What Alloy

[ag92]

New guy here so please be gentle. I've spent the last 2 days reading everything I can about alloying pure lead and I'm afraid I've confused myself worse than I was when I started. Here's the deal, I've got about 300# of lead and I'm looking at what alloy from Rotometals I can add to it and in what ratios to cast 44 spl(<1000fps), 44 mag(>1000fps),
30-30(<1200fps), and 30-30(>1800fps). Does such a critter exist?

[gwpercle]

This is the simple formula with tin and lead ratio's given in parts .
Handgun Boolits - from Elmer Keith's 1936 book " Sixgun Cartridges & Loads "
Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting .

1 part tin / 20 parts lead (1 / 20) - For most revolver cartridges including all light and normal pressure loads . Up to 1,000 fps.

1 part tin / 15 (or 16) parts lead (1 / 15 or 1 / 16) Both ratio's have been used - For heavy loads over 1,000 fps .

1 part tin to 10 parts lead (1 / 10) For auto pistol bullets and for heavy revolver loads where maximum penetration is desired .

Now this is for handgun boolits and a very simple way ... Keith was like me ...liked things simple and easy . I've seen this subject get extremely and overly complicated , but it doesn't have to be .

30-30 at 1200 fps - use 1 / 15 or 1 / 16 and use a boolit with a gas check.

30-30 at +1800 fps - use 1 / 10 and use a boolit with a gas check

Gas check's just make life easier . I air cool all my boolits and lube with lithium-beeswax lube .

For 30-30 rifle and most regular pressure handgun boolits I use a 50 / 50 blend of Clip on wheel-weight metal and soft scrap lead . This is a very versatile alloy ...
I had a decent supply of COWW but my supplier retired from the Tire Business and I have to stretch it ...the 50 / 50 mix is actually better than straight COWW for boolits.

You have Lead so all you need is Tin or COWW metal and you should be in business !
Another tip : boolit fit beats boolit hardness , measure bores and size +.001 or .002 . Small hard boolits lead like the devil .
Keep it simple ,
Gary
Just noticed ...your first post ... Welcome to the addiction from Baton Rouge Louisiana !

[Bazoo]

Wheel weight alloy works well for me in full power loads. Lyman number 2 cut 50/50 with pure would be similar and slightly richer in tin.

[dbosman]

As for tin, chase pewter before purchasing pure tin. There are several, and one long thread on identifying pewter. Simple answer - is if it isn't hallmarked (stamped) pewter, pass on it. Food service pewter is still readily available at thrift stores. Going rate varies, but pewter is available at well under $10 per pound.

[JM7.7x58]

Is your lead pure?

If all 300 pounds is pure. Then buy 6 pounds of tin, and 30 pounds of Superhard. You will end up with something close to 95 PB/ 2 SN/ 3 SB. It will do everything you need.

JM

P.s. I use scavenged pewter in place of tin.

[ag92]

Yes the lead is pure. I like the idea of keeping things simple by just varying the amount of lead added. What would be the approximate hardness of 20/1, 15/1, and 10/1? What about the other ratios listed above? I’ve used some extremely hard commercial cast bullets before and experienced some pretty bad leading. I think/hope by casting my own, I can customize the diameter and the hardness and hopefully minimize the leading.

[JM7.7x58]

Read this:

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Then decide if you want a lead/tin allloy or if you want a lead/tin/antimony alloy.

JM

[Lloyd Smale]

i would never use tin to get hardness. Its way to expensive for that. You could easily trade a lb of it for 3 lbs of type metal or 5 to 1 or more to swap it for wws. that has lots of antimony for hardness and alloying it with your pure still has more then enough tin for bullet fillout. The 20 to 1 and 30 to 1 that guys like Elmer keith used was used because back then wws were scarce and printers still used there linotype. You have your pure. Start hitting the tire shops or buying some wheel weight here. For a 1000 fps you can get away with 5050 ww/pure. Even less ww if your powder coating but your best accuracy is going to come from the hardest alloy you can put together even at low pressures. But to roll beer cans at the range 5050 ww/pure works great. Or a mix of 8lbs of pure and 2lbs of linotype. Another big advantage to getting your hardness for ww's or lino is you can then water drop your bullets and get harder yet for free. Tin wont harden by water dropping.

[richhodg66]

i would never use tin to get hardness. Its way to expensive for that. You could easily trade a lb of it for 3 lbs of type metal or 5 to 1 or more to swap it for wws. that has lots of antimony for hardness and alloying it with your pure still has more then enough tin for bullet fillout. The 20 to 1 and 30 to 1 that guys like Elmer keith used was used because back then wws were scarce and printers still used there linotype. You have your pure. Start hitting the tire shops or buying some wheel weight here. For a 1000 fps you can get away with 5050 ww/pure. Even less ww if your powder coating but your best accuracy is going to come from the hardest alloy you can put together even at low pressures. But to roll beer cans at the range 5050 ww/pure works great. Or a mix of 8lbs of pure and 2lbs of linotype. Another big advantage to getting your hardness for ww's or lino is you can then water drop your bullets and get harder yet for free. Tin wont harden by water dropping.

