Designing an ultra light deer rifle (in my mind )

[RU shooter]

It's been kinda slow at work so I've had time for my mind to wander more than usual . Lately in my head I've been trying to design the most compact and lightweight bolt action short range deer rifle I can . It will never be built unless I find a jar full of gold coins in the back yard but just dreaming , I already have a model 600 in 35 Rem so the new one has to trump it in weight if that's possible . What I've come up with is using a mini Mauser action . There's one chambered in 22-250 so that's the base . 18-20" light weight barrel chambered in 35 IHMSA short enough to fit that action and power close to 358 win . Composite stock and a lightweight base/ring /scope set up . Besides going with custom titanium action and or a carbon fiber wrapped barrel can anyone think of a more compact and light way to build this dream rifle ?

Tim

[dverna]

A "dream" rifle that beats you up will be a nightmare.

The 7.62x39 is already offered in the mini- Mauser and is more than adequate for deer if using jacketed bullets. I suppose you could rebore and rechamber to 9x39 if you wanted to shoot cast.

[RKJ]

The 7.62 x 39 is so Vanilla though, :) plus it's nice to daydream about a one of a kind rifle.

[Shawlerbrook]

The Kimber Hunter @ 5.5# fits the bill. A Remington Model Seven would also work.

[Winger Ed.]

The 600 is hard to beat.
However; since you already have it,
Ya might branch off for something different like a Browning BLR Lightweight in 6.5 Creedmoor or even .243.

[DougGuy]

Short range, I'd suggest the 350 Legend. I think that's short enough, I could be wrong but a 35 caliber bore in a sporter barrel is a lot lighter than a lot of the bottleneck calibers, carries more weight boolit for boolit, and is perfectly suited to taking deer, elk, bear, whatever.

[richhodg66]

One of the Ruger American Ranch rifles is pretty close. For woods ranges, just about any centerfire caliber works fine.

[wv109323]

Look at the New Ultra-lite rifles. Thin barrels, light actions and composite stocks. Calibers?

[akajun]

Rem model 7, have the bolt spiral fluted and the bolt handle skeletonized. Aluminum rail and rings, carbon fiber barrel or spiral fluted steel barrel, McMillan stock with lightweight fill.
Or the easy button is a kimber mountian elite.

[jsizemore]

Look at the New Ultra-lite rifles. Thin barrels, light actions and composite stocks. Calibers?

I had a friend I used to travel with that used an Ultra Light Arms for silhouette. He could use a high end 2 lb scope and still easily be under hunter rifle weight. His unscoped rifle weighed under 5 lbs.

[BJK]

A SBR removes a lot of weight and size. Get it chambered in a cartridge that gets the most out of a short barrel, probably a .32/20, .30 carbine*, 300BLK or a big pistol cartridge, and in an action that has no length, like an Encore or some such. I don't know of a carbon stock for Encore, but with enough $ anything can be made. No scope, just a red dot. It would carry like a dream and handle very fast. A rifle such as that would be ideal for the deep woods I hunt, but maybe not so much for you. When I still hunt the shots are pretty much 25 yards maximum as the deer rub the sleepers out of their eyes. I carry my firearm a lot and fire it little and when I do fire it for keeps I never hear it or feel the recoil, range shooting is different.

In a semi-auto still with the SBR, or arm braced handgun, but chambered in 300BLK using either supersonic or subsonic loads. Still with the red dot. Such a firearm would be larger and heavier than the above but not terribly so. But either the single shot or semi can be suppressed and still not be overly large or heavy, esp' if an over the barrel can is used. With a 10" barrel and an over the barrel can the barrel length can still be only 14".

*In .32/20 reloads for modern guns can safely reach 2000ish fps with a 125gr bullet, same for the other .30s listed. Plenty for close range medium game.

[downzero]

My Rossi 20" Model 92 is barely over 5 pounds. A 16" one is under 5 pounds. Your choice of 357 or 44 mag or 45 Colt. Any one of them would slam a deer to the ground with a cast bullet. I bet I could get a 300 grain bullet over 1500 fps out of a 45 Colt one if I had it (mine is a 357 Mag). That will penetrate probably two whole deer from stem to stern and keep going.

A contender single shot rifle might be lighter. Emphasis on might. It'd give you the choice of whatever cartridge you wanted if you must have a high velocity cartridge or something. But I doubt that's necessary even for midwestern deer.

