Paul Mauser was no John Moses Browning, but........

[WILCO]

I sure do love his rifles!

Just like with cast iron cookware, when I pick one up, my heart beats faster.
[smilie=w::bigsmyl2:[smilie=w:

[slim1836]

272727

Shame that the barrel and stock were cut down since it's all matching numbers, Argentine, made in 1900 I believe.

Slim

[Hick]

I sure do love his rifles!

Yes! Found my numbers matching 1909 Argentine Carbine in a pistol shop in Hawaii. It was very dirty and the shop owner told me he thought it was an Enfield. He shipped it to me in Nevada in a cardboard box and it arrived with the muzzle hanging out of a hole. It took all that with no damage. Love that rifle!

[Texas by God]

The hate will rain down on my head for saying this, but the Mauser 98 is a better rifle than any of Browning's designs. I love my m94 Winchester and my m8 Remington but they won't hang with the Mauser.

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[M-Tecs]

The hate will rain down on my head for saying this, but the Mauser 98 is a better rifle than any of Browning's designs. I love my m94 Winchester and my m8 Remington but they won't hang with the Mauser.

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Did Paul Mauser design anything that is still in active service like the M2?

http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/famous-gun-inventors-in-history-paul-mauser-rifles-john-browning-arms-designer/

[Rick R]

The Mausers designed fewer guns but ran an entire factory system selling guns all over the world. I’ve read the opinion that hunting guns and cartridges could have stopped development at the M-98 and 8x57mm and we would be just as well off.

John Browning was a prolific and brilliant inventor, if you haven’t seen it the Browning museum in Provo is amazing. Browning sold his designs to guys who ran factories, which left him more time to create more designs.

They were all much smarter and more devoted than people are these days.

[BNE]

The hate will rain down on my head for saying this, but the Mauser 98 is a better rifle than any of Browning's designs. I love my m94 Winchester and my m8 Remington but they won't hang with the Mauser.

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I am praying for you repentance.

[Texas by God]

M- Tecs, I apologize for not stipulating shoulder fired rifles. I have often wondered why Browning didn’t design a bolt action centerfire rifle. Or did he, and FN dismiss or Remington dismiss it?

[M-Tecs]

I am far from a Browning expert so take this with a grain of salt but it appears he skipped bolt guns and went to automatic firearms.

Just a guess but since Springfield Armory did not open the design for the Krag, 1903 or the 1914/1917 there was no motivation for Browning to work on boltgun designs since they were viewed as most a military market. It wasn't until after WWI that boltgun became popular for the sporting market.

For shoulder fired Mauser didn't have anything that equaled the BAR.

[444ttd]

The Mausers designed fewer guns but ran an entire factory system selling guns all over the world. I’ve read the opinion that hunting guns and cartridges could have stopped development at the M-98 and 8x57mm and we would be just as well off.

John Browning was a prolific and brilliant inventor, if you haven’t seen it the Browning museum in Provo is amazing. Browning sold his designs to guys who ran factories, which left him more time to create more designs.

They were all much smarter and more devoted than people are these days.


in my opinion, the 93 mauser with the 7x57 would have been a great place to stop. heck, i would have stopped after the 91 mauser with 7.65x53 argie.

[M-Tecs]

Comparing Browning to Mauser based on innovation heavily favors Browning. Browning invented numerous designs from scratch whereas Mauser improved other people's designs.

[Adam Helmer]

I sure do love his rifles!

Just like with cast iron cookware, when I pick one up, my heart beats faster.
[smilie=w::bigsmyl2:[smilie=w:



Wilco,

What is to compare? Browning was a one-of-a-kind and gave us good guns. However, it was Mauser who gave the World the Charger Clip. Such a simple device escaped Browning's design genius, eh wot?

Mauser gave us the timeless and best bolt action. Let us appreciate the genius of both men.

Be Well.

Adam

[1886nut]

Mauser didn't invent the bolt gun, he simply perfected it. Browning probably took a look at the 1893 Spanish Mauser and figured (correctly) that only minor improvements were possible. The lever action rifle was the choice of most American hunters, well into the 1950s.

[M-Tecs]

Mannlicker was using en bloc clips three years before Mauser introduced the stripper clip. I see Paul Mauser much more as highly effective industrialist more in the mold of Henry Ford than an actual inventor or designer like Browning.

