Which way to wrap? grain of paper

[randyrat]

I found some real thin paper the stuff my wife wraps gifts in a bag, she calls it tissue paper. It has an obvious grain... Which way is the corect way to wrap a boolit? Does one want the grain going down the barrel or across...BTW this stuff wraps twice around a pure lead 180gr 30 cal sized to .308 to a final size of .310............ I may find this paper won't work at all but i'll give it my best..
I've had a dikkins of a time trying to find paper thats less than 20lb.

[randyrat]

I read paper PP 101 again and i think i have it now. The long or strong axis goes around the boolit. From the 101 it sounds like i have a good paper for PPing. Long fibers, not a lot of filler. I'll just have to try and see.

[405]

Randy,
Yes, I think most patchers recommend the long grain of the paper to run the same direction as the long axis of the patch.... perpendicular to the long axis of the bullet. The reason I've heard usually mentioned is that when the wet paper shrinks it does so more along the axis of the grain (fiber)... so the wrap is a little tighter when dry. All this seems to be included in the discusssion of direction of wrap around the bullet. Give it a try both ways and in both wrap directions and see if there is a combo that the rifle/load likes the best.

[eka]

Randy, you want to cut your patches across the grain. Cut two fairly long strips from different directions. Mark them, and hold them by the end. One will droop down farther than the other. The one that droops more is the one cut across the grain. That's the one you're looking for. Patches cut with the grain will not stretch and match up right.

Just in case you need it. You can figure out how long your patch needs to be by using the following formula: Pi(3.1416) X Boolit diameter X Number of wraps.
For example: 3.1416 X .308 X 2 would give you 1.935.

It sounds like the paper you are looking for is tracing paper. The pad I'm currently using measures out at .0017 in thickness.

Randy, I've also found that if I end up just a little over my target diameter, I run it through my sizing die after patching.

Hope that helps.

Keith

[randyrat]

Thanks for the math reminder..... My paper is .001~ which is very thin, but it does wrap and stay wrapped. Seems to be tough enough. Check it out sometime when your in the store. It would be in the department where they have those fancy gift bags that women give to each other. Its the white paper they stuff in with the gift. I just steal/borrow it from my wifes supply under the radar. Just keep your pie hole shut and they will never miss a sheet or two.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Hey Randy, I knew there was a reason I liked you. I would have never thought of using that paper for my PP work. Ny wife has a big handful of that paper she got at a local Hallmark store for wrapping gift ornaments with or wrapping ornaments with when the tree is taken down. Guess I`ll have to help her wrap ornaments. By the way the wax melted and blended beautifully, thanks again. :drinks: Robert

[montana_charlie]

I read paper PP 101 again and i think i have it now. The long or strong axis goes around the boolit.

The one that droops more is the one cut across the grain. That's the one you're looking for. Patches cut with the grain will not stretch and match up right.
These two remarks contradict each other.
CM

[randyrat]

Hardcast... Thanks for the compliment..My beeswax is all beeswax BTW and it will give you the best performance......There is a difference....Its a NO-NO to mix or cut beeswax with cheaper/different stuff.
OK lets get this straight............. If i draw a line in the direction the paper rips the best/easiest/along the grain/rips straight, Which way does that line go 1) down the barrel or the other way? That question is fool proof:twisted: LOL

[catboat]

To test for fiber orientation in a piece of paper, cut a small piece out (ie the size you will use for wrapping.) Make sure you make some mark so you remember which way is "up/down" or "left/right".

Hold that small piece of paper in the palm of your hand. The heat and moisture from your palm will likely make the paper curl. It will curl in such a way that the axis with more of the longer fiber will be the "straight side of the cylinder." The "curved axis" (curl) will be the the shorted fiber. Image laying down 30 toothpicks side-by-side, and puttting a piece of tape across them, then trying to roll them. The shape of the toothpick will only permit you to roll all 30 of them one way: ACROSS the LONG axis ("long fiber"), not WITH the long fiber. This is similar to paper with long fiber oriented in the "machine direction" of the paper machine.

You can wrap any way you want, and you should try it yourself to prove it. There really isn't a "right" and "wrong" as long as the patch stays wrapped.

