store sold primers to Hornaday

[Battis]

I spoke with an employee at the Kittery Trading Post in Maine yesterday. Apparently they sold all of their primers to Hornaday. He did not get into the details.
As a frequent customer looking for primers, as so many customers are, that does not make good business sense. But, it's their business...

[Gewehr-Guy]

I wonder which company is their main primer supplier ? That is troubling news if they are that desperate for supplies to keep operating.
Perhaps they can get some imported, they are a big enough company to get some attention to their problem.

[jsizemore]

Kittery most likely makes more money selling ammo then primers. Saw some 8mag for sale at $85. 308, 270, 30-06 was half that. Folks come from Raleigh and form a line out in the street DAILY to buy the day's latest ammo. Some buy a gun just to get the ammo allocated to that gun. Spend more money for a gun, get more ammo.

I bet Kittery made a deal to be on Hornady's priority customer list. Now that's business sense.

[Battis]

They've been in business for a long time, so they must know what they're doing, but as far as the primers - they have very little ammo available (and they're limiting ammo sales to five boxes per customer in a 24 hr period), but they do have plenty of reloading presses for sale, and bullets, powder, brass, priming tools, case prep tools, etc, but no primers. And to tell a customer who is looking for primers that they sold them all to Hornaday...not good business.

[KCSO]

They need ammo more than primers, better mark up on ammo. Hornady needs to MAKE more ammo and are short of primers.

[NSB]

I wouldn’t believe everything I hear from clerks, etc working in stores. They like to act like they have top level info to impress people coming into the store. This is how mis-information (aka rumors and urban myths) gets started. It’s possible there may be some truth in it, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. Putting it out on here is the same thing the clerk was doing.

[Battis]

Yeah, OK, but it was a manager who told me. And putting it here is the same as...what?

[drizler]

I wouldn’t believe everything I hear from clerks, etc working in stores. They like to act like they have top level info to impress people coming into the store. This is how mis-information (aka rumors and urban myths) gets started. It’s possible there may be some truth in it, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. Putting it out on here is the same thing the clerk was doing.

Yea that’s true. Most likely there’s both truth and fallacy as with most things . I just see this as another offshoot of the whole flue mess. Shortages do things like this. There’s always a whole bunch of others affected that you wouldn’t even know of. When it gets tight these routine things start to compete with each other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Battis]

As noted, a store makes more money selling ammo than selling primers (and all of the reloading essentials - presses, brass, powder, etc), which probably means that they (the store) knows there are more factory ammo shooters than reloaders. In that sense, I stand corrected - it was good business selling the primers to Hornaday. But, I don't see how my telling this propagates some sort of urban legend or myth. I mean, it was a store manager who told me, not some guy in a trench coat on a Grassy Knoll. It might offer some insight into why there's a primer shortage.

[derek45]

I don't believe it

[10x]

I wouldn’t believe everything I hear from clerks, etc working in stores. They like to act like they have top level info to impress people coming into the store. This is how mis-information (aka rumors and urban myths) gets started. It’s possible there may be some truth in it, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. Putting it out on here is the same thing the clerk was doing.

Understated!!
Gun store sales personal sometimes are a bit like used car salesmen. Not that reliable with the information they impart.

[waksupi]

I doubt the story. Whatever they may have had left in stock wouldn't be worth turning on the machine at Hornady.

[snowwolfe]

Bs....

[10x]

Yeah, OK, but it was a manager who told me. And putting it here is the same as...what?

Putting it here is advertising for them

Every one who reads this thread now knows about the Kittery Trading Post in Maine and just may see what they do have in stock.

And after checking their website, they have pretty good prices, except on the Carcano..

[Battis]

Alrighty then. I should have checked with Jason Vanderbrink before spreading that baseless myth.
KTP does have good prices when they have stock. But, what good are their prices to someone in, say, Alberta?
That Carcano is in good shape. So is the Egyptian .43 RB.

[10x]

Alrighty then. I should have checked with Jason Vanderbrink before spreading that baseless myth.
KTP does have good prices when they have stock. But, what good are their prices to someone in, say, Alberta?
That Carcano is in good shape. So is the Egyptian .43 RB.

I have 3 carcano's 2 were given to me, one I bought for $30 all were in very good shape.
A 43 Egyptian Rolling block is an antique here and is quite valuable as it is considered antique and exempt from regulation
US prices give us a baseline for prices - buying and selling.

[downzero]

You believe a gun store in Maine sold primers to Hornady in Nebraska? Or is "Hornaday" some other company?

