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Whole Bunches
12-16-2020, 08:56 PM
Bought a M1879 Argentine RB in 43 Spanish. Other than a few spots of corrosion in the first couple of inches forward of the chamber, the bore is bright and sharp. Ordered some custom ammo from a Gun Broker seller so I'd at least have that brass (brass has a JBA headstamp and looks real nice). Have other brass on back order. Figured if the custom ammo worked well, I could duplicate it. As best I could measure, the groove diameter of my bore is .442"

Custom ammo: 27.0gr 5744, bullets .439" with some type of dark grey slick coating on them (PC?) and no visible lube in the grooves. Per my thumbnail, the bullets were not soft. Bullets seated to crimp groove.

1st 5 shot group not bad, but not great. Next 5 shots worse. Next 5 more worse. Next 5 even more worse. Run patch down bore and look. Bore leaded up, especially the first 8" or so from the chamber. Using Chore Boy pure copper pad strands (hard to find, I finally order them via amazon) wrapped around bore brush, I finally got the lead out. Polished bore with fine to extra fine to super fine polish. Bore shines more and the spots of corrosion look better, but still can be seen if you take more than a quick glance.

From reading old posts on the forum, it seems there could be 3 problems, so I decide to tackle them at the same time: 1) Bullets too hard. 2) Bullets too small. 3) Lube insufficient.


As-cast, my Lyman 439186 comes out at .443" at the widest point. Order a custom .443" sizing/lube die from BA to basically just lube them. I've been successfully casting for my Danish RB in 11.7x51R using the Lee hollow base 405gr mould. My Danish RB has a groove diameter of .462". I pan lube the Danish bullets which leaves them at .462", and I use 25 lead to 1 tin so they're on the softer side. Nice accuracy and no leading in hundreds of rounds fired (Danish has essentially a perfect bore).

Cast the 439186 using my 25/1 alloy that works good in the Danish. Run through .443" lube die (easy as there is little to no sizing being done). Old fashioned, I like and use NRA type 50/50 lube. First test is simply does the bore still lead up and only loaded 5 rounds. I used what I felt was a light charge of 11.0gr Unique. Might as well get the bullet nearer the rifling, so I make the oal 3.15". My roller easily chambered the fatter bullets. 5 shots and NO LEADING...I am happy. Bonus: the accuracy is MUCH MUCH better than the custom ammo, as in converted to approximate a 100yd group (I was shooting closer to accommodate my old eyes) it was 1.45" and the windage was right on. I had fully intended to go in future groups higher in charge weight and use other powders, such as 5744 until I found an accurate load, but decided to reload my 20 empties with the same 11.0gr Unique and shoot some more due to the nice accuracy shown with the one 5 shot group. The load felt mild, certainly not with the thump the custom loads had (maker said they give 1300fps); have not choreographed my load yet; guessing between 1000 and 1100fps. Today fired the 20 rounds of my load. Could not see any leading and hit the targets...I'm really happy.

Loaded up 20 more of the same load. Did find that after 3 firings that the brass needed a minor neck resizing (looked like the Lee sizing die sized down about 1/16" from the case mouth; decapping pin didn't even punch the fired primer out) to better hold the bullet. Deprimed with Lee decapping die. Had bought RCBS #22 shell holder as the Lee one is suppose to be too tight for some Spanish brass, but the JBA brass fit in the Lee holder just fine...oh well, leave one holder in the press and the other in my priming tool.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I've learned so much from this forum, and I thank you all. Hope my story helps a future 43 Spanish reloader.

marlinman93
12-17-2020, 12:15 PM
My bet is bullets too small, and not enough lube. An inspection of the crown will tell you if there's no lube star there's not enough lube. But considering you already know you've got a .439" bullet in a .442" groove, it will result in leading, which got worse with each shot.
So the answer is to use your mold of .443" diameter, and reload with a proper sized bullet, and good lube. Sounds like you're on track to making it a great shooter!

Der Gebirgsjager
12-17-2020, 01:16 PM
What is the grain weight of the bullet you are using?

