Goex 2f or cartridge

[Grant]

I have a 45-90 and been using goex 2f. How much better would goex cartridge be for fouling and velocity? Thanx Grant

[northmn]

I find your question interesting because I do not see Cartridge recommended or used very often. Most recommend 2f or Swiss 1 1/2 F. While I have no expereince with the Cartridge, I am curious as to why it is hardly used.

Northmn

[montana_charlie]

While I have no expereince with the Cartridge, I am curious as to why it is hardly used.
Perhaps because it costs a bit more.

It is more carefully 'finished' than the standard 'F' grades, so it should have fewer 'fines'.
That means it may yield a somewhat lower MV, but should produce a more consistent one.

It's final processing is similar to the newer Express powders from Goex...but it doesn't cost as much as they do.
CM

[SharpsShooter]

I use it for all my BP cartridge loading with exception to 45 LC. I use Swiss for that simply to get the velocity out of a handgun. Goex Cartridge grade is not much more expensive. FFg is 10 lb. lot: $16.05 per lb while Cartridge is 10 lb. lot: $16.75 per lb. Thats only 70 cents a pound difference or $7 per order of 10 lb. Swiss on the other hand is 10 lb. lot: $22.55 per lb of FFg. Thats a bit high IMO.


Goex Cartridge is at its best when compressed. I routinely compress .300" in 45-70. I find it to burn clean and I have had very good accuracy.


SS

[Don McDowell]

I shoot about a case of Cartridge per year. It's almost as clean as Express. In my rifles the accuracy between Express and 2f express isn't enough different to really justify the added expense. Equal weight charges 2f and 2f express will shoot about 50 fps faster than cartridge.
Back to your question probably the only thing that would work better than Cartridge in your 90 might be express either 1 or 2f.
If you order from Grafs, you can mix and match powder brands and grades, and you don 't need to order a full 25 lb case. They make it pretty handy to try a variety of powder grades and brands to see what may or may not work in your guns.

[August]

I have settled on Goex CTG because it yields very consistent results, with shot to shot variations of less than 10 fps if I do all the hocus-pocus while making loads. It does have fewer fines than 2F. Surprisingly, I've found it to be cleaner than Shutzen, contrary to popular reputation.

Also, contrary to popular opinion, I find that Goex CTG doesn't require much compression for clean, consistent results. I like it and will eventually use it exclusively in the big gunz, the 38-40s, and the shotgun.

Now, for thousand yard stuff, the tutonic powders have a definite advantage due to their density. So, when we finally start playing at those distances, I'll finally start using some of that Swiss I have put away.

[John Boy]

Grant - here's what each powder looks like inside the cans:

Goex Cartridge – (05-37) 02OC07B
12 mesh – 0.62% retained
14 mesh – 0.03% retained
20 mesh – 97.54% retained
30 mesh – 01.70% retained
Through – 0.11%

Goex 2Fg
20 mesh - 79.2% retained
30 mesh - 20.8% retained
Source: Dutch Bill

As you can see, CTG is more of a 2F powder than Goex FFg. As for velocity, Swiss charcoal is Alder Blackthron and Goex is Maple. Here lies the better velocity using Swiss

It is more carefully 'finished' than the standard 'F' grades, so it should have fewer 'fines'.
Charlie, having looked at both powders under the microscope, I see no difference in the angular grains and polish. So, I say the cake is the same for each. The only difference then would be the screening for grain sizes - including the fines in CTG

[littlejack]

This is my first year with the black powder. I bought a Uberti Hiwall in 45-70 this summer and was recommended the Goex Cartridge bp where I get my bp supplies. I do not have anything to compare it with but it for what little bit I know about bp, it seems to do well. I did Chrony some of my first loads and the sd's and averages were good.
I do not want to steel the thread but I would appreciate knowing what all of you fella's are using for your bp lubes. Thanks and good loading to you all.
Jack

[Grant]

Thanx to all for your opinions. I am in the process of trying to sell one of my HP rifles and getting 50 lbs and trying to decide which to go with. Guess Ill just have to get a couple lbs and see how it compares to my GX 2f that I have been using.:) Thanx Grant

[boommer]

I did a a test on cartridge ,2ffGoex, swiss 1.5 in a muzzle loader a Lyman great plains 1-32 twist 50 Cal 395Gr plains conical SPG lube so this is purdy much apples to apples on velocity and fouling. this was done at 50 Yrds,no cleaning or patching between shots
90 Gr Goex Cartridge 1275 Fps AVG on a 5 shot string ,good group clover 5th loads nice
90Gr 2ff 1363 Fps 5 shot string groups opened up 2 " 5th loads good
90 GR Swiss1.5 1477 Fps clover groups loads good
This is just notes from my pad that I keep in my black box No big test, but just notes I think what I was doing that day was soaking in sun and warmth that day because it was April 13 07 and sunny 58 warm day here that time of year

[cajun shooter]

Littlejack, Go to the Sticky and classic forum on this site. You will find all kinds of recipes for making your own. If you want to buy store bought then look no further than Cast Boolits own Lars white label lubes.

[littlejack]

thanks cs
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack I'm a huge fan of Sagebrush Products , Sage Brush Alox. The stuff works great in bpcr, and equally as well with smokeless, and buying it by the tub at 9$ or so its really economical.

[littlejack]

Don:
There's another fella over on the handloads.com forum that says the same thing. I think i'm going to get me a tub. I have been making the Emmerts lube, but if one figures the price of everything and then the time to make it, the Sagebrush looks real good.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

[smilie=1: Jack in the interest of full disclosure.......:-D That other fella is me:drinks:
But I'm bettin you'll like that lube anyways. I take a table knife and slice strips out of the tub and stuff those into my lubrisizer.

[Boz330]

Don, I thought that Alox was a petroleum product and would gum up a BPCR and when I have tried it that is exactly what happened. Don't get me wrong I'm not disputing your claims, inquiring minds want to know, WHY, it is different.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Bob apparently Alox itself is a derivetive of Borax, at least that's how its been told to me.
I don't know the exact formulation that Harlan mixes his alox lube with, but I'll guarantee you it won't gum up a bpcr:drinks: Matter of fact if a person is a blowtuber, and shooting in not terribly hot dry weather its no big feat to load and shoot 10 rnds , not loose any accuracy, and not have to hyperventilate on the blowtube.,just leave the tube alone:-D
I ran a test with the 45 colt using 37 grs of Goex 3f a .030 fiber wad, and RCBS 255kt bullets cast from wheelweights and lubed with Sagebrush alox. I sent 35 rounds out of a New Vaquero with a 5.5 inch barrel before the gun got so hot it was getting hard to handle. I did after the 4th cylinder full spray the front of the cylinder with a Simple Green mix , as the fouling was starting to bind a bit on the forcing cone and cylinder face.

[Boz330]

Price is sure reasonable, might not hurt to give it a try.

Bob

[cajun shooter]

Don, I shoot 50-60 rounds in CAS using 2F Goex with my own lube and narry a problem. The bullet is the Big Lube and it works great. Also use Mobil One sythetic grease on the base pins. Cylinders spin like they have never been fired. Left them without cleaning this poast Sat. after returning home from a match. Sunday both 45's still spinning.

[littlejack]

Don:
Ya tricked me on that wun.