[Outpost75]

Russian planted disinformation!
273812

[Battis]

I believe that it's possible that Hornaday is buying up all the primers they can, all over the country. I doubt that the store in Maine called Hornaday and offered what primers they had - more likely, Hornaday picked up their phone and called Maine and everywhere else they could think of calling. Makes sense to me, and, the store manager told me.
Back to the Carcano - I bought one a few years ago for about $100.00. It was an actual wall hanger. But, I got it up and running. Not an everyday shooter, but interesting. That one in Maine looks really good.
The Egyptian .43 RB they have is in great shape. It's an antique but, because it uses self contained cartridges, KTP will run a background check on the buyer. It's no big deal to me - just their policy. And, they won't ship outside the US.
I'd get it but the price of the dies and brass concerns me.

[Geezer in NH]

I do not buy it. Been shopping at KTP for 40 years or more never met a knowledgeable counter person or manager. Plus I doubt that Hornady would be buying Tax paid primers as that is all KTP sells.

KTP was pretty good when they were Shawmut distributors, but they went down hill from there. At least the folks at Shawmut knew the factory reps.

[country gent]

I doubt that those 100 round packs could even be opened fast enough to keep up with Hornadies production machines LOL.

[Battis]

All good points. So, I'm back to my original thought - it was bad business telling a customer a tall tale.
I will say, I've done well at KTP over the years. They used to allow you to put a gun on hold (free) for 7 days, which worked out well as far as researching the gun. That way, I didn't need the advice of a knowledgeable (?) salesperson before buying the gun. I'd just check here for advice, tips, etc before I bought one. That's not sarcasm - it's true. I did it alot. But they ended that hold policy.

[Winger Ed.]

Sounds doubtful.
An ammo plant contracts with the manufacturer for raw materials months in advance.
When their primers are delivered- they will be moving them around with pallet jacks and a forklift.

However much a store had wouldn't rise to the level of toll road change to Hornady.

[Shawlerbrook]

I also am skeptical, but in 2020 nothing would surprise me anymore. Maybe the clerk meant former NASCAR driver Ron Hornaday.

[M-Tecs]

Hornaday putting primers into their ammo after this been outside of the chain of custody control is highly suspect. Hornady does not make primers so it is likely they seat fully cured primers but companies like Federal seat the primers when the compound is still wet.

I am sure Hornady contracts with there primer supplier and they will be on the top of the list for delivery priorities. Also cost would be a factor. Hornaday's contract will be way way less than a retail story purchasing low volume though a supplier.

I believe in unicorns more than I believe this one.

[jrayborn]

Ha ha, the last time I was there, I had to teach the the counter person what the ACP in .45ACP stood for. Those guys are not gun-folk, it's just the way they feed their family.

[Martin Luber]

At least they're not Dick's.....

[Blanket]

If you believe this just ask Santa for what you need

[jrayborn]

At least they're not Dick's.....

Oh trust me, in their own way, they most certainly are.

[JSnover]

Sorry to hear about the weirdness at Kittery. I made the pilgrimage a few times when I was living up there and it seemed like a pretty good shop.
This is the second time I've heard the primer buyback story and it makes absolutely no sense. If they were looking for a certain lot number that would make sense but they wouldn't buy back a run of bad primers, they'd just issue a recall.

[bedbugbilly]

I called my neighbor the other day to ask him to drop off a couple dozen eggs - his chickens lay the best eggs and I haven't been able to find any that taste as good. Anyway . . . the neighbor said he couldn't drop any off and he didn't have any.I asked him if something happened to his chickens and he said, "Naw . . . i sold everything I had to the Easter Bunny".

[snowwolfe]

Now I am curious, does Hornady even make primers?

[SSGOldfart]

Now I am curious, does Hornady even make primers?

Well who invest billions to make half of a product? They don't sell primers on the open market,but they have to make them but now days one never knows[smilie=s:

[Battis]

Santa, Easter Bunny...all funny stuff. But, what if...That would be funny if the story were true, but I doubt there'd be any retractions.
Then again, I really don't care. Just passing on some info.
As far as the salespeople at KTP, or anywhere - car dealership, hardware store, Walmart, whatever - it's the product I'm interested in, not who is selling it. Which is the exact same argument I made, and make, to Trump haters. Do you like what he's selling? Yeah, but I don't like him.
KTP has good guns and I don't gave a rat's **** who sells it to me.

[Battis]

Can anyone ID this gun? I bought it at a gun store for $790 a few years ago. I knew what it was, but apparently whoever took it in trade at the store and put that price on it didn't know. I had it appraised a few weeks later by James Julia in Maine. Their estimate - $5,000.00. They wanted to sell it on their auction. I kept the gun.
It's a Remington-Beals .36, factory engraved.
But, dang, I wish that salesperson at the store had been more knowledgeable.