DG

Drm50
12-17-2020, 01:32 PM
I had a 43 Spanish a few years ago. My dad bought it at estate auction advertised as 45/70. Good news was it was best bore I’ve ever seen. Barrel was full of grease, solid. Bought Rapine mold and loaded it with Unique. Rifle shot well, only shot target never hunted with it. Sold my brass and mold on forum couple years ago. I would have Bullet weight and powder charges in my notes.

trails4u
12-17-2020, 01:54 PM
RCBS 44-370 is a .446 bullet. I've used these to good effect in the same rifle.

Whole Bunches
12-17-2020, 03:37 PM
What is the grain weight of the bullet you are using?

DG

Mine are coming out at 373gr with my alloy. It may not be exactly 25/1, but is close. 6oz 63% tin and 37% lead solder mixed with 5lb lead.

Der Gebirgsjager
12-17-2020, 04:04 PM
Thanks, Whole Bunches. I also have one of the Argie RBs, a carbine, and loaded up some Track of the Wolf brass with 350 gr. over some Trail Boss. I was just wondering how much lead was being pushed with 11 gr. of Unique.

DG

Whole Bunches
12-17-2020, 05:21 PM
Just went out in the yard and chronographed 3 shots. It's cold here in Florida at 40 degrees, and I had to tip the rifle down to have bullets go into the ground (at the range the rifle would have been held level). Rifle and ammo were at the same temp. Averaged 953.4 fps. No wonder the recoil is mild. Did get some soot on the case neck; normally there is none. So far it's fun to shoot, and rather relaxing with the slow pace of fire and your hands "having something to do" to run the RB mechanism.

Note: I shot in the yard. All neighbors shoot. One neighbor has a 200yd range that I have complete access to with the combination to their gate, but for quick testing just use the yard and let the spouse know.

koger
12-17-2020, 10:19 PM
Great read, thanks for taking us along

marlinman93
12-18-2020, 11:46 AM
I've got a .44-77SBN Sporting Roller which is similar size case to your .43 Spanish. I use two different bullets, and they're almost 100 grain difference. One is an old Lee hollowbase mold that drops just over 290 grs. and works very well. The other is a heavier solid base 370 gr. round nose that works better for long range shooting.
my old Roller has a very heavy full octagon 34" barrel, and single set trigger. I shoot mostly around 1350 fps loads, and it's extremely mild recoil in this heavy rifle.

single shot jimmy
12-19-2020, 09:03 PM
Most excellent. I rarely shoot my 43 spanish and should get it out more.

brstevns
12-19-2020, 10:10 PM
Besides the Lyman mold made for the 43 Spanish, I have been using the Lee 45cal Minie sized down to .440 for the bore of my Argentine RB. I PC them and load them over 12gr Unique. Getting 2 inches at 100 yards with this load.
I do have a scope on mine because of my 70-year-old eyes.

Whole Bunches
12-19-2020, 11:36 PM
Besides the Lyman mold made for the 43 Spanish, I have been using the Lee 45cal Minie sized down to .440 for the bore of my Argentine RB. I PC them and load them over 12gr Unique. Getting 2 inches at 100 yards with this load.
I do have a scope on mine because of my 70-year-old eyes.

Is that the Lee 450-294M?

brstevns
12-20-2020, 11:44 AM
Is that the Lee 450-294M?

Yes, that is the Lee Mold

Mk42gunner
12-20-2020, 07:45 PM
I need to dig my 1879 Argentine out and play with it some more.

Things I found sixteen or seventeen years ago when I first got mine:

RCBS shell holder worked a lot better than the Lee (I broke three or four of the Lee's). Maybe it was a bad batch, I bought most of the Lee's at the same gunshop.

Rapine made a neat DC mold for the .43 Spanish, if you can find one.

The Lyman top punch for the 439186 would not allow the boolit to fit in my RCBS Lubamatic without modification.

Don't believe the old story that it is easy to make .43 Spanish brass from .348 Winchester brass. You can, but it isn't easy.

Robert