Is this correct?

[JohnSmiles]

I put it off and finally bought some plastic airgun pellets and some eastwood powder mirror blue powder.
Correct me if I am wrong here, as I notice there are multiple methods being used, but this is the gist of it:
Dump boolits, 'some' pellets and about a tablespoon of powder into a plastic container or tumbler and shake/tumble for a couple minutes.
Remove boolits and stand them up on a sheet of parchment paper and bake at 400 for 20 minutes.
Do a smash test to verify powder adheres to bullet.
THEN resize and apply gas check if so desired.
That about right?
Will be my first time trying PC, so any and all advice is welcome.
Especially if resizing is in the correct sequence, or if it is even an optional step.
If it matters, going to start with a bunch of boolits I have cast using the Lee C430-310-RF mold.

[CastingFool]

I haven't done any PC'ing, but I understand you bake at 400 deg for 20 minutes, after your oven cones to temp. I'm sure more experienced guys will chime in.

[dangitgriff]

Convection oven (fan) works best. Use an oven thermometer to verify 400 degrees.
Also, I believe 20 minutes is not an exact time, they can be in there up to 30.

[farmerjim]

Plastic container needs to have a 5 on it. Parchment paper works fine, so does non stick Al foil, but I now prefer the silicone baking mats. I find it easier to put the gas checks on before powder coating.
Others say the swirl is the important part of the motion, but I find that without the up and down shake, I will not get a good coat. I see people putting their powder and bullets in a tumbler for 15 to 20 minutes. I always get a good coat after 10 to 15 seconds by hand. I stand up all my short wide boolits, but I use silicone trivets with .25 in an.30 in for the 22 and the 30 cal tall boolits.
I use forceps to stand up the boolits, but as a grain inspector, I used forceps many hours nearly every day for 25 years. They are like a third hand for me. Some just dump them out after sifting the powder, and get good results.

[Conditor22]

I put it off and finally bought some plastic airgun pellets and some eastwood powder mirror blue powder.
Correct me if I am wrong here, as I notice there are multiple methods being used, but this is the gist of it:
Dump boolits, 'some' pellets and about a tablespoon of powder into a plastic container or tumbler and shake/tumble for a couple minutes.
Remove boolits and stand them up on a sheet of parchment paper and bake at 400 for 20 minutes.
Do a smash test to verify powder adheres to bullet.
THEN resize and apply gas check if so desired.
That about right?
Will be my first time trying PC, so any and all advice is welcome.
Especially if resizing is in the correct sequence, or if it is even an optional step.
If it matters, going to start with a bunch of boolits I have cast using the Lee C430-310-RF mold.

Coolwhip containers work great for bigger boolits any #5 or #2 with bb's (make sure you hold the lid tight)
Cover the bottom with ASBB's only add 1 or 2 teaspoons of powder (some powders don't need ASBB's)
start with one layer of boolits (no less than 10 boolits) in the bowl
Swirl/don't shake, you will kill the bowls and make a mess, you want to build static (some powder will cover in 10-15 seconds, open the bowl, look for good coverage.

pick up the coated boolits with tweezers (HF), bang the side of the tweezers against something hard-knocking off all the excess PC then stand up on parchment paper/nonstick foil/baking mats (I sand/file the end of my tweezer smooth/round) then dip the tip in PC before starting

IF you sift off all the BB's and PC you can use rubber gloves with the fingertips dipped in PC before starting.

make sure your oven is reaching 400° set an oven thermometer in the oven and adjust the setting until the thermometer reaches 400°

you can get away with toaster ovens but they limit you to smaller batches, convection type ovens circulate the air allowing for baking large batches.

Powdercoating companies say to bake the coating for XX minutes at XXX° AFTER (1) the powder flows or (2) the substrate reaches XXX°

I find that 25 minutes in a preheated oven meets ALL manufacturers' specifications that I have used.

don't quench before PCing it's too easy to contaminate the boolits AND you lose almost everything you gain when you bake the PC.
quenching after PC COWW will give you around 20-21 bhn.

Hammer test will show adhesion but not tell you if your coating is fully cured. IF the coating is not fully cured it could react to some smokeless powders.

I apply GC after PCing you need to see what works best for you, IF you GC before PC make sure to completely clean what your GC on to avoid contaminating the boolit.

Many of these steps can be modified slightly to better fit your needs

[JohnSmiles]

First batch kinda sucked. Baked them anyway to see the results.
Yup, they still suck. Splotchy, minimal coverage.
Added some Styrofoam strips, tumbled more boolits, doesn't appear to have improved coverage much if any.
Not gonna bother baking any until I see drastically improved adhesion.
This might be a very short lived venture if I don't get some decent results pretty shortly.

[Petander]

I shake and swirl longer / add more powder for a better coverage.

It takes some experimenting to find the right amount of powder at first.