[jrayborn]

Can anyone ID this gun? I bought it at a gun store for $790 a few years ago. I knew what it was, but apparently whoever took it in trade at the store and put that price on it didn't know. I had it appraised a few weeks later by James Julia in Maine. Their estimate - $5,000.00. They wanted to sell it on their auction. I kept the gun.
It's a Remington-Beals .36, factory engraved.
But, dang, I wish that salesperson at the store had been more knowledgeable.

Thanks for making my point.

[Battis]

No problem, but did you get my point?

[derek45]

training documentary for salesmen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REa2DDzChGM

[Plate plinker]

Now I am curious, does Hornady even make primers?

I was thinking the same thing. Seems that Hornady would want to make their own and they could also sell those in the side when the market was right for it.

[Eddie Southgate]

No problem, but did you get my point?

It can pay to know more than the folks you are buying from . Some time that gets upside down on you though and you end up dealing with the idiot with a $700 gun that is just absolutely certain that it is a $5000 gun .

[Battis]

If you buy a gun, new or old (especially old) without doing research on it beforehand, and you rely completely on the advice and knowledge of the salesperson, maybe you should think about another hobby.

[dverna]

My "gut" tells me Hornady does not make primers. It would be foolish to set up a facility to only supply their needs for ammunition. Primer operations are very expensive and not easy to get approval for. But maybe Hornady has government munitions contracts to justify it?

As to them buying primers from a store....I suppose it is possible. Shouldn't be too difficult to sort Winchester, Remington, CCI, and Federal boxes; and then sort by type. So simple a Caveman can do it.

[MaryB]

More like they had an order diverted to Hornady to make ammo, it never reached the store or warehouse. Primer company might have a contract clause they can divert product to their biggest customers without warning.

[AlHunt]

I can't see a giant manufacturer using retail packaged primers or ones that have been outside their supply chain. I could see a smaller remanufacturer using them.

KTP is a large retailer so they could have a very large stock of, well, about anything on hand.

All that said, selling primers out from under their retail customers would be a disappointing move. Us mere mortals will never know.

[tomme boy]

Ever watch how someone is told something and to pass it on? Each time it is told the story changes. So I am going to say that The original story was Joe Biden did not steal the election!

[Battis]

OK, then where are the primers? Pass it on...

[M-Tecs]

OK, then where are the primers? Pass it on...

Same place as all the currently non-available reloading supplies. That includes brass, bullets, powder and even presses. Primers are no different.

[Blanket]

plenty of primers on Gun Broker

[country gent]

To give an idea in a different industry of how fast and how many. At Campbells soups they may be running up to 21 fillers (machine that puts the soup into the cans) at 1000 cans a minute per line, There are normally 3-4 kettles to a filler at 600 gallons a kettle that lasts about 10-15 mins at this rate. all the ingredients are fed into kettles from 55 gallon stainless steel drums or buckets. Hydraulically dumped. When it comes to production lines its amazing what goes on. Ive seen stamping presses running from 3-4 strokes a min on large heavy parts to 1500 a min on small light simple parts. The new when I was still there can line was running at 6000 cans a minute and they only used one can end instead of 2.
Im pretty sure the ammo makers are in the same class to speed.

[Battis]

If I were a betting man, I'd say that MaryB has the best answer.

[Idaho45guy]

How many people in this thread told shooters who couldn't find ammo back in February and March to just start reloading?

I cringed every time I saw that suggested because I knew that this would be the result. I saw it dozens of times on various gun forums. The last thing we needed, was tens of thousands of new reloaders across the country gobbling up components.

This is why we can't have nice things...

[dverna]

How many people in this thread told shooters who couldn't find ammo back in February and March to just start reloading?

I cringed every time I saw that suggested because I knew that this would be the result. I saw it dozens of times on various gun forums. The last thing we needed, was tens of thousands of new reloaders across the country gobbling up components.

This is why we can't have nice things...

I doubt it. Few people heed advice to reload in my experience.

It is reloaders who were too poor or too stupid to have a decent inventory of components who have and continue to cause the problem. And the ones who were too poor are not going to have much impact as they are “tapped out”. Leaves only the stupid ones....I guess.

From what I have read on this forum, there are only a handful of new reloaders here....and none of them are buying thousands of primers.