I am sure it seems exciting to reinvent the wheel. But the reality is there's already a $600 rifle on the market that does exactly what you're suggesting.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

Maybe rebarrel the Mini Mauser to .250 Savage. The bolt face is already right. The magazine might not need alteration. .250 Savage is a dandy deer round.

[megasupermagnum]

If lightweight and short range are the name of the game, why would you be looking at bolt actions?

[jsizemore]

Being sensible isn't always what we do.

[SweetMk]

Lets see,, lighter than a Model 600,, check :shock:

chambered in 35 Remington,,, check :bigsmyl2:

Heck, Tim, you even supplied the boolits for this one!!,,, CHECKMATE! [smilie=p:

https://i.imgur.com/PqmklLv.jpg

[dangitgriff]

.460 S&W for me if it has to be a pistol...

[Lloyd Smale]

back when i was working and had all kinds of extra money i thought on a mini Mauser in 6mm/223. What i wanted was a pencil thin light barrel and a full stock. I was into the full stocked guns then. Had 3 rugers and 2 sako's.

[Thundarstick]

I've already got two of them! First a Howa mini in 6.5 Grendel with the pencil barrel, the second is a Thompson Center Encore in 500 S&W mag. That second one is like getting hit with a Baseball bat every time it's touched off!

[Shawlerbrook]

How about my JES Marlin 30AS 356 Winchester Trapper ?
272605

[RU shooter]

If lightweight and short range are the name of the game, why would you be looking at bolt actions?

Welllllllll because I like bolt actions and this is a dream it up rifle I chose a 35 cal again because I like that size hole in things I shoot . I went with that mini Mauser action becasues I thought it might be lighter and shorter than a model 7 or 600 and in the 35 IHMSA it's short enough to fit in that action but more bang than a 35 Rem .

[Lloyd Smale]

I've already got two of them! First a Howa mini in 6.5 Grendel with the pencil barrel, the second is a Thompson Center Encore in 500 S&W mag. That second one is like getting hit with a Baseball bat every time it's touched off!

I even have a t shirt that says ask me about my grendel. I couldnt think of a better super light gun then one of those mini mausers in 6.5.

[Petrol & Powder]

Since this is an entirely hypothetical exercise, let me see if I can understand what the OP is dreaming about.

An ultra-lightweight bolt action rifle, equipped with optics, chambered for a short cartridge?

A short, skinny profile barrel will be required. I think the OP set out 18"-20" in his post. I'm not sure any exotic design such as a carbon fiber wrapped barrel would ultimately save enough weight to be worth it. I think just a thin contour stainless barrel will get you where you need to be. It will only be good for 2-3 shots before the heating of the barrel effects the zero, but that's plenty if we're talking about a hunting rifle.
The stock is the next place to save weight. Clearly needs to be synthetic, probably hollow or foam filled, that may be the place for carbon fiber? Aluminum bedding blocks and titanium screws will be needed. Sling swivels will need to be very lightweight. Titanium will probably be the choice there as well and maybe even something molded into the stock to save hardware weight and complexity.
Trigger guard, trigger, safety, follower, etc. will all need to be aluminum, titanium, plastic,....whatever. I'm not sure if a blind magazine or a floor plate would be lighter in the overall configuration.
The action will need to be as small as possible for the caliber. If a conventional style action is used, stainless steel may be your best bet. In that strength/weight compromise it is often better to go with a stronger material and just use as little as possible. Sort of like the landing gear on a plane; everything else may be aluminum but the strength of steel allows you to make it lighter than if a weaker material was used.
If however, the action utilizes a bolt that locks directly to a barrel extension, the receiver can be very lightweight. However the tradeoff will be a heavier barrel.
The bolt itself can be lightweight as long as the locking lugs and bolt head are strong. Again, steel might be your best bet and simply skeletonize as much of the bolt as possible without giving up strength.

There are some real savings to be had in the scope and mounts. The scope should probably be a fixed power, I'm going to say in the 4X territory. The mounts should be two piece bases with the lightest rings possible.
How about Conetrol rings and bases? May be one of best compromises between strength and weight? I'm not sure.
Weaver style may allow more aluminum to be used but you might loss the weight savings with the extra bulk needed? I'm not sure.

The sling will need to be synthetic and very minimal. Maybe even custom fit and sewn to the swivels to avoid hardware?

For the OP, that's an interesting hypothetical rifle. You must look at the total package and decide which combinations result in the best overall outcome.

