Homemade primer compounds

[M-Tecs]

Good link for the folks that want to give this a try

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf

[Scrounge]

Glad there's a new thread on it. I've ordered the primer compound kit from 22lrreloader, and trying to figure out where I can get the various ingredients for the total DIY stuff. Thanks! Finished a butterscotch beer (non-alcoholic) and was headed for the trash can when I realized it was clear glass, and just about perfect for a trial run for powdered glass.

[MisterStyx]

I've been eyeing that pdf for a few months now. I need to finish my black powder project first.

I'm very interested in the bismuth trioxide version at the end.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Years back the NRA sold a book about large scale Ammunition Making. Full of details about all processes from Drawing brass to final ammo assembly.

In the detailed chapter about primers was a short story of a many year experienced worker who was in charge of the primer department. There was a specially prepared sidewalk he used daily to carry a fresh batch of primer compound from the mixing room to the combining room.
As always the special heavy thick walled container was filled and the department head began his walk Along the way there was a massive explosion creating a deep hole through the sidewalk. No recognizable piece of the man or his clothing was ever located..

[MisterStyx]

https://archive.org/details/AmmunitionMakingNRAByG.Frost1990

This book is what you're talking about. Good book for folks wanting more information on making ammunition.

If you want explosion horror stories there's also this thread on a great forum. It's called "Life after detonation"

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22554

[Mal Paso]

On a related note:

I tried to find decent strike anywhere matches and they are gone from the market. The new green ones won't light reliably even on their own striker.

The story I got was the strike anywhere matches are hazardous materials and no one wanted to pay shipping.

One more thing that actually worked, gone.

Thanks for the links!

[Skipper]

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=strike+anywhere+matches&_sacat=0

[Traffer]

The EASIEST way to attain priming compound is by the use of GOOD toy roll caps. Made in Germany "Legends" caps used to be sold in Walmart and other such places for less than $4.00 per pack. But haven't seen them in about 3 years
274075
And here is a link to a previous discussion on using caps:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?313165-Cap-maker-idea

[RU shooter]

What about those "snap it" noise makers the ones that look like a small wad of toilet paper with a tail twisted in the end , throw them against anything hard and they pop with a slight flash . Is the ingredients in those possibly usable ?
https://usamagictricks.com/bang-snaps-poppers-p-41228.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiqrQs7_x7QIVf4paBR3FQ AovEAQYAiABEgI-mfD_BwE

[Traffer]

What about those "snap it" noise makers the ones that look like a small wad of toilet paper with a tail twisted in the end , throw them against anything hard and they pop with a slight flash . Is the ingredients in those possibly usable ?
https://usamagictricks.com/bang-snaps-poppers-p-41228.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiqrQs7_x7QIVf4paBR3FQ AovEAQYAiABEgI-mfD_BwE

I seem to recall that those have "gravel" in them to act as frictionaters.

[MUSTANG]

What about those "snap it" noise makers the ones that look like a small wad of toilet paper with a tail twisted in the end , throw them against anything hard and they pop with a slight flash . Is the ingredients in those possibly usable ?
https://usamagictricks.com/bang-snaps-poppers-p-41228.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiqrQs7_x7QIVf4paBR3FQ AovEAQYAiABEgI-mfD_BwE

I believe they also contain "Flash Powder" in them which may not be desirable.

[RU shooter]

Yes they do very small pieces like coarse sand .

[perotter]

What about those "snap it" noise makers the ones that look like a small wad of toilet paper with a tail twisted in the end , throw them against anything hard and they pop with a slight flash . Is the ingredients in those possibly usable ?
https://usamagictricks.com/bang-snaps-poppers-p-41228.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiqrQs7_x7QIVf4paBR3FQ AovEAQYAiABEgI-mfD_BwE

Cheap enough to try out. Might want to put a bit of powder on top of the anvil.

But a fair warning to be aware of. The chemical(silver fulminate) used in them years ago was a very sensitive one. Much more than what is normally used in primers. But I'm not sure it is still used nor if it would be a problem.

[perotter]

I found the book online that goes into the details of using plates for primers. What they look like, sizes, detailed steps and times for each operation. For ones own use they wouldn't need to be this big. Also, info on compounds making.

https://ia800905.us.archive.org/21/items/GeorgeB.DmitrieffPoorMansPrimerManual/%20George_B._Dmitrieff%20_Poor_Man%27s_Primer_Manu al.pdf

[FreedomFighter45ACP]

I am so glad I found a thread to be able to post on. Has anyone on a previous but now closed thread had any luck with the chemical compounds a few of them was actually researching any testing I was curious about that...