Patience,you will get it!

I just started PC last week, I've been Hi Teking for a couple of years.

Smoke's Carolina Blue bonds impressively , even to my contaminated lead.

https://i.postimg.cc/DZd4WKPB/IMG-20201206-210141-667.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/GpDyCD80/IMG-20201206-191608.jpg

[JohnSmiles]

I shake and swirl longer / add more powder for a better coverage.

It takes some experimenting to find the right amount of powder at first.

Patience,you will get it!

I just started PC last week, I've been Hi Teking for a couple of years.

Smoke's Carolina Blue bonds impressively , even to my contaminated lead.

Yeah, mine don't look anything like that......

[charlie b]

First, what color BB's did you get. Hopefully the flat black.

Second, Eastwood has baking instructions on their package. The one I have says bake at 450F until the coating goes shiny, then 400F for 20 min.

Third, are your bullets clean? Hopefully you haven't handled them much since casting and you dumped them either on a clean towel or clean water. If they need cleaning then rinse them in some acetone.

Shaking. Right now you should be in fairly low humidity so using the proper tub and BB's and you should be ok. It does take a certain balance between the number of BB's and bullets. If I get too many bullets they don't coat as well. I also find I need more powder in the bowl than some suggest. 3 or 4 level tablespoons in a std size butter tub is about right. It seems forever, but, I shake for at least 60sec and usually for 120sec (two min). It doesn't seem like a long time but standing there shaking the tub gets old fast :) Don't forget to turn the tub upside down every now and then to keep the powder distributed.

[JohnSmiles]

First, what color BB's did you get. Hopefully the flat black.

Second, Eastwood has baking instructions on their package. The one I have says bake at 450F until the coating goes shiny, then 400F for 20 min.

Third, are your bullets clean? Hopefully you haven't handled them much since casting and you dumped them either on a clean towel or clean water. If they need cleaning then rinse them in some acetone.

Shaking. Right now you should be in fairly low humidity so using the proper tub and BB's and you should be ok. It does take a certain balance between the number of BB's and bullets. If I get too many bullets they don't coat as well. I also find I need more powder in the bowl than some suggest. 3 or 4 level tablespoons in a std size butter tub is about right. It seems forever, but, I shake for at least 60sec and usually for 120sec (two min). It doesn't seem like a long time but standing there shaking the tub gets old fast :) Don't forget to turn the tub upside down every now and then to keep the powder distributed.

I bought the white bbs and tumbled them for 15 minutes.

[Tonerboy]

Another idea to help with adhesion is to "warm" the slugs before putting them into the container. I usually just put some on the cookie sheet on top of the oven while it is preheating. They just need to warm, not hot. The rest of your steps look good. 400 deg for 20 min after the powder looks wet. Running a little long wont hurt, I have noticed with brighter colors that they will darken if "overcooked". Yellows turn mustard-ish and reds turn burgundy-ish. Don't throw in the towel, you may just need to tweek your process. Maybe shake longer, maybe humidity is too high today, wait for a lower humidity day....ect. Start with just a few bullets at a time until you get it figured out, that way your not recasting hundreds, just a dozen or so. If you want it to work irregardless of humidity and powder, ESP works every time. More equipment and a little more set up time, but fast and beautiful coating almost every time. But shake n bake is the best way to get your feet wet. Experimentation is the key with S&B.

I just noticed your color selection says MIRROR BLUE. The Mirror colors are almost a clear color. You may get better coverage with a SOLID GLOSSY color to start with. Ive seen other posts here that state they had to MULTI Coat the mirror colors to get a good looking finish. Just an observation, I haven't used any MIRROR colors myself.

[JohnSmiles]

Also what pc is on the boolits is cured, just not nearly enough powder adhered to the boolits to begin with.
Going to tumble them a second time and see what happens.

[Petander]

Can you post a pic or two?

Mine looks like this after about a minute of swirl/shake. Take a look in every 15 sec or so , add more powder if needed.

My BB:s are grey,didn't find black.

https://i.postimg.cc/fRYpF2zY/IMG-20201130-224642.jpg

[JohnSmiles]

Can you post a pic or two?

Mine looks like this after about a minute of swirl/shake. Take a look in every 15 sec or so , add more powder if needed.

My BB:s are grey, didn't find black.

I could take a pic, but it would just show what I have stated. Not enough powder sticking to the boolits.
Tumbler is well coated though.
Boolits have been in a sealed container ever since I cast them.
Dropped in clean water straight from the mold.

[AlHunt]

OK, my 2 cents. I only PC freshly cast bullets. I'm wondering if yours have been contaminated or oxidized since casting.
I've only used Smoke's powder from this site.

I used black BB's a time or two, tried it without and saw no difference. Haven't used them since.

