bulged brass

[newfie bullet]

i have been loading cast bullets in my marlin 1895 cowboy 4570, accurate mold 46-430 vg, i use lee dies and i get a bulge in my loaded rounds , at the base of the bullets, some times it is all around the case and sometimes it is more on one side. sized bullets is .459, is it the dies is sizing the cases too small for the bullets or is it the seating stem not the right shape for nose of bullets, or is it a little of both?
Would the RCBS cowboy dies help cure this problem?
Newfie

[Winger Ed.]

If it happens on seating- Sounds like your sizing die is shrinking the case down too much.
Try adjusting it up some.

It the bulge appears after you crimp, you're crimping too much.

I've found on a couple of straight wall cases, its hard to totally avoid, especially with carbide ring dies.
If they chamber and shoot OK, I just accept it.

[country gent]

.459 is in the ball park for bullet dia a lot go all the way up to .462 with no problems. A quick test would be to try and hand seat a bullet into a fired unsized case.to check that its expanded big enough. Another question is how deep you are seating these bullets? Are you getting down into the internal taper? What dies are you using?

Does the bulge restrict chambering or is it just there? Im guessing that its the sizing die sizing a little small and possibly the expanding die not expanding back up deep enough for the bullet. A lot of dies size small to make all thicknesses of brass work and rely on the expander to set neck tension.

[newfie bullet]

.459 is in the ball park for bullet dia a lot go all the way up to .462 with no problems. A quick test would be to try and hand seat a bullet into a fired unsized case.to check that its expanded big enough. Another question is how deep you are seating these bullets? Are you getting down into the internal taper? What dies are you using?

Does the bulge restrict chambering or is it just there? Im guessing that its the sizing die sizing a little small and possibly the expanding die not expanding back up deep enough for the bullet. A lot of dies size small to make all thicknesses of brass work and rely on the expander to set neck tension.

i am using the lee die set, chambering is fine just the loaded rounds don't look right bulges on one side usually , and i use a forster co-ax press

[yovinny]

I fixed the same issue by buying hornady dies instead...and Im using a rockchucker thats outlived Methuselah...

[gumbo333]

I use Lee 45\70 dies and with .459 cast boolits it does have a slight bulge where the boolit sets in the case. Even when I don't completely fully resize the case you can see the outline of the boolit in the case and slightly feel it with your finger. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing with boolits from 275 gr up to 405 gr. Find the right recipe for your barrel\ boolit\ powder combination,. They shoot very well in my Henry.

[farmbif]

I have same problem with off center bullet bulge, for me its most noticeable in 375 win, boolits lube sized to .377. ive tried several different methods to get bulge centered including using several different expanders, lee, Lyman powder through as well as "M" die. over thew years I have gotten all 4 brands of die sets trying to get it straighten out., RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, thinking the sliding sleeve bullet seater would help and lee dies. ive tried a few different presses. it doesn't matter the brand of brass in 375 win there are only two, Winchester and new starline,.
I've learned to live with it, they chamber and shoot ok, and 375 win can never achieve accuracy of a inherently accurate round like 243 win, 270 win 6.5 creed moor , etc.
its just one of those things that for me I wanted to get perfect looking reloads and tried everything I could think of investing lots of time and $$ into it.
but for me the straight wall rifle calibers like 375 win, 444 marlin are among my favorites

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use Lee dies for my 45-70's along with a Lyman 'M' die, using .460 boolits and .458 jacketed I get no bulging. I think the Lee neck expander does not extend into the case and provide the same bullet alignment as the 'M' die. I also do not 'full-length' size the cases, sizing only that part of the case that holds the bullet. The sizing die is about a 1/2" from the shellholder. This works for an early Marlin 1895, a recent Marlin 1895 Cowboy and a McGowen barreled Siamese Mauser. Getting the 'alignment' step that the 'M' die provides keeps things straighter. I do use the Lee Factory Crimp, but have also used an old set of Herter's dies with the roll crimp without issue. The Lyman or NOE 'M' style expanders make a difference for the 45-70, 444, and 375 Win.

[dverna]

If there is a bulge, and I get it with some cases/bullets, it should be uniform. My gut tells me cartridges with an off centered bulge will not shoot accurately. Something is out of alignment.

One thing to try is to place a large magnet or piece of steel on your shell holder and seat a bullet slowly so the case head can slide around a bit to self center the cartridge. If the bulge goes away you have a press ram or shell holder that is out of alignment. Try a different shell holder as that is an easy fix.

To check the die is tougher. What I would do is seat the bullet 1/4 of the way down, lower the ram and turn the cartridge 1/4 turn and seat another 1/4 way down, repeat as necessary to see if that affects the bulge. If it does, the die is suspect.

Good luck!!!

[country gent]

If I remember correctly ( this usually gets me into trouble) the Lee is more a bell type tool than an expander. I think it only enters the case about 3/16"-1/4" from the mouth. This leaves most of the case at as sized dia. and is probably giving you the fine bulge.

A new stem for the die could be turned up with a stem around 1/2" long gradual radius to and bottom with a good polish probably need to be in the 457-.4575 dia range. I would start out at .458-.4585 maybe even .459 and test to see what works best. You can always go smaller going bigger is darned hard. Unless your using a powder measure on the die the hole isnt needed either. The radius on top and bottom helps to center the plug in the case, but if the walls arnt uniform then all bets are off as the inside and outside arnt concentric.

When I make a new plug I make it long with an undercut between body and stem a nice leade in radius and a small exit radius or belling section as needed.

I use several sets of the cowboy dies and they do work well and have the longer expanders but are a bit more expensive than the lees. 2 sets of my cowboy dies had expanders undersized for my needs also.

