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Rizzo
12-08-2020, 04:32 PM
Jesus said "Ask and you will receive."
There are several verses in the Bible that state this.

It is a straightforward statement.
It does not say that you will receive "someday"....weeks, months, years later?
There is a passage that has a qualifier in it which states to ask sincerely in Jesus' name.

Regardless, in my experience, my sincere "asks" have not been "received".

I may have told this story before about my nephew and his wife.
She was pregnant with twins, but one had medical issues and they were told that the baby would not live.
He was an associate Pastor at his church and the whole congregation took part in some heavy prayer to God to save that child.
"Ask and you will receive."
This went on for several months.
He told me that God would answer their prayers and then the world would know that prayer and miracles do happen.
It was a really big deal for all in the congregation.

Unfortunately the baby did not make it to birth.
I thought that because of that his faith would be shattered.
I'd imagine that to some extent it did but he has continued in his faith.

I do not "ask" (prayer) much anymore because I have also sincerely "asked" and did not receive.
But, I may be at a stop light and see some person all crooked and limping across the street and it saddens me.
I do say a quick prayer for help for that person but quickly get frustrated because of my past experiences in "asking".
I sigh and tell myself "Your will Lord, not mine".

Perhaps the passage isn't as straightforward as it seems.
If I pray and ask God that I not be so quick tempered, would I receive my "ask"?
More likely He would not change me but give me opportunities to practice not being so quick tempered.
I really do not know. It does say simply "ask and you will receive".
Yet,.....not really.

Have you asked and have received?
I'm interested in reading some examples where you know your prayer was answered.
I do not mean that just before you shoot a deer that you ask God for you to not miss the shot, and then you have success.
I mean serious stuff.

Martin Luber
12-08-2020, 04:49 PM
A wife, and a child....but it did take a while.

Rolling Stones song...You Can't Always Get What You Want....but you get what you need.

What will be will be, it's beyond me to argue.

CastingFool
12-08-2020, 05:54 PM
The bible says He will give you the desires of your heart (I'm sure there's more after that) might be years, or it may be immediately. Or it may be when least expected. All I know is that I'm thankful when i recognize when I have received the desires of my heart. It has happened in my life a few times. When it doesn't happen, I figure it must not be right for me.

Half Dog
12-08-2020, 06:05 PM
I too have asked and didn't notice receiving. Now I just ask that God's will be done and accept my circumstances.
If I am wrong, please set me straight.

obssd1958
12-08-2020, 06:38 PM
Short version -
When I was about 20, I went hunting at the edge of an Idaho wilderness area with a friend who had just had a cast removed from his leg, and his wife. I had never been there before, but my friend insisted he knew the area well. We got lost, and were without proper clothing or any survival supplies. That night, laying on the ground, shivering in the light rain that was coming down, while my friend and his wife were huddled together a few feet away, I prayed for God to give us a way out, or give me a sign of which way to go. Of course I promised that I would be good for ever more...
A little while later, I heard the unmistakable sound of a truck lumbering up a grade, and shifting through the gears. I focused in on where I thought the sound was coming from.
Once it became light enough to walk again in the morning, I insisted that we go in the direction that I had heard the truck - they didn't hear it, and tried to insist we go the opposite direction. I managed to get my way, and after many hours of walking in the lead, we hit the last 100 feet of an old logging road. That leaves only one direction to follow out, and we made it back to an access point going into the wilderness, just a couple hours later. A young gentleman and his hunting partner had set up their camp there, and once we had gotten something to eat and drink, they took us back to where we had left our truck the previous day - about 10 miles away.
Looking at a map afterwards, there was no where for miles and miles, that a truck could have been heard going up a grade that night.
I believe with all my heart, that God answered my prayer.

MT Gianni
12-10-2020, 03:35 PM
Don, There is no better blessing than finding the end of a road. You then have no hesitation which way to go.

OutHuntn84
12-10-2020, 04:24 PM
I have a theory; lets say you go stand on the train tracks. Before the train is in sight you feel the tracks vibrating. You see it come around the bend. You hear the whistle blowing. You resist all your God given fight or flight urges, bow your head and start praying heavy. What do you think happens next? Go ahead use that amazing brain matter the good lord gave ya. Doesn't take a rocket scientist now does it.