Or you could just buy a Remington Model 7 :wink:

[kenton]

Seems to me a Ruger 44/77 would be the perfect fit for your ideal rifle.
https://www.ruger.com/products/77Series7744/specSheets/7402.html

Or a 357/77 if you are married to a 35 caliber hole
https://www.ruger.com/products/77Series77357/specSheets/7419.html

The 44 is listed at 5.2lbs and the 357 is listed 5.5lbs

[godzilla]

Browning BLR in 358 Winchester sounds like it would fit the bill. Sounds like all you need is an old Mauser action and a cheap barrel and you are in business!

[osteodoc08]

Define short range.

Under 50 yards——-Try a handgun with iron sights
Under 100 yards——-Try a pistol caliber lever gun with iron sights or scope
Under 150 yards——-1894 in 30/30 35 REM with iron sights or scope
Under 400 yards———Kimber Adirondack in 308 or 7mm/08

[MT Gianni]

Where are you hunting? How many miles do you have to pack this gun? Are you on extended days with only what you are carrying? What is your furthest expected shot? A friend has backpacked with a 18" encore in 6.5 Creedmoor, and enjoys the ability to take it down when packing in and out. He used if for an 15 mile pack in sheep hunt with a 300+ yard shot.

If you're just going 1/2 a mile to a tree stand for a 150 yard shot, I believe you're better served with a rifle that points and hold easier. In a 35 caliber that is going to be fairly heavy.

[bdicki]

First gen Remington 700ti 5.5 pounds for this 30-06 and 5.25 pounds for my 308.
https://i.imgur.com/OlvJZjw.jpg

[GregLaROCHE]

I wouldn’t feel comfortable hunting white tail deer, especially a big buck, with anything less than a .243 with 100 grain bullet.

[RU shooter]

First gen Remington 700ti 5.5 pounds for this 30-06 and 5.25 pounds for my 308.
https://i.imgur.com/OlvJZjw.jpg
I remember those when they first came out , they were way outa my budget anyways , that's the first one ever seen though . They ever make a model 7 in the Ti ?

[bdicki]

I remember those when they first came out , they were way outa my budget anyways , that's the first one ever seen though . They ever make a model 7 in the Ti ?

No model 7 but a short action 700 in 308 and all the others based on that brass.

[Texas by God]

I always thought that an 40XBBR action combined with a slender stock and slender 22" barrel in 7mm-08 would be perfect for a lightweight hunting rifle. Just toss the shell in and close the bolt.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Lloyd Smale]

Since this is an entirely hypothetical exercise, let me see if I can understand what the OP is dreaming about.

An ultra-lightweight bolt action rifle, equipped with optics, chambered for a short cartridge?

A short, skinny profile barrel will be required. I think the OP set out 18"-20" in his post. I'm not sure any exotic design such as a carbon fiber wrapped barrel would ultimately save enough weight to be worth it. I think just a thin contour stainless barrel will get you where you need to be. It will only be good for 2-3 shots before the heating of the barrel effects the zero, but that's plenty if we're talking about a hunting rifle.
The stock is the next place to save weight. Clearly needs to be synthetic, probably hollow or foam filled, that may be the place for carbon fiber? Aluminum bedding blocks and titanium screws will be needed. Sling swivels will need to be very lightweight. Titanium will probably be the choice there as well and maybe even something molded into the stock to save hardware weight and complexity.
Trigger guard, trigger, safety, follower, etc. will all need to be aluminum, titanium, plastic,....whatever. I'm not sure if a blind magazine or a floor plate would be lighter in the overall configuration.
The action will need to be as small as possible for the caliber. If a conventional style action is used, stainless steel may be your best bet. In that strength/weight compromise it is often better to go with a stronger material and just use as little as possible. Sort of like the landing gear on a plane; everything else may be aluminum but the strength of steel allows you to make it lighter than if a weaker material was used.
If however, the action utilizes a bolt that locks directly to a barrel extension, the receiver can be very lightweight. However the tradeoff will be a heavier barrel.
The bolt itself can be lightweight as long as the locking lugs and bolt head are strong. Again, steel might be your best bet and simply skeletonize as much of the bolt as possible without giving up strength.

There are some real savings to be had in the scope and mounts. The scope should probably be a fixed power, I'm going to say in the 4X territory. The mounts should be two piece bases with the lightest rings possible.
How about Conetrol rings and bases? May be one of best compromises between strength and weight? I'm not sure.
Weaver style may allow more aluminum to be used but you might loss the weight savings with the extra bulk needed? I'm not sure.