I basically dump up to a couple hundred bullets into a container (HDPE 5), dump in an unmeasured generous amount of powder and shake in multiple directions for 60 to 90 seconds. Peek into the container and most of the time, they're well covered.

Next, I dump them all into a wire basket I made from hardware cloth that's the same size as the tray in my thrift-store toaster oven. The wire basket is on a clean piece of corrugated cardboard.

Pick up the wire basket, shake it a bit and set it into the toaster oven in the tray. Recover the powder from my cardboard and put it back into the shaker tub.

At this point the PCd bullets are in a spread out pile on the wire basket, in the oven. I crank the dial to 375F and set the timer for 20 minutes.

At the end of 20 minutes the wire basket comes out and gets dumped unceremoniously into a waiting cardboard box which I then bang on the benchtop a few times to separate 99+% of the bullets.

There will be a few stuck together and a few spots where the PC comes off due to baking to it's neighbor. Most of the times it's not on a driving band, so why do I care? Even a flake or two off a driving band is of no consequence.

I then size or size and GC.

This is what works for me. Others are not so lucky.

[JohnSmiles]

Coated much better this time. Maybe I simply didn't add enough powder the first time for 200 310 gr 44's.
We shall see. I also put the first ones back in for a second coat. They are useless otherwise.
Will take a look in the oven in 20 minutes.
Bag said 450 until it shows total flow, then another 20 minutes at 400.

[JohnSmiles]

OK, my 2 cents. I only PC freshly cast bullets. I'm wondering if yours have been contaminated or oxidized since casting.
I've only used Smoke's powder from this site.

I used black BB's a time or two, tried it without and saw no difference. Haven't used them since.

I basically dump up to a couple hundred bullets into a container (HDPE 5), dump in an unmeasured generous amount of powder and shake in multiple directions for 60 to 90 seconds. Peek into the container and most of the time, they're well covered.

Next, I dump them all into a wire basket I made from hardware cloth that's the same size as the tray in my thrift-store toaster oven. The wire basket is on a clean piece of corrugated cardboard.

Pick up the wire basket, shake it a bit and set it into the toaster oven in the tray. Recover the powder from my cardboard and put it back into the shaker tub.

At this point the PCd bullets are in a spread out pile on the wire basket, in the oven. I crank the dial to 375F and set the timer for 20 minutes.

At the end of 20 minutes the wire basket comes out and gets dumped unceremoniously into a waiting cardboard box which I then bang on the benchtop a few times to separate 99+% of the bullets.

There will be a few stuck together and a few spots where the PC comes off due to baking to it's neighbor. Most of the times it's not on a driving band, so why do I care? Even a flake or two off a driving band is of no consequence.

I then size or size and GC.

This is what works for me. Others are not so lucky.

My exact procedure:
Boolits are not oxidized or contaminated. Look like I just cast them today. Water quenched and dried, placed in a sealed container.
Added plastic bb's, and also some Styrofoam strips the second go around.
Also added more powder, as it might be as simple as not using enough powder to begin with.
A couple tablespoons might not have been enough for that many large boolits.
Stood them upright on parchment paper by hand, no gloves.
My hands are so dry no need for gloves.
Washed off my little smurf fingers.
Placed in preheated oven at 450.
Just reduced to 400 for another 20 minutes.
They look much better this time. Maybe even useable.
I will post pictures for your opinions on that.

[JohnSmiles]

272731
Not very pretty..

[AlHunt]

272731
Not very pretty..

Powders are not all the same, even from the same vendor. I have several from Smoke on this site. The blue covers extremely well. The orange not so well.

I know you're saying the bullets are clean. I just don't think they are. The pic is a little foggy but it looks like the PC is just not adhering. Maybe an acetone bath.

Were it me (aside from running out of patience, which I'm prone to do), I'd cast a few brand new bullets and try that. Next, I'd try a different powder vendor. I've read good things about Harbor Freight's red and I know Smoke's Blue and Translucent Copper are one coat wonders for me. Failing all that, I'd throw my hands up in frustration and go back to liquid Alox.

Hopefully you get it sorted out.

[AlHunt]

Have others reported good success with that particular powder and method? The powder coming off in big flakes is bothersome.

[JohnSmiles]

272732
Better picture but boolits still not so pretty.

[AlHunt]

272732
Better picture but boolits still not so pretty.

I totally agree. Is it actually flaking off? Like you could pick it off with your fingernail?

[Idz]

I have gotten similar results with large batches of 230 gr 45acp bullets and Harbor Freight red. I think too many bullets being coated causes them to knock the powder each other. I now coat without BB's and limit to about 50 or so 230 gr bullets per shake. If they don't look coated then add a bit more powder and shake some more.

[JohnSmiles]

I totally agree. Is it actually flaking off? Like you could pick it off with your fingernail?

No, it isn't flaking off.