Now I think every man should have a solid personal relationship with their lord and savior. So I find it very likely he will promptly slap you in the back of your head at the pearly gates and explain that you already had every blessing necessary to get out of that situation yourself. God has already given us free will and a mountain of blessings we take for granted every day. I don't ask God to solve my problems, but I do ask for guidance, wisdom, courage, patience, you get the idea. If I find it is beyond my control I freely give it to God because it was never meant for me to control in the first place

Thanks for sitting through my religious boot strap talk lol.

CastingFool
12-10-2020, 05:59 PM
That's excellent, Outhuntn84!

tankgunner59
12-10-2020, 06:43 PM
The Bible does not tell us that we will receive at any particular time. Any/everything we ask will happen according to His will, and in His time. We must be patient as the Bible also tells us to wait on God.
I was made fun of all my teenage life because I had several opportunities to bed a girl just for the sex. I wasn't interested in one night stands or whatever one will call it. I was looking for a relationship, and I prayed most of my life to that end. I married my first wife because I got in a hurry to have my family life, it didn't last long at all. I was 28 when we met and 29 when she divorced me.
When I was 34 I was sharing a house with a friend and his girlfriend. We had a friend in a country band and went to see them one weekend. As we were all getting ready to go, believe it or not, God spoke to my heart. I told my friends that I would meet the woman I have been looking for tonight. My friend asked how I knew and I told him that the Lord told me. He didn't believe me. That night we were with some other friends from work. The wife of one of them hadf some friends there that we didn't know. One ladu=y was supposed to meet her ex-husband that night and he didn't show. When it was stated by her sister that Ruth needs someone to dance with our friends wife raised my hand and said this is her dance partner for tonight. Long story short, we have been married 26 years this past May.
I have no doubt in my military mind that this connection was directed by God.
People ask, how do you know that God is speaking to you, and I reply, you feel it in your spiritual heart and when it happens you know it! Just know that when we pray God always answers, but sometimes the answer is No. It may seem harsh but He has His reasons.

dverna
12-11-2020, 12:40 AM
I have a theory; lets say you go stand on the train tracks. Before the train is in sight you feel the tracks vibrating. You see it come around the bend. You hear the whistle blowing. You resist all your God given fight or flight urges, bow your head and start praying heavy. What do you think happens next? Go ahead use that amazing brain matter the good lord gave ya. Doesn't take a rocket scientist now does it.

Now I think every man should have a solid personal relationship with their lord and savior. So I find it very likely he will promptly slap you in the back of your head at the pearly gates and explain that you already had every blessing necessary to get out of that situation yourself. God has already given us free will and a mountain of blessings we take for granted every day. I don't ask God to solve my problems, but I do ask for guidance, wisdom, courage, patience, you get the idea. If I find it is beyond my control I freely give it to God because it was never meant for me to control in the first place

Thanks for sitting through my religious boot strap talk lol.

I am in the same boat....you put it very well.

obssd1958
12-11-2020, 01:23 AM
I have a theory; lets say you go stand on the train tracks. Before the train is in sight you feel the tracks vibrating. You see it come around the bend. You hear the whistle blowing. You resist all your God given fight or flight urges, bow your head and start praying heavy. What do you think happens next? Go ahead use that amazing brain matter the good lord gave ya. Doesn't take a rocket scientist now does it.

Now I think every man should have a solid personal relationship with their lord and savior. So I find it very likely he will promptly slap you in the back of your head at the pearly gates and explain that you already had every blessing necessary to get out of that situation yourself. God has already given us free will and a mountain of blessings we take for granted every day. I don't ask God to solve my problems, but I do ask for guidance, wisdom, courage, patience, you get the idea. If I find it is beyond my control I freely give it to God because it was never meant for me to control in the first place

Thanks for sitting through my religious boot strap talk lol.

Underneath, my story holds the same convictions as you. You said it better though! God didn't just come pluck me off the mountain and set me down on the road beside our truck. It took the faith that he was in the lead, and I had to do my part.
Believe me, my friend and his wife were not convinced that following me (or God) was the right thing to do, and they questioned and drug their feet the whole time.
I wish I could say that they were saved that day, but they called it "luck".
I know better.

1hole
12-11-2020, 12:12 PM
"Luck" is always the answer for God's blessings to those who don't believe. God always answers prayer; sometimes it's "Yes" and immediate, sometimes it's "Okay, but later", sometimes it's "No" but it's never luck.