Mauser started by working in an arms plant. Later like Henry Ford he had many people under him assisting with the designs. Browning's shop was small and primitive by comparison. That was my biggest surprise the first time I saw Browning's shop. Even for the day it was primitive and reflected what JMB was. A small town genius self taught gunsmith. Lots of people in Mausers place could have done what he did. Eventually something comparable to JMB designs would have been developed but not likely by a single man in isolated primitive location.

Other than the HiPower I believe the Browning designs were all his . Lots later saw changes to facilitate ease of manufacture but I see true genius in designing a long action recoil system or a drop link barrel system when none existed verse improving other people's designs as head of a vast arms facility.

Browning also didn't lose an eye and breaking a finger on a design that didn't work.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/mauser-c98-the-system-that-cost-paul-mauser-an-eye/

https://www.range365.com/story/range-life/guns-of-john-browning/

[MOC031]

Did Paul Mauser design anything that is still in active service like the M2?

Or the Lee Enfield, designed by James Paris Lee, another inventor of shoulder fired weapons. 1888'ish to current day. Assorted colonial wars in Afghanistan, Egypt, etc., the Boer War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Malysia, sniper variants used up through the Falklands War, Gulf 1, and so on. Armed the world's greatest and furthest flung empire for over well over a century. Still arms some Commonwealth/former Commonwealth countries.

The magazine capacity and speed of firing and loading at one point in one battle led the Germans (the Mauser-armed eventual losers in both matches and the warmup in the Boer War) to believe they were under fire by troops armed with automatic weapons.

I think the Canadian government just last year replaced the Canadian Rangers' No. 4's with a Tikka bolt action .308 (with a hideously garish stock in the pics I saw). In a move never seen since Trudeau The Elder became Prime Minister half a century ago, his son who is also a gun hating nut, allowed the Rangers to keep their Long Branch Lee Enfields if they so wished. Making more than a few very, very happy. And not a few who will quickly sell their rifles to collectors to make a few dollars...

[Prairie Cowboy]

If you look at many of JMB's designs, you begin to realize that in many cases he was highly over-rated.

Sure, he had a lot of winners like the 1885 Winchester, the 1911, the Hi-Power, the .30 cal. machine gun, and the BAR, to name a few.

But a lot of his guns, even though they were popular, are a mechanical PITA.

Your 1886, 1892, 1894, and 1895 Winchesters are tedious to take apart and reassemble, and make cleaning from the breech with a rod impossible otherwise.
The 1887 Winchester lever action shotgun is an absolute abortion to load or take apart.
The Model 8 and 81 Remington semi-autos are also horrible to take apart.

JMB designed a lot of guns like this in a hurry for a fast buck from the American arms companies, and they apparently could not have cared less about the consumer's headaches after the purchase.

While Mauser may have not produced as many new designs, the ones that did make it into production were masterpieces that were both easy to use and easy to take apart and reassemble. Even the USA bought a license from Mauser to produce their own thinly disguised Mauser bolt action in the form of the 1903 Springfield. A rifle that remained in service for many years.

If JMB was such a genius why didn't he produce a superior bolt action, considering that so many countries clearly wanted one?

[M-Tecs]

If JMB was such a genius why didn't he produce a superior bolt action, considering that so many countries clearly wanted one?

Most of JMB's designs were first of a kind. Once technology is developed it is easy to improve. Inventing new technologies not so much.

JMB sold his designs to Winchester exclusively during the time boltgun were being developed. Winchester didn't want one simply because Springfield Armory only used internal designs. By the time JMB parted ways with Winchester military boltgun were a thing of the past and sporting boltgun were in their infancy.

By today's standards a model T is a pile of junk yet at the time it was clearly the best cost effective option. No different than some of Browning's designs. At the other end of the spectrum the M2 is still in active service after a 100 plus years. The 1911 and the HiPower have remarkable staying power.

[Deadeye Bly]

Comparing the two is an exercise in futility. I'm damned glad both of them did what they did. How they did it was entirely different. Mauser was a manufacturer who perfected a product. Browning was an inventor who sold his designs and let others perfect them for manufacturing. Mauser's crowning achievement was the 98 Mauser rifle. Browning's crowning achievement was the 1911 pistol. Both have stood the test of time for well over 100 years and have been copied many times but never really improved.

