What Group Buys are Open NOW?

[Tonto]

Wonder if this info exists in an easy format/place to find as I read the threads, it's tough to decipher just what is going on right now as of 12/29/05 at 8:20AM...Thanks

[45 2.1]

The Group Buys have a deep dark shadow (like a moonless, starless night) from the "8mm Custom Fracas" hanging over their collective heads. I believe the 7mm soup can is open, but is by the fellow who started the "8mm Custom Fracas" also. Nobody, but maybe the originator of the "8mm Custom Fracas", wants a repeat of the "8mm Custom Fracas" again plus alot of complaints have surfaced about too many group buys going, so now there appears to be no Group Buys going forward. A real PITA situation!

[felix]

The Gas Checks group buy is progressing currently, and will be closed at midnight Jan 31. These are the Gator brand of checks, which are quality controlled to Hornady specs. See the sticky thread having the word "Gator". ... felix

[SharpsShooter]

With all the dissention over dimensional irregularities with Lee and other involved issues, group buys are at a virtual standstill. (Excepting the Gator Check Felix mentions) It appears that willing honchos are more scarce than bacon in Bagdad and who could blame them.

I was asked by one member to honcho a 350-400gr 45-70 boolit that had been discussed at great length, and my immediate reply was that I could avoid the headache by spending a few extra bucks at mountain molds. The mold won’t be 6 banger, but it will be right and for my money it’s the sensible way to go and if the design doesn't work for me, I only have myself to blame.

:coffee:

[Slowpoke]

The Group Buys have a deep dark shadow (like a moonless, starless night) from the "8mm Custom Fracas" hanging over their collective heads. I believe the 7mm soup can is open, but is by the fellow who started the "8mm Custom Fracas" also. Nobody, but maybe the originator of the "8mm Custom Fracas", wants a repeat of the "8mm Custom Fracas" again plus alot of complaints have surfaced about too many group buys going, so now there appears to be no Group Buys going forward. A real PITA situation!

More like a bright full moon for me.

I would have to say the Fracas starter is right as slow rain on this issue.

good luck

[Dutch4122]

I thought I only said "fracas" once? ;)

[bdoyle]

The 30 cal 'soupcan' is in collection mode. Orders are at 17 at the moment. This is a re-run of a previous buy so enthusiasm is not quite so high. I thought we were doing ok???

Brian

[Buckshot]

..............I belive it may be a combination of things. There were a couple group buys where the tolerances were off. One of these was sent back by the honcho and Lee re-sent them back in about the same condition as before.

I think the main issue in all honesty was the fact that they were coming out so fast and furious that most people got "Group Buy OD'ed". I readily admit that for a time I'd forgotten how many I'd gotten in on :D. I sat down with a couple check registers and went back and got it all straightend out. I'd forgotten about a couple!

Plus we were coming up on the holidays and people's minds drifted off some, I'm sure.

If you check back on the Group Buys forum, there really was a veritable avalanche of them. This incarnation of the old Shooters.com board has only been in existance for a bare 9 months, so you'd have to go back to the AIMOO board and check there also for mould buys, in order to get the full picture.

There is also a bit of being spoiled by the Lee 6 cavity moulds and those designs outside of fitting in the 6 cavity blocks kind of get short shrift. A heavy design in 7mm for those old Mausers has "Died aborning" a couple times. The current 7mm Soup Can is the distillation of the last attempt.

So far in calibers:

17, Year and a half to 2 years ago

22, Never done. Bator 22 avail spec order at Mid-South.

24, Never done

25, A couple I think, in the past year and a half

26, One this year and another within a couple years ago

27, Never

28, No heavies, a light one working (7mm Soup Can)

29, For those 7.35 Carcanos? Never.

30, Soup can (current and another within pass year and a half), 311407 mod, 311041. 'Fat 30'.

31, A 314-120F finished recently and the "Fat 30" would fit here too. No .321".

32, (8mm) Been a couple years. Oldfeller's still avail spec order at Mid-South.

33, (8x56R, 338 ) Never

34, Never

35, A BUNCH!

36, (9.3) Never

37, Never

38, Never. What would it be for ? 8)

39, Never. See above.

40, Rifle/pistol, never

41, Rifle never. Pistol (41 mag) currently accepting checks (still I think?)

42, 43, Those old milsurps, etc. Never

44, Rifle, never. Pistol, a couple recently finished/delivered.