The Bible was written by Hebrews, to Hebrews who have a great understanding of what a simple comment like "Ask and you shall receive" means. We take it to mean whatever we want we can have but that would sometimes be a disaster because we don't know what is best for us; God does and his answers to prayer includes a knowledge of what we ask, good or bad, will do.

Thankfully, God is not a great Santa Clause we can manipulate into giving us everything we want; that would be a disaster. I've learned to recognise that his "No" or "Later" works out better for me and everyone else, just as Jesus prayed, "Nevertheless, not my will but your's be done". Meaning that even in the most painful situations I, like Jesus, trust (have faith) that He is doing the right thing for me and everyone I'm praying for.

SO, I know my every prayer is answered even tho I may not like the answer

dverna
12-11-2020, 01:30 PM
The tough aspect of faith is trust when things go badly. It is difficult to accept the death of a young child or grandchild as meaningful in God's plan. Or unborn children that God knows, in His omniscience, that will be aborted by the mother.

At a "lower" level of intelligence, it is not questioned and accepted as "God's Plan". At a "higher" level of intelligence, are those who demand understanding and, in frustration, lose faith in a God they cannot understand. At the "highest level of intelligence comes realization we are not as smart as we think we are.. we accept our limits...and trust in God.

Ickisrulz
12-11-2020, 05:36 PM
"Ask, seek and knock": is found in Matthew 7:7-8. Basic human experience shows us that not everything we ask for is granted by God. Even many sincerely selfless requests made while exercising genuine faith are not granted; not immediately, later or ever. So maybe, just maybe this passage doesn't mean what we might think it does, especially when the context is not considered.

Here's the context:

First Jesus says the following "Judge not lest you be judged": We are not to got out of our way to find fault with our brother or pass judgment on him as if we are God. When a problem is found we are to gently help (remove that mote it is causing pain).

Jesus immediately follows up with "Don't cast your pearls before swine": When people have demonstrated they are antagonistic toward the things of God you have shared with them, it is time to move on and not waste your time and resources. This is a severe response to adversaries.

We have two possible course of action. We are to discriminate, but not to judge. How are we to know when to act one way or the other? I suggest this is where the "asking, seeking and knocking" come into play.

Rizzo
12-12-2020, 01:55 PM
Short version -
When I was about 20, I went hunting at the edge of an Idaho wilderness area with a friend who had just had a cast removed from his leg, and his wife. I had never been there before, but my friend insisted he knew the area well. We got lost, and were without proper clothing or any survival supplies. That night, laying on the ground, shivering in the light rain that was coming down, while my friend and his wife were huddled together a few feet away, I prayed for God to give us a way out, or give me a sign of which way to go. Of course I promised that I would be good for ever more...
A little while later, I heard the unmistakable sound of a truck lumbering up a grade, and shifting through the gears. I focused in on where I thought the sound was coming from.
Once it became light enough to walk again in the morning, I insisted that we go in the direction that I had heard the truck - they didn't hear it, and tried to insist we go the opposite direction. I managed to get my way, and after many hours of walking in the lead, we hit the last 100 feet of an old logging road. That leaves only one direction to follow out, and we made it back to an access point going into the wilderness, just a couple hours later. A young gentleman and his hunting partner had set up their camp there, and once we had gotten something to eat and drink, they took us back to where we had left our truck the previous day - about 10 miles away.
Looking at a map afterwards, there was no where for miles and miles, that a truck could have been heard going up a grade that night.
I believe with all my heart, that God answered my prayer.
The "phantom" truck in the night that you heard in the distance is pretty interesting.
Whether you actually heard it (physically), or mentally in a dream, or God put the sound in your brain really doesn't matter.
You received a "navigational" direction to walk to that eventually got you back.

Then, "Looking at a map afterwards, there was no where for miles and miles, that a truck could have been heard going up a grade that night."

Good story.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Rizzo
12-12-2020, 02:27 PM
The Bible does not tell us that we will receive at any particular time. Any/everything we ask will happen according to His will, and in His time. We must be patient as the Bible also tells us to wait on God.

Correct, it does not say "when" you will receive, it just says that you will receive.
In the case of my nephew's wife with the twins, congregational prayer went on for several months but in the end one of the twins did not make it.
One could say that God said "No" and allowed the baby to die.
But the various passages do say "ask and you will receive".
They ( my nephew and wife and the whole church congregation) prayed and prayed (asked) and sadly did not receive.


"Luck" is always the answer for God's blessings to those who don't believe. God always answers prayer; sometimes it's "Yes" and immediate, sometimes it's "Okay, but later", sometimes it's "No" but it's never luck.