[mehavey]

"...Dump boolits, 'some' pellets....""Some" airsoft balls is enough to effectively "mostly" cover the bullets being shaken. (BTW. Brown Airsoft for me)
You want the static-producing/powder-covered balls to be the transfer agent (which they are very good at).
"Swirl" ("swirled not shaken" :D) everything in the tuppereware container, occasionally turning upside down and "swirl" some more.quick trans

:D Very quick transfer that way, w/ minimal edge damage to even the softest of pure lead bullets.

These are Eastwood Ford Light Blue (Mirror Blue not that much different),
Using (brown) airsoft balls (themselves quickly/totally covered in powder...)
Swirled for maybe 90 secs.
Baked in a toaster oven controlled at 400/20min after everything comes back up to temp after insertion in the oven.

272747
272749

Sized after baking.

[popper]

Just load and shoot. Takes a few tries to get used to it.

[Petander]

Maybe I simply didn't add enough powder the first time for 200 310 gr 44's.

That is nine pounds of lead in the oven.

[DDriller]

The water quenching could be your problem. May pick up some contamination from the water to keep powder from sticking properly.

[daloper]

I would try some black BB. I get mine from Wally Mart. When I started I picked up some that were green and they did not coat for crap. I then bought some from Smoke and got good results with his powder.

[charlie b]

You are using a rotary tumbler or vibration type? I think the vibration types are better for PC. If it is a rotary I think it might be the problem. Try more BB's and fewer bullets. The bullets are hitting each other in the tumbler and scraping away the PC. I have had the same problem with hand shaking if I shake too hard. You are trying to do two things here, generate enough static electricity to attract the powder and distribute the powder to all the bullets.

And, yes, I think you were not using enough powder. I use 2-4 tablespoons for 50 bullets.

[725]

Wear a mask! This activity is one where a mask actually is called for, as opposed to the mindless mask wearing fashion of the day.

[AlHunt]

Well, I hope we solve this conundrum. The answer will be instructive, I think.

[bangerjim]

When we all on here started/invented this shake-n-bake method back in 2013 or so, we tired TONS of ways. Stick with what works the best: #5 cool whip container shaken VERY hard up and down for 20-30 seconds, BLACK (no other color, due to the plastic make-up) ASBB's, and a couple tablespoons of powder. I pick up with hemostats. Humidity and temp have a HUGE effect on your results.

Also I have never found a powder that would not cure at 400F in ONLY 10 minutes (after the powder turns shiny). You do not need to bake the carp out of the powder! And forget water dropping. You will gain almost no hardness at only 400F for 10-20 minutes heating. Mix your alloy for the air cooled hardness you want. And remember you do not need nearly the hardness you used to think you needed!!!! Especially with PC'ing.

Keep trying, hold your mouth just right, and watch that phase of the moon! HA.....ha! :roll: Lots of variables in shake-n-bake, that is why I went to ESPC 100% 3 years ago. Perfect coatings every time no matter the humidity or temp or phase of the moon.

And TRIPLE verify the 400F in your oven with a GOOD oven thermometer. Most cheapo ovens are off by ±40F. We totally recommend using a good quality CONVECTION oven and not a standard one. I use a $110 unit from WalMart. Huge cavity and excellent digital control.

banger :guntootsmiley:

[gnappi]

In my experience it seems like if the variables are met (bullet cleanliness and temp, humidity) and constants are met (powder known to pc, bake temp, good container and bb's) it should be a no brainer but it looks like these are not the only rules and some have difficulty.

[Conditor22]

Did you confirm the oven temperature? ( used 3 thermometers, found 2 that agreed with each other, and tossed the third)
Is it a convection type oven?
What bowl/method did you use?
How many BB's? A picture of your container bb's powder then bb's powder and boolits would help.
Unfortunately, I haven't heard of people having success with white BB's. I know Black poly pellets,

these ASBB's
https://i.imgur.com/CnEvr1n.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/cs0SmXQ.jpg

and
https://i.imgur.com/7tcS44M.jpg
work

Dropped in clean water straight from the mold. This often is the problem, it doesn’t take much contamination in the water to mess up the PC process. DON'T QUENCH BEFORE PC! PCing the boolits takes out most of what you’ve gained. I've seen/heard of many instances of quenching contaminating the boolit.

You could try cleaning the quenched boolits in some solvent, acetone, paint thinner and see if that helps.

How many boolits in what size bowl or did you just dump the whole lot in your vibrating brass cleaner?

Quenching after PCing will give you 21+BHN
https://i.imgur.com/uclR2g1.png


Mirror Blue provides a deep 95% gloss finish. Do The Job Right with Eastwood Powders!
They are suitable for any metal surface and most cure at a temperature of 400 degrees F at 20 minutes after flow out.
Color: Mirror Blue
Gloss Level: Gloss 95±5
Cure Temperature: 400 Degrees
Cure Time: 20 Minutes after flow out
Powder Type: Polyester TGIC

All the specs are great, high gloss, TGIC I haven't seen the bake time this long before BUT they are the industrial chemists and know what it takes for their powder to reach a full cure.

