on a speckled floor.

[Trapshooter]

I read a "how to" book for Australian farmers from the early 1900's. They recommended a 50/50 mix of flour and portland cement, with pans of water nearby. Stock, pets and children were at no risk, but rats will eat anything. It might be an effective, safe, easy, and inexpensive solution here.

Trapshooter

[joatmon]

I once moved into a block house and discovered rats coming in around the plumbing. Dad told me to set 3 trapping type traps in a tight circle and cover with a thin cloth,
then crumble corn bread in the middle. Trapped about a week got I think 21 rats ( lived on a creek bank ) then fixed around pipes no more rats.
Aaron

[beagle]

Got the same problem in my shop. Keep about 3 traps and a jar of peanut butter up there. Every couple of days, I empty the DBs and reset the traps. The neighborhood possum comes by and disposes of the DBs for me. Never ending task./beagle

[Winger Ed.]

Get on youtube and search 'rat traps'.
There are some really great looking traps guys have built and are filmed in action with trail cams..
Especially the electric ones---- they are hilarious to see working.

[wmitty]

Thought I would go ahead and say something about the concrete. I spent 24 years as a construction inspection with Tx Dot. We were taught the “truth” about Portland cement concrete. The strength and quality of pcc depends on ratio of water to cement (by mass, or weight). Low water/cement ratio means high strength/quality of the placed concrete. High water/ cement ratios yield low strength/ quality and porous concrete. The easiest fix for your slab is to place a thin layer of low water/cement ratio concrete on top of what you have and cure it by covering the surface with plastic to keep the moisture in the concrete to allow complete hydration of the cement.
My experience was that many contractors could place concrete, but few contractors knew what they were doing.

[Bmi48219]

To be sure you're not trapping moisture-- which will make the epoxy bubble and turn loose,
lay a piece of heavy plastic on it in a few places. Wait a day or so and lift them up.
If there is still moisture coming out, you'll see it as a damp spot under the plastic.

This is the standard. Water droplets on the underside of plastic indicates it’s too wet to paint.
You can also purchase or maybe rent a meter that indicates the moisture level of cementitious floors & walls. Most coating manufacturers note the acceptable moisture level on their products.
Concrete suppliers test their products for a range of strengths achieved over a duration of time. Your floor is probably of the 4,000 psi crush strength after 28 days if installed as mixed at the plant. Adding excessive water at the site will result in a weaker crush strength along reduction of tensile and shear strength and increased porosity. Unless you intend to park a M48 Patton on it your floor will be fine. Ventilate until moisture level is acceptable.
BTW concrete continues to cure and become stronger for years. Concrete that tests at 4000 psi after 28 days will be 8000 psi after 20 years.

[brass410]

RATS RATS RATS everywhere, at one time we owned a home with a small barn, nearby property was a municipal land fill when they would burn we would become instantly infested with rats, (you could see their trails in the grass where they had migrated). We tried everything from traps to bulk poisonings. Finally one day an older fellow whom I knew from a racing pigeon club mentioned about vermin problems and how he had resolved them. In a very thick Austrien accent he said "yous need und ferret or perhaps 2, release at night in zee house und catch in das morn. So desperate, we found a person who had ferrets and purchased a couple and got all neccessary info for maintence and care, the first night was a blood bath in the kitchen the next was dead rats anywhere they were caught, by night 3 no rats in the house not even a squeak, next was the barn I was apprehensive because my wifes laying hens might be attractive easy kills for these little physcopaths but the hens stayed on thier roosts and the ferrets didnt bother them. We soon learned ferrets and rats do not mix and even litter from their pen is enough to deter most types of vermin. As for your concrete colour I think its probably still drying.

[Mr_Sheesh]

There is a guy on Youtube who hunts rats with minks, another possibility. Do what fixes the rat issue :)

[Greg S]

Standard for cure in the industry is 28 days. It can be coated earlier with a special moisyure bartier epoxy primer which generallt is 4x as expensive as the standard primer.

To check if ready to coat, tape down a piece of 18" x 18" plastic in a couple of spots and check back in 24 hours. If moisture is present, give it more time.

I'm presently just finishing up at a manufacturing plant in the silicon forest doing chemical resistant floor coatings on containments for process chemical storage tanks. With this test we were able to coat 8" walls and a 4"-20" grade slab a week after it was poured a month ago.

There was no curing agents used. The concrete was diamond ground and shot blasted as soon as form work was removed.

What is your surface prep plan/requirenent, hand grind, acid etch? Ventilation is key. Start venting once dew burns off and close off as temps start to decline.

If you have any specific questions, you can PM me. G

[deltaenterprizes]

Get on youtube and search 'rat traps'.
There are some really great looking traps guys have built and are filmed in action with trail cams..
Especially the electric ones---- they are hilarious to see working.

I like the one built with a drink can, 5 gallon bucket half full of water and a coat hanger!

[TimD]

I tried 4 or 5 different rat poisons before Tomcat All Weather Bait Chunks. It worked well for me. I wired them into PVC pipe and place along their runs around the barn next to the wall. It took 2 large pails, about 40 pounds, and a month but we got rid of them. The only thing we see now are field mice.

I agree with wmitty, "High water/ cement ratios yield low strength/ quality and porous concrete. The easiest fix for your slab is to place a thin layer of low water/cement ratio concrete on top of what you have and cure it by covering the surface with plastic to keep the moisture in the concrete to allow complete hydration of the cement."

and GregS, "To check if ready to coat, tape down a piece of 18" x 18" plastic in a couple of spots and check back in 24 hours. If moisture is present, give it more time."

They told us in school that concrete cures for about 100 years, then falls apart.