Need help with load data

[Elpatoloco]

I started casting for the wife's 9mm because of the obvious shortage. I snapped up a 6 gang Lee 356-125 RN. I have sworn off Lee as Ive never had luck with any mould made by them. This one rains slugs like a heavy thunderstorm. They weigh in at 131.5 to 132 gr. I am having a heck of a time finding any load data for this slug.
I have WSF and 231 on hand as well as HS-6. I'd rather not use my HS-6.

[454PB]

I use that boolit powder coated in 4 different 9mm's. A good start is CCI 500, 4.3 gr. of 231 seated to a COL of 1.100".

[ryanmattes]

I loaded the Lee 358-125-RF (came in around 127-128) in 9mm with 3.5gr of Titegroup with good results. Equivalent would be something like 5.5-ish of HS-6 or 3.5-ish of 231. Maybe start a half a grain down from that and build a ladder up. Can't help with OAL on that slug, I've never loaded it. But I loaded the RF pretty short without problems, I think down to 1.030.

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[Elpatoloco]

I use that boolit powder coated in 4 different 9mm's. A good start is CCI 500, 4.3 gr. of 231 seated to a COL of 1.100".

What do your slugs weigh? I guess what has me "off" is the weight being 8 gr heavy before powder coating.

Same alloy throws 125 to 126 in a lee 124 tumble lube, TC mould that was a piece of scrap from the get go. Its a serious fight to get that mould to produce. I would have bought anything other than lee for this last mould but grabbed what was available.

[P Flados]

Hodgdon load data from my trusty old pdf has a Sierra 125 FMJ with 4.8 gr of 231 for 1088 fps from a 4" barrel. The load is also in their on-line tool.

Quickload says the above bullet is 0.581" long and the fill for the round is 81.4% at the 1.09" used by Hodgdon.

QL says the Lee boolit is 0.570" long so you should have a good deal less fill at the 1.1" previously recommended. At 4.8 gr of 231, the reduced fill drops the QL predicted pressure by around 4000 psi. Increasing the boolit weight from 125 gr to 132 gr only increases the QL predicted pressure by around 1400 psi.

The above all looks great. Now for some of warnings.

The Hodgdon on-line tool also has a load for a 125 LCN that has a 1.125" OAL, stops at 4.4 gr 231, and has a higher pressure than the Sierra 125 fmj.

They also have a load for a 130 Berb that has a 1.150" OAL, stops at 4.3 gr 231, and again has a higher pressure.

Also, the QL predicted pressure for the Hodgdon Sierra 125 FMJ load is a good bit higher than the published data.

Even though a 130 gr Lee 356-125-2R at 1.1" should run less pressure than a Sierra 125 FMJ at 1.09", I would use caution given the apparently conflicting data points. The 4.4 gr of 231 with a 1.1" OAL for your Lee boolit actually looks pretty good (and safe), but I do not think I would go much higher for a charge and/or shorter for an OAL.

[Ford SD]

I started casting for the wife's 9mm because of the obvious shortage. I snapped up a 6 gang Lee 356-125 RN. I have sworn off Lee as Ive never had luck with any mould made by them. This one rains slugs like a heavy thunderstorm. They weigh in at 131.5 to 132 gr. I am having a heck of a time finding any load data for this slug.
I have WSF and 231 on hand as well as HS-6. I'd rather not use my HS-6.


here is where you can find a copy of Winchester data pdf pg 26 list data for lead 9mm 124 -147g

Start at min and work up, WSF is a good powder for the 9mm but watch out at the high end

make sure you make a few dummy rounds and do a plonk test

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/powder-company-manuals/11-winchester-reloading-manuals/7-winchester-reloading-manuals

[dtknowles]

What do your slugs weigh? I guess what has me "off" is the weight being 8 gr heavy before powder coating.

Same alloy throws 125 to 126 in a lee 124 tumble lube, TC mould that was a piece of scrap from the get go. Its a serious fight to get that mould to produce. I would have bought anything other than lee for this last mould but grabbed what was available.

What is the composition of your alloy and what it the temperature of your pot? I suspect that you are using a low tin alloy at too low a temperature. This does two things, it makes crappy bullets and it makes heavy bullets.

Tim

[dtknowles]

You did not say what the gun is but if it is +P capable you have a lot of margin to play with.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I had a two cavity mold for that Lee bullet and wore it out and bought the six cavity mold. I was happier with the two cavity mold. Six cavity molds are fussy about pace. Got to go fast and run the pot hot and the sprues must be large.