TOO MUCH POWDER can lessen the static build-up

[JohnSmiles]

When I cast the boolits I dropped them in a clean 5 gallon bucket of water. Not to harden them to any degree, simply because they don't get dented that way when I cast a few hundred at a time. There is no contamination on the boolits.
From the replies there is no doubt I used too little powder for the amount of boolits I started out with.
The white bb's don't hold much powder on them at all.
I used a tumbler to pc them.
I have a vibratory device I can try if that works better.
My oven is a fairly new convection oven, and the temp is actually pretty close to what it says it is.
Powder calls for 450 until good flow is observed, then 400 for 20 minutes.
GC are out, as there is no way I can put a GC on after PC'ing them. I tried a few, no go.
But my understanding is that GC's are not required for PC boolits anyway.
May try it again this weekend.

[remy3424]

If your BBs aren't covered with powder, get rid of those, they might be working against you. See Petander's pic of the BBs being covered. Not sure why the water quenching, just drop onto a clean soaked with water towel, folded for 2 or 3 layers to eliminate that as the problem. I use round containers and swirl like crazy for maybe 30 seconds. I have to assume you have Smokes powder if you did a lot of reading here prior to jumping in, so it shouldn't be the powder...keep the powder sealed and dry. Try PCing when your humidity is low for your area. Maybe try only putting 100 or so in at a time went coating them. Hope there is something in this thread to get you PCing like a champ!

[bangerjim]

I have always dropped my fresh cast into a 9x11 inch cake pan filled with swimming pool (!) water a towel in it. Not to harden but to cool them so I can inspect after a few hundred. Never had a problem with surface contamination, even using pool water with chlorine in it! ( the pool is just 15 feet away and the closest potable water facet is 90 feet away).

I would forget the tumbler/vibrator and just stick with what we have proven works.........#5 Coolwhip shaken HARD up and down for 30_40 seconds. That method worked every time for me back when I was doing shake-n-bake. I cannot under stand why people got off on the idea of using a tumbler! Shaking is good upper body exercise!!!!!!!!!

Again...........check your oven temp! Never heard of a powder that says 450 and then 400 bake! 10 minutes (after shiny) works for the several brands of powder I use. Smoke's is the best, but I even had excellent success with HF red and white early on.

Get some! He is on here. Eliminate as many variables as you can for this rather "fussy" way of coating Pb.

banger :guntootsmiley:

[Conditor22]

I cast onto 2 layers of cotton towel and scoot them into a pile as I cast leaving an open "landing field". Commercial caster drop that boolits on sheet metal.
The water really isn't needed

I used a tumbler to pc them.
I have a vibratory device I can try if that works better.

Tumbler: what tumbler and are you putting them directly into the bowl? I use plastic jars or a bucket to tumble in.

I started using a vibratory brass cleaner and putting the boolits and powder in 2 layers of zipper plastic bags.
Some put the PC and boolits in plastic bowls without BB's.

try using a cool whip container, cover the bottom with BB's add 2 teaspoons of powder and cover that with a layer of boolits. Snap on the lid and hold it during the swirling process changing the orientation of the bowl while swirling (to move the powder around)

Depending on the material of your tumbler you could be having problems with that.

I copied this of their website
Color: Mirror Blue
Gloss Level: Gloss 95±5
Cure Temperature: 400 Degrees
Cure Time: 20 Minutes after flow out
Powder Type: Polyester TGIC


It's probably something simple, we'll figure it out.

[JohnSmiles]

From the package itself:
Preheat oven to 450.
Place PC items in oven and when flowed out, reduce to 400 for 20 minutes.

[mehavey]

Preheat oven to 450....That's because the thermal mass (heat sink) of the cool bullets going in immediately sucks the oven temp down right at the start.
"Pre-Heating" at 450 -- then reducing to 400 when the bullets actually go in -- gives you a leg up on then coming back up to hit the req'd 400 for the duration.

as far as BB's go, don't skimp. Use as many necessary to "mostly" cover the bullets within the bowl
The BB's are your powder transfer mechanism and should completely cover themselves in powder ASAP
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272747&d=1607302927

If they're doing their job, hand-swirling the combo for 90sec should be more than enough

[Traffer]

Didn't read the whole thread...First failed attempts prompted me to make this comment:
I harp this over and over and over.
Humidity is the key. When the humidity is 100% it seems impossible to get adhesion...When humidity is 50% it seems impossible to screw it up. It you have to PC in humid conditions (over 90%) do it in an air conditioned environment.