This weekend, I will be selling 30k primers to guys who should have been prepared but were not. That would have helped about 30 new reloaders, but they are going to two guys who want them and are willing to pay more than $35/1000. I would like to help out a new guy with a few hundred primers but it is not worth the hassle. Primers cannot be shipped legally and it is illegal to receive cases, prime them and return them....I checked into that.

[M-Tecs]

Try purchasing a Dillon press and tell me again that lots of people haven't picked up loading since all of this started.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/

ORDER SHIPMENTS EFFECTED
SHIPPING & PROCESSING TIME DELAYS
Extreme order volume has extended our order processing time to one week. Delivery of backordered items may take 8-12 weeks,some more. We update our backlog weekly - you may check status HERE. We apologize for the delays and appreciate your understanding and patience as we do our best to fulfill your order in these challenging times. We value your business and Thank You for being a Dillon Precision customer.

[monadnock#5]

Basically it's the same excuse we've all gotten since the summer. "You can't have any because the cartridge manufacturers took them all".

[FLINTNFIRE]

How many people in this thread told shooters who couldn't find ammo back in February and March to just start reloading?

I cringed every time I saw that suggested because I knew that this would be the result. I saw it dozens of times on various gun forums. The last thing we needed, was tens of thousands of new reloaders across the country gobbling up components.

This is why we can't have nice things...

I see what you are saying , but I disagree , we need new reloaders , even gobbling up supplies , it is what all reloaders before this should have been doing , stocking up , loading enough to shoot ahead of time , casting now with electric pots and coating or lubing as there will not be time if it is needed later .

I doubt the amount of primers that outlet had could make a fleas fart in a hurricane , Hornady does not have to seek out stuff like you or I or that retail outlet . No assembly line like the ammo manufactures run would notice a stores amount , as to the pistol in your post , that bears no relevance to you original post , rumors , stories , wives tales , once upon a time there was a manufacturing plant and they gobbled up all the primers to keep there operations running for 30 seconds .

[Battis]

as to the pistol in your post , that bears no relevance to you original post

I can see how its relevance might have been lost if the posts were not read, or if reading comprehension is limited. I'm guessing that I'll probably have to explain that also.
It's my thread, and I'll change its direction in response to comments as I see fit, within the limits and rules of the forum, of course.

[OS OK]

hahaaa . . . amusing how we all get so spun-up on some little detail of a post...

In fact, prolly the reality of this story is that it's merely a 'cover-up' for the store Manager who bought all the primers and now has them for sale out there in cyberspace somewhere for $300/brick!
hahaaa...chew on that angle for a while boys.

https://i.imgur.com/qTkhY8m.jpg

GeorgiaBoy44 posted this on TheReloadersNetwork.com the other day...there's no end to man's greed!

[Shawlerbrook]

Agreed ! MaryB’s explanation sounds like the best theory. Supplier tells KTP that their primer supply was diverted to Hornady to make ammo.

[Ed K]

More like they had an order diverted to Hornady to make ammo, it never reached the store or warehouse. Primer company might have a contract clause they can divert product to their biggest customers without warning.

...and the KTP employee is saying "KTP sold primers to Hornady" when the facts are "KTP's primers got sold to Hornady".

[dverna]

Try purchasing a Dillon press and tell me again that lots of people haven't picked up loading since all of this started.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/

ORDER SHIPMENTS EFFECTED
SHIPPING & PROCESSING TIME DELAYS
Extreme order volume has extended our order processing time to one week. Delivery of backordered items may take 8-12 weeks,some more. We update our backlog weekly - you may check status HERE. We apologize for the delays and appreciate your understanding and patience as we do our best to fulfill your order in these challenging times. We value your business and Thank You for being a Dillon Precision customer.

Without knowing more about Dillon's sales it is difficult to evaluate. Do they produce and sell 5,000 a month, 50,000 a month? Is the back log 50,000 presses or 500,000? I don't see many "new" reloaders stepping up to buy a Dillon as their first machine. Backlogs can result from other factors than an increase in sales.

IMO the spike is being caused by current reloaders who were ill prepared and have gone into panic mode. Same as every other "shortage". Look at how few new reloaders are on this site. Check out the Tumbleweed Christmas thread.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I see a lack of comprehension of reality and the supply side of manufacturing , plain and simple rumor and myth and passed on the web as fact , simple minded same as the last panics rumors on 22 ammo , this is why there are videos out there from the manufacturing side to dispel the gossip on the internet .