Agreed, tin helps fill out, so good in that regard, but expensive and inefficient for hardening.

For most pistol bullets, you really don't need it very hard anyway. Make sure they're big enough and lubed right and you probably won;t have any problems.

[Rcmaveric]

Welcome. We are gentle with noobs here and no question is dumb. Even if we have answered hundred of times.

If what I gather is correct you have 300 lbs of pure.

I agree with above statements. I wouldn't buy tin and use that. You would go broke quick. Tin is expensive now. You could order some superhard from roto metals or get some wheel weights. I use BHN for reference as I could care less whats in my lead. Everyone is defferent.

Here is my general hardness rules and use:

Bhn 6 (pure lead) = muzzle loader, 12g slugs and anything around 850 fps. Give or take.

Bhn 10 (range scraps or 50/50 pure to coww) = general purpose alloy for pistols and ) light riffle in the 1000 to 1400 fps. Can be heat treated if needed for increased BHN.

Bhn 12 (coww) = general riffle work. I have taken it up to 2050 fps with out issues.

These are just general rules and sometimes get broken. I use these as starting points when casting a new bullet for the first time for a gun or cartridge. I will heat treat during load works to see if the BHN will change anything.

I use a Lee hardness tester and a simple mixing cross to get my desired hardness. My lead is organized by source.

Most often I use RS for all my pistols and light riffle work. I use COWW for the target and hunting end.

My opinion on tin:
If you pulling out your hair trying to get good bullets. Crank up the heat and cast faster. If your still having issues toss in 2% or tap the mold on a board. I rarely add tin. I am broke and can't salvage.

My thoughts on alloy content:
Dont focus on that and it's a rabbit hole. Get results and good targets first. Once you have a stock pile of lead and ingredients then experiment and see what you like. A beautiful ternary alloy is a dream to cast with. Add a hint of copper for toughness for performance. But its expensive to make and not always practical. I wouldn't waste that on 9mm.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[popper]

Sb adds hardness, Sn adds malleability (Allows expansion on target). Tin is expensive! So it depends on desired use (hunting/paper). Also depends on velocity(pressure) and use of GC. I have shot (30/30 GC ~1400 fps) 1% SB with decent accuracy and no leading. Same alloy in 40sw was terrible. For moderate fps I use 2% Sb in pistol or rifle and go to 3-4% Sb for HV (>1800). I add superhard from Roto (cast the SH into bullets that I add as needed). Alloy is only part of the game, size and lube the other part of the equation and that takes experimentation. My lube is either LLA/BLL or PC - easy/cheap/works. I use Lee push thru sizers and soft alloy comes out smaller than harder alloy. Fast powders apply higher pressure for a short time, slow powders apply lower pressure for a longer time. Soft bullets like to be pushed rather than hammered out of the barrel.
For your 30/30 low fps use 2400, high - H4895/335.
Summary, assume you lead is pure, add to get 2% Sb and play with size (probably 310-311 30/30) and lube. Harder alloy? Just drop from mould into ice water. I have pushed PB to jacketed fps (2100) but don't try it. Sn makes nice pretty bullets and hides a lot of casting errors. Add it only if you need expansion for hunting. I only hunt hogs and don't need it.
Lots of good opinions but above will get you results quickly.

[ABJ]

JM in post #5 nailed it. I like my tin to be at least 1.5% mim. and up to 2 or a little over for hunting in 30-30 etc. Antimony in the 3% range is perfect for general shooting and up to 4% max. My standard alloy is 2% tin and 4% antimony, just a little harder than some of the old COWW.
Brinell should be in the 14.0/14.5 area depending on what tester you use. Mine is the Lee tester. I use pure tin, and Rotometals superhard as my sources. Most handguns will do well at 1.5% and 3% range and the rifles seem to do better at 2/4.

This is not to say the other alloys won't do well also, they will, but to keep it simple my 2/4 covers everything you asked about plus a lot more.

I do use 20:1 for some handgun applications (hollowpoint,44 mag round flats for hunting,and 38 special wadcutters for NRA precision pistol.)

Tony

[Petander]

Is your lead pure?

If all 300 pounds is pure. Then buy 6 pounds of tin, and 30 pounds of Superhard. You will end up with something close to 95 PB/ 2 SN/ 3 SB. It will do everything you need.

JM

P.s. I use scavenged pewter in place of tin.

I would do this. I've done similar size basic mixes and it is very practical.

Except mix 250 lbs only, leaving 50 pure and some of the others as is for future tweaking in the pot. Marked well..

[Conditor22]

Leading is caused more often by fit (size of boolit being too small for the diameter of the barrel

Even this is a little on the hard size,
https://i.imgur.com/XJyXxfE.png

[fredj338]

I would go 50-50 pure/lino for the handguns & light 30-30. For near full power 30-30, I might justt shoot pure lino or water drop the 50-50 mix for economy sake. You wont need to add tin imo, there is enough in the lino.