[Conditor22]

traffer, several friends and I on the west coat successfully PC boolits in the garage, with the big door open when it is raining outside.

keep your powder dry and boolits clean. I worst-case scenarios pre-warm the boolits

[Conditor22]

That's because the thermal mass (heat sink) of the cool bullets going in immediately sucks the oven temp down right at the start.
"Pre-Heating" at 450 -- then reducing to 400 when the bullets actually go in -- gives you a leg up on then coming back up to hit the req'd 400 for the duration.

as far as BB's go, don't skimp. Use as many necessary to "mostly" cover the bullets within the bowl
The BB's are your powder transfer mechanism and should completely cover themselves in powder ASAP
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272747&d=1607302927

If they're doing their job, hand-swirling the combo for 90sec should be more than enough

I line the bottom of my ovens with ceramic BBQ briquettes (any heat retaining media will work) this help the over recover much faster when opened and brings the rest load of boolits up to temp faster.

I ran out on this one, testing the temperature, ended up setting it to 415° to get 400° (the first 2 are $15 thrift store convection ovens testing the temperature, ended up setting it to 415° to get 400°)

https://i.imgur.com/L9jYQck.png

https://i.imgur.com/LkeWDga.jpg

I've run thousands of pounds of boolits through this little guy

https://i.imgur.com/N4wFShk.jpg

it's now hooked up to a PID set to 200° C, other PID is for my casting pot. (state of the art cardboard deflector screen :lol:)
I pulled the bottom knob and installed a switch to turn the convection fan on and off

https://i.imgur.com/Nbxinx6.jpg

[Traffer]

traffer, several friends and I on the west coat successfully PC boolits in the garage, with the big door open when it is raining outside.

keep your powder dry and boolits clean. I worst-case scenarios pre-warm the boolits
OK here we go again...Raining does not mean 100% humidity. Just as not raining does not mean 100% humidity. Check the relative humidity...Is is 100% Probably not...Especially on the coast it can be as low as about 40% when it rains.

https://weather.thefuntimesguide.com/how_does_it_rain_when_the_humi/

[charlie b]

If using a tumbler you need a way to generate static electricity. Rotary tumblers tend to have rubber liners that will not do this. Vibratory can have grounded bowls, again not good. And the BBs are the only things generating static so you need a LOT more than when using a #5 container, besides making sure the container is not grounded.

[AlHunt]

I was doing some powder coating today and thought I'd document 1 of the cycles just to show it works for me.

This is Smoke's Translucent Copper. I didn't shake enough off so it's a little splotchy but it'll be fine.


I put the bullets in HDPE5 container with just powder, no BB's.
Shake up and down for 30 seconds.
Swirl for 30 seconds.
Repeat both up and down and swirl.
Dump it onto my wire rack.
In this case I used a knife blade and made 1 single layer.
(Usually I don't but there's a lot of surface area on these bullets.)
Bake for 20 minutes at 375F.
Turn out into a waiting box.


I just wanted to show what I do and that it works. Hopefully OP gets his problem resolved.

[a.squibload]

I heat the boolits before shaking, seems to negate the humidity problem.
Have had great results in the open garage in a thunderstorm.
Small batches, less than 100, thermal mass not a problem.
Usually stand pistol boolits on bases on non stick foil, rifle boolits go in a screen basket.
Preheat unneccesary, I go 11 or 12 minutes in a $10 thrift store toaster oven
at 400°F, have tried 375°, still works. Harbor Freight red, cheap, works fine.
Sometimes drop them in water when done baking, might help break them apart
if using basket method. Not that hard to separate in any case.

Keep at it, at one point I was about to go back to lube
but reading here and trying different things got me a method that works.
No icky sticky lube, no leading, have shot over 2000fps. Found 'em in the berm
with PC still attached.

One time all they had at HF was yellow, wasn't as good (or was it just me?) but
mixed with red I get orange and it coats fine.

(A friend forgot a batch in his toaster, not sure how long they were in but
the boolits slumped! Unusable.)

[Petander]

One time all they had at HF was yellow, wasn't as good (or was it just me?) but
mixed with red I get orange and it coats fine.




My experience with yellow/red Ripol powders as well.

I come from Hi Tek, exact measurements. So I make notes of my PC experiments,I weigh powder, pellets, bullets etc.

I find it much easier to change something when I know how it was the last time. Instead of "a spoonful and half, a handful, some pellets in a bowl etc..."

[crackers]

"Dropped in clean water straight from the mold."
Try dropping on a cookie sheet/tin - suspended just enough to flex. The bullets won't deform. The water drop has no benefit since they are going in the oven but it is a huge uncontrolled contamination risk.

[mehavey]

I just drop onto a folded plush hand-towel right beside the lead furnace.
Same (unwashed) towel now for 20 years.
Somehow no "contamination" for PC'g.