45, Rifle, never. Pistol several in the past year.

Any larger, never.

Working from a less then perfect memory that's what I come up with. I'm pretty sure I may have forgotten or mis-represented some timeframes. I'm pretty sure those I've listed as "Never" is pretty accurate. By rifle I don't mean pistol cartridge shooting leverguns.

The ground for custom moulds has been pretty well plowed in the past 2 years or so. Most of this group of board members has been together that long or longer so there isn't a whole lot of holes to be filled that the majority hasn't experienced in recent memory.

I don't doubt that there are a lot of guys out there with a personal want in design, weight, or caliber. For reasons stated earlier the 6 cavity blocks are popular, but single and 2 cavity deals have gone to fruition in the past. 475/480 is heading up the 41 cal pistol purchase, and that group had pretty well decided they wouldn't meet the 25 required to get by the $100 setup fee. However they wanted their boolit design so agreed to split up the fee.

Personally I can think of only 2 that I'd like to see. The obvious one to me would be a big 175 grain 7mm. The other might be another "Fat 30" going a couple hundred grains. Neither would fit in a 6 cavity set of blocks, so that's a strike against them from the git-go for many.

..................Buckshot

[David R]

Since I started using the BruceB method of casting, a 2 cavity can crank out a lot of boolits in a short time. My 311407 arrived, I poured boolits for a total of 2 hours one day and dropped em all into a bucket of water. Once I was done, I had 44 lbs of fine looking boolits. If you do the math, its over 1500 boolits. I can put that mold away for a year or so. Now I am thinking about buying 2 cavitiy molds, maybe that is all I need for rifles.

I am up to 10 30 cal molds. I quit!

31141 is closed, check is at lee and has been cashed.

David

[njmj]

Would'nt a 38-55 use a 38 cal. bullet, .379-.380? I'm surprised with all the interest in the leverguns in this caliber there hasn't been a request for a 6 banger. Marshall

[Buckshot]

Would'nt a 38-55 use a 38 cal. bullet, .379-.380? I'm surprised with all the interest in the leverguns in this caliber there hasn't been a request for a 6 banger. Marshall

Marshall, technicly yes. But usually the various 375's (375 Mag, 375 Win, and 38-55) are taken as, well ............375" :-).

I have a 1893 Marlin in 38-55 and a really great mould for it in the form of a Saeco 2 cav dropping a FNPB tapered 225gr boolit. It's a great plinker slug and has some authority to 100 yards or so. I think most the 38-55's floating around amongst the board members are lever guns, and so would benefit from a very similar design. BTW, the baseband on the Saeco is .383". It would be right at home in a Lee 6 cavity job.

Heck if you wanna honcho the deal, I'd be the first taker :D. There's one!

................Buckshot

[Tom Myers]

You could count me in as taker number 2 as I would love to have a good 6 cavity mold for my 38-55.

I would even offer my services so far as to provide the initial dimensional sketches of the casting. It is no problem to make changes in the sketch, I just type in the changed dimension and the software performs all the necessary changes, calculations and drawings.

This is an initial set of paramaters, based on my own 1898 mfg 38-55 barrel and chamber. Feel free to suggest any changes or additions that would provide the best fit for the most users.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/)

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Bullet-Lee-Mold-6C-38-280-T.gif

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Sketch-Lee-Mold-6C-38-280-T.gif

[felix]

Tom, you have there a boolit that will do very well with 18 twist. ... felix

[bdoyle]

Measuring a chamber cast from my Win 94BB 375 the throat does not start until 2.15 from base of brass. If we are using 2.08 brass (current prod) the band in front of the crimp would have to be a minimum of .07 (better .12) to reach the throat. Presently I seat the bullets out to reach into the throat and maintain a MAX OAL of 2.55. This worked in a Marlin 375 and Marlin CB 38-55 as well as the BB.
My BB is a .380 throat with .377 bore, the Marlin CB .382 throat and .381 bore.

Brian

[grumble]

I'd be in for one, too. I agree with bdoyle about the nose -- it needs to be able to feed through a lever gun but still fill the throat in battery. Seems to me that calls for a 1R nose, not the more streamlined 2R.

[45 2.1]

I'd be in for one, too. I agree with bdoyle about the nose -- it needs to be able to feed through a lever gun but still fill the throat in battery. Seems to me that calls for a 1R nose, not the more streamlined 2R.

