Winchester Single Shot in 32-40-Tapered Boolit?

[TXGunNut]

I know, it’s been a couple of years since I dropped by. I’ll try to catch up as I can but it’s been a pretty wild ride.
The reason I’ve dropped by is I have a very intriguing rifle, a 1907 vintage Winchester Single Shot (AKA 1885 High Wall). It shoots fairly well with an Accurate 322170A sized .323 with a GC. Lands measure .315 and groove diameter is a bit over .321 I’m thinking pretty hard about a tapered boolit as that was reportedly the projectile of choice for this rifle back when my grandfather was a youngster. I accidentally ordered one from NOE a few years back but sold it when I realized what it was.
This rifle has an original tang sight and 32” #4 octagonal barrel so I suspect it’s a shooter with the right boolit. With the current Accurate boolit it’s capable of somewhat under the 2 MOA groups I’m shooting now but I’m still working on the loose nut behind the butt. I’d like to go with a plain based design as I think velocities will be 1400 or so.
What say you, learned ones? Thanks in advance!

Mike

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The best accuracy that I get is with a Saeco 190gn bullet sized to 0.322". This is a bore riding design.

https://i.imgur.com/kAWVgGk.jpg

[bosterr]

My Great Grand Dad's Winchester Model '94 slugged at .3215. Since it has a 24 inch octagon barrel I was concerned the Accurate 32-170A wouldn't carry enough lube to make a nice lube star on the muzzle. I had Tom modify the 32-170A to lengthen the lube groove and ended up with his 32-180C. Since I didn't know what velocity it would end up with I preferred a gas check boolit and size to .3230. It feeds and shoots great. The rifle wears a 30s/40s vintage Lyman tang sight (I'd guess).

[Green Frog]

TXGunNut, there were several well known tapered bullets made for the 32-40, usually to be loaded by breech seating. Probably the most well known was the Hudson, which has a flat nose. The spire pointed design by WH French also had a following. Both had weights of about 185 grains or so and of course had to be lubed and loaded as cast. I have also shot a modified version of the Hudson bullet, with a lesser amount of taper as well as a 200 grain nearly cylindrical bullet similar to the tapered design by Harry Pope. All needed to be shot as cast and breech seated for best performance.

Froggie

[Green Frog]

Ideal mould numbers;
Hudson - 319273
French - 319323
Modified Hudson - 319289
Long cylindrical - 31952 (in 175 or 200 grain lengths)
Are the ones I referred to. I have owned all but the shorter 31952, and have shot all I have except the Hudson because of the need to modify my chamber.

Froggie

[TXGunNut]

Lots of good info. Hadn’t really considered breech seating but it would certainly be interesting. Will have to look into doing that, Froggie. What I had in mind is a tapered bullet that would have bore riding traits. What’s the diameter of the bore riding portion of that Sacco nose, BA?

Mike

[Bad Ass Wallace]

What’s the diameter of the bore riding portion of that Sacco nose, BA?

Mike
I measured several at 0.3145" and slugging the bore of my 1927 vintage '94 shows the minor diameter at 0.315".

[TXGunNut]

BA, is that Sacco mould #081?

Mike

[Green Frog]

The problem with trying to use tapered bullets in fixed rounds is what to do about the taper. If your high wall has the throat you describe, it would appear that it was adapted to be shot by breech seating. One way you can tell is to push a bullet of the proper size and taper in the chamber and push it in until it seats firmly... the base will likely be positioned about 1/16” or so ahead of the case mouth. Anything you could possibly load fixed is likely to leave an excessive amount of freebore.

Froggie

[John Boy]

TxGunNut, I had Tom at Accurate Molds clone Dr Hudson’s original Ideal 319273 tapered bullet for me ... he has it listed in his catalog

[TXGunNut]

Hmmmm...I’ve been perusing Tom’s site and his 32190D looks good.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=32-190D-D.png
The 32185H looks interesting, John.

Mike

[Bad Ass Wallace]

BA, is that Sacco mould #081?

Mike
Yes that is the one!

[TXGunNut]

Yes that is the one!
Is it gas checked? Don’t want to use a GC unless necessary. Accurate 32190D appears to be a FP version of your Saeco.

Mike

[John Boy]

The Accurate 32190D is not a tapered bullet ....

[TXGunNut]

The Accurate 32190D is not a tapered bullet ....

Correct, but it does have bore riding qualities.

Mike

[WALLNUTT]

Take a look at a Saeco 632 or 732. Both are tapered PB.

[TXGunNut]

Take a look at a Saeco 632 or 732. Both are tapered PB.

I did, thanks! Not finding much about the 732 but while researching the 632 I found some very interesting articles and I’m re-thinking my powder choice. I’m thinking the 16:1 twist of my rifle will be happier with the 632 bullet. I’m thinking the 732 would be more appropriate for the faster twists.

Mike

[John Boy]

The Accurate 32190D is not a tapered bullet ....
Correct, but it does have bore riding qualities.
So what about bore riding. Tapered bullets are designed to be breach seated in rifles that have a chamber with a longer leade designed for tapered reloads ... not as a fixed cartridge reload Only way to determine your Grandfather's chamber is to do a chamber cast and compare it to the leade specifications of a non tapered leade

[TXGunNut]

John-
Breech seating is not an option with this rifle as the chamber and leade is actually pretty tight based on my trial and error fitting observations. The “tapered” designs I’m seeing mostly have one undersized (top) band and all other bands will fit nicely in a cartridge case. I don’t know if the term is being misused or if there is more than one type of “taper”. At this point I’m leaning more towards “bore riding” but some of these “tapered” boolits have what I consider to be bore riding qualities.
I’ve checked my records and the mould I mistakenly ordered awhile back was a “stop ring” design which is apparently different from “tapered” but I’m probably wrong about that as well.

Mike

[WALLNUTT]

It is possible to use tapered bullets in fixed ammo with good results depending on the chamber/throat. Think Saeco 315 w/o gas check or Popes stop ring 308403 used in 30cal.

[BlackpowderSweden]

The best accuracy that I get is with a Saeco 190gn bullet sized to 0.322". This is a bore riding design.

https://i.imgur.com/kAWVgGk.jpg

BAW, What rifle and twist do you have in your 32-40?
Do you shoot it with Blackpowder?

[lotech]

I used the SAECO 200 grain design (that was intended for breech seating) in my Winchester Traditional Hunter .32-40. Accuracy was very good with this bullet seated in the usual manner but little of the bullet was in the case.