Same with double-boiling old lube off and then PC'g
No problemmo

If the OP is having problems getting powder to stick, it's either
- Bad powder (But his Eastwood Mirror Blue is one of the best)
- Bad container. Any Tupperware will do (but the generic Safeway Signature quad-lock in Post 44 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?413720-Is-this-correct&p=5052763&viewfull=1#post5052763) is exceptionally good
- Bad or insufficient Airsoft balls as static-producing transfer agent

[JohnSmiles]

Didn't read the whole thread...First failed attempts prompted me to make this comment:
I harp this over and over and over.
Humidity is the key. When the humidity is 100% it seems impossible to get adhesion...When humidity is 50% it seems impossible to screw it up. It you have to PC in humid conditions (over 90%) do it in an air conditioned environment.

Humidity is not the issue here.

[JohnSmiles]

I just drop onto a folded plush hand-towel right beside the lead furnace.
Same (unwashed) towel now for 20 years.
Somehow no "contamination" for PC'g.

Same with double-boiling old lube off and then PC'g
No problemmo

If the OP is having problems getting powder to stick, it's either
- Bad powder (But his Eastwood Mirror Blue is one of the best)
- Bad container. Any Tupperware will do (but the generic Safeway Signature quad-lock in Post 44 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?413720-Is-this-correct&p=5052763&viewfull=1#post5052763) is exceptionally good
- Bad or insufficient Airsoft balls as static-producing transfer agent

Plenty of balls. Too many boolits and not enough powder seems to be the culprit. Will find out Sunday.

[JohnSmiles]

"Dropped in clean water straight from the mold."
Try dropping on a cookie sheet/tin - suspended just enough to flex. The bullets won't deform. The water drop has no benefit since they are going in the oven but it is a huge uncontrolled contamination risk.

There is no contamination risk in clean water.

[JohnSmiles]

That's because the thermal mass (heat sink) of the cool bullets going in immediately sucks the oven temp down right at the start.
"Pre-Heating" at 450 -- then reducing to 400 when the bullets actually go in -- gives you a leg up on then coming back up to hit the req'd 400 for the duration.

as far as BB's go, don't skimp. Use as many necessary to "mostly" cover the bullets within the bowl
The BB's are your powder transfer mechanism and should completely cover themselves in powder ASAP
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=272747&d=1607302927

If they're doing their job, hand-swirling the combo for 90sec should be more than enough

The directions on the bag itself say to run at 450 UNTIL there is good flow, then reduce to 400 for 20 minutes.

[reddog81]

Too little powder can be a problem and I've never had a problem using too much powder. Contamination has never been a problem and I've tested it by leaving bullets sitting outside for a month in my chicken coop and letting them get rained on. Humidity can be problem with some powders and others are not effected by it too much.

The bullets you posted in post number 21 look perfectly fine assuming they pass the smash test.

[mehavey]

The directions on the bag itself say to run at 450 UNTIL there is good flow, then reduce to 400 for 20 minutes.True. But that is to ensure flowout gets a good start.

But I keep it simple. 400-degree set/leave it there
Once oven comes back up to temp* after bullet insertion,
set timer for 30 minutes and walk away.
:popcorn:

Several thousand perfect bullets later . . . :bigsmyl2:


Post #1
Looking back at things, however, you've hinted your problem is not so much powder cure in the oven.
Rtaher, it was getting the powders to stick/coat the bullets well before the oven.

That problem comes from either
_1. Bad powder (But Eastwood Mirror Blue is one of the absolute best)
_2. Bad container. Any Tupperware will do (but the generic Safeway Signature quad-lock in Post 44 is exceptionally good
_3. Bad or insufficient Airsoft balls as static-producing transfer agent (I suggest brown and/or black)
I recommend concentrating on #2 and #3

Post #2
What kind of thermometer/probe* are you using to gauge/control oven temp?

Post #3
I wouldn't invest in PC'g hundreds of bullets at a time until you have nailed down what works

[Petander]

Post #3
I wouldn't invest in PC'g hundreds of bullets at a time until you have nailed down what works

This is why I mentioned the overall weight of 200 310 grain bullets.

I use a 2000 watt wall convection oven and 9 lbs would be pushing it.

[charlie b]

FYI, there can be contamination in 'clean' water.

[JohnSmiles]

Too little powder can be a problem and I've never had a problem using too much powder. Contamination has never been a problem and I've tested it by leaving bullets sitting outside for a month in my chicken coop and letting them get rained on. Humidity can be problem with some powders and others are not effected by it too much.

The bullets you posted in post number 21 look perfectly fine assuming they pass the smash test.

Yes, they are quite useable I think, but not uniformly coated. I will try again tomorrow to get a better coat using more powder. I read time after time 'just a couple of tablespoons of pc', but never noticed that amount was for considerably fewer(and smaller) boolits than I started out with.

[JohnSmiles]

FYI, there can be contamination in 'clean' water.