That bullet does have a 1 radius nose. Very few of the drawings that have been group buys had a two radius nose.

[grumble]

??? you're gonna have to show that to me, 45 2.1. Sure looks to me like the curve on the nose is a lot more gentle than a .38 radius.

[45 2.1]

??? you're gonna have to show that to me, 45 2.1. Sure looks to me like the curve on the nose is a lot more gentle than a .38 radius.

OK, I see where you got that now, from the swaging folks. There rendition uses 1, 2 etc. caliber radiuses to control how pointy/long the nose is. In general, as cast bullet shooters can't get by with a long unsupported nose. Most drawings just list the actual radius for shape and don't use the jacketed nose form. Tom's drawing is a simple one radius nose, not a one caliber nose. Sorry for the confusion.

[grumble]

Experts should NEVER apologize for knowing more than the lumbering class. <GGG> That's just what I thought 1R or 2R meant, I didn't realize there were different conventions for different types of boolits.

Thanks for clearing the terminology up for me. What would a blunter nose radius be called?

[45 2.1]

Experts should NEVER apologize for knowing more than the lumbering class. <GGG> That's just what I thought 1R or 2R meant, I didn't realize there were different conventions for different types of boolits.

Thanks for clearing the terminology up for me. What would a blunter nose radius be called?

Not an expert! I have seen these definitions contradict each other too. I don't understand myself where Corbin gets some of his examples from.

[grumble]

Semantics aside, I wonder about seating depth of the longer noses that will be required to feed the loaded round through a lever gun, and if that COAL would be adequate for the "skinnier" nose to engrave the rifling when brought into battery.

If the rifle has a bore (rifling) diameter of .375, how far from the nose of the boolit will its diameter be .375 to engrave the rifling?

[45 2.1]

Semantics aside, I wonder about seating depth of the longer noses that will be required to feed the loaded round through a lever gun, and if that COAL would be adequate for the "skinnier" nose to engrave the rifling when brought into battery.

If the rifle has a bore (rifling) diameter of .375, how far from the nose of the boolit will its diameter be .375 to engrave the rifling?

Depending on the rifle, those that I have slugged go from 0.3695" to 0.372" at the start of the lands for the bore. None have been as large as 0.375". If the front band was 0.382" with a band length of about 0.065" or a little longer with a 0.372" nose, it would probably engrave on most rifles, except maybe those cavernous throated Marlin 375s. Most rifles in the 375 Win & 38-55 have long chambers cut for the correct (2.12") length 38-55 brass. The 38-55 will chamber and shoot in all the 375 Win I have tried.

[grumble]

I seem to have a real lack of reference material for 38-55. I can't find what the COAL should be.

What I'm trying to get to is whether a round that is loaded to engage the boolit in the rifling will feed from the magazine, or if it will have to be loaded one at a time through the ejection port because of its length. I have a couple lever gun / boolit combinations where that's the situation.

That's why, for lever gun applications, I tend to opt for the shorter and blunter nose. But, if this tapered nose boolit will do both (feed and engage), it'll be a great boolit for the old Winchester.

[wills]

one opinion
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/38-55win.php

[grumble]

Ah-ha! Thanks, Wills!

Can't believe I had so much trouble finding that. It seems none of my regular reloading books list the 38-55.

After beating that horse for so long, I'm in! <GGG>

Looks like a great boolit.

[wills]

Happy to help.

[Buckshot]

Happy to help.

..............Wills, you're a heckuva guy![smilie=l: BUt I'll bet your wife tells yuo that all the time!

...............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/A8CC33B25D750D9/standard.jpg
The above left is the Saeco 225gr tapered slug I was talking about. On the right is the Lee.

In my 1906 version M93 Marlin:

http://www.fototime.com/C818BC7B9918B1F/standard.jpg
That Saeco slug seated to and crimped in the crimp groove has the rifling engraved on the front band. IIRC the front band is .378" and the base band 'as cast' is .383" from common WW type alloy. I size to .382" as at .383" I get chamber rub marks on the brass.

However, I'd go for a 6 cavity dropping a GC slug of useable OD (.381"+).

So! I suppose there should be a new thread started eh? Gonna be hard to keep track of this group buy with the thread titled as it is, eh? :-)

....................Buckshot

[Tom Myers]

Buckshot,

You are right, a new thread should be started.

This shall be done!!
It shall be named "38-55 6 Cavity"!!
SHAZAM!!!!

Tom