Now heres the real thing If your rounds shoot good dont have feeding or extraction issues perform well and decent case life How much do you want to go thru to remove a purely visual defect?

[Wally]

I have a Marlin 1895 .45-70. When sizing brass the cases are sized too much as the chamber in the Marlin is "generous". I used a steel rod and taped sandpaper to it to spin in a drill to "open up" the Lyman sizer die so it would not size down the cases as much. It worked quite well. One needs to polish out the die with 600 grit sandpaper afterwards. I did try to resize cases partially with the sizer die. As I have a C & H TC die, I found that the partially sized cases woudl not fit into it properly. So I had to modify the sizing die. In the 1895 I have yet to get a neck split, but I have had body splits..all caused by cases sized too much, which happened before I modified the sizer die.

[EDG]

Your FL die is squeezing the case down too much. You need a larger FL die or you need to lap out your existing die.

[Walks]

Find an old set of Lyman dies from the 1960's.
Never had a good experience using Lee dies. Just my experience.

[uscra112]

A cast bullet should be no more than a drag fit into the case. If you're seeing bulges, you need to expand that neck with a Lyman M die before you go any farther. Crowding that soft lead bullet into an undersize neck is sizing it down, which will likely lead to poor accuracy and leading. Getting it cockeyed at the same time will make matters worse. It's a poor seating die that lets that happen.

Lee's "universal expander" is not an expander at all; it just bells the case. It is possible, with a little lathe work, to turn that tapered plug into a true expander like the M die.

Buffalo Arms, by the way, has alternative mandrels for the M-die, if Lyman's standard offerings aren't right. Or you can make your own on a lathe as I do.

Ideally, you should be sizing fired brass with an interchangeable bushing type die. Works the brass less, and lengthens the interval between annealings.

[FredBuddy]

Recently, Wacksupi had a thread that detailed the
use of the RCBS 45/70 cowboy dies that all but
eliminates this issue. I have also used the NOE
expanders which lessen the resistance during
seating making the boolit go in straighter (e.g. 30/30).

[uscra112]

Recently, Wacksupi had a thread that detailed the
use of the RCBS 45/70 cowboy dies that all but
eliminates this issue. I have also used the NOE
expanders which lessen the resistance during
seating making the boolit go in straighter (e.g. 30/30).

a HA! You don't need a lathe after all! Good find, there.

And at those prices, I can quit making 'em myself.

Thanks for sharing.

[toot]

I have a 6.5 JAP. after I shoot it with NORMA, WINCHESTER,ETC, ammo the cases all seem to have a slight bulge down around the web / in front if the rim. is this normal with this weapon? I have 3 of them and all have the same bulge. it goes away when I full legenth resize them.

[44magLeo]

toot,
The 6.5 Jap and a lot of other cartridges from other countries often spec slightly larger in case diameter than similar cases made in this country.
Here they often start with a similar case and final form it to the new case. This often leaves the case head a bit small and it will bulge a bit just ahed of the case head. Cheaper than getting new form dies to make the larger cases.
Most European case manufactures already have the larger form dies, so they get them closer to the right sizer.
I find that some European made brass for my 7mm Mauser has the extractor groove cut differently than US made brass. On some I have to use a 6.5 Swede shell holder.
In your case your 6.5 Jap may just have a larger chamber than it should be. Making a chamber cast you can get the chamber measurements easily. Then compare this to the Spec the cartridge should have,
Mil spec rifles and ammo are often a bit loose. This helps prevent jams in battle conditions. They don't care much if the cases get a bulge, as long as it functions reliably.
Even with the bulge as long as you keep loads within pressure specs you should be fine. Just watch for cases that show signs of failure.
Leo

[uscra112]

I seem to recall that in the first decade or so after the war it was common for Bubba to run a .257 Roberts reamer into his bring-back Arisaka, since there wasn't any proper 6.5 Jap in the market. The .257 base diameter is larger than the Arisaka round. Worth checking that out, just in case.

[toot]

toot,
The 6.5 Jap and a lot of other cartridges from other countries often spec slightly larger in case diameter than similar cases made in this country.
Here they often start with a similar case and final form it to the new case. This often leaves the case head a bit small and it will bulge a bit just ahed of the case head. Cheaper than getting new form dies to make the larger cases.
Most European case manufactures already have the larger form dies, so they get them closer to the right sizer.
I find that some European made brass for my 7mm Mauser has the extractor groove cut differently than US made brass. On some I have to use a 6.5 Swede shell holder.
In your case your 6.5 Jap may just have a larger chamber than it should be. Making a chamber cast you can get the chamber measurements easily. Then compare this to the Spec the cartridge should have,
Mil spec rifles and ammo are often a bit loose. This helps prevent jams in battle conditions. They don't care much if the cases get a bulge, as long as it functions reliably.
Even with the bulge as long as you keep loads within pressure specs you should be fine. Just watch for cases that show signs of failure.
Leo

thank you for the info. that you supplied me on the bulge, on my JAP. case's. makes sense.

[toot]

I seem to recall that in the first decade or so after the war it was common for Bubba to run a .257 Roberts reamer into his bring-back Arisaka, since there wasn't any proper 6.5 Jap in the market. The .257 base diameter is larger than the Arisaka round. Worth checking that out, just in case.

I also have a BUBBA'D JAP, that has been converted to 257,ROBERTS, and is a fine deer gun. I over look that a veteran did it too his trophy after the war! but it was his and he wanted to shoot it.

[BK7saum]

When I loaded for 4570, I sized only enough of the case to bring it back below bullet diameter. back off your sizing die. The 4570 case is tapered. You really don't need to fully size it unless shooting Roger #1 loads repeatedly.