In short, you want to roll the bullet into the natural cylinder shape the "palm-heated" paper sample reviews.

There ARE cases that the fiber orientation coming out of the headbox slice of a paper machine will have long fibers in near equal orientation in close to 45 degrees left and right. This will result in minimal curl. This is called a "square sheet," as the tear force required to rip the paper in one axis (machine direction) is equal to the tear force required to rip the paper in the other axis (90 degrees different).


The axis of the paper that tears EASIER, has the LONGER fiber orientation ("tearing along the major axis of the toothpicks").

The axis of the paper that tears HARDER, is tearing 90 degrees ACROSS the LONG fibers (into the curl). THIS is the direction you may want to wrap/roll your patch, to follow the natural curl of the paper.

[KYCaster]

To test for fiber orientation in a piece of paper, cut a small piece out (ie the size you will use for wrapping.) Make sure you make some mark so you remember which way is "up/down" or "left/right".

Hold that small piece of paper in the palm of your hand. The heat and moisture from your palm will likely make the paper curl. It will curl in such a way that the axis with more of the longer fiber will be the "straight side of the cylinder." The "curved axis" (curl) will be the the shorted fiber. Image laying down 30 toothpicks side-by-side, and puttting a piece of tape across them, then trying to roll them. The shape of the toothpick will only permit you to roll all 30 of them one way: ACROSS the LONG axis ("long fiber"), not WITH the long fiber. This is similar to paper with long fiber oriented in the "machine direction" of the paper machine.

You can wrap any way you want, and you should try it yourself to prove it. There really isn't a "right" and "wrong" as long as the patch stays wrapped.

In short, you want to roll the bullet into the natural cylinder shape the "palm-heated" paper sample reviews.

There ARE cases that the fiber orientation coming out of the headbox slice of a paper machine will have long fibers in near equal orientation in close to 45 degrees left and right. This will result in minimal curl. This is called a "square sheet," as the tear force required to rip the paper in one axis (machine direction) is equal to the tear force required to rip the paper in the other axis (90 degrees different).


The axis of the paper that tears EASIER, has the LONGER fiber orientation ("tearing along the major axis of the toothpicks").

The axis of the paper that tears HARDER, is tearing 90 degrees ACROSS the LONG fibers (into the curl). THIS is the direction you may want to wrap/roll your patch, to follow the natural curl of the paper.




Here's another example of the wide variety of the knowledge and experience of the people who contribute to this forum, their willingness to share that knowledge and how that knowledge can be applied to our hobby.

Other sites that I occasionally visit have such a norrow range of focus that they quickly become repetitive and boring...NOT HERE. You guys are amazing.

Thank you Catboat and everyone else who contributes here.

Jerry

[docone31]

I use a cigarette roller. Perhaps it is the technique involved, but, I did not notice a difference!
I cut some patches the wrong way. I was wrapping cross grain. With the roller, no big deal!
I try to cut so the grain is in the direction of the wrap, but, once in a while....
With a roller, it is no big deal.

[Buckshot]

..............I cut my patches so the width of the patch (not the length) cuts across the grain. I have found that this will allow the paper to stretch more when wrapping. Per Eka's suggestion for finding the grain, if there IS one in the paper you're using. I cut a half inch wide piece up the long edge of the sheet, and also one across the bottom of the sheet. Put a pencil mark on the shorter one, and cut the other to the same length.

Hold one in each hand between thumb and forefinger pointing straight out as if holding reins. The one that droops more is the one that is cut across the grain. I've patched with typing paper that had no discernable grain, and the lack of the stretch feeling was noticeable. To be honest there was also no accuracy drop off using the less stretchy paper either, so the pont may be moot, but I'm set in my ways and will patch 'Across the grain' if there's an option :-)

..............Buckshot

[randyrat]

Thanks for the valuable info, info that took years to get writen in a few words.

[randyrat]

I shot them yesterday, They grouped at minute of softball at 50 yds. I have some more variables to try yet. 8 grains of Unique i can go up a little for a bettter load and i would like to try IMR 30-31 also........
So i have some work ahead of me yet and i haven't givin up.
Yesterday was cold as hell, i didn't group very good with the pistol either so considering the cold factor in there it's not a bad plinkin round so far.........