Then the passage "ask and you will receive" should have been "ask and you will receive...maybe"
It is stating that you will receive. The only variable would be "when".
So perhaps "ask and you will receive...at some point".

If God always answers prayer and His answer is no, how do we know He said no?
When we do not receive our "ask" we assume the answer is no?
Wouldn't it be contradictory to say no when the passages say that you will receive?

Rizzo
12-12-2020, 02:43 PM
I want to clarify something here.
There are several Bible passages that I disagree with.
"ask and you will receive" is one of them.
I am not Bible bashing here or wanting to "throw the baby out with the bath water" so to speak.
As I am getting older and wiser, I see things a little differently than I did when I was younger.
I am more critical and need more detail to more fully understand things.

What seems to be a straight forward Bible passage isn't so straight forward in this case, in my opinion.
That kind of bugs me because the Bible is held in such high regard yet it has my head spinning sometimes.
We, in this Physical World, just do not have the brain power to understand some of these things and some turn to the Bible (man's instruction manual) for answers....only to find more confusion.

That is where Faith comes into play.
My wife says to me "Quit trying to figure it all out....you can't. Just accept the fact that you can't and quit torturing yourself trying to figure it out".

True, very true.

Rizzo
12-12-2020, 02:58 PM
"Ask, seek and knock": is found in Matthew 7:7-8. Basic human experience shows us that not everything we ask for is granted by God. Even many sincerely selfless requests made while exercising genuine faith are not granted; not immediately, later or ever. So maybe, just maybe this passage doesn't mean what we might think it does, especially when the context is not considered.

Here's the context:

First Jesus says the following "Judge not lest you be judged": We are not to got out of our way to find fault with our brother or pass judgment on him as if we are God. When a problem is found we are to gently help (remove that mote it is causing pain).

Jesus immediately follows up with "Don't cast your pearls before swine": When people have demonstrated they are antagonistic toward the things of God you have shared with them, it is time to move on and not waste your time and resources. This is a severe response to adversaries.

We have two possible course of action. We are to discriminate, but not to judge. How are we to know when to act one way or the other? I suggest this is where the "asking, seeking and knocking" come into play.

I do not see how the context that you posted alters the "ask and you will receive" passage.

As mentioned before, I went and searched for passages with that text and found several.
I read the context of each and still came away with it being a straight forward statement, except for when we would receive.

Perhaps, like you mentioned, the passage doesn't mean what we think it means.
I agree, since it does not ring true in my experience.

Ickisrulz
12-12-2020, 06:38 PM
I do not see how the context that you posted alters the "ask and you will receive" passage.

As mentioned before, I went and searched for passages with that text and found several.
I read the context of each and still came away with it being a straight forward statement, except for when we would receive.

Perhaps, like you mentioned, the passage doesn't mean what we think it means.
I agree, since it does not ring true in my experience.

It cannot mean that anything we ask for we will get. Even if what we ask for matches up with God's will. How many have prayed for someone to be saved, but they never were? Our experience tells us this.

In the Matthew passage I referenced, "asking, seeking and knocking" is directly related to Jesus' admonition on using discernment when dealing with different types of people. Other biblical passages dealing with asking from God have their own contexts. The only book of the Bible where we have stand alone pithy sayings is Proverbs. Jesus' discourses are well thought out and logical, context is key to understanding the true meaning.

1hole
12-12-2020, 06:40 PM
One could say that God said "No" and allowed the baby to die. But the various passages do say "ask and you will receive". They ( my nephew and wife and the whole church congregation) prayed and prayed (asked) and sadly did not receive.

Then the passage "ask and you will receive" should have been "ask and you will receive...maybe". It is stating that you will receive. The only variable would be "when". So perhaps "ask and you will receive...at some point".

If God always answers prayer and His answer is no, how do we know He said no? When we do not receive our "ask" we assume the answer is no? Wouldn't it be contradictory to say no when the passages say that you will receive?

As said before;

1st, scripture was written by and to Hebrews with a knowledge of some 2,000 years of scripture and national history, not 21st Century Gentiles with little knowledge of scripture and a very limited knowledge of our own history.

2nd, all scripture must be understood in the light of other scripture, no passage should be taken as a child-like, stand-alone reading of anything without searching for further illumination of a question. That's a large reason for believers to actually study scripture, not just read it; kids can read the Bible and know what it says but no kid can grasp what's behind what's written.