[fixit]

One of my instructors at colorado school of trades stated that jmb never used 1 part when he could use 3.... Having looked at trying to take apart an a5, I absolutely believe that assessment!

[WILCO]

Wilco,

What is to compare? Browning was a one-of-a-kind and gave us good guns. However, it was Mauser who gave the World the Charger Clip. Such a simple device escaped Browning's design genius, eh wot?

Mauser gave us the timeless and best bolt action. Let us appreciate the genius of both men.

Be Well.

Adam

Hi Adam!
If I had a table, both men would be seated.
They live in my heart and mind.
Paul Mauser's rifles just get a tip of my hat, a little more frequently.:)

[Petrol & Powder]

The history that includes the years from roughly 1880 to about 1945 is an incredibly active time.
Focusing on the development of firearms during those times, we find one of the most active segments of the development of firearms.

The Mauser brothers weren't just designers, they were captains of industry. They lived in a time when firearms development was advancing at an incredible pace plus they lived in a part of the world that was highly industrialized. It was the perfect storm of skill, timing and opportunity.

As for John Browning verses Paul Mauser, they both made immense contributions to the world of firearms. Browning was probably more of an innovator and Mauser was more of an industry leader. While Browning had a mind geared more for designing and creating; Mauser built on existing ideas, taking them closer to perfection.

I always wondered about an alternative history in which Browning ended up collaborating with Mauser instead of FN.

[rbuck351]

I'm really fond of the 78 Browning and the 85 Winchester as well as the A5, 1911, 92 win and the M 8.
Browning designed a bunch of new guns many very well designed. He also designed a bunch of automatic firearms for the military. Mauser did a good job of modifying one gun and selling it to many different armys. Many others have modified the mauser as well. Springfield, Enfield, Mosin and most other military bolt guns are mods of mausers mod or the one he chose to modify.

[Stephen Cohen]

I often wonder where we would be had Browning not come along. Mauser brothers were great business men and recognised a brilliant firearms designer. And yes I love my Mausers. Regards Stephen

[MOC031]

Many others have modified the mauser as well. Springfield, Enfield, Mosin and most other military bolt guns are mods of mausers mod or the one he chose to modify.
I think you would have a hard time making an argument that the magazine fed Lee-Metford bolt action rifle of 1879 was just a modified Mauser design, even though it took the Brits almost another ten years to approve it replacing the Martini-Henry.

The Mauser Model 1871 was a single shot rifle; the Mauser Model 1889, developed after the Lee Metford was the rifle of the British Empire, was finally Mauser's first repeater. Perhaps the opposite is true: the Mauser's modified the Lee-Metford repeater to their design to catch up.

My guess is that both Mauser and Lee took their inspiration and more than a few ideas from the Dreyse needle gun and the chassepot.

[Gewehr-Guy]

You have to love a small ring Mauser,and I have the most elegant Mauser design ever made, a Husqvarna 146 in 9.3x57.

But, no modern designer will ever surpass Browning's legacy of timeless treasures, like the 1885, 86,and 92. Then he designs the Browning Automatic Shotgun and Rifle in 1900, then comes along his pistol designs , like the 1911, the Colt Woodsman and the Hi-Power .

Now to his most enduring design, and a favorite of mine and probably a million farmers and their kids, the 1890 pump .22 rifle. That design was made for over 120 yrs, and is a simple design, incredibly rugged, and I think just the most perfect of utility firearms. So my opinion is that Mauser was a great designer, but he wasn't a Browning.

[wyowillys46]

I think you would have a hard time making an argument that the magazine fed Lee-Metford bolt action rifle of 1879 was just a modified Mauser design, even though it took the Brits almost another ten years to approve it replacing the Martini-Henry.

The Mauser Model 1871 was a single shot rifle; the Mauser Model 1889, developed after the Lee Metford was the rifle of the British Empire, was finally Mauser's first repeater. Perhaps the opposite is true: the Mauser's modified the Lee-Metford repeater to their design to catch up.

My guess is that both Mauser and Lee took their inspiration and more than a few ideas from the Dreyse needle gun and the chassepot.

Mauser's first repeating rifle was the M71/84.

[waksupi]

I think the Mauser type action is the absolute best for a custom rifle. Both were design geniuses in their own right, as was Kalashnikov.