[bedbugbilly]

OP – I apologize for the Easter Bunny story . . . perhaps I should have just posted, “what difference does it make?”. I’m guessing you are a bit disappointed that you couldn’t buy any primers, but I don’t understand the reasoning for the remarks about being a dedicated customer and their business practices – to what purpose does that really serve? They are a business trying to stay afloat during the difficult times that ALL businesses are having. They have overhead and employees to pay and while they try to keep their doors open. An “employee” told you . . . how “reliable” of an employee? And after dealing with the generally public and probably having to answer the question of “why no primers” for the 5,000th time . . . probably there are numerous things told by “employees” in order to not have to give an answer.

It’s kind of like a person sitting in the back pew of the church leaning over and whispering into the ear of the person sitting next to them, “Did you hear so and so is pregnant!?” (let’s say it’s a popular high school girl in the small community). By the time it is whispered into the ear of every one sitting in the pews and it gets to the last person, the supposed father of the baby has been claimed to be the local bartender, a local teacher, a local undertaker, etc. until the last one named is the Preacher preaching the sermon. In the end, no one really knows who the father of the baby is and what difference does it make? The girl is still going to have a baby.

There is a shortage of everything – think not? – check and see what Lee molds are now selling for on fleabay or the available of used reloading presses or any other reloading necessity. Nobody asked for the present the Chinese gave the world but as a result of it, there are shortages of more than just reloading components because of plants being shut down and the natural human response of buying more than they need when they have the opportunity to. We went through shortages thanks to the Obama / Biden administration and we also saw hoarding during those times as well.

In the end, there are many reasons for the shortages of things and more than likely, there are a great many of us who are short on one thing or another when it comes to reloading components as well as many who are sitting good for the time being. With the added political situation and the high quantities of guns that have been sold, why wouldn’t there be a shortage of ammunition and who can blame folks for wanting to get into reloading – all of which add to the shortages. But for those that want to complain about new ones wanting to get into reloading – look in the mirror and ask youself why you wanted to get in to reloading – whether it was years ago or a month ago.

Is the story you are spreading true or not? Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t, but if it is, it concerns two companies trying to keep going during hard times and it is between those two companies and nobody else’s business but theirs. Is what the employee said true or not? Doesn’t really matter as they should never have made a comment one way or the other as it is between their employer and Hornady and is none of their business either – be it true or not.

Once rumors are spread, it’s a little hard to take back what has been said . . . or in this case . . . what has been posted concerning the two companies that you mentioned. And just like the rumors passed on in church about the pregnant girl about what should be between her and the father of the baby and nobody else’s business, her reputation will be damaged by those who have no idea of what the true story is.

[M-Tecs]

Without knowing more about Dillon's sales it is difficult to evaluate. Do they produce and sell 5,000 a month, 50,000 a month? Is the back log 50,000 presses or 500,000? I don't see many "new" reloaders stepping up to buy a Dillon as their first machine. Backlogs can result from other factors than an increase in sales.

IMO the spike is being caused by current reloaders who were ill prepared and have gone into panic mode. Same as every other "shortage". Look at how few new reloaders are on this site. Check out the Tumbleweed Christmas thread.

This is a castboolit site. Type "reloading forum" into Google and this sites doesn't appear until 4 pages in. I do agree most new shooter don't start casting right away. As a matter of fact most reloaders never take up casting. Though the years I have help many people get into reloading. Never kept track of how many but 60 to 80 would be realistic. Of that total only one person has taken up casting that I am aware of. Most of them have been people that started shooting competitively and yes their first press was a progressive.

More relevant is a conversation that I had with John Walton of Gunstop Reloading Supply years ago. https://www.gunstop.com/news/the-pressing-question-for-first-timers-what-kind-of-press-to-get/

Per John over half of the new reloaders were going with progressive presses as their first press. Not sure how long he's been in business but I have been purchasing from him since the late 80's.

[john.k]

Seems to me ,this year hoarding and talking about hoarding has become the main subject of conversation....I suspect the last time hoarding was discussed in government circles was 1940.......there were laws against it then.....but not now......As to new shooter reloading......the answer I always get is either they have no space in an apartment,or why spend money to make ammo for what they can buy it for ready made....(True)........And ,why do I need a thousand rounds of ammo for self defence......I would have thought six (revolver) or 10 were quite sufficient.....And any thought of confronting law enforcement is just crazy,yet I see it mentioned time and again on forums.

[dale2242]

I recently talked to a inexperienced reloader..
He said he started a few years ago.
His first press was a SS.
After loading for a short time he decided he needed more production so he bought a progressive.
HE soon realized that to use the progressive he needed more experience on the SS.
Actually, he said he just needed more reloading experience.
Hopefully people new to reloading will realize that reloading is more than just pulling the handle.