There are many examples of answered prayer that illustrate granted prayer is generally predicated on the over all wisdom of the request and we are in no position to question God's wisdom; i.e., pray "Never the less, let not my will to be done but yours." That's not in contradiction to "ask and you will receive", it's an extension of the "Lord's Prayer" passage asking that His will be done on earth.

Let's not pray that we can manipulate God into doing something He knows is long term foolish.

wv109323
12-12-2020, 07:58 PM
The Bible tells us of examples of unanswered prayers. Paul prayed three times for the "thorn in his flesh" to be removed. I don't know exactly what it was but I assume Paul thought it was a hinderance to his ministry. Here is a man that wrote the biggest part of the New Testament that prayed earnestly that a physical ailment be removed so that he could do more as a servant for Christ. It did not happen as far as we know.
Paul performed many recorded miracles but could not perform some that he wanted. He left Timothy sick and unable to travel and preach. If all prayers were answered, we would not need faith. We could or would live by answered prayers and not faith.
Two promises that hold true. God will always hear the prayer " of a broken heart and contrive spirit" and reward that prayer with eternal life. Our eternal home will be heaven given we live by faith.
The Bible says "the feverent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" It Does NOT say avileth all and everything.

Thundarstick
12-13-2020, 10:58 AM
Jas 4:1-3

What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

It obvious our reasons for asking play a role in receiving.

1I-Jack
12-13-2020, 03:09 PM
Jas 4:1-3

What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

It obvious our reasons for asking play a role in receiving.

Well stated.

GhostHawk
12-13-2020, 09:56 PM
Amen!

And again and again in my life I would ask for what I wanted, and get what I needed. Which were often vastly different things.

Like a hot car right out of High School, and I got a powder blue year old 70 duster with 12,000 miles on it for 2200$. Fleet car, sold it 6 years later for 1800$. Put gas, oil and a starter in it, that's all.

My buddy's with hot cars had nothing but troubles.

Ask for what you need, and be prepared to have done the work ahead of time so you can afford it when it drops into your lap.

ioon44
12-14-2020, 08:45 AM
The Bible tells us of examples of unanswered prayers. Paul prayed three times for the "thorn in his flesh" to be removed. I don't know exactly what it was but I assume Paul thought it was a hinderance to his ministry. Here is a man that wrote the biggest part of the New Testament that prayed earnestly that a physical ailment be removed so that he could do more as a servant for Christ. It did not happen as far as we know.
Paul performed many recorded miracles but could not perform some that he wanted. He left Timothy sick and unable to travel and preach. If all prayers were answered, we would not need faith. We could or would live by answered prayers and not faith.
Two promises that hold true. God will always hear the prayer " of a broken heart and contrive spirit" and reward that prayer with eternal life. Our eternal home will be heaven given we live by faith.
The Bible says "the feverent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" It Does NOT say avileth all and everything.

I like your post, I think Pauls "thorn in his flesh" were people around him.

How many people do we have in our lives that are a "thorn in his flesh" to us and the only solution is to pray for them.

1hole
12-14-2020, 11:46 AM
Amen!

And again and again in my life I would ask for what I wanted, and get what I needed. Which were often vastly different things.
......
Ask for what you need, .....

Exactly. THAT'S the core of "ask and you will receive".

You needed transportation and you got it. A lot of boys got what they wanted and some got maimed or killed because of it, many others maimed or killed innocents simply because they got what they wanted.

I once worked with a good ol' "name it and claim it" Christian man with a family of four kids. Understandably, he rightly wanted - needed - a house for them. He found one really nice house that he wanted but it was out of his price and social range. He had his family join him in circling that house once a day for weeks, laying hands on it and praying for it until they "prayed through" and got it. He was happy ... but, by gaining more house than he needed he also got a mortgage bigger than he could afford and in a neighborhood with more temptations than his wife and kids could rightly handle. In less than three years his wife was an alcoholic and two of his kids were in trouble with the law; the marriage came apart. And he lost the house. But, he got the exact house he wanted even tho it really wasn't what he needed.

God knows what we need as well as what we want. We don't live in a vacuum, everything we do has ripple effects far down the road and we can't see that very well. Thus, getting what we need is much more important than getting what we want and God knows best how our deepest desires and prayers should be answered; yes/no/later. Then I trust Him for His wisdom.

