Ideal mold casting too fat!!

[lpel]

I have an old Ideal mold 452488 that I recently dug out after it sitting idol for likely close to 20 or more years. It casts a beautiful 200 gr boolit and I’m using 50/50 old WW and pure lead air cooled for use in a 45 ACP. I no longer use traditional lube as I now strictly PC.

The problem that I’m having is that it casts Boolits that are measuring 455/456. I’m have a very hard time sizing them down to 452 using my Star with the NOE sizing conversion. I even tried the old RCBS lube /sizer.

Looking for any suggestions! I’m thinking maybe I should order an NOE mid range sizing die like 454. Thoughts?


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[William Yanda]

What temperature are you casting? Will the mold function at a slightly lower temperature?

[ryanmattes]

Some of it can be addressed with your alloy. If they're still fat... Push through sizer? You don't need the lube, so there's really no reason not to get a $20 push through that does everything you need.

I size mine after coating, and they go through easily with no lube and without leaving anything in the sizer die.

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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

That is unusually fat for a Lyman mold, I bet there is a mechanical problem, something not allowing the mold to close tightly. Maybe something with the handle mounting? or a Alignment pin not properly seated? Can we assume the mold faces have been well cleaned?

[Larry Gibson]

Many old Ideal moulds will invariably cast large with ternary alloys. Many of the earlier Ideal moulds were cut for alloys well before Lyman [not to be confusing Lyman moulds with Ideal moulds] standardized on #2 alloy. Many pistol bullets were cut for binary alloy of lead to tin or even Lyman #1 alloy all of which gave greater shrinkage than ternary alloys.

You might be able to trade that mould, or sell it to someone looking for a light weight bullet of that size for 45 Colt or Schofield use in SASS competition.

Or, you might try sizing the bullets as soon as they are cool enough to handle before they fully harden.

[tazman]

If you are getting boolits that are consistently 3-4 thousandths too large, the easiest way to reduce their size is to run them through a push through sizer in your press.
Either Lee or NOE makes push through sizing dies that fit a standard reloading press. This gives you far more leverage and takes the strain off your lubrisizer equipment.
I do this before running overly large boolits through my Lyman 4500 to save wear and tear on it.
It is an extra step, but it works for me.
Best to do the sizing right away before the boolits get a chance to harden. Hard boolits are a problem to resize, even with push through dies on a good press.

[lpel]

All good advice and certainly all things I can try out for sure.

Will I don’t have a thermometer but I run my Lee bottom pour between 8/9 which is fairly hot and I usually have two molds on the go. But I can certainly try cooler temps.

Ryan I am running an Noe push through sizing Die on a Star but readily admit it does not have allot of leverage. I also tried my RCBS with a regular 452 bullet lube sized and even had trouble with that. Perhaps I should try a Lee push through on my Rock Chucker or a 454 NOE on my Star.

JonB no issues with the mold I have checked it over carefully and it’s all cleaned up. It was never really dirty.

Larry I’m not looking to part with the mold just yet. It’s simply too nice of a mold. I’ll try sizing them shortly after I cast them next time. Worth a shot.

Taz thanks for the suggestions. As I said I’ll give those a try.

I have had a Lee 6 cavity 200 SWC that has given me years of good service ( I have a brand new back up) which I will continue to use. I also have a Lee 6 cavity 230 TC which I have used for 45 ACP but am currently working with that one on a couple recent 45 Colts (lever and revolver). As well I have a pretty much new Saeco 3 cavity mold that I need to use. I just hate to not use the ole Ideal mold if I can help it.

Thanks ago fellas. It’s a crisp -12 C here. I waiting for daylight to head out to do some coyote calling. Likely be a while before I start casting again.

[rockrat]

I had a 452460 that cast at .457" using wheelweight alloy. Sold it decades ago, but wish I had it back. Probably could have cast with #2 alloy and had a lightweight 45-70 boolit.

[Forrest r]

I've shot countless 1000's of those 452488 bullets in the past along with the h&g #68's.

The 452488 is a clone of the h&g #130 that h&g introduced at the end of 1949.

Your bullet has rounded grease grooves, always has. Other designs ideal/lyman made has square grease grooves and they switched over to round grease grooves in the 1950's. Ideal started putting vent lines in their molds in the 1950's also.

My 1953 ideal #39 catalog does not have this mold listed in it.

The lyman #2 alloy has been around a long time. It's listed in my #34 ideal catalog (1940). Don't know why but I remember something about #2 alloy in Sharp's book from 1934, don't know will have to pick thru it 1 of these days.

Your 50/50 mix shouldn't be throwing extremely large bullets. I've never had much success accuracy wise when I sized bullets down over 3/1000th's. Didn't matter if I used a lyman 450 sizer, push thru dies in a press or a swaging press.

As others have stated your mold would be highly sought after by anyone looking for oversized 45acp bullets or .455" 45cal bullets in general. I don't use that bullet in the 45acp revolvers but I use a cramer bullet that extremely close in design to the h&g #130's/lyman's 425488.
https://i.imgur.com/DuFFJCS.jpg

[jeepyj]

Unsure about your mould but I've definitely had moulds thay pour small and big even with a PID and some pretty uniform mix. I'll agree with Forrest r that when I've had to shave them down that far they don't seem to perform as ones that dump a little closer to your desired diameter. Had a 230 round ball for my acp that always dropped small and had stopped using it until powder coating came along which added on just enough to bring that thing to another level of accuracy. Good luck

[Green Frog]

Just a random thought here... you may also be casting harder than you need for what is after all, a design for target rounds... so I would start with adjusting my alloy up to 3/4 pure and 1/4 COWW. I discovered (to my chagrin) that higher percent lead would yield smaller diameter bullets, but you can take advantage of this phenomenon to get smaller bullets as you need. You will also find the softer bullets easier to size the rest of the way down if needed.

Froggie

PS Unless it was being worshipped, your mould was not "sitting idol". Rather it was just sitting idle for all that time. ;-)

[Geezer in NH]

Sell it on the sell forum at twice the price of the same modern #. Buy new made one it WILL be smaller what you want IMHO