I've been unloading shotgun primers I driven a couple drops acetone into them and then scraping the paste out can putting it in my 45acp primers and allowing it to dry then putting a piece of thermal receipt paper over the dry compound and then the Anvil on top of that and impressing them directly into cases and It has been working pretty well but now it's getting hard to find shotgun shells even.

I've seen me roll cap gun method and I am going to order some caps off the internet because I can't find any locally all the ones around here are those ring style caps and those things have almost nothing in them plus the compound I emptied out of the few that actually had anything in them that compound look pretty gritty.

Recently I've gotten my hands on a pretty good book titled the US Army improvised munitions handbook, and it explains in great detail how to make quite a few different explosives and incendiaries also it mentions how to reload primers with strike anywhere matches which I already knew but I'm pretty sure somewhere in here there is a recipe for how to make the Mercury fulminate but I was hoping somebody came up with something reliable that was not corrosive so far.

I just started delving into the subject some DIY primer compound that was non corrosive and I stumbled across the former thread on this forum or if you guys were testing different chemical compounds but I don't know if it went anywhere and I couldn't reply to that thread because it was closed now. I still have a lot to read in this improvised munitions handbook and if I find any thing that would be greatly useful I will definitely share what information I can if somebody is willing to try making me Mercury fulminate recipe that I found in this book I don't have a problem posting that I'm saving that as a test for later if I can't come up with anything non corrosive that's reliable...

good luck everybody that's going to be trying some of these tests and all that and good luck to people already testing different things hopefully this damn primer shortage get solved. but I don't see it being solved very quickly, because in times of shortages before this I do remember ammo companies we're opening small auxiliary plans to help catch up with the demand and then closing them back down when they did catch up, another crappy thing is since Soul pandemics going around foreign companies are able to bring in the amount of primers that we've seen in the past either which really freaking sucks! Hope everybody's being careful are research and carefully y'all have a good day I got a lot more reading to do

[perotter]

Go to the link in the first post of this thread and you'll find a pdf book there that will tell you how to make what you need for non-corrosive primer compound. There are better ones there than mercury fulminate.

Also they have been tested. The chemicals for some of the compounds are a bit hard to find/get, depending.

FWIW. If you live out side the US, there are compounds that can be made with chemicals available there. But the chemicals for them aren't really available in the US.

[Skipper]

I driven a couple drops acetone into them and then scraping the paste out

How in the world do you scrape the mix out through that tiny flash hole?

[perotter]

To your question about if anyone here has used any of the compound, I have tried a few different ones and they do work. Also, some that aren't in the 'books' that have worked.

IMO, one does have to be more focused to do primers than to reload ammo. FWIW.

[elmacgyver0]

I would think you would want to steer clear of mercury fulminate as it will destroy your brass.
From what I understand the non-corrosive formulas are pretty hazardous to produce.
Primer formulations that are less hazardless although corrosive are doable but you do need to be vigilant about cleaning your firearms.

[perotter]

I would think you would want to steer clear of mercury fulminate as it will destroy your brass.
From what I understand the non-corrosive formulas are pretty hazardous to produce.
Primer formulations that are less hazardless although corrosive are doable but you do need to be vigilant about cleaning your firearms.

When doing things in the safest manner, several non-corrosive formulas and methods are safer to do than the corrosive ones.

There is nothing that will explode until after the mix has dried in the cup. So really when safety is the top goal, non-corrosive is they way to go.

[0verkill]

When doing things in the safest manner, several non-corrosive formulas and methods are safer to do than the corrosive ones.

There is nothing that will explode until after the mix has dried in the cup. So really when safety is the top goal, non-corrosive is they way to go.

Such as?

[john.k]

Refer to US Pat #5538569./5567252. etc

[perotter]

Such as?

Those of hypophosphite for one. There are also others, but some are a bit expensive to get what's needed.

FWIW. It's also the easiest one for most to get what is needed to make non-corrosives from.

[Traffer]

There is a new primer reloading forum on MeWe Here:
https://mewe.com/group/5ffcbdeadbcef71f84e867ef
Or here:
https://mewe.com/join/primerreloading

[perotter]

Thanks for the link Traffer. Looks like it's an excellent and very active forum on this topic.