I know I can't out-smart God. So, I choose to pray for exactly what I want but in closing I've learned to add, "Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done." (Mark 44:36, Luke 22:42)

GhostHawk
12-14-2020, 03:15 PM
"I've learned to add, "Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done."

Exactly!

Lord I may screw up and ask for the wrong thing, if I do please correct me and give me what I need not what I asked for.

NOT my will but THINE be done oh Lord.

Also it helps to be humble. It helps to be prepared. God can best help those who help themselves.

CarlMc
12-14-2020, 10:06 PM
My mother always said that the Lord works in mysterious ways. Meaning you may very well get what you need; not necessarily what you want. With that in mind, I realized the best thing I can ever ask The Lord for myself was wisdom. With wisdom, everything else will follow.
Someone else, whom I don't recall, once said pray on your knees. Then get up. Most of us think that the request simply ends at the end of the prayer, not realizing that the prayer is merely the beginning. Get up and go get it, and you'll find out whether that's the right thing for you or not.

I have also realized that regrets are a bad thing. Every stupid, boneheaded thing you did in your life led you to where you are today, and today is where you are the wisest you've ever been your whole life, and that's a good thing. All the blessings you have flowed out of the little things that resulted in your today. If you're reading this, I assume you're also above ground, and every day above ground is a good day.

1hole
12-16-2020, 11:20 AM
... every day above ground is a good day.

Only those who have not actually stood on the imminent edge of eternity with the ground crumbling at our feet can fully understand the value of each day with our families. I open my prayer time each night thanking God for granting me another good day with those I love second only to God himself!

LoveND
12-17-2020, 04:43 PM
I want to give a testimony to what i saw with my own eyes. 2 years ago my very close friend and i were at the local gym alone at that time of day. We were talking about prayer between sets of working out. We are both old men. He is in his 60/s and i am in my very late 70/s. I believe in praying about everything. He never prayed but is a believer. He likes to show god he is tough and never asks for help. I said to him, what is you greatest need. He said money as we are very short of it and it is very hard to make it from day to with it. I said ken, why dont you when you get home goe in your closet and pray in Jesus name for god the father to help you out with lack of enough money to make it from day to day. He said to my surprise. I will try that and he did just that. Fast forward to 3 days later and we were at the gym again alone. My cell phone has a incoming call. It was his wife. He doesn’t have a cell phone. She was crying and said i need to speak to ken. I said ok and handed the phone to him. He took the phone listened and started to cry. He then handed the phone back to me. I though I had better get ready for bad news as someone was just killed that is close to them. So i said ken what happened? He said through tears, its not bad its good. I said what happened. He said a lawyer just called my wife and said we just inherited 750 thousand dollars or maybe more from a distant relative. I was stunned. 3 day and god provided him a answer to a need. Ken has lost money helping out others, this time it came back to him in a wheelbarrow. Ken has no problem now and then praying for needs. He is a lot closer to god and his son now. Remodeled his old farm house. Still drives the old dodge truck. Doesn’t worry about money anymore. Try prayer it works. I could tell here many times god answered prayer for me but I’m not writing a book. Maybe i should.

1hole
12-17-2020, 07:41 PM
LoveND, that's a fabulous story. It was a "YES" and "NOW" answer to your friends request. It's interesting that God not only filled the need but already had the solution in motion before the request was made! I love it. But, let none of us think your friend's prayer request put God under obligation and therefore we can all "get rich" the same way; that would be a wrong reaction to your story.

Many false preachers teach that people who need money can get it by sending "seed" money to his "struggling ministry", after which God is expected to laddle wealth on the praying poor soul. That's a deceptive lie which has impoverished a lot of desperately needy people and hell should have a specially hot corner for such preachers to spend eternity. The likes of Benny Hind and Creflo Dollar immediately come to mind.

A current couple dozen other high visibility rich "preachers" are also very successful at that kind of con work. But note that Billy Graham never had private jets or a huge staff and he made his own living from his own books, not begging for more money!

Pray for what we need and trust God to know what that is.

wmitty
12-17-2020, 10:08 PM
I looked at the verses a little differently, I guess. I have questions regarding the meaning of verses in John’s gospel which I prayed and asked to be shown the meaning of what our Lord had said. I have been shown the meaning of some things that had me baffled for years.

Rizzo
12-19-2020, 04:21 PM
I looked at the verses a little differently, I guess. I have questions regarding the meaning of verses in John’s gospel which I prayed and asked to be shown the meaning of what our Lord had said. I have been shown the meaning of some things that had me baffled for years.