The sling will need to be synthetic and very minimal. Maybe even custom fit and sewn to the swivels to avoid hardware?

For the OP, that's an interesting hypothetical rifle. You must look at the total package and decide which combinations result in the best overall outcome.

Or you could just buy a Remington Model 7 :wink:

my kimber montana is a featherweight 308 with a 22 inch barrel and the only high tech is the kevlar stock. they did it by paring down all the metal that didnt need to be there. Never weighted it but id dare say with its 2x7 leupold its goes around 6lbs. Problem with light factory guns is there expensive. Guy could pick up one of those mini mausers in 6.5 grendel for around 500 bucks. Dont know what a montana goes for but mine was 1200 bucks years ago. Most here dont have the money to buy guns like that or the rem ti's. Matter of fact i dont myself being retired now. Another good compromise is my model 7 stainless 308. Its not as light as the kimber but is closer to the financial reality of us here. The ruger ultra lite and winchesters old light weight carbines are too. But i consider them all lightweight guns not Ultral light weight guns.

[Lloyd Smale]

Browning BLR in 358 Winchester sounds like it would fit the bill. Sounds like all you need is an old Mauser action and a cheap barrel and you are in business!

dads blr 308 is a handy rifle but its no lightweight. I doubt it weights less then most 22 inch bolt guns.

[skeet1]

I put together .257 Roberts on a 98 Mauser action that was the best deer rifle i ever had. Wish i had it back.

[10x]

Since this is an entirely hypothetical exercise, let me see if I can understand what the OP is dreaming about.

An ultra-lightweight bolt action rifle, equipped with optics, chambered for a short cartridge?

A short, skinny profile barrel will be required. I think the OP set out 18"-20" in his post. I'm not sure any exotic design such as a carbon fiber wrapped barrel would ultimately save enough weight to be worth it. I think just a thin contour stainless barrel will get you where you need to be. It will only be good for 2-3 shots before the heating of the barrel effects the zero, but that's plenty if we're talking about a hunting rifle.
The stock is the next place to save weight. Clearly needs to be synthetic, probably hollow or foam filled, that may be the place for carbon fiber? Aluminum bedding blocks and titanium screws will be needed. Sling swivels will need to be very lightweight. Titanium will probably be the choice there as well and maybe even something molded into the stock to save hardware weight and complexity.
Trigger guard, trigger, safety, follower, etc. will all need to be aluminum, titanium, plastic,....whatever. I'm not sure if a blind magazine or a floor plate would be lighter in the overall configuration.
The action will need to be as small as possible for the caliber. If a conventional style action is used, stainless steel may be your best bet. In that strength/weight compromise it is often better to go with a stronger material and just use as little as possible. Sort of like the landing gear on a plane; everything else may be aluminum but the strength of steel allows you to make it lighter than if a weaker material was used.
If however, the action utilizes a bolt that locks directly to a barrel extension, the receiver can be very lightweight. However the tradeoff will be a heavier barrel.
The bolt itself can be lightweight as long as the locking lugs and bolt head are strong. Again, steel might be your best bet and simply skeletonize as much of the bolt as possible without giving up strength.

There are some real savings to be had in the scope and mounts. The scope should probably be a fixed power, I'm going to say in the 4X territory. The mounts should be two piece bases with the lightest rings possible.
How about Conetrol rings and bases? May be one of best compromises between strength and weight? I'm not sure.
Weaver style may allow more aluminum to be used but you might loss the weight savings with the extra bulk needed? I'm not sure.

The sling will need to be synthetic and very minimal. Maybe even custom fit and sewn to the swivels to avoid hardware?

For the OP, that's an interesting hypothetical rifle. You must look at the total package and decide which combinations result in the best overall outcome.

Or you could just buy a Remington Model 7 :wink:

Funny thing,
I have two remington model 7 stocked for youth. in 7mm/08
One wood, one composite.
139 grain bullets do the job on every thing but grizzly

[RU shooter]

Yeah I also had a Stainless 7 composite when they first came out . Nice to carry mine was 308 and just couldn't get that thing to shoot under 2 " at 100 yds even with only 3 shots in a group sent it down the road . That's about the only Rem rifle I've owned that wouldn't shoot well out of the box

[Lloyd Smale]

Yeah I also had a Stainless 7 composite when they first came out . Nice to carry mine was 308 and just couldn't get that thing to shoot under 2 " at 100 yds even with only 3 shots in a group sent it down the road . That's about the only Rem rifle I've owned that wouldn't shoot well out of the box

my 308 stainless wasnt a tack driver either but it was easier to find decent loads for then the kimber was. Id call it an honest 1.5 inch gun. The kimber on the other hand is a one trick pony. Only thing that shoots 1.5 in it is 4895 and a 130 speer hp. I probably tried 30 bullets from 125-165 in it with at least a half a dozen different powders and that was the only load that even shot 1.5 inch at a 100. rest of them were over 2. I sold the model 10 and kept the kimber because it was so light and the cool factor of it being a kimber but often wonder if i made the right choice.