[Traffer]

Thanks for the link Traffer. Looks like it's an excellent and very active forum on this topic.

They would be very happy to see someone with your knowledge and expertise join in the on that forum. I think you could help them a lot.

[perotter]

They would be very happy to see someone with your knowledge and expertise join in the on that forum. I think you could help them a lot.

Thank you. I did join, but haven't posted. Name there is different than here.

I might be able to offer a bit on increasing the number made per hour, etc. I'm more of production engineer than a prototype person. I also do have some other compounds that work that are good candidates DIY. Also, personally I like the ones that little to nothing has to be purchased.

In all honesty I'd rather be working on DIY smokeless powder that I feel comfortable putting out to anyone interested. Having been laid up and unable to finish moving my shop, reloading area and lab for a few months I've had time to be able to find recent information that may allow anyone but a complete fool to be able to get a safe, give a satisfactory result and isn't corrosive. And at a cost of much less than any store bought powder and a long shelf live.

While I do think there are some holes in the current state of affairs in DIY primers(both compounds and making cups/anvils), given what Marshall has put out there I think the biggest DIY hole is now smokeless powder. After that of course making cartridge cases on a smaller scale but a higher scale than turning on a lathe.

[Traffer]

Thank you. I did join, but haven't posted. Name there is different than here.

I might be able to offer a bit on increasing the number made per hour, etc. I'm more of production engineer than a prototype person. I also do have some other compounds that work that are good candidates DIY. Also, personally I like the ones that little to nothing has to be purchased.

In all honesty I'd rather be working on DIY smokeless powder that I feel comfortable putting out to anyone interested. Having been laid up and unable to finish moving my shop, reloading area and lab for a few months I've had time to be able to find recent information that may allow anyone but a complete fool to be able to get a safe, give a satisfactory result and isn't corrosive. And at a cost of much less than any store bought powder and a long shelf live.

While I do think there are some holes in the current state of affairs in DIY primers(both compounds and making cups/anvils), given what Marshall has put out there I think the biggest DIY hole is now smokeless powder. After that of course making cartridge cases on a smaller scale but a higher scale than turning on a lathe.

Thanks for the reply. I have been curious about the drawing process for making primer cups and rimfire cartridges but lack any ability to make them. I do like to try and inspire others to join in on the collective work though.
I never even considered the ability to manufacture smokeless powder. I am chemistry illiterate but it would be fantastic if the ability were available.

[ofitg]

In all honesty I'd rather be working on DIY smokeless powder that I feel comfortable putting out to anyone interested. Having been laid up and unable to finish moving my shop, reloading area and lab for a few months I've had time to be able to find recent information that may allow anyone but a complete fool to be able to get a safe, give a satisfactory result and isn't corrosive. And at a cost of much less than any store bought powder and a long shelf live.



Perotter, I will second Traffer's motion - it would be fantastic to have that info available.

[perotter]

Making a smokeless powder that is based on ammonium nitrate is simple, but needs some chemicals to make it burn fast enough to work well in small arms. A version of this was used a bit early on in Russia for the Mosin rifle. But doesn't work well/last long humid climates. But will give modern fps. Also such a powder is the holy grail of propellants because of cost(etc) and is still worked on by large companies.

In fact it was a post about ammonium nitrate powder that first lead me to this forum and my 1st post was all the detail about what I'd made. That caused a bit of problem, but I really shouldn't say more about that.

As for NC powder, while I made 100 grains 10 years or so ago, the first problem is stabilizing it. Talking boiling in water several times for hours. But recently a Russian chemist came up with a way to quickly, inexpensively and simply 100% stabilize it. So that's solved as far as I know.

The next is getting or making nitric acid. Recently I found that the simple Ostwald process(made from just ammonia) can be done cheaply and inexpensively on a small scale at home. I knew is could be done with a catalytic converter from a car, but they aren't free and would be much bigger than I want for may use. Also allows for making other nitrates. So that is solved for me without having to buy things to make it.

Also I recently came across a new NC mixed with a nitrate that is smokeless, bulky and is of a lower pressure than most. That nitrate is simple to make or cheaply buy(currently). While it wouldn't give the fps in most cases that a normal purchased powder would, it would be fairly safe for most to use for loading without getting into trouble. But like each different lot of a surplus powder, each batch one makes would have to be tested in a few round before deciding how much to use.