Tim

[Larry Gibson]

Start at 3.5 gr of the 231 and work up to 4 gr.

Start at 4 gr of the WSF and work up to 4.8 gr.

[reddog81]

Hodgdon's website has load data for 231 and HS-6 in 124, 125, and 130 grain bullets.

[Ed_Shot]

I like the Lee 356-125-2R over WSF. Totally agree with Mr. Gibson's advice on loads above. As for COAL, I load for several 9MM's and I seat to 1.055" with this boolit. Use dummy rounds to find the best fit for your chamber.

[bangerjim]

Like said above. Find a weight close to what you have and start at the lightest load listed. There will never be printed load data for every exact boolit you may cast. That is part of the fun! The printed data charts are kind of guidelines and not hard fast rules. Just do not exceed the max load point for safety reasons. There' not much "head-room" in those tiny 9mm cases and pressures can go very high very quickly.

Load 6 or so dummy rounds to check your gun's ability to load and cycle your OAL and boolit profile. Keep the successful ones a reference for future loading sessions. Saves a lot of time! I have sample dummy carts for every profile and cal I load for in semi's.

[Tatume]

Like several others have already said: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

[Rainier]

I use that boolit powder coated in 4 different 9mm's. A good start is CCI 500, 4.3 gr. of 231 seated to a COL of 1.100”.


There is your answer ^^^^^

I use that same boolit and had always loaded 4.1 grains of W231 but discovered a Ruger that wouldn’t cycle with that load. 4.3 grains of W231 was the magic.

[454PB]

What do your slugs weigh? I guess what has me "off" is the weight being 8 gr heavy before powder coating.

Same alloy throws 125 to 126 in a lee 124 tumble lube, TC mould that was a piece of scrap from the get go. Its a serious fight to get that mould to produce. I would have bought anything other than lee for this last mould but grabbed what was available.

I use a 75/25 mix of WW/linotype alloy, and mine weigh 126 grains powder coated.

[Conditor22]

+1 pm larry's W231 3.9 grains. under the lee 356-125 2R gives me a 1/2" group

for best results with loading cast 9mm (and most cast boolits) you need to slug your barrel to determine the diameter of boolit you need (usually .002-.003 over slugged diameter though some guns are different)

determine the hardness of the lead/alloy you need for the velocity you're going to push the boolit

determine if you are going to lube or coat the boolit (coating usually adds.001 -.002 to the diameter)

In loading 9mm's you need to make sure you don't "swage down the size of the boolits drive band when seating the boolit. I use an NOE case neck expander/case mouth flarer

Load a dummy round then pull the boolit with a kinetic boolit puller, measure the drive bands and make sure you have swaged them down in the seating process

You will find load data here http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

boolit weight will vary depending on alloy hardness, and casting temperature

a rough rule is you need 1 BHN for every 100 FPS you plan on pushing the boolit (powder coating helps push the boundaries)

https://i.imgur.com/XJyXxfE.png

[rintinglen]

4.4 grns WSF should give you the oomph to run your gun and make nice holes in the target.

However, I've used that boolit cast from range lead sized .358 and tumble lubed, with an OAL of 1.11" over 4.1 grains of ww-231 with excellent results and that would be my recommendation. Load a few, try them, and adjust accordingly.

[Traffer]

What is the composition of your alloy and what it the temperature of your pot? I suspect that you are using a low tin alloy at too low a temperature. This does two things, it makes crappy bullets and it makes heavy bullets.

Tim

^^^What he said^^^

[Elpatoloco]

What is the composition of your alloy and what it the temperature of your pot? I suspect that you are using a low tin alloy at too low a temperature. This does two things, it makes crappy bullets and it makes heavy bullets.

Tim

Alloy is range scrap. Lee pot running wide open, just like with every other aluminum mould I use.

I believe my mould may be cut a hair large. The Lee 124 TLTR throws at 125 to 126 gr out of 124 mould same alloy.
The old Lyman 452374 which is supposed to be 225 grs throws at 228 with same alloy.

I have not measured slugs that drop from the mould. The wife's guns like .357 diameter in the other mould.
I just made 1500ish of them. Weighed a pile to see what they came out to. I powdercoated and then sized.

They look as good as any slugs I've cast in the last 20 years. Plenty enough tin and heat for excellent fill out. Hardness is around 16.