[bpatterson84]

Well, sounds like we like the same kind of rifles. One is kinda made already, the Barrett Fieldcraft, but not offered in midbore calibers. So a custom I’d like to build would be a 5digit stainless model 70 classic action, McMillan Edge stock, and an 18” barrel in either 338-06, 358win or 35 whelen. Top it with a light Swarovski scope and it’d be about perfect and quite handy.

[rbuck351]

Rem short action in 358Win, 16" thin barrel, cheap plastic stock gutted as much as possible with no recoil pad or sling and a peep and post. Should weigh in under 5 lbs.
Or just get a TC contender in 30/30 with iron sights and a thin 16" barrel. For short range, sights and extreme accuracy shouldn't be a problem.

[10x]

Yeah I also had a Stainless 7 composite when they first came out . Nice to carry mine was 308 and just couldn't get that thing to shoot under 2 " at 100 yds even with only 3 shots in a group sent it down the road . That's about the only Rem rifle I've owned that wouldn't shoot well out of the box

I have bought a number of "used" Remington rifles that did not "Shoot well" In most cases it was a simple bedding problem built in from the factory. Usually high spot on the stock touching the barrel in an inappropriate place.
That included a 30/06 stainless with a composite stock. Every one of them became incredibly accurate after a few minutes of relieving the barrel channel. Why they left the factory this way? Who knows but a barely fired Model 7 for $250 that went from an over 5" wandering group to under 0.75" with factory ammo after dressing down the barrel channel seems to be a very good deal to me.

[Petrol & Powder]

This is one of the challenges that make engineers pull their hair out and drink gallons of coffee.

In a straight forward attempt to reduce weight, you consider using lighter materials. That in turn, often results is making the part bigger because the lighter material is weaker. Sometimes it becomes advantageous to simply use the stronger material because it can be made smaller. Even though the stronger material may be heavier, if the part is small, the weight savings may still exist or the difference in weight may be so small that it's not worth the effort.
And of course there's the cost aspect.

BUT, we not done there ! We're not building a single part, we're building a system made up of many interconnected parts. So our goal cannot be to simply reduce weight; the entire device must work. And there's a life expectancy that has to be met.

Can we build a centerfire, bolt action rifle that weighs 3 pounds? Probably, but you can only shoot it one time !
Or we can design a 3 pound rifle that has a service life of 1000 rounds but it will cost $200,000 per rifle.......

Exotic materials and brilliant design will bump up against harsh reality at some point.

It is, however, A fun hypothetical exercise :-D

[jonp]

Ultra Light comes it at 5lbs if you have $3,000+ burning a hole in your pocket

[jonp]

I have bought a number of "used" Remington rifles that did not "Shoot well" In most cases it was a simple bedding problem built in from the factory. Usually high spot on the stock touching the barrel in an inappropriate place.
That included a 30/06 stainless with a composite stock. Every one of them became incredibly accurate after a few minutes of relieving the barrel channel. Why they left the factory this way? Who knows but a barely fired Model 7 for $250 that went from an over 5" wandering group to under 0.75" with factory ammo after dressing down the barrel channel seems to be a very good deal to me.

Reminds me of a rifle I bought of a guy that had a "bent barrel" so it wouldn't shoot straight for $50. Unless you pry up stumps or fall off a cliff with one it's most likely operator error. I replaced the front sight which was out of whack for some reason and it did pretty good. A Remington 788.

[jsizemore]

Ultra Light comes it at 5lbs if you have $3,000+ burning a hole in your pocket

I asked my neighbor what it took to race in the '67 Orange Bowl Regatta. He said " Bring a pocket full of money." After a lifetime of chasing dreams, I got to say he was right!

[rbuck351]

For short range, a TC contender in 30/30 with a short barrel and iron sights should weigh under 5 lbs and for a whole lot less than $3000. Short range to me means you don't need a scope or a second round or a magnum round.