As I currently have and can buy(inexpensively) raw NC I'm going to start with that before I make NC from scratch. But I need go get the rifle I use for pressure/pressure curve testing. Then I do some testing that isn't an estimate(guess) and get a faster thumps up or down.

This would be for a general public powder. Of course there are a few people I trust to use their head and will give other information to about 'full' power powders.

I'll pm you guys about as things happen. I really don't know a lot about chemistry and have little formal schooling in it. But I figure if a person can take a recipe for say cookies and get edible cookies, they can make smokeless powder.

[MrWolf]

Don't kid yourself. You may not have the credentials, but you have the brains and know how. Thanks for sharing with us not so smart folk. :drinks:
Ron

[dverna]

I used to Pooh-Pooh stuff like this. Easy to do when commercial products are easy to get, and not too expensive. I was lucky enough to prepare and build up a decent stockpile. Thus no "need".

I believe the current situation is likely to level out in the next year, but what if it doesn't? Most people do not have the money to buy at ridiculous prices. What if laws are passed that limit how much you can buy at one time or ban interstate transport?

Knowledge is power!!

Most people will be like me. We will follow with interest those who are forging the path and will take that path if we need to. We are either too lazy to do the work, or scared of working with stuff that can blow us up.

Age factors in as well. I am 70 and it is not too onerous to maintain a lifetime supply. Younger people have the double whammy of normally having less extra money to invest in preparedness and needing a much larger cache of stuff to last a lifetime. If I was in my thirties I would view the knowledge to produce powder and primers as a high priority. Our country is decaying and things will get worse...much worse...over the next 20-30 years.

[perotter]

Don't kid yourself. You may not have the credentials, but you have the brains and know how. Thanks for sharing with us not so smart folk. :drinks:
Ron

It's not that I'm so smart and likely you and a large number of people here could do it if they wanted. It's that I need to have projects that take a lot of thought and research. It's to old idle mind is the devils workshop, so I have some project always in the works. For me normal reloading was like that for a while until I got to the point where somewhat the same problem-different day.

Also I grew up around and interacted with the previous generation that seem to be able to do anything there was. Like need piston rings for an engine that parts aren't available for? No big deal, just make them. Points for an engine? Make them. Can't afford something, make it. And they were willing to apply for patents for various things they came up with that were more complicated. Kind of learned that these things were how one should go about life.

I'm old and have enough primers and powder to last me the rest of my life unless for some reason I decided to shot a lot more than I have for the last 10-15 years.

[perotter]

I used to Pooh-Pooh stuff like this. Easy to do when commercial products are easy to get, and not too expensive. I was lucky enough to prepare and build up a decent stockpile. Thus no "need".

I believe the current situation is likely to level out in the next year, but what if it doesn't? Most people do not have the money to buy at ridiculous prices. What if laws are passed that limit how much you can buy at one time or ban interstate transport?

Knowledge is power!!

Most people will be like me. We will follow with interest those who are forging the path and will take that path if we need to. We are either too lazy to do the work, or scared of working with stuff that can blow us up.

Age factors in as well. I am 70 and it is not too onerous to maintain a lifetime supply. Younger people have the double whammy of normally having less extra money to invest in preparedness and needing a much larger cache of stuff to last a lifetime. If I was in my thirties I would view the knowledge to produce powder and primers as a high priority. Our country is decaying and things will get worse...much worse...over the next 20-30 years.

Since I was a teen on and off I've done primers and some propellent just for fun. Showed a few people during the shortages of the 1990's how to do it. Twenty plus years ago I spent a bit of time on propellents. While I did do some smokeless to the point of being comfortable with the results, I mainly made and used many pounds white powder.

During the last shortage I happened across a guy who at a late age had bought his first gun and was only able to buy one box of ammo. So he decided to start reloading but couldn't get primers or powder. So I walked him thru how to do it. So being new to it all he really got into both shooting and DIY. We ended up being good friends.

So maybe somebody will find my having fun usable, maybe not.

I have a wide range of interests. There are many projects of others that I follow, but never pick up. But kind file away enough to know that it can be done and if need be I could do it and know the direction to take. For example, alternative fuels.

Something is out of whack world wide. For some years I've seen that people everywhere sense, but nobody can really say why it's world wide. Who really knows what will happen. Something like the Mayan or Bronze Age collapse?

By the way. I used up most of my supply of store bought powder before I started to use DIY smokeless exclusively.