Werndl 1867 carbine?

[uhjohnson]

I bought a Werndl carbine and thought “what a perfect bore”. Now it appears to have been rechambered and rebored but never shot. Definitely not a wall hanger any more if I do everything right, but I have never done anything like this before, so I am going with my empirical knowledge, I will start with the bore slug. I used a .452 SWC, the lands made a good cut and the excess lead started to fold over onto the groves, however, the groves never formed and gases will pass in front of the bullet. Do you think a solid pure lead .454 or a .458 will do the trick to create a grove or should I go with a skirted, back in the day I think a 300 grain pure lead bullet was used.

After a bullet is determined I will explain how I came up with a viable case, I think?

[country gent]

Give the 458 slug cast from pure a try. use three of them one just into the rifling, one a few inches in from the muzzle and the last thru the bore. this will show taper bore / groove at breech bore / groove at muzzle and any tight spots in between. Next is a chamber cast to determine what you need for cases. Measure the twist rate with a good cleaning rod nd tight patch this will give an idea as to bullet length weight you want

[Mk42gunner]

Good advice.

I used to use a .490" swaged round ball for slugging .44 and .45 bores. I had them for my flintlock, they worked.

Robert

[salpal48]

If you have a True Werndl Carbine , It is not The standard Werndl Round 11.15x58R. They were generally 11.15x36R Werndl carbine. I do have one and That is what I shoot.

[John Boy]

Johnson, give this a read ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werndl%E2%80%93Holub_rifle

[skeettx]

For mine, I use a .446 bullet and all is well
Mike

Also, compare the measurements

https://www.buffaloarms.com/11-15x58r-werndl-black-powder-ammo-340-grain-fn-box-of-20-amobp111558r

Made from Starline 50-110 brass

I use 348 Win brass because I have some :)

[uhjohnson]

Give the 458 slug cast from pure a try. use three of them one just into the rifling, one a few inches in from the muzzle and the last thru the bore. this will show taper bore / groove at breech bore / groove at muzzle and any tight spots in between. Next is a chamber cast to determine what you need for cases. Measure the twist rate with a good cleaning rod nd tight patch this will give an idea as to bullet length weight you want

my barrel has a 1/20.375 and the length is 22.5, I would like to use the 47122 ~ 330 grains ~ Gould, if I can get it in the proper diameter and if the weight isn’t too much

[kokomokid]

I remember fire forming a few .348 win cases and paper patching a .43 Egyptian boolit to groove size. Some of the cases split about mid body when loaded with a full charge of swiss powder. Wish I still had the old floopy block.

[uhjohnson]

Would someone interpret this writeup on the 11.15x36R especially the cartridge dimensions. I will upload the top half after I reduce the file

Thanks

[uhjohnson]

Here is the text to interpret

[NikA]

Cartridge dimensions are easy. Red number on right are lengths, black numbers on left are diameters. All dimensions in millimeters.

Have an electronic copy of that text? My Cyrillic is rusty but most Slavic languages share enough words to infer meaning in technical cases like this.

[cas]

You need to buy some cerrosafe and do a chamber cast. Then you'll know what your chamber is, your throat and your barrel.

[uhjohnson]

I have both 45/70 and 7.62x54 cases feeding in the Werndl Carbine and have hit another problem. They are both trimmed to 35.85mm. Although .452 (.14BHN) does not fill the bore completely, maybe a pure lead will or a .454 pure will, my problem now is after seating a .452 in the 7.62 it will only feed 3/4 of the way into the chamber and measures .484 at the mouth. The 45/70
will feed using the .452 and the outside mouth diameter measures .478 and hopefully fills the bore with pure lead, if not maybe .454 will without expanding the case too much and not feeding

I have done a chamber cast

[NikA]

From your text and Google translate:



The 11.15x36 R cartridge had a cylindrical tombak sleeve with a rim and was loaded with a charge of black powder weighing 2.18 g. A bullet weighing 20.3 g, made of soft lead, had two grooves for a donkey on the leading part.

I think it's safe to say that was "grooves for lubrication". The rest of the text is historical in nature.

[uhjohnson]

How much space should I have from the outside of the case surrounding the bullet to the chamber wall. I don't want to have a trigger detonated pipe bomb

[uhjohnson]

I have settled on using the Vintage arsenal 45 Colt 255gr hollow base Pure Lead bullets from "The Bull Shop". I have selected these bullets sized at .451 because any larger things start to get tight in the chamber and with a grove of .458 the skirt should open plenty to grab the rifling. I got lucky on the brass, there was a box of 100 .475 Linebaugh laying around made from 45-70 at a perfect length of 36mm after running into a 7.5x55 FL just enough to get into the chamber .001 under the chamber cast. After I know what has to be done to size the brass, I run the Linbaugh brass into the Swiss FL just enough to insert a 350gr Spanish Reformado bullet (by hand) and chuck it into a drill press without deforming the case. Then using a course file, that might be used for horse hooves, it is 1" wide with almost 180 degree semi circular teeth and can remove .040 in about 30 back and forth short strokes. I take the rims down to .583 just a little larger than the original cases. Then i run the brass into the Swiss FL just enough to fully fit the chamber, to insert the bullet a 45 Colt expander is used far enough to bell the mouth and after loading the round, it is run back into the Swiss FL just enough to remove the bell.
I need knowledge for two more steps. 1) Weight and powder type for fire forming, if needed, and most importantly a LOAD, I was thinking of using a load for the original 45 Colt PISTOL(with smokeless) or one from The Cartridges of the World for the 10.4x47Rmm Italian Vetterli M70, 250gr lead with 27grs IMR 4198 and start 10% under

[Mk42gunner]

I think I would use a case full of FFg black powder.

Robert

[j4570]

I would use black powder also. Probably FF as well. My father had a Werndl. It was some odd caliber we either formed from 348 Winchester or 43 Spanish. He never had a set of dies for it. I remember shooting it a few times back in the 90s. He sold it a few years ago. I remember it shot well and it looked nice. His was a commercial sporter type one. Neat gun.