I am baffled by some of the verses as well.
Care to share one or two examples of the verses you wrote about, and the meaning that you were "shown"?
Also, how were you shown?
Did you reread a verse and then had a full understanding of the meaning after you "asked"?

Rizzo
12-19-2020, 04:31 PM
...And again and again in my life I would ask for what I wanted, and get what I needed. Which were often vastly different things.


So, you really did not receive what you asked for.

The assumption here is that God heard your prayer (ask) and said "Nah,...what you really need is "this".

God may give us what we "need" but it is not really the same thing as what the Bible verses say.
"Ask and you will receive".
Not ask and you will receive....what I believe you need.

Why say such a thing (Jesus stated that) if one can test that statement, only to find that it is not true.

wmitty
12-19-2020, 05:33 PM
Rizzo,
I’d been taught all my life that anyone could come to Christ and receive forgiveness when that person believed that Jesus Christ is Son of the Living God. When I read John 6:44 I was baffled at Jesus’ teaching. I was shown that men do not make the decision to come to Christ unless they are born of the Spirit of God. It is Jesus, the Son of Man, who has been given authority to judge men and who gives spiritual life to whom He is pleased to give it. Only a man born of God’s Spirit is capable of coming to Christ. A man can be physically alive and spiritually dead .... in fact most men fall into this category. As for how I was shown, it came with a great deal of studying and prayer.

Rizzo
12-19-2020, 10:03 PM
Rizzo,
I’d been taught all my life that anyone could come to Christ and receive forgiveness when that person believed that Jesus Christ is Son of the Living God. When I read John 6:44 I was baffled at Jesus’ teaching. I was shown that men do not make the decision to come to Christ unless they are born of the Spirit of God. It is Jesus, the Son of Man, who has been given authority to judge men and who gives spiritual life to whom He is pleased to give it. Only a man born of God’s Spirit is capable of coming to Christ. A man can be physically alive and spiritually dead .... in fact most men fall into this category. As for how I was shown, it came with a great deal of studying and prayer.

Thank you for elaborating on what you previously posted.

GhostHawk
12-20-2020, 09:54 AM
Rizzo I look at it as a father and son type thing.

You would not give your son something that would end up hurting him.
IE you would not always give what is asked for, wanted. But you would look the situation over and give him what he needs.

He still gave. Gave better than I deserved. Again and Again.

Ask and it will be given stands IMO. But be wise enough to ask for what you can handle. For what you need, not what you want.

popper
12-25-2020, 01:12 PM
"Ask and you will receive", you never know when. Sometimes you don't ask but look back on a situation and marvel at how stuff turned out. I am color blind. Disqualifier for Gov. driver's lic and Navy missile school but still got in. Took E5 FT exam (mostly trig), never had trig. Passed. C HS student and got accepted to university. Division Officer asked if I was extending and I said going to school (that I hadn't thought about). Did ask for a strong Christian wife - 52 years and she only hit me once.
Don't think the Holy Spirit is at work? Think again!

Rizzo
12-25-2020, 02:46 PM
"Ask and you will receive", you never know when.
That may be,...for some.
When asking (prayer), I think it is reasonable to expect an answer in a reasonable time.
If you ask God to "save" someone and ten years later it finally happens,...was that God's answer?
When it takes that long I doubt it.
Not all prayers are answered, unfortunately. Even though the Bible says "ask and you will receive".

Going back to my nephew story about the baby, it was several months of hard congregational prayer.
Did he or the congregation "receive" what they asked for?.....no.
One could say that God said NO!, but nobody got that answer from God , other that they did not get what they asked for.

Is that partly how it works? We ask and do not receive so we say, "Oh, God said no."
Prayer is a one way conversation.
Have you a "heard" Yes, or No from Him?
If you get what you "ask" for then one could say that the answer was Yes! But if you did not get what you asked for you are left hanging without an answer and wait and wait and wait until you may finally conclude that the answer must have been No!

Why pray at all when God knows what is best for us.
Do we think we can change His mind about stuff we ask for?
"Your will Lord, not mine" is fine with me.

You can test the Bible verse yourself, I have and others have and it was not true.


Don't think the Holy Spirit is at work? Think again!
I did not read anywhere here that stated that.
Apparently, that's a rhetorical question.

God works in mysterious ways for sure,...without our asking involved.