Gun really likes the 124 TLTC slugs. Mold is a real piece of crap.

This latest mould is the only Lee mould that I have used that is worth a flip.

I will try some of the thing you fellas listed. Thanks.

I guess moral of the story is Lee is Junk and I should have purchased another Accurate mould.

[dtknowles]

You could be right your mold could be on the large size, fresh cherry maybe. That is real nice range scrap if it is 16 BHN and has lots of tin. The heavier bullet is a plus, sort of, use keep it in mind when picking a powder charge. I run my Lee pot full bore most of the time as well. My Lyman thermometer say 790 degrees.

Tim

[Handloader109]

I don't like this one myself as I have to load SHORT when I PC it. But My little 2 cavity drops 126 or so.. Never see 130 after PCing. And that is with various lead I've bought here.

[Cherokee]

I use WST @3.9 gr 1.055 OAL for the Lee 120 TC, usually weighing 123 gr for me. It produces 1100 fps from 5" XDM. For heavier bullets like the Lee 125 RN 2R @ 127 gr I used 4.0 gr 231 at 1.073 OAL; went thru several thousand w/o a problem in a variety of 9's. Anything lighter than 4.0 gr gave reliability problems. I use a Lyman 38AP spud, it also bell the case mouth, and extends deeper in the case to avoid down sizing my .357 bullets while seating. Just some thoughts for you.

[P Flados]

I guess moral of the story is Lee is Junk and I should have purchased another Accurate mould.

You seem very concerned about the extra 8 grs. As noted above you seem unhappy with the mold.

The extra weight is not a big deal. This is one area where Quickload is very good at evaluating. For the same pressure, you need to adjust your charge down 0.07 to 0.08 grs for a typical max load. The extra weight is equivalent to seating a boolit 0.008" deeper than a reference load.

You said the mold "rains slugs like a heavy thunderstorm" and for the bullets "They look as good as any slugs I've cast in the last 20 years". I am hope you do not let a dislike of Lee products in general get in the way of you enjoying a mold that seems to have potential for performing very well for your need.

[GoldieMI]

what pistol is she shooting? some barrel leades are real short (Gen 5 Glocks and CZs for example)

[Elpatoloco]

You seem very concerned about the extra 8 grs. As noted above you seem unhappy with the mold.

The extra weight is not a big deal. This is one area where Quickload is very good at evaluating. For the same pressure, you need to adjust your charge down 0.07 to 0.08 grs for a typical max load. The extra weight is equivalent to seating a boolit 0.008" deeper than a reference load.

You said the mold "rains slugs like a heavy thunderstorm" and for the bullets "They look as good as any slugs I've cast in the last 20 years". I am hope you do not let a dislike of Lee products in general get in the way of you enjoying a mold that seems to have potential for performing very well for your need.

My dislike of Lee products comes from the lack of quality from every single Lee mould that I have cast with over the years. This particular mould is the first one that I've had that actually works as advertised straight out of the box. I NEVER would have purchased this mould had an alternative been readily available. I feel confident that this one will give me my money's worth. In fact, its likely to end up making up for the half dozen pieces of junk that I have purchased from Lee. There is a reason they are so much cheaper than the rest.
The second best mould I have from Lee was sold new in box to me from Midway. It has 5 usable cavities.

I APPRECIATE the insight into the load data. I am not familiar with Quickload. Will google that up as soon as I log out. Many Thanks Gents.

[Elpatoloco]

what pistol is she shooting? some barrel leades are real short (Gen 5 Glocks and CZs for example)

She shoots a VP9 as well as a Springfield Hell cat.

[canyon-ghost]

I use a 6 cav Lee with wheelweight and 3.2 grains of Bullseye..

[charlie b]

If you are unhappy with the weight of the bullets you are getting I'll take the mold. :) I've always wanted a bullet for the 9mm that was a little heavier than the 124's.

I have the 105gn mold but don't like pushing the velocity to get it to function well in my VP9. Need to get the lighter recoil spring for it.

[Elpatoloco]

Ran to the range and tested with WSF. Had to seat to 1.080 to chamber. 4.1 gr functions nicely but sooty brass. 4.3 starts to flatten a couple primers. Both group exceptional. No idea of pressure. Any ideas?

[Conditor22]

Have you slugged the barrels of her guns? with Cast boolits, size is key.
I've never use WSF but have great results with W231/HP-38 - 3.9 grains