Umm, dude, if it is contaminated, then it isn't clean is it?

[charlie b]

Not true. It can have calcium in it (hard water) which leaves deposits when it dries. That means powder does not stick to that part.

If you use softened water then it has salt in it.

Then there is other stuff if you have a well. If city water then a whole myriad of stuff can be in there.

Distilled is best. RO is probably good too (bottled water or home RO unit).

[Hossfly]

I use rain water, have collected off barn to water Orchid greenhouses. Haven’t had problem with powder not sticking. (PH) a little on the low side. Pretty clean, just a few dead mosquito larvae that went thru the pump, but overall no problems with using rain water.

Mainly water drop so can I handle boolits asap. Inspect, dry then pc, size. Load and shoot.

[JohnSmiles]

Dude, first you reply, saying to make sure it is clean water I am using to drop boolits in, then rant on about my water NOT actually being clean....?
Even after I point out I simply wasn't using enough pc for the amount of boolits I started with, and using white bb's in a tumbler, you are still arguing contaminated water.
IT AIN'T THE WATER.

First, what color BB's did you get. Hopefully the flat black.

Second, Eastwood has baking instructions on their package. The one I have says bake at 450F until the coating goes shiny, then 400F for 20 min.

Third, are your bullets clean? Hopefully you haven't handled them much since casting and you dumped them either on a clean towel or clean water. If they need cleaning then rinse them in some acetone.

Shaking. Right now you should be in fairly low humidity so using the proper tub and BB's and you should be ok. It does take a certain balance between the number of BB's and bullets. If I get too many bullets they don't coat as well. I also find I need more powder in the bowl than some suggest. 3 or 4 level tablespoons in a std size butter tub is about right. It seems forever, but, I shake for at least 60sec and usually for 120sec (two min). It doesn't seem like a long time but standing there shaking the tub gets old fast :) Don't forget to turn the tub upside down every now and then to keep the powder distributed.


FYI, there can be contamination in 'clean' water.




Not true. It can have calcium in it (hard water) which leaves deposits when it dries. That means powder does not stick to that part.

If you use softened water then it has salt in it.

Then there is other stuff if you have a well. If city water then a whole myriad of stuff can be in there.

Distilled is best. RO is probably good too (bottled water or home RO unit).
Just FYI, bottled water is probably the LEAST clean of all the above, and water softeners use salt to clean the electrodes of all the 'contaminants' they have collected FROM your water. They don't add salt to your water to soften it. Any trace amount of salt that may be on the electrodes is gone the first time you use water after the softener cycles.
Now, feel free to continue to attempt to educate me on the true meaning of 'clean' water all you wish, but pretty sure you have covered the subject and then some.
I have some CLEAN boolits to pc.

[ReloaderFred]

Let's keep this thread civil, and germane. If it goes off the rails, it will be deleted.

Fred
CB Staff

[danmat]

Maybe i got lucky, my first PC boolits were great, looked good, passed the smash test, shot good no leading.
I started by reading the sticky thread on pcing, The successful people were using proven powders such as smokes, paying att. to bake temps and times.
I ordered 3 of his colors, and BBs.
Started with a cool whip bowl,2 spoons of carolina blue powder, bbs.
Put on nitrle gloves dipped in powder, picked up and stood on tray with silicone mat.
I did not water quench for fear of contamination
I did this in my shop on theTexas gulf coast, dont know what humidity was.
Set oven at 425 by dial for 10 minutes,"did not check dropped my oven thermometer broke it", preheat.
Put tray of boolits in oven set the timer for 30 min, after 5 or 6 min. boolits were starting to shine.
Kicked the timer back to 30 min, pulled em out when it dinged.
In short, I read and did what the successful people were using and doing.
I want to thank all the people who posted in that sticky, made my first try at PCing easy.

[reddog81]

Don't worry about the water. In my experiences contamination is a myth. I've left bullets sitting outside for weeks and then PC'd with excellent results. I've left bullets sitting in my basement for months getting covered in dog hair and dust bunnies with no problems. I once accidently used a rag that was oil stained to drop bullets on and it didn't cause any issues with adhesion. If you can get the powder to stick to the bullets, they will bake fine. Getting the "perfect" coat isn't necessary. Sometimes good enough really is good enough.

[fredj338]

Humidity has a lot to do with powder sticking. I have zero issues just shaking 30sec with asbb (black or green) in a #5 container with most powders, even HF red works. I bake for 15m total time in a preheated 400deg oven. 1 heaping tsp of powder will coat about 300 9mm.
IMO, water dropping a bullet before coating & baking @ 400 for 20min negates any advantage of water dropping. Some say minerals in water can cause issues, I have no idea. I can only tell you what has worked for me, air cooled bullets. I water drop out of the baking oven though, it gives me a little bhn bump.